I just finished watching Michael Moore's latest film, "SiCKO." Very fascinating stuff, and thought provoking.
I'm gathering up info on other nations and their healthcare systems, and at the same time, I'd like to hear from all of you out there about your own experiences with your healthcare system, and if you're satisfied and well taken care of.
We can certainly discuss the film here, but I'd like to focus on a few of the following questions:
What country do you live in?
What is your experience with and opinion of your healthcare system?
Do you find your clinics and hospitals organized and efficient, or are there people waiting for weeks and months to get in?
What is the price of public healthcare, and is it worth it?
Any input on this topic will be greatly appreciated. :D
I'm from the Netherlands.
Healthcare insurance is mandatory. It costs me about 90-100 euro a month, which is pretty much, but we get most of the care we need for that amount.
In the UK, if not mistaken, NHS is free. Totally.
You do get waiting times, but then again I think that the hospitals have a rather high level (compared to other countries that is ;D). I took my older son for a sleep study (apnoia) in a hospital near padington and can testify that it was totally clean, great nurses (and cute actually ;D), the room was empty for me and my son to sleep in and plenty of toys and videos for the kid to watch as well as breakfast in the morning. It felt like a sort of a hotel or something. Pretty happy with it.
Now, the GP system can also work, but I can't say that I'm satisfied with my own GPs. At least you get to see them the same day or the day after, which is great if you think about it (and free).
I'll let someone british to speak about the NHS though. They will know better.
The NHS is totally free except for the £6.50 prescription fee for every item of medication you get prescribed. The problem with the NHS is the variation of quality of services depending on where you are in the country. Individual GP practices are sometimes swamped and make it difficult to get appointments, yet others you can pretty easily get a same day one if you're not fussy about time. It can take a while to get referred to specialists, though I've managed to get an appointment at an allergy clinic in under 6 weeks, which was suprising considering allergy clinics and dertmatologists are usually high in demand. I've never had a problem with the quality of hygiene or anything at any hospitals, but then I don't tend to need to go to them.
In anycase, I'd rather have the NHS and be guaranteed treatment for free (with some potential delays) than have to remortgage a house I don't have for a long term serious illness if we had a private healthcare system.
heh...
with the kids I keep forgetting the £6.50... Sorry 'bout that. But let me back up Becky here, that the appointments with the hospital for my son were under 4 weeks. So, yes you can't expect any sooner for a non urgent situation. (and I do love the blood donation system in all truth. I don't know if I'll keep giving blood when I go back to Greece, but over here, I just feel... warm)
I live in Finland.
We have free NHS, basically, then we also have an option to choose private clinics. The state of NHS is under argument here atm, within the past few weeks the nurses have gone to a strike, or leaving their jobs as to show how serious they are. The lines have become a problem within the few years, we have a current trend of kind of privatising health care which means shortening the lines by recmmending private services which cost money, but are however supported by the state. Many argue if this is the right direction to turn to, not in my opinion.
Our health care system is known as good and reliable, which it is basically. But as it is free, it is paid out of tax money and the lines are getting longer only because of lacking support. 1700e a month is not enough in their opinion, and nor in mine, hence the strike. Also the staff at the moment is working more than one could expect them to, the job is tiring and demanding and yet not respected at all. We need more professionals but we aren't going to get them with such salaries.
For some surgeries one might have to wait for several years if it's not urgent. For an urgent situation you'll get immediate help which is top quality and free. It's got its pros and cons, but at the moment our health care system suffers from lack of respect and support. in fact, after 25 years of progression their salary is the only that has not developed anywhere. My mother is a nurse, I hear everything from her.
As a student I've got my own health care system provided. Free for students, shorter lines, but still 1 year for dental check. however the emergency hours from 8 to 10 am are completely lineless if you're ready to wake up so early. I told them my tooth aches and got past the line.
