The Matrix - POST ALL MATRIX-RELATED DISCUSSION HERE

[LGM]

Actually, if you watch Matrix Revisted.. The whole series was planned from the get-go.. This wasn't some "oo, we made money, let's make a sequel!"

It may have turned into a franchise now, which is sad... But the fact that everyone thinks it was made just because the first made money is even sadder. The Matrix and Reloaded are not directly connected, because all the animatrix stuff happens in-between.. Which explains the annoying kid and other stuff that might not make sense. Basically, what I'm trying to say is that it's all planned out, and I trust the brothers with what they're doing with this.

I agree that it IS a bit stupid to force everyone to buy the Animatrix and the Video game just to make sense of it all.. But I give them credit for it as a nice gimmick of cross-media story telling. It's original, gotta give em' that.

Meh, only true Matrix fans will watch/play it all.. The rest will just bitch about how "shitty" the Matrix has become. So now you know when to tell.

I respect everyone's opinion, each to his own. Not trying to insult anyone or sound like an ass. But.. well, yeah.. I'm done talking now.

[evenwolf]

"only true Matrix fans will watch/play it all.. The rest will just bitch about how "shitty" the Matrix has become"

Allow me to quote myself, as riduculous it may sound:

LGM, please quit bunching "The Matrix" and "Reloaded" as if they are the same entity.    The movie the "Matrix" stood alone on its own.

It seems to me I am clearly stating I am a fan of "The Matrix" and not of the series.  Am I somehow hiddenly claiming to be a bigger fan of the series than you?  No. I'm saying the first film is all that will be remembered years from now- as revolutionary perhaps.  

If you say you watched the first and second films back to back, can you deny a change in style did not take place? That the first one was so much darker than the second, and that its amazing visual effects were done for the most part in real time?  Surely you took note that the second cheated in places the first did not.  Take character development for one.   Sure, we already know the main characters- but who the hell are these new people? the keymaker? He has perhaps four lines and half the movie is about rescuing him so he can help some people he's never even seen before get through one damn door in the big building downtown.  All this symbolic shit is nothing new,  and it wasn't in the first movie- but in the first it was made special by the framing device they used.  And the subtle mix of fighting, techno, and dialogue.  "Reloaded" was overkill, and that effected other aspects of the movie.   Neo as superman was stupid, at no point did I ever fear that he would get harmed, so the fights were meaningless.  Just admit that much, that this movie was different in a bad way.  

[Dmitri]

this is slightly off topic, but Id like to say that the animatrix is quite good, "the second renaissance" almost makes me ashamed to call myself human.

I guess my point in saying that was that while the movies have jumped the shark, at least the spin-offs still have true matrix elements.


The movie really wasted time.

--SPOILER--

this is how it went

Fight scene - dancing - fight scene - little plot revealed - Agent smith fight - French guy - exploding vagina - kiss thing - little more plot (if you can call getting the keymaker plot) - fight scene - highway scene with dreadlock guys- Morpheus vs. Smith - the mission (plot) - explosions and general action scene - smith in hallway fight- Colonel Sanders pops up claiming he's 'the architect' PLOT!! (some shite about neo's decision) - Neo saves trinity - "twist" ending.

--More spoilers--

There were 6 fight scenes. 2 general action and explosion scenes. 4 general waste scenes (counting the french guy, he didn't DO anything). and two scenes which actually progressed the movie. the rest was all setting the stage for matrix 3.

6 fight scenes!! and they went for soo long too... I mean sure, matrix 1 had fight scenes, but those fights had purpose, for instance, the morpheus vs. neo fight in m1 was about neo training his mind to conquer the matrix. The fight in m2 before the oracle talk was simply senseless violence. Why the hell did they fight? And that lame semi-philosophical excuse afterwards was simply weak; and then the agent Smith fight... why the hell didn't neo just fly away when he saw the extra copies? There was no need to go around flinging smith's everywhere.

