The possibility of ghosts existing proved with physics!

[Tuomas]

Hear this people, and do not close your eyes for openness is a virtue.

While studying modern physics we came across this great invention called the spectrum of the hydrogen atom. Now we all know that the light visible for man is within the wavelength from 380-760Hz/nm. Spectrum means
Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  A. The distribution of energy emitted by a radiant source, as by an incandescent body, arranged in order of wavelengths.
Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  B. The distribution of atomic or subatomic particles in a system, as in a magnetically resolved molecular beam, arranged in order of masses.
(free from a dictionary)Ã, 
Or to those who aren't so good at English
Thus the rainbow is a visual phenomenon called scattering where the white light, containing all the wavelengths of visible light, reflects from the front to the back of a drop of water and then again from the front as such:

Now what has this to do with hydrogen atoms? As all we know, some materia can emit spacific wavelength of light while others can absorb it. This would mean that if you sent the whole spectrum to say through some materia in the form of gas, the gas would absorb the wavelengths it cannot emit.
in this one there's no gas, but from top to bottom
1. Diamond(cape)
2. Diamond(with 540nm abrobtionline)
3. Ruby
4. Spinel (red)
5. Emerald
The black lines on each horizontal line stand for the wavelenghts that the certain minerals do not emit.

This phenomenon can also take place in other occasions such as the following. once the electron is charged it will move to an outer shell, and then immidiately return to it's position releasing it's energy in waves in spectrums.

In 1885 A Swiss mathematician Johann Palmer noticed, that the equation for hydrogen atom's spectrum, or better, the lines could be written as 1/λ = R_H(1/2²-1/m²,Ã,  m=3,4,5,... Where as we all know, the R_H is the Rydberg constantfor hydrogen.
The black lines are MOSTLY located within the wavelengths of visible light. But, as later was noticed, some or them are located within those of both infrared and ultraviolet. Once we add those, we get: 1/λ = R_H(1/n²-1/m²), n=1,2,3,...; m=n+1, n+2,...
Where the series within UV is named after Lyman, n=1, m=2,3,...; the visible light after Balmer, n=2, m=3,4,...; and the IR area- after Paschen, n=3, m=4,5,...; all by their founders.

Finally, these Paschen and Lyman series can in some very rare cases be seen to some people who are even more scarce. Meaning, that in some very obscure occasions some people may be anle to see things that are not visible to others. Now this goes for hydrogen. Suppose ghosts are not hydrogen, but some materia unfamiliar to us, yet. This however counts out the accusations we tend to make to those who claim they have seen a ghost, because we cannot prove they are lying, in fact, we can hereby prove they have seen something.

On these bases we could analyze a story written in the NY Times few days ago:

A New Home, Not Quite Vacated

By SUSAN MILLAR PERRY
Published: October 30, 2005

It began much like any classic horror story: an unsuspecting couple fall in love with a classic six with two bedrooms in a 1912 Blum Brothers building. It was a tumbledown wreck, of course, with cracked plaster everywhere, a creaky old kitchen and only one working bathroom, out of three. But my husband, David Perry, and I were won over by the glorious sprawl of rooms, with the bonus of original crown moldings, wainscoted walls and 10-foot ceilings.

In addition, the living room fireplace, adorned with Grueby Arts and Crafts tiles, was a gem. This was a palace compared with our one-bedroom two floors up, which we had so obviously outgrown since our son was born. And as luck would have it, not only the price was right - so was the timing, because we had a buyer for our place.

The fact that the big, vintage apartment had never fallen victim to a cheesy renovation had a simple explanation: In close to a century, only one family of renters had ever lived there. In fact, the last of the clan, the 90-year-old Mr. Schwab, the only name we knew him by, had peacefully died just weeks before in the master bedroom. My husband and I knew Mr. Schwab, a kindly, dapper man, with his signature trench coat and Camel dangling from his mouth.

Ã,  Ã, - A cliché, we know that... as you might have noticed, the writer was indeed the owner of the house, hardly in need of the money from publicity she gets according to the pictures of the house.

The building gossip was that he had been a spy for the United States during World War II. We kept thinking of that as we cleaned out piles of Nazi memorabilia from one of the nonfunctioning bathrooms, which he had used as a sort of giant filing cabinet, before we could forge ahead, painting, plastering and renovating the kitchen in order to move in.

I was more perturbed than understanding of our dog Bailey's reluctance to visit the job site. Bailey, normally an inquisitive retriever, refused to set one paw in the place, forcing us to drag him in by the leash.

Then our superintendent, who was clipping along nicely doing all the painting and plastering at night on his off hours, suddenly told us he would work in the apartment only during the daytime. That meant weekends, at a much slower pace. He never quite gave us a full explanation, just muttering something about hearing strange sounds and having a few too many accidental tumbles off his ladder.

It was only after we moved in that I knew that the apartment - or rather someone who used to live there - was trying to communicate with us, and not in the friendliest of ways. My husband, looking white as a proverbial ghost as he climbed into bed one night, told me that he had just been pushed while brushing his teeth.

As you see, this was a long story, which you can only read once you have signed in for an online subscriber, that is why I will not link it here. But I shall, cut the most meaningless parts away.

"Oh, come on," I said in disbelief. "No, really," he continued, "like this," and he gave me quite a shove. A few days later he said he had felt the same invisible nudge as he was drifting off to sleep.

From then on, the barking began, usually around 3 a.m. With the fur on his back bristling to attention, Bailey was obviously guarding us against something, but what?
Ã,  Ã,  -They had to make the dog listen classical music in order to get him relaxed.