You don't want a socialist rant here about the state of NHS or any other political shouting, so I'll leave it short, if it were a Finnish forum I would have lots and lots to say ;)
To add what Tuomas explained. We have some fees (at least in my municipality) which is something like 10 euros per visit and that is charged maximum of three times per year. Also some procedures list their own prices like röngten is something like 20 euros. I'm not too familiar with these fees as I'm lucky enough that I don't have to use these services too often (and right now I can use private services for free as company benefit).
QuoteIt's got its pros and cons, but at the moment our health care system suffers from lack of respect and support. in fact, after 25 years of progression their salary is the only that has not developed anywhere. My mother is a nurse, I hear everything from her.
I think that applies very much to the health service here as well. Underpaid, underappreciated, and overworked.
Free in Sweden, except some fee of 10â,¬ per "session". Whether it's a heart transplant or flu treatment doesn't matter.
Sometimes the waiting time in the free municipal clinics are ridiculously long, and if you have a semi-serious affection (you can't wait for an appointment, but it's still not life threatening) then you might be left in the waiting room for half a day.
Dental care, on the other side, is not covered by the taxes, and is thus crazily expensive. I fixed a tooth some half a year ago and it cost me 300â,¬. It was a root canal, but still...
What are taxes and national debt like in England? In the film, he only talks about France having equivalent taxes to the US but they certainly don't have an equivalent war machine. Britain, I would suspect, is a better standard to measure against.
I live in Oklahoma, USA, and though I'm not a native American I know lots and lots of them. In case you didn't know, the natives are basically US funded socialist states and (so far as I know) all of them have their own medical centers.
I asked one native about her health care experiences once, and she went on about how nice it was to get free care even though the hospitals are a bit crowded. I asked how her surgery went (she had something removed) and she said, "They left something inside of me.."
One of my friends has some mental health issues with paranoia and delusions. They basically gave him some pills and hoped for the best after he told them what was going on in his life rather than talking him through his issues. I'm pretty upset about this because he quit taking his medication (which was for depression, not paranoia and delusions and wasn't helping him anyway). Now we're (all of his friends) just waiting for the next attack to strike so we can try to convince him that there's not a conspiracy going on around him.
These were both Cherokee Indians, all of their medical services are free, I'm not sure how the other tribes medical systems rate, but this one is sub-par compared to even some of the smaller municipal hospitals.
On the flip side, I couldn't afford mental health care, dentistry or a medical non-emergency right now at all and I can't get health insurance through my employer until I've been there a year, even then, I still might not be able to afford it.
Quote from: Becky on Thu 08/11/2007 11:21:14
I think that applies very much to the health service here as well. Underpaid, underappreciated, and overworked.
Where's "here?"
Quote from: Becky on Thu 08/11/2007 09:26:23
The NHS is totally free except for the £6.50 prescription fee for every item of medication you get prescribed.
Which is waived for children, old people, those with chronic illnesses (like diabetes), pregnant women, women who have had a baby recently, people with low incomes and possibly soon people who live in Scotland.
There are of course problems inherent with any service that is provided for free at the point of delivery: you'll get a lot more time-wasters than if they had to pay for it, but that is unavoidable. Nominal charges often avoid this problem.
As for dental care, it is subsidised but not free (apart from check-ups) for most people... except that many dentists refuse to take NHS customers so you may have to travel miles to get the subsidised treatment.
"Here" is the UK, or more specifically, England, as there are as I mentioned variations about the country.
Netherlands too, paying about 75 euro for full coverage (maximum). It's cheaper because if you sign up through your university or company's insurance company, you get a group discount (dunno how to translate the original term properly, discount'll have to do).
My experiences with the health care system include time spent in hospital, simple operations and emergency stuff, and I'm 100% content so far. There haven't been any cockups, everything is clean and of high quality, the staff has been entirely helpful and polite in all cases, and no bullshit insurance mistake malarky either.
I have no complaints myself, though a couple of mistakes have been made when my grampa was still alive but sliding ever so getly into death. He was hard on his way to becoming demented, and his heart was failing. The bastard doctors convinced him one-on-one to accept a pacemaker, lengthening his life a year, in which he assaulted my grandmother and mother, had a total breakdown and spent the last couple of weeks of his life entirely unhappy and wanting to die in an old folk's home for demented people. Locked up, devoid of family and memories.
