okay, my parents aren't really stupid, but sometimes you'd be forgiven for thinking otherwise.
My mum was in the supermarket yesterday (or the day before), and she was telling me about a woman she saw while she was there. She was describing her awful dress sense, and then said "plus, she had dyed her hair blonde, and she was a bit old for that, so I think she's a prostitute!"
I was gobsmacked. Completely gobsmacked! My mother - who claims to be the least judgemental woman in the world (and normally IS) - said that a woman was probably a prostitute because she had bottle-blonde hair!!!!!! (those extra !'s demonstrate my complete disbelief). I have several friends who have dyed their hair blonde, so I said "what about them?" and she said "but that's different!" and I said "why?" and she said "you're just trying to argue with me for no good reason, so shut up."
WTF?!!
And then there was an Australian politician who took her boyfriend on a tax-payer-paid holiday, when she was living with someone else (I think her ex-husband who is also the father of her children). I mean, sure, I was angry - I don't want my money paying for someone else's holiday, but my parents said: "Obviously they have no morals or principles." I mean... okay... fair enough... most politicians come across as fairly uncaring and uninterested in the common person, but to make that kind of judgement on someone just because they took their boyfriend on a holiday? That's a bit rough... isn't it?
You're going to look really silly when you find out that blonde woman in the supermarket was a prostitute.
(http://www.davincisinquest.com/img/Gallery/fullsize/23-3506-65.jpg)
Robert... It's time to remove the Santa's item of your avatar...
yeah, okay. fair enough. she probably was a prostitute. But the way my mum said it suggested "I know these things because I'm older than you and I've been around longer, so obviously I know what prostitutes look like, and I know blonde hair = paid for sex!"
It really made me angry. But I'm sort of over it now.
Plus, from what my mum described, that woman in the photo COULD be the one... so you know... you live and you learn.
You're not alone :p
My mother once listened twice to a phone message of someone trying to hang up, failing, and hanging up again because she thought that it could have been a message for me in morse code (I'm an Army cadet, a signaller).
She gave it to me and asked me to decode it, and I had to explain the mechanics of morse code to her to convince her otherwise.
("Mum, this only could have been 2 or 3 letters, and it was too slow!")
Quote from: Peter Thomas on Tue 25/05/2004 10:59:05
And then there was an Australian politician who took her boyfriend on a tax-payer-paid holiday,
I agree 100% with your parents.
How can you justify this self-serving behaviour?
Flogging's too good for them.
That's why I really wanted Sonia Gandhi to be Indian PM. Imagine a politician that had to be persuaded to take office!
Oh boy. A chance to play devil's advocate.
Peter, how did you respond to your mother's statement? Did you immediately leap down her throat? I ask because my sister constantly used to do the same thing to my mother. My mother would say something my sister disagreed with, and sis would instantly raise her voice and go on the offensive. My mother, naturally, would say "Why are you arguing with me?" while my sister would insist (loudly) that she wasn't.
Just curious.
lol Dave, the same thing happens here.. Kids :/
I'd happily pay to send a number of politicians on "holiday"! He he he...
I'm kidding. You're right about the first case but dead wrong about the second. That's a terrible abuse of power, even if no one was directly harmed by the actions involved. It directly violates the principles of democracy, so I don't think your mother was being unfair to say what she did.
I think we'd need to know more about that particular case before we can decide how angry to be about it. Mostly this: how was it paid by the taxpayers? My impression has always been that politicians who hold offices or parliamentary mandates get paid for it (ignore this post if they don't in Australia). If the money for the holiday came out of that, I don't really see much of a problem.
Well, it was paid like this:
The council took our money, and used it to go on holidays.
Now I'm not saying it's RIGHT or anything, and it certainly angers me, but to just come out and say they have no morals or principles because of that particular action is just unfair. I think she's an idiot and un-caring, but I wouldn't say she had no morals.
And, Dave, I don't raise my voice to my mum. Well, not initially I didn't. I was calm right up the point where she said "you're just arguing for the sake of it", and I let off a BIT more steam and said "no - you're just trying to avoid the fact that you can't justify what you said." To which she replied "I don't have to justify my opinion to anyone. That's why it's called an opinion." And I replied "yes, but you can't just not tell anyone WHY you think things. You have to have a reason!" To which she replied "No I don't". At which point I lost it and yelled (not really yelled. Even when we argue me and my mum still respect each other, so it was more of a forced grunt) "That's just stupid. You can't tell me they have no morals and then refuse to say WHY they have no morals!"