And what the hell was that kiss thing with the french guy's woman? These questions were provided with answers, but those answers were so lame that I can safely say that the matrix reloaded severely jumped the shark. I can only hope that the writers of this movie get their acts together for no.3

[Punch]

Man... I love the way your spoiler glosses vaguely over the movie and then the rest of the post goes about explaining things in detail And that colonel Sanders bit was hellarious. That's exactly who he was!

Back to Even's thing, I noticed a huge shift in style as well. The first movie was very much into exploring the ideas of the Matrix through the special effects, and the sequal was pretty much 'Hey, look what I can do!'

I still liked it. It was enough random action to keep me interested and there were some cool ideas. i think that's what I like most about the whole Matrix thing, they have a lot of cool ideas which they don't always express perfectly or succinctly, but are still good none the less.

The fight scenes were a little dissapointing because I watch martial arts movies a lot (Jet Li, Jackie Chan, Chow Yun Fat, so on and so forth) and the Matrix scenes seemed a little weak in comparison. You can tell that the actors weren't as skilled. And then they break into 'fancy' special effects to cover it.

--SPOILER--

What the hell was the architect saying? I understood most of it, but exactly why to they need to keep destroying Zion and The One and then building both of them again? How does having a group of rebels that no-one in the Matrix knows about keep everyone believing in the programmed reality?

And what about the ending? Do you reckon there might be levels to The Matrix? All Thirteenth-floor like?

I understand that people think some over analyse the films, but if they put 'philosophical' content in there then they have it coming. And it still interests me.

--End Spoiler--

- Punch

[DGMacphee]

So, I gather no one is going to see Whale Rider or Charlotte Sometimes or Blue Car?

[Dmitri]

Punch: heh, whoopsidaisy... I'll fix the post accordingly. Anyway, I can't take the glory for the colonal sanders joke, the author of dragon-tails came up with it in one of his rants. It was too funny NOT to steal

[Eero]

Now I have seen Matrix Reloaded, and I can definitely say, that both parts were good, but 1st one was better...

[evenwolf]

All of us in the theatre made the joke that the guy looked like Col. Sanders on wednesday.   However, I would guess the Architect is supposed to look more like Sigmund Freud than anyone.  And yes, Freud looks a bit like the Colonel.

Punch- I'm not going to whine about the scene where "everything" is explained because folks will just tell me to wait for the sequel and spend another $8. (Not to mention they pathetically put the disclaimer in his dialogue that "some of this may not make sense to your puny mind").  But all I figure is that it was impossible to make everyone accept the Matrix- so in order to have some sort of unity- those who reject it have to be given a choice.. like that Sypher guy who went back in, and Neo who took the pill to escape.  I'm betting later on we see that by beating up agents and pulling people out, Morpheus and the others are actually furthering the Matrix along and not hurting it at all.

But the explanation was way lame and I'd like to see them clear it up in the threequel.  However I'm fairly sure the most thought provoking revelations have already taken place.

[MillsJROSS]

I saw it a couple of days ago. It met my expectations. Which was, it would be a fun action movie where my brain wouldn't be forced to think. It killed a couple of hours. There were a few flaws, neo's CG fight scenes did look just that, and it was annoying. There are tons more I could easily point out, but I expected as much. The first movie, as it stands alone, was very fun. The second one was fun, too.

If I had annalyzed the movie there was no way I could have enjoyed it. My brain hadalready shut down as the trailors came on, and didn't come back on until I had left the theater.

-MillsJROSS

[evenwolf]

But see, now is the time to analyze it- not while you watch it. Like that guy teaches how to speed read books. Don't think when you experience, just think back and in retrospect- what did you get out of it?  For me I remember little but punch-punch, one liner, one liner.   I do admire that they had less gun fights this time around and focused more on hand to hand.  There was almost a "use your mind, not your sidearm" message in this flick, but why would a super man use a gun anyhow?

[MrColossal]

how come l33t haxxors in CS can headshot me through 3 boxes while they are blind and using an MP5 but the agents couldn't hit the broadside of a barn door?

someone needs to get those agents an aim bot

STFU fag newb,
eric OMFG

[Las Naranjas]

especially since most of the gun fights were against ordinary people who thought they were just being responsible security guards.