Now that's something I find hard to forgive.
Quote from: Becky on Thu 08/11/2007 11:21:14
I think that applies very much to the health service here as well. Underpaid, underappreciated, and overworked.
Exactly, I have got nothing more to add.
Ugh, don't get me started. I live in Northern Ireland. As has been said before, healthcare is free for the most part, though most people have to pay £6.50 for prescriptions (I do). It may be just the area I'm in, but the few times I've gone seeking healthcare, it has not been a good experience (and I hate doctors, so I'm usually in bad shape when I do).
I suffer from migraines, for so long now that I can't even remember when they started. Every time I visited the doctor, I was just prescribed increasingly stronger painkillers. No attempt to diagnose or treat the cause, just threw some pills at me. Now painkillers do diddly squat for me, because I've built up such a resistance to them. Only thing that works is heavy duty migraine tablets and they just knock me out, so a bit useless really.
My more recent experience has been extremely aggravating. I injured my arm at work, tennis elbow. I have been fobbed off with sick lines and anti-inflammatory painkillers(which do nothing) for 4 months. Any time I've needed to make an appointment, I've needed to do so at least a week in advance, though if its something urgent you might get one late the next day if you're lucky. Since rest wasn't helping, I was sent for an x-ray. It took 2 weeks for me to get an appointment, which for some reason was in the next town, despite the fact we have a bloody great big hospital in the town I live in. And it took a further two weeks to get the results back. I was advised against trying physiotherapy as the waiting lists are so long (and the doc doesn't believe the injury is chronic and will just go away in its own time). So now I'm waiting for an appointment for steroid injection treatment, which I highly doubt is effective as they try to make it out to be. So I'm very frustrated, and stir crazy at this point.
My basic impression of the health service: there are so many people abusing it, coming in for every little sniffle, that the general response to everything is 'wait and see'. Hoping it will go away on its own so they don't have to anything. In fact, on a couple of occasions, by the time I've been able to get an appointment, whatever is ailing me has sorted itself out. I don't think I've ever been to an appointment that wasn't late (was waiting nearly an hour once). Its a shambles, it really is.
Bitter, moi? Never. ;)
P.S. Despite the tone of my post, a fair few health care employees do seem to be very dedicated to their work, they are just extremely overworked. And with so many charlatans wasting their time, its inevitable that the people who are really sick may not get the attention they deserve. Personally though, I'd rather wait longer for an appointment if it meant I was going to be taken seriously.
I am from Slovenia , hehe mentioned in Sicko :).
The health care is not that bad (or strange :) ) as shown in the documentary :)
If you get hit by a truck for example you get cared no matter what.
About payment, 74 € is taken from the salary (i think it depends on how much you get) that should take care for your basic needs as citizen.
But it is good to pay extra to ensurance companiy (about 4.5€). So all your basic prescriptions are free of charge.
(like antibiotics...) and all needed operations procedures are free too.
All sick days (if you have a job but can't work) are paid 75% of total salary (something like that).
Eye "laser corection operation" is about 1050 € per eye.
Pregnant women can stay at home 1 year and get 75 % or even 100%( not tottaly sure) of tottaly salary.
... something liek that----
Basic healthcare is free in Ireland, if you have a Medical Card. Explaining how to get one means explaining how a convoluted system of means-based assesment is used to determine if you are eligible, so I'll try to simplify: The unemployed and disabled are more or less guaranteed one. If you work, but earn under a certain amount, you may also be eligible for one.
An OAP, say, with a minimal pension, whose son/daughter still lives with them, and that son/daughter earns over the means limit; that OAP won't get a card.
Without a Medical Card, a visit to the doctor costs fifty euro. Any medication he/she prescribes also has to be paid for, in full.
With a card, you pay for nothing.
But...
Doctors have the right to opt out of the Medical Card scheme, and certain drugs and such are exempt from cover.
