So what makes a good RPG in your opinion?

[Icey]

I feel like I might of asked this before but a new fresh topic never hurts especially to get ideas from new members. Now everyone has there opinion on things when it comes to the Pros and the Cons of things. Even though I place a lot good portion of my time into studying RPG's, I do not limit myself to only Final Fantasy. Instead I watch and play other games to see the interesting features it has and the elements not only of game play but story itself has. But I won't just play or watch RPG's but try something else out like Tomb Raider, GTA, or even Halo. These's a bunch of other games out there that could give one some tips and tricks when making not just a RPG but a good game.

I was wondering what do you guys think makes a RPG good/or bad. Also it doesn't have to be an RPG but I wanna see what others think cause one thing that's good when making something is to remember that your not the only one who'll be playing it but a bunch of other people as well who also think differently and like different stuff. You can't satisfy the world but if you can attempt to make a lot people happy with what you created then that means you did a good job

[miguel]

Junctions

[Khris]

Also lots of DLC.

In all seriousness though, you are already aware that everybody is expecting something different from a "good RPG", and you barely listen to advice anyway. We have also been telling you for a few years now what's wrong with your older "games".
This thread sounds an awful lot like "hey forum, I'm still here, acknowledge me", probably because nobody replies in the icey games thread anymore.
Also, yes, I'm a dick as usual.

Now go make your game, you have already gotten all the input you're ever going to need.

[Icey]

I mean I just wanted to see what others was thinking and I didn't post this in my thread cause well, I just think it goes there cause in a sense it's rather "off-topic".

Also trust me I'm attention seeking, when you have a facebook of...I can't say his name cause I don't wanna blow my cover. But some a 1,597 friends and counting then I tell you kind sir if I wanted attention then I would just go there and "wreck-it"

But with that said, I'm go and return to my palace, it's...to hot out here.

[Slasher]

Well if your were to ask PS or 360 players and the like I expect they would tell you what 'They' liked and what made a particular game great in terms of RPG for 'Them'.

So, with AGS in hand, you try to replicate what you saw on your friends 360. Neat tricks, stunts, amazing weaponry and stuff, brilliant graphics, moves to die for..... How do /  would you handle it? Could you pull it off with AGS enough for people to go 'WOW'... If only one could get that response that would be totally AAA...

I think its all personal preferences and it's a case of: quote 'Please some people all of the time....' unquote

If you want to make say a Tombraider, go ahead and blow your mind trying to script it, I'll download the Tombraider Level editor, it's easier

So, what makes a good RPG... ask your PS, 360, AGS gamer friends, preferably when they are playing and in a zombie state 

[Scavenger]

Okay, so I've been thinking about this a lot, and really there is only one piece of advice that I'd want to give regarding RPGs.

Why are you using this particular mechanic for the game?

In particular, the battle system and everything in it. The battle system has to serve the greater narrative of the game. You can't just throw things in and expect the game to be a fun, cohesive experience. The battle system has to serve the greater themes, as well. Copying mechanics from other games will only get you so far.

What does the mechanic say about the story? What sort of story are you telling?

For instance:

In FF5, everyone has the same potential for being great, based on the memories of those that have come before them. Is this what you want?

In Planescape: Torment, every character is weighed down with their own torments, and only through dialogue with them can you unlock their true potential. Is this what you want?

In FF8, everyone is a useless lump of mindless flesh who can't even drink a bottle of water during a fight without a guardian force. Is this what you want?

In Albion, some species have different equipment than the human characters, and can equip them in different ways. Is this what you want?

An RPG is not just walking around and having a battle. The battle system is, at best, another mechanic for telling a story. A lack of battles might, in some scenarios, heighten the tension. It is, in fact, just a tool you can use to further your goals. You could have an entire RPG that does not have one single battle. You could have an RPG where the main characters lose something every time they battle. It all depends on what you want to do with it.

Just remember that every mechanic you use is a tool. Don't throw hammers when a screwdriver would be preferable.

[Ghost]

It's also important not to confuse Role-Playing Games with Computer Role-Playing Games (and Japanese Computer Role-Playing Games). They are very different.

From an actual RPG I expect a competent and flexible "Dungeon Master", a bunch of friends, lots of carbonated beverages and a fun time where I can play the role I made up for myself. That's where the term comes from, that's what actual role-playing is, and that's what no computer game can give you. Pen-and-paper RPGs are the ideal, flexible, living world that still somehow rotates around me. In a good campain I can interact with a fantasy world in a meaningful or silly way, whatever takes my fancy, and my friends will help me shape that world and create a game-flow that no video game ever could create.

