Smoking ban UK

[Nikolas]

Smokers aren't necessarily idiots, but you have to admit that starting smoking is a bit of a stupid thing to do?

So is tons of other stuff... For example speeding, driving drunk, drugs, eat junk food (most of which can lead to death, and much much sooner than smoking, plus the death of others as well).

I guess, we're all (EDIT:not necessarily though)  idiots

Darth: Don't assume everybody's as strong as you, who quit smoking. Why would someone be forced to be completely uncomfortuable, when (s)he is an addict actually?

(And just to remind people, no, I don't smoke. My wife did and fortunately she quit when pregnant to our first son. THAT smoking I don't miss. Having the person you love smell SO bad, and having her waking up to have the first smoke in minutes, is nothing but... ugly)

[Darth Mandarb]

Am I allowed to feel (slightly) offended that you somehow feel equating smoking to being dumb is valid?

You are certainly entitled to be offended.

However, smoking is a dumb thing to do.  I really don't think anybody with a brain-stem would deny that?  No person on the planet looks "cool" when smoking.  It doesn't help your health or those around you.  It gives you bad breath, makes your hair/clothes stink, stains your finger nails, causes early aging in your skin, yellows your teeth, damages your lungs and to top it ALL off it contains addictive substances that make you crave more and more of them and ignore the above consequences.

So yeah ... you are dumb if you smoke.  Sure, you might have "smarts" in other things but have a lack of common sense which I would equate to being dumb.

I was "dumb" for a long time.  I smoked for many years until I realized how stupid/moronic it is and I simply quit.

Darth: Don't assume everybody's as strong as you, who quit smoking. Why would someone be forced to be completely uncomfortuable, when (s)he is an addict actually?

Meh ... I see what you're saying.  I just don't agree.  It segways into another problem I see in the world today.  Everybody making excuses for their inability to do what they should.  Will power is a dying concept.  "Addiction" is a buzz-word that people use to rationalize lack of will power.  If you know something is bad for you, quit doing it.  Don't make excuses, don't whine, just quit.

[Nikolas]

Meh ... I see what you're saying.  I just don't agree.  It segways into another problem I see in the world today.  Everybody making excuses for their inability to do what they should.  Will power is a dying concept.  "Addiction" is a buzz-word that people use to rationalize lack of will power.  If you know something is bad for you, quit doing it.  Don't make excuses, don't whine, just quit.

So you actually think that there isn't a chemical addiction in smoking (and drugs, and alcohol)?

[Darth Mandarb]

So you actually think that there isn't a chemical addiction in smoking (and drugs, and alcohol)?

... and to top it ALL off it contains addictive substances that make you crave more and more of them and ignore the above consequences.

Chemical addiction or not ... if you know it's something you shouldn't be doing, you should stop doing it.  Chemical, mental, physical, or whatever type of "addiction" excuse people want to use doesn't change the fact that you're doing something dumb.

Yes, eating too much chocolate can be bad for you, but if you exercise regularly you can work off the effects of eating the chocolate.

Yes, driving a car too fast can be bad for you, but if you pay attention it's no more deadly/dangerous than driving the speed limit.

Smoking?  There's nothing good that comes from it and no way to balance out the ill effects.  It's stupid.

[voh]

So yeah ... you are dumb if you smoke.  Sure, you might have "smarts" in other things but have a lack of common sense which I would equate to being dumb.

So I'm dumb and I lack common sense. Huh.

Smokers choose to accept the risk because they, for whatever reason they prefer, enjoy a cigarette. That's what it's like for me. I know it's bad for my health, and I know it's not the biggest chick magnet there might be, but I accept that and light up another cigarette.

Car exhaust is bad for your health. Eating a lot of sugar strips the glazing off of your teeth. Eating junk food increases the chance of becoming obese, which is one of the major causes of heart failure. Drinking alcohol kills off brain cells, which don't grow back.

I hardly ever drink, I eat sensibly and I exercise.

But based on one bad habit you're saying I lack common sense?