Without insurance, hospitals put you on the long finger and waiting periods for operations or tests are far longer. Card patients would be sent to "lesser" hospitals and clinics, and specialists and high-level doctors would delegate their assistant to deal with such cases.
It's all bollocks really.
CANADA:
Health care is free, but extras like dentistry, optometry, prescription drugs all cost the consumer. You could buy health insurance for these -and many people get it through their work place if they work for the government or a large company -but it is not mandatory.
And now for my actual experiences: :P
In my opinion the abilities of the health system are grossly inflated. There seems to be this pervasive myth that doctors actually know what their talking about and can accurately diagnose illnesses. The only effective health care I've had has been in the form of vaccinations and stitches, and I'm not entirely convinced that I couldn't have done a better job of them myself -I still can't feel the tops of two right fingers because of sloppy stitching of a childhood injury. And the number of misdiagnosed illnesses among my friends and family -several leading to death -does not instill in me a great faith in the medical profession. For me the medical profession will be a last resort to turn to, but I don't have high expectations.
-Baron
SOVIET AMERIKAA:
WHERE MEDICINE MAKES YOU!
I actually have had very few experiences with the American health care system aside from routine shots, check-ups, etc. despite having spent the majority* of my 19 years here.
I have had plenty of second-hand experience with my mother. It has been about 5 or 6 years since my mom first got injured while working as an aircraft mechanic. She suffered permanent nerve damage (at least partially due to "Workers' Comp" refusing the necessary procedures) in her back which still causes her pain to this day. More recently (the beginning of October) she had surgery to have her gall bladder removed. The hospital she first went to for surgery botched it and so only 3 days later she was back. They gave her more pain medication and sent her home again. The very next day she went to a different (larger) hospital where she learned that she was leaking bile all throughout her abdomen and had she waited another 48 hours she would have been dead. The doctors who originally did the surgery told her to wait at least 48 hours before coming back.
Recently I myself have had cause to explore this wonderful American
"make sure the rich stay rich and the poor stay poor"-scheme endeavour. Unfortunately I too have found it in the realm of "Workers' Comp". For those who don't know what I'm talking about, Worker's Compensation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worker%27s_compensation) is supposed to cover medical expenses tied to work-related injuries. "Supposed to." Years of corrupt lawyers as well as pricks who just want to sue their employers for more money instead have completely jeopardized this system however.
The current implementation of Workers' Comp (at least in Texas) is such as this:
Provide approval for minimalistic procedures. Keep the employee alive, but do nothing further. Later, contest that the injury was work-related at all and refuse to pay. A bit of an exaggeration perhaps...but not much.
Back to
my story though, long story short: I work in the automotive department at the local Wal-Mart (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wal-Mart) and Thursday, 1 November a hydraulic car lift was lower onto my foot. The closest I could find image-wise is this:
(http://www.trackhoist.com/rishi.jpg)
Though our lifts don't have the scissor design. Nor do we ever raise them that high in the air. ;)
X-rays revealed that the lift did in fact break my "big toe" on my right foot (it was lowered across my toes, not "onto my foot" per se). My first broken bone, w00t! :-\ The hospital told me to follow up with an orthopedic surgeon in a week. The problem is that making the appointment with said surgeon was left to me. Rather, the problem is that
I don't have the say as to whether or not the appointment can be made. Because I am dealing with Workers' Comp on this, it is up to my claims adjuster to provide the surgeon the authority (insurance of payment) to see me. Unfortunately it seems that my claims adjuster is taking some type of vacation of some sort because even when I have tried to call myself (during her normal business hours as indicated by her answering machine) I have failed to even reach her.
Meanwhile I was released back to work (light-duty) on Monday which works out nicely considering that 1) for a large portion of the time I am in a reasonable amount of pain and 2) the pain relievers prescribed to me don't actually alleviate the pain, they put me to sleep (3) over-the-counter pain meds don't work either). So I'm forced to work in pain because if I do take my medicine I'd fall asleep, and then I'd probably be fired for sleeping on the job.