Computer RPGs come in many different flavours, most of them favouring combat/magic mechanics because they are easy to compute and, hey, players love to kill stuff to find better gear, right?
And games that focus on combat are pretty straightforward; you set a goal, put many monsters in between, and let the player have some fun slaying them. That is not role-playing in the true sense of the word; even with different classes I merely get a set of skills that others do not have. I still fight. Skilltress and the like add a bit of custimization but still, these are not true RPGs. I can see the point though, there are classes and I pick one I like, and that is my role. But a role should be more than being "tank"/"healer" etc.
A role isn't just skills (as Dragon Age manages to prove very well).
Other games (Torment, as mentioned by Scavenger) go a different route and create an intriguing plot and a fascinating world to explore, with decisions to make that really have an impact. The downside is that, in order to make that impact, the characters will have to be more defined and give less room for me, as the player, to PLAY MY ROLE. The Nameless One happens to be a really cool badass and his story is amazing, but it is a predefined character.

JCRPS, in my eye, totally overspecialise. They are ALL about combat mechanics; story is there but usually in the form of non-interactive cutscenes. Sprinkled with fights. So I have predefined characters, very little way of develop them individually, and the story is just something that happens when I am not swinging an oversized sword.

In my eye many games that are clearly NOT CRPGs deliver great role-playing experiences. Thief was such a game. It put all the role-playing into the architecture. A thief is a classic fantasy RPG character, the little we learned about this special thief Garret was nothing but a bit of backdrop, and the game gave me a world and some skills... and I could really only survive if I played like a thief, sneaking, sniping, stealing. I was allowed to NOT act like a thief and maybe I was lucky, but the game made a role attractive to me, and gave me all freedom to play that role.

[edit: Adding tongue-in-cheek remark]

But with that said, I'm go and return to my palace, it's...to hot out here.

You knew something like this would happen, didn't you? You just wanted to tell us you got a palace!

[Andail]

Also trust me I'm attention seeking, when you have a facebook of...I can't say his name cause I don't wanna blow my cover. But some a 1,597 friends and counting then I tell you kind sir if I wanted attention then I would just go there and "wreck-it"

Did you just refer to your inflated number of facebook friends and in the same breath deny that you are attention seeking? Mister, that's pretty much the definition of attention seeking.

Oh, in RPG terms?
At some point you found the sword of Attention-Grabbing + 4 and now you've leveled up so much you've mastered it. You're not allowed around children since they develop ADD just from being near you. When you have visited a town, it takes them ten years to replenish their attention level, because you depleted it.

[Anian]

Did you just refer to your inflated number of facebook friends and in the same breath deny that you are attention seeking? Mister, that's pretty much the definition of attention seeking.

Oh, in RPG terms?
At some point you found the sword of Attention-Grabbing + 4 and now you've leveled up so much you've mastered it. You're not allowed around children since they develop ADD just from being near you. When you have visited a town, it takes them ten years to replenish their attention level, because you depleted it.

Wow, I had to read this to understand what icey said. His posts started (and they remain) with bad grammar and spelling, but now his sentences are just not cohesive nor understandable.

[WHAM]

Yes, you have asked this before...

A good RPG is made the same way any other good game is made: lovingly crafted, coherent and credible story with likeable and memorable characters, fluid gameplay mechanics which are easy to understand, yet difficult to master and graphics and audio that serve to heighten the mood and to convey emotion to the player. All this requires a level of skill, comprehension and understanding rarely contained within a single person or even a group of persons.

For examples on how good console/PC RPG's are made, here is my personal list of reference:
Story: Mass Effect -series, Dragon Age -series, Vampire the Masquerade - Bloodlines, Planescape - Torment, Alpha Protocol
Gameplay: Mass Effect 2, 3, NetHack, Alpha Protocol
Audio: Final Fantasy VI - IX, Vampire the Masquerade - Bloodlines

[Armageddon]

For me, total sandbox, I mean total, Fallout is a good example, right after the tutorial quest you can turn around and spend hundreds of hours in the wastes without going near the main story. Developing your own story is pretty cool. Although Fallout: NV could have taken advantage of the amnesia thing and given you a few random items to start with to give a little background for your character.

If we art talking about more traditional RPGs like FF then the biggest thing to not do is turn based combat. That's an awful, old, outdated system that doesn't need to be used anymore, it's not fun at all, no one played FF for the combat, do something like Kingdom Hearts, it doesn't have to be a shooter and potions and abilities are fine, but don't do turn based.

