Skepticism

[Nacho]

I don't think that a "real believer" can really accept that the others might be right, since "real belief" is basically, believe upon all the rest.

If believing means "Believe in me, but respect the others", then I might agree, but for belivers, the thing has allways been "Believe in me, full stop".

[Andail]

Can God create so difficult an adventuregame he can't solve it without using a walkthrough?

Anyhow, I think the anti-religious movement has become bizarrely hot-headed lately.

Terrorism and oppression and inquisitions aren't the results of religion; they occur for other reasons but act in its name.

[SSH]

Well, of course, not every religion has an evangelical imperative (i.e. feels they need to convert others). Judaism, Hinduism, Sikhism, for example. They accept converts but do not actively proselytize (except for a few tiny unofficial minorities within the religion).

I don't get the the whole idea of not telling your kids about your faith. Here's my reasoning.

1. I believe that Christianity is true
2. I believe that its the only sure way to eternal life
3. I don't want my kids to die
4. But, wait, I won't tell my kids what I believe is true, so I'll just let them die... NOT.

Andail: oh no, you've created a linguistic paradox, I've seen then the light and am now an atheist.

Because religion is still "oficial" in many sides of the world. The day that finishes, I will give a shit about what people does or does not indoors.

So as long as one tiny country might exist in the world with a state religion, you will be belligerent to every religion in every country? That seems... disproportionate.

[Nacho]

If you are right, your kids will live forever. If you do not, then it doesn't matter what they believed when they were alive after dying, they will be dead, and nothing else that dead.

So, let' s believe, a sure way to win!

It' s one of the main reasons why people belive, yes...

[Matti]

I don't get the the whole idea of not telling your kids about your faith. Here's my reasoning.

Of course you should tell your children about your faith. But e.g telling them to go to church on every sunday is something terrible in my eyes. And frightening them by saying that god gets angry if they don't (or something like that) is even worse. I guess you're not doing that but a lot of people do I'm afraid.

1. I believe that Christianity is true
2. I believe that its the only sure way to eternal life
3. I don't want my kids to die
4. But, wait, I won't tell my kids what I believe is true, so I'll just let them die... NOT.

You should let your children decide if they're afraid of death by not being christian when they're old enough to decide for themselves. I don't like the idea of raising children in a religious way.

[Nacho]

Or telling them "I believe them in a complete irrational way. There are no evidences suporting my beliefs and I might be wrong".

But none, of almost none of religious parents say that to their children.

[Ghost]

And that's religion. Telling that the ones who do not believe are wrong, but with no support.

No, it's not, though I can see how you can end up with a line like that, so no worries here.

Religion is a complex thing, and it is mostly based on being told simple lies so that, in the END, you can come up with a view on the topic that is your own. When you're a kid you can believe the bible, literally, because it really is a bit like a fairy tale. Later, also in school, you're usually encouraged to learn stuff that is totally contradictionary- like evolution. And here, one thing often leads to the other- you see contradictions, you start to think, and ou see that the lie is not exactly a lie, but just a truth told in a much too simple way. Did Jesus really live? Well, I think he did. Was he the son of God? Quite possibly not, but nevertheless a wise man. And, most importantly, a man, meaning human.
I am not a religious man but I value some parts of the bible for being thoughtful and obviously included to give us some guidelines how to behave socially. And that, at least in my book, is religion- a set of rules that make our society possible. I know you can easily argue with my point of view, but since you plaster yours all over the place, well, I thought I'd do so too.

Edit:
This (thread) has obviously jumped the shark, nuked the fridge and has become troll food.

[SSH]

It' s one of the main reasons why people belive, yes...

For someone so keen on people having evidence to back up your assertions you make a lot of statements with no evidence. Where is your evidence for this statement, please? I don't accept "Everyone I know" anecdotes here, by the way.

Of course you should tell your children about your faith. But e.g telling them to go to church on every sunday is something terrible in my eyes.

My kids LIKE to go to church. We have a great church. I quite understand that some of you may find this harder to believe than the idea of a god, but some churches do exist that are fun for kids!

You should let your children decide if they're afraid of death by not being christian when they're old enough to decide for themselves. I don't like the idea of raising children in a religious way.

Well, I'm sorry, but I'm not going to deny my beliefs just to make you feel better. However, they have already looked at what other religions believe, so they're not ignorant of other religions and belief systems. I'm not trying to keep them in the dark.