So that is
my experiences with the health care system.
*Yes, I said majority, and I meant majority. I was born in West Germany, though U.S. Air Force bases and discontinued countries don't count for too much.
I'm very happy with it. I live in the south east of england, I never have to wait more than a day for an appointment, my GPs are very lovely.... I've never been to a hospital here though (no need to yet).
I'm also happy with dentists here, though I've heard lots of bad things... I've never had to wait too long for an appointment, didn't have trouble signing up with a clinic even though I'd never been to a dentist before in my life (I've heard tales about them not accepting patients who haven't been in along time as they'll need a lot of dentistry work done... incidentally I needed no work done). They were very kind, patient and also affordable.
I'm very happy with the healthcare system in the UK. I'm very disturbed by the american healthcare system though.
Having recently watched SiCKO as well, I have to say I found it really quite shocking.
I'd always assumed that in America, if you didn't have health insurance then you were screwed, but if you did have insurance then you got the best healthcare in the world. Having seen the film and the way that the health insurance companies act like, well, insurance companies, I'm more convinced than ever that a state-run health system is the way it should be. Nobody should have to choose which finger to reattach, or have to phone their insurance company after a car crash before being allowed treatment.
As others have said, here in the UK the health system is far from perfect, but at least I know that when I need it I can get treatment without worrying about the cost or the fact that I don't have health insurance. Yes, there are long waiting lists for some operations -- when I had a hernia, I had to wait 9 months for the operation to repair it. But it wasn't a life-threatening problem and I didn't have to pay a penny to get it done.
QuoteWhat are taxes and national debt like in England? In the film, he only talks about France having equivalent taxes to the US but they certainly don't have an equivalent war machine. Britain, I would suspect, is a better standard to measure against.
This was one of the dubious points in the film -- he interviews a single well-off French family as if to somehow prove that French taxes were low, which just doesn't make sense... he could have found a rich family in any country to make that "point".
Yes, European taxes are higher than the US, because we have to support the social systems via tax. Here in the UK, the standard tax rate is 30%, and approximately 20% of the taxes collected are spent on the health system. That means that effectively I pay 6% of my monthly wage as "health insurance", which seems fair to me.
How much does private health insurance cost in the US as a comparison?
My father is a doctor. Retired from the university but still active as a doctor.
And we were discussing various issues, and he was talking about how hard it is to change something bad to good, and how easy it is to corrupt something good to make it awful.
This is what he told me (can't verify if it's true or not, but I'm ready to bet it is. My daddy told me ;D). FDA (http://www.fda.gov/) is the organisation, in the States, that deals with making sure drugs are effective and with no sideffects. Up until very recently it was the best org in the world, and there were draconian tests (which took years to complete) to make sure that every drug in the market was as safe as possible.
Certainly this was a problem for the drugs lobby. So... since the drugs were already out, in other parts of the world, the companies started complaining, on behalf of the patients, that they need the drugs, especially in heavy cases, cancer, AIDS, etc. "The drug is there, why don't they give it to us?" Very effective way to put pressure on.
But in order for FDA to speed up the process, they need much more personel, which means a huge budget. Under realtively new law, the funding for this extra personel comes from the drug companies!
Nice huh? :( (He's not seen sicko yet, but he will when he gets back to Greece)
Quote from: Pumaman on Sat 10/11/2007 20:33:12
QuoteWhat are taxes and national debt like in England? In the film, he only talks about France having equivalent taxes to the US but they certainly don't have an equivalent war machine. Britain, I would suspect, is a better standard to measure against.
This was one of the dubious points in the film -- he interviews a single well-off French family as if to somehow prove that French taxes were low, which just doesn't make sense... he could have found a rich family in any country to make that "point".
Yes, European taxes are higher than the US, because we have to support the social systems via tax. Here in the UK, the standard tax rate is 30%, and approximately 20% of the taxes collected are spent on the health system. That means that effectively I pay 6% of my monthly wage as "health insurance", which seems fair to me.