The difference between what you're saying and real life is that it's not such an easily peggable situation. Smokers smoke because they want to - they know of the risks. A lack of common sense can be attributed to smokers who continue to argue that smoking doesn't pose a health risk - because they're dumbtards.

But I think it's hardly fair to call somebody dumb simply due to a bad habit.

Smoking?  There's nothing good that comes from it and no way to balance out the ill effects.  It's stupid.

In my case, there actually is. Smoking is one of the few things which can calm me down if I have a panic attack, or if I get a bad case of ADHD (which is more often than I'd like to admit).

[Darth Mandarb]

I hardly drink.

I eat well and healthy.

I get a fair amount of exercise.

I like jumping in front of moving trains.

Wouldn't that one [deadly] thing seem to indicate a lack of common sense on my part?

The difference between what you're saying and real life is that it's not such an easily peggable situation. Smokers smoke because they want to - they know of the risks. A lack of common sense can be attributed to smokers who continue to argue that smoking doesn't pose a health risk - because they're dumbtards.

I would completely disagree with that.

Knowing something is bad, and doing it anyway is, to my way of thinking, a lack of common sense. (ie: dumb)

Smokers that continue to argue that smoking doesn't post a health risk are simply ignorant "dumbtards".

You can rationalize it anyway you want.  I don't dislike you because you smoke (I don't dislike you at all).  As you said, it's your choice but it is still a dumb thing to do.

[MrColossal]

I used to be all "ARGH! Smokers! What's the deal?!" and then I saw stand up from Bill Maher [sadly I had a life lesson learned from a damned comedian...] and he said "Not everyone wants to live forever." and I realized that he was right. He went on to say that grown ups want to have fun and they known the consequences of their actions. Every once and I while I feel myself slipping back into old Eric and I think to myself "Not everyone wants to live forever."

As far as this ban is concerned, maybe if people keep banning legal recreational drugs in public it will help spark an actual debate on the legality of one drug over another?

[Timosity]

Here in Aus, smoking is also banned in pubs [actually it is now in NSW not sure about all the other states], has been banned for years in all other indoor places of business and restaurants.

In pubs for the last few years, each year they've made the smoking sections smaller, and it was known that from July '07 it was going to be totally banned years in advance, giving the venues time to create outdoor beer gardens etc.

Most pubs smoking section was in the same room as the poker/slot machines, The more interesting thing about the no smoking, will be how it will effect the gambling, most people who sit at a machine and gamble constantly, also smoke, and wont want to have to leave their machine and go outside for a smoke. I'm wondering if these people will quit smoking, or get someone to look after their machine for 5 mins. I'm sure the gambling companies will be a bit pissed off, or probably just create all weather machines that can sit out in the beer garden.

My local wont change much, the only difference will be no smoking in the pokies room, which was closed off and well ventilated previously so the rest of the pub wont really change. I've always gone outside for a smoke at pubs and at home anyway, the thing that is the worst in a smoky room for me is getting sore eyes.

I agree it is pretty stupid to smoke, will power can help you quit if you want, I've quit other drugs (illegal & prescribed) and that was tough enough (ie few days of physical pain and illness + 3 months to start feeling normal again [the prescribed being the tougher]) nicotine and caffeine are still left for me to quit at some stage, I guess you just have to be in the right frame of mind to be able to use will power correctly (cause yes, will power is just imaginary, but the power of the mind can be strong)

smoking is stupid, yes, but it doesn't effect your intellect.

Banning Alcohol would probably do so much more for the world, I enjoy having a few beers, and never been an alcoholic, but I wish it was as easy to quit smoking as it is for me to go without alcohol.

[Andail]

Smoking has been banned in Swedish pubs and similar for 1 1/2 years now or so, and although the debate was fierce before it actually kicked in, people immediately got used to it and accepted it.
I'm only really bothered by smoke if there's lots of it in a small space. Outdoors I can even go for a cigarette myself, and I don't blame people who smoke as long as they don't exhale in the faces of other people.
We all do things that are bad for us (except for those creepy health gurus who are hellbent on living until they are a hundred and ten) and it hasn't got much to do with intelligence.