To which my father said "Be quiet, both of you. I'm trying to watch Tv."
:D
Yeah, kids are stupid.
Mine isn't: if I say "The doggies on the bus go 'bow wow wow'," shes repeats 'bow wow wow', which is obviously a sign of great intelligence.
Anyway, if Peter's mother said "It's my opinion that... that woman is a prostitute" or "It's my opinion that... that councillor is immoral" then the correct reply is obviously "It's my opiniuon that you can't judge a book by its cover". But if she presented it as a statement of fact, then she should be prepared to back it up with evidence. Google for "logical fallacies" and you'll find a whole lot of reasons against her subsequent arguiments... i.e. she argued that a moral failing in one area meant that they had no morals... the fallacy of a part being the same as a whole.
We all get to that point where we're a little shocked at something our parents say, or we really disagree with something they say without thought but you can't let yourself get angry at her for it.
I say stuff like that all the time just in a 'jovial' kind of way and my friends know I'm not pretending to honestly make a complete assessment of a strangers life. It's just something you say, because that's your initial impression of a person and what you say about them to your friends doesn't really matter a great deal to anything or anyone. If someone jumped down my throat about a statement like that, I'd be annoyed at them (just like your mum was with you, I'm sure) for making a judgement about me, someone they know VERY well, and not realising that it was just "something you say sometimes".
I'm not trying to attack you, believe me.. I've been in that situation where I jumped down my mum's throat for saying something I disagreed with at the root of my soul, and making way too big a deal out of something she just said because sometimes people say stuff like that. I regret that sort of stuff now :) I think, "My poor mum, putting up with my moods and serious nature".
Think of it like someone saying, "John Howards a prick". You're allowed to say that without people getting up you for not taking into consideration that you're never met him personally and that he's probably a wonderful father and a loving husband.
Quote from: Farlander on Tue 25/05/2004 11:32:06
Robert... It's time to remove the Santa's item of your avatar...
I can't - I don't have the original. :-X
Don't you hate the really DUMB stuff old people (parents) say
"Where did you lose it!!?"
"What time do you call this!??"
and probably lots of stuff I can't think of right now...
Quote from: Kinoko on Tue 25/05/2004 14:35:21I say stuff like that all the time just in a 'jovial' kind of way and my friends know I'm not pretending to honestly make a complete assessment of a strangers life. It's just something you say, because that's your initial impression of a person and what you say about them to your friends doesn't really matter a great deal to anything or anyone.
Exactly - people make throwaway comments like these on a daily basis; sometimes for a cheap laugh, sometimes to try and provoke a discussion. Comments like "don't they have any morals at all" is a pretty standard exaggeration, I really don't see what you're getting worked up about.
Quote from: Peter Thomas on Tue 25/05/2004 10:59:05
okay, my parents aren't really stupid, but sometimes you'd be forgiven for thinking otherwise.
[...] she was telling me about a woman she saw while she was there. She was describing her awful dress sense, and then said "plus, she had dyed her hair blonde, and she was a bit old for that, so I think she's a prostitute!"
[...] I have several friends who have dyed their hair blonde, so I said "what about them?" and she said "but that's different!"
[...]
It is different. Unless they happen to have the same kind of awful dress sense. Your mom may have been thinking about the whole look, dress and hair and all, while you were just concentrating on the hair colour remark.
Edit: The word "plus" from the quote is supposed to be bold, but it isn't showing for me. Use your imagination to picture it.
My dad has uses all these weird generalisations. People might think he is rascist, but he actually just talks like that. He even uses this strange supposedly derogatory word, I have no idea what it is: "wogs". I try preventing him from using the words in public, but he slips quite often. I argue with him alot, even just for the sake of it, but so does he. Neither of it has any hard feelings, so it is probably the best reason to argue
I'll, for the purpose of pointless clarification, explain the details of the parliamentary travel problem.
Since it's sometimes in the call of their duties to travel overseas, official trips can be paid for by the taxpayer.
Much to the chagrin of most of the electorate, backbenchers tend to take research trips that aren't strictly necessary.
Furthermore, to the distaste of most people they're allowed to take spouses [married or de facto] on said trips.
In this case, the partner was cited as a de facto, but wasn't a live in partner as stated in the guidelines.
And since she [the MP] is a marginal seat, she was made to pay it back. Other wise nothing would have happened. A technicallity forceed that, when voters dislike the best part of the scheme.
I'd like to see what would happen if one of the openly gay MPs tried to take their de facto on a trip. Problem is, both would refuse since they're in minor parties that have opposition to parliamentary perks as part of their platform.