[Bionic Bill]

if the matrices have taught me anything, it's to feel sorry for security guards. i mean, how would YOU like to go to work every day thinking you were doing the right thing only to be slaughtered by the time-bending kung fu good guys? every day! guh!

oh, and i think from now on unexplainable atrocities in filmmaking should be reffered to as "exploding vagina." ex. "The plight of security guards in the matrix films is an exploding vagina."

[DGMacphee]

HARHARHARHARHARHARHAR BOOM! (falls off chair)

Forget exploding vaginas, have a look what I found on IMDB:

'Matrix' Director's Dominatrix Lover?

Publicity-shy The Matrix Reloaded director Larry Wachowski left his wife of 15 years following an affair with a dominatrix. Larry, 37, appeared at the Cannes Festival premiere of Matrix Reloaded with 36-year-old blonde Karin Winslow last week. Wachowski - who writes and directs the hit movies with brother Andy Wachowski - is reported to have left his wife Thea after hiring Winslow's services, leaving her transsexual husband fuming. Jake Miller, estranged husband of Winslow, is now alleging in British newspaper The Mail On Sunday that Larry is a cross-dresser who ran off with his wife. He says, "He stole my wife from me and he crossed over the boundaries. I'm not saying I'm a saint, but I am telling the truth. Larry Wachowski is living a lie. He has been cross-dressing for years and everybody knows it. But in Hollywood, money talks. And if you are the director of a hit like The Matrix, you can get away with anything. I hope Larry is man enough to hear what I am saying and to come out and admit who - or what - he is. I want people to know the truth. When Larry walked down the red carpet with my wife, he was probably wearing a bra and panties under his suit."


I'm not one to spread malicious gossip, but...

HARHARHARHARHARHARHARHARHAR!!!!

[remixor]

Oh, I don't know.  I should think that terms like "exploding vagina" would become even more relevant in light of such news...


How bizarre, btw.  

[Las Naranjas]

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/05/19/1053196525466.html

[remixor]

THAT's what I'm talking about, Las.  The so called "allegory" of the Matrix is some of the most blatantly contrived rubbish I've seen on film.  It's almost comical.

[DGMacphee]

I agree with that.

If you really want to go for spiritual understanding, watch Scorsese films instead.

His Last Temptation of Christ was a brilliant alternative story of Christ with very deep symbolic references -- It was also based on the book by Nikos Kazantzakis and both were banned by the Church (because one scene showed a hallucination of Christ where he dreamed of making love to Mary Magdelene)

It's the only Jesus movie I'd recommend.

Also, Scorsese did Kundan -- a movie about the life of the 14th Dalai Lama's and his exile to India.

Scorsese once said he was either going to be a priest or a filmmaker.

Other very spiritual movies:

Sling Blade -- Despite what you may think about him, Billy Bob Thornton crafted and extraordinary tale of redemption in this movie.

Brainstorm -- A company develops a device for recording the five senses. One of the scientists (Lousie Fletcher) dies but records what happens after death. Her work partner recovers the film to find out what happens.

Ghandi -- Saw this again recently. Not only a good political movie, but wonderfully critical look of all religions.

One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest -- R.P McMurphy beats Neo anytime as a Christ-like figure.

The Exorcist -- Many religious allusions: the nature of evil, the impact of religion upon women, etc, etc.

The Last Details -- Everyone knows this is my favourite movie and it contains some great spiritual meanings -- Go rent it out and see for yourself.

On The Waterfront -- Loaded with spiritual meaning.

Captains Corageous -- Likewise.

There are plenty more, but these spring to mind.

Although I liked the Matrix a lot, I think these films have far greater spiritual meaning to them.

I would pick any of them over the Matrix as far as spiritual references go.

[Trapezoid]

Don't forget the classic "Ernest Finds His Soul"

[Las Naranjas]

The religious allusions in NGE are also done purposefully and meaningfully.