Also, a lot of clubs around here smelled badly of body odours after the ban, but then some understood the benefits of air circulation and various chemical inventions, so now some dance floors even have this nice scent of lemon or firtree or whatever.

[Nacho]

"I don' t mind smoke as long as they don' t exhale in the faces of the people"

That' s a common sentence told by the smokers. It has a problem... smoke doesn' t just annoy us (US=non smokers) When is exhaled in our face. Smoke "pursuits" us like if it had rational intelligence and sticks in our clothes and our hair.

It' s true, make the test. Put 10 people in a circle, 9 of them smokers, one non smoker, and make one of the people to light on one. Smoke will move to cause maximun annoy.

Now, let' s talk seriously. I am not going to enter in health issues. Everybody can do what they want with his body. My complain is about the annoy smoke provoques. Smoke is really annoying for the non smoker for two reasons: a) Our smelling sense is better b)We are less used to it than smokers, ergo, we are more molested for it than smokers are.

And the worst of it, it' s not necessary to enter in a Pub which receives you with a hit of "fog" in the face to end with that sticky smell in your skin/hair/clothes. You can notice it if a single person is smoking in the other side of a 5X5 room.

Extremelly inteligent people smoke. Smokers are not (at least for smoking) stupids. But smoking is a bad decission. The problem is that smoking is not like drinking too much of sniffing coque sometimes. Smoking is a vicious that moves out of the body of the person who has the vicious and annoys a person who has choosen not to suffer it.

I wouldn' t even mind if a person or two in every pub smoke. I would stand that mild aroma in my clothes. Tobacco smells quite good when it' s a real/non-treated plant, and not too bad if comes in little doses after adding the artificial ingredients it has when coming in cigarrette shape. The problem is that not one or two people smoke. The problem is that "lighting one cigarette" is allowed, the people react as a mass and many many people smokes. You can' t put a line. The pitty is that even non regular smokers become smokers in weekend and 50% of the people can be smoking inside of a small/non ventilated pub.

Result: I haven' t gone outside in weekends for 5 years, just because it makes me feel sick (literally), and filthy. I needed to take a shower after going outside (normally at a nasty hour, awaking my parents) and it made me breath weird the next day in the morning, and all that after choosing the "no smoking" path when I had the oportunity to decide. It' s a bit unfair, to be honest.

Smoking outside would be a little sacrifice for an individual, and it would help a lot to improve the conditions in pubs, for everybody. Here the situation is so bad that even smokers can' t be in pubs for a long time, because the air is un-breathable, the eyes scratch and they cough.

So... remember. Smoking is a right you have. You can do it in open places, because in that way you want annoy anyone who hasn't chosen having smoke in their lives. If you smoke in closed spaces, you are trespassing the result of your vicious to someone who hasn' t chosen to have smoke in their live. It' s not like drink too much, it' s more like puking in someone' s trousers. You don' t need to take the decission of smoking outside bacause of your health, because of the law of because of the penalty. You can choose to smoke outside because you can probably helping a friend to spend a more pleasent time.

[Phemar]

Hey I always wondered this, and sorry it might be a bit off-topic, but can some of you smokers tell me how many cigarettes you need to smoke before you get addicted?

A good friend of mine recently started, she's not yet addicted though, but I worry for her as she has got a bit of an addictive personality. I think she's just doing it to try and fit in...

Thanks.

[Hudders]

A good friend of mine recently started, she's not yet addicted though

She's probably already addicted. She just hasn't realised yet.

[Nikolas]

Yes, driving a car too fast can be bad for you, but if you pay attention it's no more deadly/dangerous than driving the speed limit.

Ahem... This is a tad ignorant, I find...

