Summer means no religion or politics?

[TerranRich]

As for Obama, if he succeeds in giving every US citizen health care... then he already would have done more than I could've imagined..   ..and I would stop calling the United States a third world country, I promise..

It's sad how many conservative assclowns are against it, calling it socialism and trying to find ways that it'll be worse than the system we have now. Pfft.

[Ryan Timothy B]

The people are blind and deaf. And you have no arms, and must either pull the lever with your teeth or headbutt the dude from the bridge.

Shit.  Sounds like they must be standing on the railroad tracks, not by accident, but to commit suicide. 
I think if that was the case I'd probably let the train pass by, therefor killing the five.  Then use my head bunting abilities to push the blind and deaf guy on the bridge wandering, to his death just to end his miseries too.

[Nacho]

I am not boring!

[Layabout]

Pull the lever repeatedly back and forth to derail the train.

[Esseb]

Creed: The problem with question 2 is that it assumes you answered yes in question 1, but no, I wouldn't pull the lever in the first situation. If it were about saving a thousand people though... Wonder where my limit is? I guess around 15 people.

On second thought, I'd go with Layabout's suggestion.

[Creed Malay]

The people are blind and deaf. And you have no arms, and must either pull the lever with your teeth or headbutt the dude from the bridge.

Shit.  Sounds like they must be standing on the railroad tracks, not by accident, but to commit suicide. 
I think if that was the case I'd probably let the train pass by, therefor killing the five. 

The guy on the other path is Hitler.

[Snarky]

Pull the lever repeatedly back and forth to derail the train.

But the train is full of babies!

[Ryan Timothy B]

The guy on the other path is Hitler.

Hitler was a nice guy, he was just confused.  Lets kill the 5 instead. lol

[Layabout]

Pull the lever repeatedly back and forth to derail the train.

But the train is full of babies!

More reason to derail the train.

[Atelier]

The five people on the track might be approaching me to warn me about a train coming up behind me. So I'd pull the lever to avoid a head on collision of the two trains, jump out of the way, the first train would kill the man picking flowers, and the second train would kill the five people wandering on the track, who start to walk back up the track because they realise I've jumped out of the way just in time.

Either way everybody dies.

[miguel]

Okay, let's change things around:
The year is 1938, Hitler was on the cover of Time magazine (google for it, he really was) as one of Europe brightest leader. That same day of the train incident, he decides to go on to the railway and pick flowers.
You are from the future so you know what he will become (a really bad painter) and are standing next to the lever that switches directions. 
The other five persons are Gandhi, Mother Teresa, Marie Curie, Joe Pesci and Seal. They all scream at you, begging you to pull the lever!
Who do you save?
Joe is calling you names beyond decency, Seal hugs Gandhi, Mother Teresa prays for your sins. Nobody notices Marie Curie.
Who deserves to live?
Is it really that simple to choose?

[RickJ]

Creed:  All the people on the tracks have decided to take the risks associated with walking on train tracks.   The person who is alone is not in danger by luck or knowledge of the train schedule.   Either way it is not up to anyone, regardless of the numbers involved to decide to kill one person to save another.   In my view the pulling the switch is homicide.  The five people who are about to die are in this situation by their own actions and choice.   How is it moral or ethical to take another person's life so as to allow (5 or a million) others to avoid the consequences of their actions?

Miguel:  Being from the future I would realize that Marie Curie had died four years earlier and that Joe Pesci and Seal were not yet born.   I would also know that Gandhi died in 1948 and Mother Teressa died in 1997.  One couldn't be certain that the remaining individual is Hitler.   This leaves us with the original question.  

[edit]
TerranRich: Some of us Assclowns  have take the time to find out what  is actually in the bill before congress.   Here is a link to it.   

http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h3200/text

I am against it because it is a coercive, overly complicated mess.    It creates a huge bureaucracy that will determine what treatment one can and cannot receive for any given aliment.  People will be denied life saving drugs and treatments because they are too expensive and/or not effective 100% of the time.   Things that ought to be decided by doctor and patient will be decided by an unelected, resource limited bureaucracy. 


Ms. McCaughey,  former Lt. Governor of NY, has read the bill in it's entirety and offers her commentary in this ~10 min interview,  for those of you who are interested.   (Interview conducted by Fred Thompson former republican senator, presumably Ms. McCaughey  is also republican)   

Betsy McCaughey Interview 

[Ethan D]

I think the problem with these situations is that if you take action you kill one.  If you don't you essentially killing five.  So it's not asking whether it is ethical to kill one to save five it's only asking whether its better to kill one or five if you have to.

[RickJ]

If you don't you essentially killing five.

I disagree.  If I do nothing I have not killed anyone.  If the five die I am not the cause; they are the cause by their own actions and decisions.

[Ryan Timothy B]

It really is a poor question.

As far as you know moving the train to the other track takes it directly to a bridge that is under heavy construction.  Therefor killing everyone on the train, Plus the lonely flower picker.

[MrColossal]

It's a thought experiment, sheesh...

There is no "as far as you know" there is no "I'll wave my arms!" You are told everything you need to know to make a moral or ethical decision based on the information.

RickJ: What if the 5 people on the tracks were family members of yours?

[Snarky]

If you don't you essentially killing five.

I disagree.  If I do nothing I have not killed anyone.  If the five die I am not the cause; they are the cause by their own actions and decisions.

So if we remove the guy on the other track, so that there's no "downside", I guess you still would have no responsibility to flip the switch and save the five?

I'm pretty sure that if you were in a situation where you were watching people about to get killed, and you could press a button to save them and no one else getting hurt, and you were completely aware of the situation and free to make whatever choice you wanted... and you decided not to press the button, and let them die, you could be charged with homicide very easily.

[miguel]

RickJ, lets say you do know that Hitler will become a mass murderer, but he is your uncle and you love him.
Mr.Colossal is right, all those dilemmas turn into dust if a single person in the rail road is related to you (friend,brother,etc...). Nobody will save Gandhi and the others and let his friend die.
Even if his/her friend/family is Hitler who is about to die. A human being wouldn't kill Hitler over Seal and Joe Pesci.
So, again it is proved that humanity prevails over intellectuality. It's a bigger force.
Like God.
...
...
...
...
 

[Vince Twelve]

I am against it because it is a coercive, overly complicated mess.    It creates a huge bureaucracy that will determine what treatment one can and cannot receive for any given aliment.  People will be denied life saving drugs and treatments because they are too expensive and/or not effective 100% of the time.   Things that ought to be decided by doctor and patient will be decided by an unelected, resource limited bureaucracy. 

Congratulations! You just described the current US medical system!  Except replace the word "bureaucracy" with "money-hungry insurance company interested in their own bottom line over the health and well being of their customers".  As someone who has been recently screwed into thousands of dollars of bills by the insurance company that has been taking my money and was supposed to have me covered, I'll take the bureaucracy.

[Andail]

I disagree.  If I do nothing I have not killed anyone.

With this kind of cynism, people will probably read your opinions about health care in a different light...