I'm bringing this question here only because I know you people are SANE and because I know a lot of you also play RPGs and whatnot.
There's an independant RPG that seems to be regarded as one of the best out there called Ara Fell. I downloaded this and upon attempting to play it, realised you need to have the program it was made with (RPG Maker 2003) to play it. Okay, whatever, it's a pain in the ass but what the hey. So I have RM2k3 installed, try to play the game, it still doesn't work.
I'm told by people that I have the wrong RTP file, I'm told by others I need to rename some files here and there, I'm told by others I need to rename so many files it's not worth it and I should get a whole new folder by someone/thing called RPG Advocate... does anyone here have any clue as to what's going on? I HATE this program. I HATE it with a passion I cannot describe. Why do people make games with such a stupid freaking program and why do people play them when there's SO much ****ing around you have to do beforehand.
Is it just me?? This is driving me insane. I feel like when I release my game in the one exe file people won't know what to do with it because it'll be too simple for them.
EDIT: Nope, nope, forget it. I've had my fill of this piece of crap program. I just delted all the RPG Maker games I had and the stupid, stupid RTP files and I'm never, EVER trying to use it again. It just baffles me that anyone would want to use a program like that.
I guess as testament to how crap that program is, you just need to look at the games people make with it and the culture that surrounds it. I swear, if I ever met anyone who made a game with all their own graphics and sounds and programming, I'd turn into a penguin. That whole RPGM culture is stupid, all praising each other for making a pretty looking demo made up of ripped graphics and pre-made chipsets. 75% of the games are Pokemon or Final Fantasy rip offs. ARGH!!!
Is it that they're lazy or it just doesn't occur to them to actually make their own game with their own material? I don't know... I've had it. I've reached the end of my patience.
I LOVE AGS like a thousand and one kittens made out of chocolate flavoured gold. Don't stray people, because it's a scary, crappy, unprofessional world out there.
*Looks admireringly at Kinoko* ;) You know it...
Yeah, I dabbled a little bit with RPG maker (as well as a few other Game Making Programs), and by far, AGS and the wonderful community here is tops in my books in so many ways compared to most of those other game-making programs and communities.
I share similar sentiments that you expressed.
For a while I've been kicking around the idea to make a RPG style game using AGS (I used to be big-time into the RPG scene), so, I just make soon go ahead and do just that.
Best wishes, and keep up with you great work. I for one, am a fan of your wonderful projects.
I once tried to dabble with Unlimited Adventures. I gave up for the same reason - so many hacks, so many versions, so many things to do before I could even PLAY the damned modules... not worth it.
RPG Maker games... most of them look and play the same. It seems it can be quite hard to make specialized things in it as it requires coding, so that may be the reason. I'm sure good games made can be made with it, but the trouble surrounding getting them to run annoys a lot of people (including me).
Compared to AGS, RPG Maker isn't really all that much. There are much better and more flexible game makers out there and AGS is one of them.
Another interesting thing is that RPG Maker 2000/2003 is a commercial product in its original (japanese) form...
RPG Maker came out on the PSX.
Yea. It was fun on the PSX.. But the computer version blows.
that engine assumes to much about how an rpg is supposed to be made, and changing any of the fundamental aspects requires too much code. If one is up to it, why not go with the IKA lib and C or something. RPGMaker is really badly designed, if you hope to wrestle an innovative, challenging amateur rpg out of it.
I've played a few of these RPG Maker games, and I remember having a bit of trouble sorting out where everything goes. It ended up not being that complicated if I remember correctly, but I remember having to figure it all out myself. What's annoying is there are no instructions on what to do or the extra files you need - and then it's hard to actually FIND the damn files you need.
Never heard of Ara Fell though. One of the games that I DID like was "Blurred Line". Despite all the ripped graphics, it had a such a great story that I was willing to overlook that stuff.