Plain facts (taken from lovely Brittish telly ): hit someone at 30 mph (miles per hour) and they have 80% chance they'll live. Hit them at 40 and they have 80% chance they'll die. Now, I won't go chassing proof that the above facts are indeed real, but they do seem reasonable enough, even if not at the 30 or 40 limit, but different numbers, or... faster, slower.

Assume you're doing 70 mph on a motorway (note: miles uk same as miles us?). You need around 120 meters in order to stop. Doing 80 mph you need 200. Do the math.

Speeding is bullshit in all cases. And yet I've not seen 1 person to not do it!

voh: Of course smoking calms you. I calm myself by bitting my fingernails (nice example compaired to smoking but I'm obsessed with it, so I guess it's a bad habbit of mine). I bet that you can find something else to calm you instead of smoking...

But basically what eric says is true 100%: Not everyone wants to live forever and lead a totally healthy life. Heck I love fat! It might kill me later on, but I still can't resist pure fat!

I just don't see the point in 100% banning. As I wanted to post and didn't due to lack of time, a bar is a bar and a pub is a pub. Smoking IS a social behaviour, like it or not. Killing the sociality of it... don't know... Yeah it's bad, yeah 2nd hand smoke is worst, yeah smoke goes around not only to the way that the smoker blows, yet: When people come to my place and want to smoke (Greece, not UK), even with 2 kids, I don't send them off the house. I just open the window, and am sure that they won't smoke a dozen, but 1-2. I try to respect their decision, or whatever else we want to call it. In the end, having 2 ciggarets in the house 3 times a year, is definately not bad for your health. Ask anybody. (Of course I don't mean having people twice a week and turning the house into the smoking refuge).

Smokers are left optionless (apart from going out). I just can't stop compairing it to... drinking. We assume that after 21 a person is mature enough to control their drinking? Bull! how many people die of drinking, and car crashed because of alcohol etc? why not bad alcohol all together? Cause in both cases (smoking, and drinking) I see innocent people dying. What's the difference. In both cases I might get either hit by a car, or by cancer later on in life.

I wonder what else will happen in the future. Which things will start to get banned. (yes a bit paranoid, but hey this is AGS, might make a good adventure game for the future, where everything is like a hospital and life is pretty much banned from any kind of fun!... hmm... done before huh? )

[earlwood]

Arguing about the health risks of cigarettes seems irrelevant considering the crux of this thread is about smoking bans in establishments that typically sell alcohol. 
As a smoker, I do not feel as though it's my "right" to smoke wherever I want, I simply feel as though the choice should be left up the business owner or proprietor, they do have the right to chose whether or not they wish to be in the company of smokers.

[voh]

Hey I always wondered this, and sorry it might be a bit off-topic, but can some of you smokers tell me how many cigarettes you need to smoke before you get addicted?

A good friend of mine recently started, she's not yet addicted though, but I worry for her as she has got a bit of an addictive personality. I think she's just doing it to try and fit in...

Well, unless she's smoking one per two weeks or month it's fair to say that yeah, she's on the road to addiction fast, or already on it. I started with a cig from time to time, "quit" for a couple of years (quotation marks because I don't feel I was addicted at that time) and returned to it smoking a pack a week, now that's definitely when I can guarantee I was addicted, as it became two packs a week, then 3, then 4, then one a day.

I'm a considerate smoker, by the way. I don't smoke in restaurants, I always ask my non-smoking friends if it's okay to smoke (and thankfully I've got the kind of friends who'll tell me no if they feel it isn't) and whenever I feel that it might be inconveniencing to somebody else I move outside.

Not so in pubs, however, but that's because until the ban becomes effective in the Netherlands, I still see it as a part of going to one. Even when I didn't smoke it was fine with me, because sure, I'll smell of smoke and need to shower and wash my clothes, but after a sweaty night in a busy pub, I'll have had someone spill beer over me, so the clothing needs a good washing anyway.

I support the smoking ban, because yeah, smoking's bad. We (the smokers) don't have the right to push that upon others, but I still think it's ignorant to call smokers dumb.