And Nacho, there IS evidence (evidence, not proof), its just that you don't like it and dismiss it. That doesn't stop it being evidence. Have you ever attended a court? No evidence is 100% reliable: people's memories, documents, etc. can all be corrupted but these are quite rightly used to convict people of crimes. Why do you hold religion to a much higher standard?

[Nacho]

Show me that evidences.

One different to "I believe it and I know it's true", please.

[SSH]

Show me that evidences.

One different to "I believe it and I know it's true", please.

I asked for your evidence for you assertion first. Stop avoiding answering the difficult questions that people put to you.

But here's a taster: my personal experience of God, many other's personal experiences of God. Miracles. Healings. The Bible.

[Nacho]

My evidences about my statement that people believes because it's a "jocker" they can use in the unlikely case that life after life exist are:

My personal experience about believers, many other's personal experiences about believers, because they have told to me, because there is no rational reason to believe in it other than that, that the Bible is full of lies and nothing on it shows it has been inspired by something else than man.

[SSH]

If you're just going to mock my response rather than give a proper answer then why bother?

In what way is "the Bible is full of lies" evidence rather than an assertion? I'm not sure how that is evidence that any believers only believe as a back-up. And are you saying that a believer told you that he only believed for that reason? Would this be one of the believers that you yourself said wasn't really a believer but went to church because of the conventions in Spain?

[Nacho]

So, your "evidences" work, and when I reply exactly the same, on the other side don't?

Mmmm... I thought this was about being respectful... Apparently RELIGION does not accept what it asks the others to accept. It' s not respectfull.

And yes, that "the bible is full of lies" is an evidence. It' s full of things that are impossible from the point of view of physics. Want me to start?

[SSH]

Yes, it' s an evidence. It' s full of things that are impossible from the point of view of physics.

But how is that evidence for people's motivation to believe, which is the statement you made that I'm asking you to provide evidence for?

It' s one of the main reasons why people belive, yes...

For someone so keen on people having evidence to back up your assertions you make a lot of statements with no evidence. Where is your evidence for this statement, please? I don't accept "Everyone I know" anecdotes here, by the way.

[Nacho]

What I ask, is, that I am told to accept someone' s beliefs even if he ask not further evidence than "They are mine", they must accept my beliefs of not believing. Since the original belief is "You must believe in God, and the ones who do not are wrong" that's a believe that I can't accept.

EDIT: Oh, you don' t accept my "anecdotes" te believe me when I say that a lot of people believe because "it is easy" but I must accept your "anecdotes" when you tell me that "God is real"? How is that?

[SSH]

If you are right, your kids will live forever. If you do not, then it doesn't matter what they believed when they were alive after dying, they will be dead, and nothing else that dead.

So, let' s believe, a sure way to win!

It' s one of the main reasons why people belive, yes...

Please answer the question I've asked 3 times already and provide some, any, evidence for the last sentence you posted that I quote above. Anecdotes would prove that SOME SPANISH people believe for that reason, which hardly qualifies as a "main reason" out of over a billion Christians worldwide.

[Nacho]

My personal experience tells me that many believers believe just because of that. It doesn't work for you? Perfect. Your personal religious experiences do not work for me, either.

[SSH]

My personal experience tells me that many believers believe just because of that.

So you're saying that you've had a few Spanish friends tell you that that's the reason they believe? And that you're extrapolating from that to over a billion Christians worldwide?

[Nacho]

Thanks. Your point is clear.

You want me to accept your beliefs giving me the same level of evidences you would consider insufficient if coming from me.

THAT, is RELIGION.

[SSH]

You want me to accept your beliefs giving me the same level of evidences you would consider insufficient if coming from me.

No, I'm saying that I've had a personal experience of God. That is evidence there is a God in the same way that one persons's testimony in court is evidence. You may not believe it but it is still evidence. It is not evidence that MANY people have had an experience of God but then I am not claiming that. 

You are claiming that a few experiences of believers describing motivation (which you seem VERY reluctant to confirm so you probably made it up anyway) extrapolates to applying to the whole world across diverse cultures. Your supposed experiences ARE evidence that there are people who believe for that reason, but then I wasn't disputing that.

You really should study about logic and debate because you spend your time knocking down strawmen, avoiding answering questions and completely missing the point.