How much does private health insurance cost in the US as a comparison?
The standard tax rate in the US is about 30%, when you combine Federal/State/Local taxes. It's a proven fact that if you feed money into the country, no matter where it goes, it helps the economy. Rather than feed it into education and medicine the US feeds it to the military machine and claims taxes would have to go up to get socialized medicine.
Private health insurance for a young (20s) single healthy man such as myself costs $100 a month, with $100 extra being subsidized by my employer (after one year of employment), so that's $200 a month. I think it only covers expenses up to $50k though and has lots of exclusions for pre-existing conditions and certain types of injury. The deductible (amount to be paid by the injured) was pretty high, like $500. So it only covers pretty major/expensive stuff and you're always out $500. For a whole family adequate insurance can be as high as $1k a month. The charges, deductibles, maximum awards, etc all vary by plan of course.
I can't forget the quote by Nixon in the film, it was something like since the motivation was for profit no BS or minor health issues would make it through, so the incentive was in the right direction, rather than everything being checked out because medical service was free. It gave me this sick feeling inside.
I didn't mention my experiences with the health industry which have been all standard shots, etc. My dad had good insurance when I was a kid and I never had to worry. Since I've been on my own I've had two workplace injuries that were both covered entirely by my employer's accident insurance plans. I went to doctors immediately and never had problems. Both had follow-up appointments. One was to remove some shrapnel from my eye and one was stitches for a major cut on my knuckle.
Quote from: Raggit on Thu 08/11/2007 05:48:17
What country do you live in?
What is your experience with and opinion of your healthcare system?
Do you find your clinics and hospitals organized and efficient, or are there people waiting for weeks and months to get in?
What is the price of public healthcare, and is it worth it?
Any input on this topic will be greatly appreciated. :D
Italy. An italian citizen pays around 50% or more (sic) of what we earn in an year to feed the government machine (that includes all sort of taxes: VAT, Capital Gain, excises, income etc.).
Healt care is mostly free for all, but things like dentistry, optometry, prescription drugs ar paid by the consumer either because they're not covered or because the waiting time is too long.
The quality of the service varies between Regione and Regione (= land administrative denomination, like State in the Us or Lander in Deutschland). Some of them offers top notch technology, some others have found to have poorly trained personnel or even dangerous medical machinery. That do not affect the overall quality, because if you will undergo a cure treatment that is not available in your place you can move in another without any additional costs other than the trip's expenses (but it obviously affect the government balance as it has to pay a sort "double" fee, one to feed that Regione hospitals and then another one for actually getting the job done).
Both my parents suffered from cancer (colon and prostate). Mother's surgery was paid by the state, Father chose a Private Clinic to avoid the long waiting list (his prostate cancer is something not impossible to cure in the first stages of the disease but if you don't act promptly it can lead to serious damage to your body, he did not want to risk).
It's difficult to compare to other countries. I wish I could met a well off american with a solid insurance and ask him how different are the cures/services between here and there. I feel the vast majority of italian people feel proud to have a National Healt System and are willing to pass through some longhis waiting lines without any problem as far as the service at no or small cost.
Saw Sicko, didn't like it very much (I frankly felt it described an edulcorated situation when talking about national healt in europe / from an aesthetical point of view I don't think he is talented: i prefer much more Errol Morris ). This quiet thread is probably more frank and sincere in reporting the various pluses and minuses of each system.
Quote from: bicilotti on Sun 11/11/2007 09:02:28
It's difficult to compare to other countries. I wish I could met a well off american with a solid insurance and ask him how different are the cures/services between here and there. I feel the vast majority of italian people feel proud to have a National Healt System and are willing to pass through some longhis waiting lines without any problem as far as the service at no or small cost.
The American system has terrible doctors and good doctors.. only they're sorted by hospital and price, so the health care can be top notch or it can suck pretty bad. In my hometown (Muskogee, OK, USA) lots of people when being loaded into an ambulance request to be taken to Tulsa, OK because it's a bigger city with better hospitals and they don't want to die. Of course not everyone who goes into Muskogee hospital dies, but they definitely don't have the same recovery rates as the best hospitals in Tulsa.