The main thing of any RPG though is a good story and a well fleshed out world and great multidimensional characters. It's pretty ambitious to try and make a full RPG, and a good one at that. It has to have style, balanced gameplay that can keep you interested for hours and hours. I'd highly suggest avoiding RPG power creep. Also check out these guys http://www.penny-arcade.com/patv/show/extra-credits they talk about RPG gameplay a lot.

Good luck. Also you rub me the wrong way a lot icey, you keep asking the same questions, making really buggy games. You have very bad grammar and talk down to people quite a bit. I don't know I'm not one to judge but gloating about facebook friends? Eugh. You clearly don't like us and never take our advice so why do you stick around?

[veryweirdguy]

Everyone shut up VWG is talking.

I've put some thought into this, and I think the following things are important when designing an RPG:

1) Battles. Gotta have 'em. Preferable with magic (fire, ice, dark and culinary.) The best battle systems are the ones you can grind for days with random encounters - the more, the better. It's important to make people think they are making progress by giving them as many menu screens to navigate as possible. Add a few meaningless spells and items to trick them into making poor decisions. I think the basic stats all characters should have are: attack, defense, magic, sub-magic, speed, defense, counter, spells, defense, charisma and "other". Some people are gonna tell you make these balance out, but not me, I say make speed the most important one - basically the better speed, the more likely you are to win. This is especially true of non turn based battle systems.

2) Weapons. Weapons are obviously important because how else are your characters going to fight? Here are some suggestions for weapons to add to your RPG: sword, dagger, mace, karate chop, laser, gun, rifle, broadsword, slimsword. It's important to design these elements as meticulously as possible, as the minutia of individual, unimportant details are what really bring a world to life.

3) Characters. Be sure to have as many characters as possible, even if they aren't really fleshed out. Some people are gonna tell you to make sure they all have motivations and goals, but that seems like wasting a lot of time to me. You know who had characters with "goals" and "motivations"? Ernest Hemmingway*. Do you know how many successful RPGs he had? Exactly. Characters should be like life, random and disorganised, with your player not really knowing what they will do next. Spontaneous actions are the spice of life! Here's a training exercise: write out 100 actions for a character to perform. Then select 90 of them and make them happen in your game. Then reward yourself with a delicious ice-cream.

3a) Protagonist. Make sure the hero of your game is tied in to a pre-determined path of destiny. Things like ancient prophecies and family lineage can help drive them forward through the game without needing too much extra explanation. Also make sure their parents are a) missing from the start of the game and b) tied into the main plot fairly intricately.

4) Dialogue and cutscenes: Have as many as possible. To ensure your RPG is cinematic, make then at least 15 minutes long. If writing scenes this long seems difficult, make characters have long, awkward pauses (denoted by "...") or have them explain backstory round a campfire. The key is to have lots of static action. If possible, have characters talk in a different language, then have the translation explained to another character (although try not to have a player stand in who wouldn't understand the world, as that is dumb.) Try to make all these scenes sound like they were translated from Japanese, so people take you seriously.

5) World design. Find an existing property and try to stick close to it. If you like Star Wars, make sure you have a type of weapon very similar to a light saber. If you like Lord of the Rings, include a character corrupted by a powerful artifact. If you like Harry Potter, fuck you. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, so imitating the work of others will bring across a grand sense of sincerity in your work that your audience will respect.

6) Large, open areas. Bigger is better! Make sure there are big open patches of space for your characters to wander around. Sometimes you will want to reward the player for exploration, sometimes not. You gotta keep 'em guessing! Occasionally have some loot in them. That is loot as in money, not loot as in lute. But you knew that already, as you're reading this, not speaking it aloud. ALSO: include an ice-world.

7) Code. Code is any collection of computer instructions (possibly with comments) written using some human-readable computer language, usually as text. The source code of a program is specially designed to facilitate the work of computer programmers, who specify the actions to be performed by a computer mostly by writing source code. The source code is often transformed by a compiler program into low-level machine code understood by the computer. The machine code might then be stored for execution at a later time. Alternatively, an interpreter can be used to analyze and perform the effects of the source code program directly on the fly. One example of code would be "The Konami Code", be sure to include that.

8) Villain. Your villain needs to be as one dimensional as possible so your audience won't sympathise with him in any way. To ensure that they understand they are a villain, make their name as descriptive as possible. "Geoff" is not good enough, instead think of names like "The Evil Dark Emperor Death-Kill". If your game is meant for all ages, make sure the villain has a comedic sidekick. If you want to add extra drama to your story, have one of your main character's closest allies suddenly and unexpectedly betray them near the end of the third act.