Yeah, you're right. RPG Maker is annoying to run, but I've had good experience with it. My first game came out on it. I'm thinking about transferring it over to AGS, supposing I could get the help I need. I have noticed that many try to make Zelda games on RPG Maker, and my reaction, after 5 months of experience with it, is "Yeah, but are there any puzzles? What about switches? What about pulling statues? What about pictures for the inventory items? What about using the inventory items?" and much more. I have decided that AGS can probably make a good Zelda game, if one tried hard at it. So, I started to try, but I stopped, because I couldn't figure out how to do it. I know, though, that RPG Maker will NEVER make a good Zelda game.
Also, I do like RPG Maker, but in my experiences with it, I have decided the following: RPG Maker CANNOT make voice games. RPG Maker CANNOT make long and fun games. RPG Maker CANNOT make hybrids (like Zelda and Quest for Glory) and RPG Maker CANNOT make good RPGs, unless one is looking for an amateur-like game. Although, I do have one RPG Maker game, it is only a free version. When I get better at AGS, I will probably make the game again, but next time, it will not be with RPG Maker.
I would VERY much like to see your Zelda game made in AGS ^_^ Hope you pick that up again someday.
Quote from: [lgm] on Tue 10/05/2005 13:21:31
Yea. It was fun on the PSX.. But the computer version blows.
What are you talking about?Ã, The PSX version sucked dirty diapers too.
If it makes you feel any better, Kinoko, you kind of inspired me to make an RPG with AGS... sorry, not anything near Zelda.
Oh hell, it's all good! ^_^ Let's ALL start making RPGs!
sorry for bumping this old thread, i also saw a similar one by kinoko talking about rpg makers
i am a great JRPG fan like those old snes and early playstation games , Lufia, Chrono Trigger, seiken densetsu 3, secret of mana, zelda, ff, etc.
Of course the best ever is Suikoden and if you haven't played this and you're a fan of the genre, you must play it. (that is Suikoden 1 and 2)
the reason for my post. I have been working for quite a while (mostly planning and system design) for a RPG engine similar in style to AGS. It will not be a an RPG maker as i find them usually not very strong (and not even free). I will create this engine as complete freeware and embed it with functionality to make any RPG game possible.
It will have a script engine similar like AGS (its very much AGS inspired) and a different sort of GUI system. However the room structure will differ slightly.
It will solely be an RPG engine (more tile-based), but because of its design it should be relatively easy to design adventure, platformers, brawlers etc on it as well. Its functionality will be vast and anything you have ever seen in RPGs WILL be covered in it, for example switching between battle systems will be a small button (that is between realtime fighting (secret of mana), turn-based (lufia) and active timer (chrono trigger). For now its very much still in production.
Anyways its merely a starting project now, but once done, hopefully it will also have its own community etc.
Of course i'm halting it for the moment since i'm first creating an AGS game myselfÃ, :P
OH, what would you guys like to see in an RPG engine like AGS? What is the musts and the don'ts?
I just hated the program, i tried to make an rpg, but the switch system is just more complicated than it has to be for something so simple.
As for the games, they are almost all the same... I'd rather use AGS to make an RPG any day.
Anyone remember Amaranth (the maker of Gaea Fallen)? Some time ago I happened to stumble upon her website. She has made quite a neat RPG called Ahriman's Prophecy which is similar to old Snes RPGs. Have a look: http://www.amaranthia.com/modules/tinycontent/index.php?id=8
She has used an engine called RPG Tsukuru (I think), I haven't heard about it before, but it certainly doesn't sound bad, Ahriman's Prophecy proves that.
I used to use the official hamster republic role playing game creation engine (ohrrpgce). It's DOS based, but it's pretty good, fully customizable, and it's easier just to make your own sprite- and tilesets than try to find a compatible one and import it. That was back in the day, though. I decided to make horror games instead of fantasy games.
I remember Ahriman's Prophecy. I downloaded it a few months ago and still have it installed on my computer. Gonna have to play it through some day.