But basically, I don't have health insurance and pretty much everywhere is out of my price range. So with this "better" system our politicians (supported by the medical lobby) claim we have, the rich have excellent health care and the poor/middle class have mediocre or none. Even while paying for insurance health care still costs (deductibles) because the insurance companies don't want you going for treatment too often.
So the question is, is having better health care for the rich worth sacrificing the health care for everyone else? Our politicians, who are very rich, say yes.
Quote from: shbaz on Sun 11/11/2007 16:48:31
So the question is, is having better health care for the rich worth sacrificing the health care for everyone else? Our politicians, who are very rich, say yes.
Forgive me if I am too bold, but a question arises in my mind. I am not an US citizen and I've just few friends in the US, so maybe what I'm writing here is total rubbish.
US are an advanced democracy that place a powerful weapon in the hands of their citizen: the vote. Your vote is quite "strong" if compared to the one in force in Italy. We, for example, vote for our MPs but we cannot vote directly for out President: that leaves some really important decision in the hands of the elected and, sometimes, their interests do not coincide tho the ones of the voters.
You can directly vote for your president and the short time between one election and another (4 years president, 2 years mid term and some other short term for the election of the senate's members, if I am not mistaken). That leaves me puzzled: if you don't really like it why vote for someones who likes it?
Powerful lobbies are operating all around the world, not only in the US, but I feel no one can be so powerful to influence the feelings of the voters in such an important and serious decision.
In so many words, I feel that if there is not a National Healt System in the US is because the citizen of US (overall) do
not love it. Far from me to tell if that is a good policy or a bad one, just wanted to know if what I think is right or not.
Oh please, don't get me started on that. Corporations pay for campaigns, which draw voters. Voters hear what the media tells them and the media will not run stories unfavorable to the corporations who support them by ad revenue.
These corporations include the medical insurance companies, who are extremely powerful.
Quote from: bicilotti on Sun 11/11/2007 21:53:00
Quote from: shbaz on Sun 11/11/2007 16:48:31
So the question is, is having better health care for the rich worth sacrificing the health care for everyone else? Our politicians, who are very rich, say yes.
Forgive me if I am too bold, but a question arises in my mind. I am not an US citizen and I've just few friends in the US, so maybe what I'm writing here is total rubbish.
US are an advanced democracy that place a powerful weapon in the hands of their citizen: the vote. Your vote is quite "strong" if compared to the one in force in Italy. We, for example, vote for our MPs but we cannot vote directly for out President: that leaves some really important decision in the hands of the elected and, sometimes, their interests do not coincide tho the ones of the voters.
You can directly vote for your president and the short time between one election and another (4 years president, 2 years mid term and some other short term for the election of the senate's members, if I am not mistaken). That leaves me puzzled: if you don't really like it why vote for someones who likes it?
Powerful lobbies are operating all around the world, not only in the US, but I feel no one can be so powerful to influence the feelings of the voters in such an important and serious decision.
In so many words, I feel that if there is not a National Healt System in the US is because the citizen of US (overall) do not love it. Far from me to tell if that is a good policy or a bad one, just wanted to know if what I think is right or not.
We do not vote directly for the president exactly.. we vote through the electoral college system, so if your state is heavily dominated by one party or the other, your vote will end up meaning nothing. Additionally, most campaigns for any reform is heavily funded against by interest groups determined to confuse you with skewed logic and outright lies/exaggerations. Since people tend to be afraid of change, things don't change.
The U.S. has become too big to have a cohesive community. It is incredibly fractured and huge,so it is very very difficult for things to change, which works perfectly into the politicians' hands.
My wife has 3 months worth of medical coverage after giving birth and then it goes up to $1000 a month for the 3 of us(including baby). We still have copays and pay $10-30 per 30 days worth of prescriptions. She is a teacher.