Back on the topic of stupid parents...
My step mother once saw my sister tip over a potted plant, and out came, "Oh, nice job 'grace'!"
Ten minutes later she tipped it over too, then quietly asked Alena to clean up the mess she had just made (cleaning it up a second time).
Howabout this one: We were at the Rennaisance Faire, and my step-dfather saw a guy walking by in full chain mail and armor, and suddenly he said, "What a butt-pirate" of course referring to his sexual preferrence.
Or with mom, Me:"Why does the package say to do this, and the guy said the opposite!" (cant remember the circumstances) "Maybe because he's older than 20!" WTF? What does age have to do with knowing how to read the package?
More to come...
I love talking to old ladies on buses, but whenever I mention I'm doing a Japanese degree, I almost count in my head waiting for how many seconds it will take them to then make a comment like, "Japanese, eh? It's funny, 50 years ago we hated them."
I -could- bite her head off and try to debate her way of bringing a fact up at the mere mention of a completely unrelated Japanese topic, but you just have to let some things slide. It's just something some people say and isn't necessarilly a reflrection of heir true personality or opinions.
Sometimes it -is- but even then it's ok to let it go ^_^ They're old, and they'll die soon.
Somebody mentioned the slang word 'wogs'. I think that comes from years ago, when there used to be a childrens toy known as a Gollywog, which was essentially a scruffy little black teddy-sort thing with string hair. Gollywogs were, as far as I know, always black. I think they were basically toy servants or something to that effect... extremely politically incorrect. They're obviously not allowed sell them any more, to the best of my knowledge, but that's where the word 'wog' came from anyway.
And man, I hate that word. I hate you for reminding me. It reminds me of London.
Interesting Trivia: If you read Enid Blytons childrens stories, they are full of gollywogs.
Wog - derogatory for greek.
No. Wop = slang for Mediterraneans. Wog (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=wog) = slang for Indians (or non-whites in general...)
In australia I think wog is slang for a greek/italian/mediteranean person. I don't call anyone by it, but I know some people who are 'wogs' and dont get offended by the term, but I do know others that do.
Well, that's crazy. According to this page (http://www.yaelf.com/aueFAQ/mifwog.shtml), and about 500 more like it, it's a non-white, mainly of Eastern origins...
Wog means mediterranean, from Italy to Lebanon. And it's hardly derogatory any more.
The only slang term I've heard used for people from the suncontinent is "Curries" [I've only heard it used by people from the subcontinent or with descent from there though]. Much tastier sounding than "Paki".
On another note, when talking to some of my Japanese friends, I used to keep making railway jokes without thinking. They all went over their heads though.
But then again, historical slurs are most fun for their lack of relevance.
It's probably just an Australian thing, but the most common people to use the term are Mediterraneans.
In other words you're not really allowed to use the term unless you are a wog or are saying the name of this movie.
(http://www.ezydvd.com.au/g/i/p/2150.jpg)
I have heard the term 'wops' before, specifically from 'True Romance'
but I've never heard people from the subcontinent refered to as wogs, they usually refer to themselves as asians, and as las said, the derogatory is curries.
This also reminds me of the come back to an aussie calling a wog, a wog, they call us 'skips' (as in skippy the kangaroo) which inturn reminds me of this company that rents out large garbage bins, called "Aussie Skips"
I've never heard Wog used of non-whites, honestly. Maybe it's just an Australian thing, but I've always just assumed it was a universal bad word for the greeks (Presumably it must also be known in Greece, as well, or else they'd be all like "wtf? why are you calling me an indian word?").
Back to my parents though... Well... it's the day after, and I'm completely over it now. Well, suffice to say that I'm not angry with anyone, but I still disagree with my mum's opinion. The problem is, sometimes she does generalise and exaggerate, but the minute I point it out and say "that's a bit unfair..." she becomes all defensive and suddenly acts like it is no longer just her opinion, but hard, solid fact. I don't mean to provoke her - I just say it's unfair because I know people who DON'T fall into that category (whatever category my mum is talking about) and I feel like she's unjustly judging them - even if it is only in fun. I just don't find it funny because she's talking about my friends.
So all of a sudden her opinion has become universal fact, and I'm wrong because I didn't turn my opinion into fact before she did. And I'm so bad because of it and I should stop trying to "argue for the sake of argument". I mean.. what the hell? Yeah... I just love being all tense and uncomfortable and hot-headed and tempremental and impatient and flushed. Who wouldn't?