The engine sounds fine, but I'd still be with magintz about rather using AGS for RPG making. I don't like those RPG makers.
Hey it might be stupid but, its got its good point..
*Really nice tile sets.
Man that was kewl I loved the graphics you got with the engine.
And I think there was sound too.
i'm checking out that game from the girl. Looks excellent!
Quote from: Petteri on Mon 31/10/2005 11:41:59She has used an engine called RPG Tsukuru (I think), I haven't heard about it before, but it certainly doesn't sound bad
Heh, RPG Tsukuuru is the japanese name for RPG maker, actually - though she may well have been using a more up to date, commercial version of the program. I saw a copy of it for the PS2 the other day when I was game-shopping. Thought about picking it up for a moment, then slapped myself mentally for even thinking about it. I can barely divide my time between the projects I'm working on in AGS, much less mess around with a new one that only I'd be able to play anyway.
I'm definitely all about AGS. Hell, with all of the extra game types being built with it, like platformers and RPGs,
AGS is almost seeming like a misnomer or understatement.
I'm not following the disussion but I'm happy the words 'Stupid, stupid RPG Maker' are still visible somewhere on the internet.
(*ahem* Re: Tilesets, people who don't wanna put the time in to make their own graphics shouldn't be making RPGs and posting them on the net)
There are some really good games made with rpgmaker, with ripped graphics tho.
The recent version of rpgmaker you can script with Ruby and change a lot of things
But I still think AGS is a lot better than rpgmaker
o/
Quote from: Kinoko on Tue 01/11/2005 05:49:19(*ahem* Re: Tilesets, people who don't wanna put the time in to make their own graphics shouldn't be making RPGs and posting them on the net)
Why the hell can't they do whatever they want?
Cause I say so?
Not everybody can draw you realise? Why should they be banned from creating games? There are people that make AGS games using ripped graphics too, should they also not be made and posted?
No. It's a new law I invented.
Seriously, don't take me so...uh, seriously. I exaggerate my opinions. :) But one of the things that soured me on the RPG making community is that 99% of people just make shitty games with the standard/ripped graphics. That and the fact that RPG Maker is such an annoying program (compared to AGS, anyway) just killed my interest in amateur RPGs.
modge, Kinoko is a female geek. Male geeks are powerless to resist her commands.
Damn straight. Everybody strip and do the chicken dance, now!
Actually, it's one of the great things about the AGS community that most people only make at most one rubbish game with ripped sprites before they either leave or start making good games. Sometimes someone crops up out fo the blue with a totally cool game as their first, too.... not thinking of any mushrooms in particular ;)
mushrooms? Ah you're talking about Vince XII here. Yes you're right!
;D
The best thing I see here is that you don't normally see other people's games being referred to as "rubbish," that would seem to be the main difference between here and miserable RPGMaker communities. I wonder if that has some contributing influence to people feeling inspired to make decent games with AGS?
Well, I mean that's my point. The AGS community is amazing! People really try and of course there are a lot of "crappy" games but people still keep getting better. The ratio of games using custom graphics (no matter how "bad") to ripped graphics ... well, there's a big difference. When I go to RPG Maker communities, every single game is a BIG idea (hence, never ever gets finished) using ripped/default graphics... the fact that 99% of people are like that puts me right off.
Lets not all remember Cirque too fondly either. I cringe when I go back and look at that game. I'll admit it was better than a lot of peoples' first games but still.
I think using "ripped" graphics is not neccesairly a bad thing if put to good use as to fit in with the style / mood / setting of the game project.
Ã, Ã, Or sometimes in going for a more "realistic" or "3D-ish" style of graphics, I have about zero talent and skills in that area, so I then turn to "borrowing" some cool looking graphics that might fit into a game I have in mind.Ã, The times I have borrowed graphics from other sources to use in my own games, 99% of the time I end up re-editing the graphics anyways to make them useable.Ã, I know that it's not "original", and I may be "bending some rules" in this regards, but when doing this as a hobby, for free, I don't think too many people really mind this if they get some enjoyment out of my projects.