[Nacho]

I think nobody has said that smokers are dumb. Smoking is a bad decission. I should had my driving license when I was 18, but I didn' t. I took a bad decission. Am I dumb? No. Well... maybe, but not JUST because of the driving license issue.

And, again, some of you (smokers) go on telling "Smoking is unhealthy, we know, but don' t go in that direction. Non smokers do unhealthy things as well". Well... I never talked about health. I just can' t care for your health if you, the main interested, don' t. It is just the smoke which annoys me. I could even stand the smell while people smokes, but it is sticky and lasts for DAYS.

[SSH]

Simple physics dictates that there is more energy to dissipate in a crash the faster you go, in proportion to the SQUARE of your speed. So for every 1.4x increase in speed, you double the damage done in an accident.

[Darth Mandarb]

Yes, driving a car too fast can be bad for you, but if you pay attention it's no more deadly/dangerous than driving the speed limit.

Ahem... This is a tad ignorant, I find...

Why is that ignorant?  When I was a kid, the speed limit on most major U.S. highways was 55 mph.  Now it's 70mph (I've seen some places where it's 80mph). Speeding is just a concept.  The speed limit will continue to increase as time goes on.  People aren't better able to be hit by a car now than they were 20 years ago.  Do I go flying through a school-zone at 50mph?  Of course not, and those that do are idiots.  Do I go 80mph on the highway?  Hell yeah.  But I can guarantee you that the majority of accidents on U.S. highways are caused by morons going 45mph while talking on their cellphones.  Not the guy like me going 10 over the speed limit.  The problem is, when asked what caused the accident the moron who was talking on his cellphone not paying attention and going too slow will, of course, blame it on somebody/thing else rather than admit his own fault.

I'm a considerate smoker, by the way. I don't smoke in restaurants, I always ask my non-smoking friends if it's okay to smoke (and thankfully I've got the kind of friends who'll tell me no if they feel it isn't) and whenever I feel that it might be inconveniencing to somebody else I move outside.

My favorite kind of smoker.  Sadly, the rarest kind it would seem.

I support the smoking ban, because yeah, smoking's bad. We (the smokers) don't have the right to push that upon others, but I still think it's ignorant to call smokers dumb.

Perhaps I should clarify.  If a rocket scientist smoked, I would consider him/her dumb.  It's not ignorant.  I'm not saying they know nothing.  But they are doing a dumb thing, thus I consider them dumb.  I should further clarify that I am dumb.

A good friend of mine recently started, she's not yet addicted though, but I worry for her as she has got a bit of an addictive personality. I think she's just doing it to try and fit in...

I love the mentality "I smoke to fit in" ... now that is totally ignorant.  Tell your friend straight up that smoking to fit in is rediculous.  Tell her over and over that she looks stupid when she smokes.  Putting your health at risk simply to "fit in" is just the kind of bullshit mentality the breeds further stupid behavior.

I used to be all "ARGH! Smokers! What's the deal?!" and then I saw stand up from Bill Maher [sadly I had a life lesson learned from a damned comedian...] and he said "Not everyone wants to live forever." and I realized that he was right. He went on to say that grown ups want to have fun and they known the consequences of their actions. Every once and I while I feel myself slipping back into old Eric and I think to myself "Not everyone wants to live forever."

I get the point of what he said ... but it's a silly way of saying it.  Nobody, whether they want to or not, will live forever.  So you don't want to stick around for 20 more years?  Fine, pollute your lungs.  If you're that stupid, that's your choice.  However, do it in cramped and uncomfortable "zones" so those of us that don't want your cancer don't have it forced on us.

I think nobody has said that smokers are dumb.

I did

[Misj']

Smokers smoke because they want to - they know of the risks

What's the effect of nicotine on the human body?
(without looking it up on the internet )

[Hudders]

Smokers smoke because they want to - they know of the risks

What's the effect of nicotine on the human body?
(without looking it up on the internet )

It's not the nicotine that'll get you. It's the tar and the other crap that's in there.