9) Multiplayer is ALWAYS vital to games, especially modern games. Can you make your battle system work in a competitive online environment? If no, you've failed as a human being and your mother is very disappointed in you. If yes: combolations! You are officially a game designer. Implement some servers into your code (see point 7.) and watch the pennies roll innnnnn.

10) Graphics. Okay, so you've got everything in your head so far, leading to presumably the best RPG of all time. How many graphics do you want to have?

<no graphics> <few graphics> <a moderate amount of graphics> <some graphics> <a lot of graphics> <most graphics>

(PLEASE CIRCLE THE AMOUNT OF GRAPHICS YOU WANT IN PERMANANT MARKER BEFORE PROCEEDING.)

Okay, you've selected the amount of graphics you would like in your game. Aim towards that! If you can't make graphics yourself, find someone who can, by contacting them publicly and offering them the opportunity to work on your game for full credit!

11) Packaging. Once your game is ready, be sure to announce a special edition with some maps, extra weapons, and a digital artbook. Now it's time to kickstart that shiiiiiiiit! Make a Kickstarter and send it to as many media outlets as possible. Tweet about it every 10 minutes, and make fake twitter accounts complimenting the game and how awesome it looks.

12) SEQUEL?!??!?!?! Hopefully you had a sequel to your game thought of before you even started thinking about the first game, so act on that. Did the villain from the first game turn out to not be dead (SPOILER your villain should have appeared to die at the end of the first game)? If the villain is well and truly dead, be sure to have a dark cult ressurect them. If a sequel does not seem like the right way to go, do a spin-off, hopefully in an alternate reality where your hero turns out to be from the future or something.

Congratulations, you are a successful RPG designer! I'll see you at E3 this year! I'll be at the booth for my RPG: "Crystal Warriors: TimeBlood Chronicles Saga: The Final Showdown II: Legends".

* - I'm assuming. I've never read Hemmingway as they never made a movie of his work.

[Crimson Wizard]

Freedom to choose the role and play it.
Freedom to use the items and spells in the ways defined by physics engine and not hard-coded logic.
Freedom to wander away when I don't want to interact with people, and freedom to kill/ignore those who annoy me, even if they are quest characters.
No scripted sequences when people die no matter what I do.

[Icey]

Oh man I didn't think anyone was gonna post, with that being said I hate falling behind on post that I need to answer. I haven't finish reading but one thing I'm gonna throw out there. When I study games I only study what I think AGS is capable of and mostly what I'm capable of. In tomb raider I might like the whole survival instinct feature which might lead me to attempt something close to that.

But I'm gonna go back up and finish reading.

slasher: Their opinions are of no importance to me as they are all COD and fighting game crazed monkeys.
Scavenger: Noted
Ghost: Noted
Andail: I gave a hint of who I am. I don't add people they add me. I play the role of a very new popular Disney Character.
Anian: -.-
WHAM: Noted
Armageddon: Noted
veryweirdguy: Noted..lol
Crimson Wizard: Noted

See now I got a lot of stuff to look at. Even if I made something like this before at least it's up to date(plus I find the old one :3 )
I'm gonna bookmark this so I don't loose it again and put [ICEY] in the title so if I ever loose the bookmark I could always search it that tag.

[cat]

@veryweirdguy
*rofl*

Now I should reward myself with a delicious ice-cream for reading the full post

[Radiant]

I've put some thought into this, and I think the following things are important when designing an RPG:

Excellent! May I offer you a job as game design teacher at my university? They don't normally teach game design but you are so astounding that I'm sure this won't be a problem.

[Intense Degree]

What makes a good RPG in my opinion? Bethesda.

Now one for you, why does the title to this thread contain "[ICEY]"?

[Ponch]

veryweirdguy: Best laugh I've had all day. I hope you'll consider farming out the DLC for "Crystal Warriors: TimeBlood Chronicles Saga: The Final Showdown II: Legends" to my own TWI Studios. I've never played or even heard of your game until today and that makes me the perfect choice. Everyone knows the best DLC is always made by a third party that has limited to no contact with the original developers. Rest assured, I'm already considering ways to disregard your canon story elements and/or rip off the best bits of your game and rehash them in the least creative ways imaginable. I can't wait to insert my own Mary Sue characters!

[Ghost]

Ghost: Noted

No, that doesn't count. You always say that. I want a photo of the notepad you noted it down in.

You know who had characters with "goals" and "motivations"? Ernest Hemmingway*. Do you know how many successful RPGs he had? Exactly.

Best. Quote. EVAR!

[CaptainD]

VWG - have you made a hobby of playing all the worst RPG Maker games?!?!?