I'd love to be able to have the time and talent to draw tons of great looking graphics, and I do play around with my drawing skills in hopes to improve on it, and I do have plans and projects in the works that will feature all original art.
Ã, But sometimes I envision some great ideas that can be implemented by using already existing graphics available, and if done right I think can still make for a great gaming experience.Ã, As most of us game-makers here in the AGS community already knows, especially those of us lacking talent and skills in drawing original art and graphics, it can be really hard to find a decent artist willing to commit to team up with you for a project, especially if it's a large project. Which I'm not blaming anyone, I mean we all have our own commitments, responsibilties and lives to live outside of making up free adventure games.Ã, Myself, I've had to turn down some people asking me for help on their projects too, as I was too busy with other things at the time.
I can understand Kinoko's points, and I agree that "borrowing" art/graphics from other sources is generally frowned upon in the game-making community. And like she mentioned, about 99% of RPG community amateur game-makers tend to use ripped graphics, which can become quite unoriginal, and seeming to just be a re-hash of the same thing done again and agian and agian...
But then, as a hobbiest amateur Adventure game-maker like myself lacking artistic talents when it comes to drawing up great looking graphics, I think that if approched the right way, a project can still turn out great even using "ripped" graphics.
People keep saying a good adventure game is not so much about the "graphics", but rather adventure game fans tend to perhaps more appreciate a well thought out story, interesting characters and puzzles over fancy graphics.Ã, Though that being said, I think good looking art/graphics (as well as music and sounds) certainly does add to the overall appeal of an adventure game.
So, I guess there's positives and negatives about using ripped art/graphics.
Ã, Ã, Rock on.Ã, :)Ã, (Does the naked chicken dance)Ã, :=
I own a licenced copy of RMXP (the newest version) many of the problems she describes are issues with the older engines.
While the old interfaces still exist in XP the core of the thing is ruby scripting, so you can go in and edit and change whatever you want, in fact you can forgo the front end completely and do the whole thing in ruby...
Also, the older verisons expect things to be in certain folders and so on and so forth, which is true with XP, however you can package the whole game together (much like AGS does). How the older versions worked is it looked for the file, if it was an RTP file (run time package, think of it as default graphics) it would look for the default rtp folder, if that folder didn't exist, it would throw an error... if it was a game file (imported into the game) and it wasn't there, or named wrong (because of people changing the file name but not in the engine) it would throw an error.
It also comes from the "illegal" nature of 95 2k and 2k3, these were never released in english, others hacked it and translated it, others wanted to get more maps, or add some other functionality to the program so they hacked it again to gain more variables or switches (booleans).
On top of it for some reason the community is very wary of each other, on top of trying to cut down on bandwith usage of their free sites (many use geosh*tties) they don't include the run time executable, for viruses and to make the download smaller.
Another advantage of XP is the higher resolution, and no longer are you limited to 256 colors (although technically it was 256 colors per graphics sheet, you could have millions of colors).
The only one I use now is RMXP, Enterbrain finally translated it into english, and you can get it at download.com... it is reasonably priced at 60 USD. The only reason I haven't done anything with the program is I haven't had time to learn Ruby.
Being a veteran of that scene and one step away from admin on a RM website, I have a good knowledge of the whole thing...
Hope that was informitive
Quote from: Kinoko on Tue 01/11/2005 05:49:19
(*ahem* Re: Tilesets, people who don't wanna put the time in to make their own graphics shouldn't be making RPGs and posting them on the net)
Well in that case the world of evolution should stop, writers are not allowed publishing books, cause they dont do that on their own... Oh and well movies should not happen cause the "writers of the story dont create their own graphics?
Dont know Konoko not everybody has multiple skills and are skilled in a main category, myself I am a writer part time... also love graphics and puzzles. The point being that even though I can draw a little my writing is way better. So should I not find someone that proffesionalizes in art?
Quote from: Kinoko on Tue 10/05/2005 05:32:17
I guess as testament to how crap that program is, you just need to look at the games people make with it and the culture that surrounds it. I swear, if I ever met anyone who made a game with all their own graphics and sounds and programming, I'd turn into a penguin. That whole RPGM culture is stupid, all praising each other for making a pretty looking demo made up of ripped graphics and pre-made chipsets. 75% of the games are Pokemon or Final Fantasy rip offs. ARGH!!!
Is it that they're lazy or it just doesn't occur to them to actually make their own game with their own material? I don't know... I've had it. I've reached the end of my patience.
eh, that char in cirque looks suspiciously a lot like guybrush?
and why does the bear look like such a different style than other character sprites in the game, which already look different to other character sprites in the same game?
and why does all the houses in town look completely different than the houses outside?
are u just inconsistent?
:-\
is kiniko hot? else i just dont get al these people making her seem like the goddess of games? so many people idd rather have interviewed.
Quoteis kiniko hot? else i just dont get al these people making her seem like the goddess of games? so many people idd rather have interviewed.
The big problem I've always found with this whole RPG Maker scene is that it's full of idiots like ebby. I always liked the RPG Maker programs, hated the community that surrounds it. Now that there's a legit version out there in English I hope things will improve.
Afflict, settle. I've already explained that I was purposely being an ass and exaggerating my opinion. That, plus I didn't mean people shoudn't work in teams. I'm not even referring to the adventure gaming community here. Trust me, the flavour in the RPG making communities is completely different. Here, if people do use ripped graphics, they either never finish and stop making games, or they continue to improve and put more effort into them. In that community, 99% of the games are simply a bit of scripting and story added to ripped or custom graphics. It's suffocating that so few people even try to make new things.
ebby: I'm not even going to dignify that with an answer until you learn how to type. Anyone here that knows me knows what my "deal" with that game was. I'm hardly a "goddess" here anyway (that's Yuf!), someone was just... once again... exaggerating in the spirit of playing around.
I am pretty darn hot though.
The main issue about why ripped graphics is a sore thumb is in the eys of 2 viewers.
1: artistic sobs and
2: people who recognize the sprites
I often find myself in the first category in which a shiver is sent down my spine every time someone use obviously ripped sprites and or "try for a 3d-ish looking game". This because graphics are not there to be slick, they are there to enhance the writing. Less is more, always. Why does Pleurghburg rock so hard? Not because of it's ripped sprites, nor because of how gorgeous they are. No quite the opposite, it's AGI quality baby, and it's all homegrown. Yeah!
The second category is when a specific sprite is used and someone allready has a relationship to it. Like someone using the hero-sprites from Chrono Trigger, and it usually makes me want to delete and tear out my eyes in sorrow. Or we see the same character portrait used for the 30th time, but for another character in which the SLP's are turned in to icons rather than actual characters, completely annihilating all immersion ("Oh this is a sad, shy healer.. oh well..")
Yes, someone may think and regard themselfs as much better writers than artists, but you must still realise that your work is different from everyone elses because it's yours! You are unique, and so is your styles. Ripping means inconsistency, and takes away from the overall feel of a game. It is like making a spartan room design, then putting a big LNES FALARE!!11! all over it to make it look better.
It does not.
Quote from: Kinoko on Wed 02/11/2005 08:28:16
ebby: I'm not even going to dignify that with an answer until you learn how to type. Anyone here that knows me knows what my "deal" with that game was. I'm hardly a "goddess" here anyway (that's Yuf!), someone was just... once again... exaggerating in the spirit of playing around.
You don't realise that ebby IS Yufster ;)
*gasp* What a disguise!
Quote from: 2ma2 on Wed 02/11/2005 09:13:20
Yes, someone may think and regard themselfs as much better writers than artists, but you must still realise that your work is different from everyone elses because it's yours! You are unique, and so is your styles. Ripping means inconsistency, and takes away from the overall feel of a game. It is like making a spartan room design, then putting a big LNES FALARE!!11! all over it to make it look better.
It does not.
Hey thats an interesting point 2ma2 didnt think of it like that, guess some stupid things hold us back sometimes. Thanks.
Quote from: ebby on Tue 01/11/2005 22:25:03
eh, that char in cirque looks suspiciously a lot like guybrush?
and why does the bear look like such a different style than other character sprites in the game, which already look different to other character sprites in the same game?
and why does all the houses in town look completely different than the houses outside?
are you just inconsistent?
:-\
is kiniko hot? else i just dont get al these people making her seem like the goddess of games? so many people idd rather have interviewed.
Anybody that has released a decent game like Cirque is worthy enough to be an AGS god in my opinion. This was by far one of the games that felt to me like a real, authentic "old school" game. Way to go Kinoko!
Quote from: Kinoko on Tue 10/05/2005 05:32:17
I guess as testament to how crap that program is, you just need to look at the games people make with it and the culture that surrounds it. I swear, if I ever met anyone who made a game with all their own graphics and sounds and programming, I'd turn into a penguin. That whole RPGM culture is stupid, all praising each other for making a pretty looking demo made up of ripped graphics and pre-made chipsets. 75% of the games are Pokemon or Final Fantasy rip offs. ARGH!!!
Is it that they're lazy or it just doesn't occur to them to actually make their own game with their own material? I don't know... I've had it. I've reached the end of my patience.
I realise the community is different, but there is activity and that is good. What is not so good is the fact that they are
all making fan games... This is stupid like you said there own work, and like 2ma2 said is unique and better.
I'll get working on that authentic rpg maker game, I wonder how hot a penguin can be... :D
Haha...."Ripping" can be a certain style too. O' course, you have to be consistent in that too. And make a point, too. I suppose it wouldn't work well in a serious game.
The biggest thing I hate about the community (and remember I've been part of it for over 5 years) is the type of people it draws... Since the RM is usually pretty easy to use, any 10 year old with internet access can get a hold of it. And it's usually out of laziness they rip or use the RTP.
However, these people are dubbed n00bs for their use of the RTP, people will not even play a game if they find it uses the RTP, it could be the best game ever put out by a user, but if it's RTP it is then crap and must be destroyed.
Generally, it is an engine that works best when you have multiple people working on it, for music, graphics, and so on. It's generally long work making a sprite sheet, or even worse a tile set... hundreds of 16X16 (or in XP 32X32) tiles take a very long time, especially when you need them to tile, but not look like they tile.
So basically, it is a younger community than AGS, and therefore is less tolerant of less than perfection. While people here appreciate the story and gameplay aspects, there they expect perfect graphics, perfect stories, and perfect music. Here if it is playable, and altogether fun, it is accepted, and even if it needs improvement, the more mature userbase here will give suggestions of HOW to make it better, not just OMG U N00B STFU RTFM!!! (coded to preserve the leet.
When I first started in the community, I was making an game using nothing but the RTP, just to prove an excellent game could be made using it. All that I trusted that read my script (135 page word doc) loved it, when I showed off my maps, people commented on how I was using the RTP properly. Unfortunately it never was released due to a HDD wipe I had to do, due to a nasty little virus I picked up somewhere. I had a chance to hopefully change the community for the better, but that fell through.
I'm more of a fringe memeber now... I still patrol the forums of the site to keep the jerks in line, and I'm always on the IRC channel, mostly because I like the people. I bought the legal english RMXP most likely, I'll make a game in it... in fact I already have one started, but as I said, until I get into ruby and have time to learn, I will most likely just go with the defaults... which the community will hate... but hell, I'm 28 I have 3 kids... what is a 12 year old going to say to me to make me feel bad about myself?