Just as the barking - and shoving - seemed to subside, I was awakened one night by my son's screams: "Mommy, Mommy, there's a man in my room!" I knew it wasn't the power of suggestion that had induced his terror, because my husband and I had never spoken of our visitor in front of Nick, who was then 5.

The next morning he wouldn't let it go. Over Cheerios and cocoa, our son described the man in his "nightmare," who sounded remarkably like Mr. Schwab. The man, he insisted, had stood at the foot of his bed, with outreached hands, ready to grab him. Could the vet be right, did our son and dog actually see dead people?
Ã,  Ã,  Ã, - Now here's something that my investigations back up well enough... And as it is universally known, aanimals hear, smell, and probably see more than we do... Do not forget that the older you get, the less colours you see. I could keep a lesson of this too, but I better spare you for now

Not long after that, we came home to an even more disturbing scene. Bailey, quivering and soaking wet, was skulking under a table, with his tail straight and stiffened between his legs. And there was a rushing sound - water, from the bathroom shower inexplicably turned at full blast. The water was scalding hot, and so steam had built up everywhere, even causing the plaster on part of the living room ceiling to splatter to the floor.
Ã,  Ã,  -Ã,  The house got Blessed, etc. etc. The woman consulted her friend:

she assured me that I could perform the exorcism quite easily myself. "The ghost likes your feminine energy," she said. "He's never bothered you, just your husband, son and male dog."

-She then tried some exsorcism. etc. etc. etc. blaa blaa talked to the ghost she wouldn't see, and he never harrassed them again.

(The chapters were mostly loaned from NY Times, not copied, thus I am not breaking any copyright laws, I'm merely referring to the subject)

Now I reckon once you have taken the time reading this utmost discovery, you wouldn't leave it uncommented, would you now? Either refer to my theory, what do yo uthink of it, or to the article I referred to.

[shitar]

Sorry but I really don't understand where you stated your theory or what any of those formulas mean. If I understand you are suggesting that a human dies and the energy turns into some kind of hydrogen gas which is the ghost? I really dont know much about the science of spirits and stuff like that.

[Tuomas]

Basically what I'm saying, is that "ghosts" as we know them, may not be something that we turn into, but merely some material we cannot see in most cases, which often gets the form of something familiar. Now that I think of it, all organic creatures reproduce their cells continuously. And as we do, the outer cells on our skin die, and fall. This means, that where ever we go, there are marks that we have been there. Sized as cells are, they will not be visible but through specific equipment.

Later on I started thinking: In every decomposing process is burning in variable froms, reacting with 0₂ to be exact. Now burning in most cases, if not all, produces amounts of hydrogen. Might it keep it's shape or then could the magnetic fields that surround us be transferred or perhaps the charge within the atoms stay, that is still unclear to me... must figure it out, thoug I think I don't have the equipment.

Anyway, there are some wavelengths that can be seen by some and not others, nor can they sometimes be seen with qualified equipment!

[edit]Due to complaining arguments and shallowminded people I am to appologise that I may have some spelling errors in the post, and thereby it isn't exact. Yet I ask you to even concider the theory before questioning it, because then you do not have anything to argue with, and I am not willing to argue with such people. Furthermore I will be willing to hear good arguments for and against me, such with which I can carry on further. Thank you[/edit]

[Fuzzpilz]

Hokum.

[Unilin]

No.

[Afflict]

Dude...

[MrColossal]

1. Is your post interesting, helpful or funny? If not, don't post it.

One word posts don't cut it, sorry.

As for your theory... I think the main question I have is, if there is this unknown material in the air, why is it conscious and "disturbing" the males in the house?

And why do animals always get attributed with psychic abilities?

I'm sure the Nazis had tons of dogs that roamed around concentration camps or in the showers and they never turned tail and wouldn't go in, if any place should be "haunted" you'd think it would be those places.

[veryweirdguy]

I'm willing to believe in any theory that has a Pink Floyd album cover!

...

I didn't read it all by the way.

...

But you could probably guess that.

[Gregjazz]

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php07455

Download the VSTi and read the readme, it's really good!!

[shbaz]

Do you even know what you're talking about? The hydrogen spectrum is easily analyzed because it's such a simple atom and only has one electron to jump orbitals. EVERY atom can emit light. What does this have to do with ghosts? You think that some yet undiscovered "ghost" atom emits light as well? Hmm.. well, we know every atom up to (and past) plutonium that won't decay in less than a second, and theoretically every one past the artificially created ones will decay too fast to practically stay around, so does this ghost atom have negative amounts of protons or what? Just so you know, antimatter explodes on contact with regular matter, so don't start that.

[Tuomas]

Shbaz I don't necessarily mean just hydrogen atoms, it's an example because it's easy to study

Iwon't be saying there necessarily was some materia we do not know of, but to think of it, if we don't know about it, there may even be. I know there are lots of things I don't know but they still exist...
And I know for true I believe, that for example hydrogen emits light different to what we normally see and some may be able to see it.

For those who want to hang me for being a pagan or so, I suggest you take this with a little bit of humour, personally, I think this makes sense, still  do not believe in ghosts myself. It's hard because I haven't seen one. And hey. there's this one rule up there MrColossal pointed out, I will ignore one wrod posts since they don't make you any more mature than what I am.

[Janik]

Your topic title intrigued me - I'm a Ph.D. Student in physics, so here's my "expert" opinion 

Later on I started thinking: In every decomposing process is burning in variable froms, reacting with 0₂ to be exact. Now burning in most cases, if not all, produces amounts of hydrogen.

No burning process I know produces hydrogen - H2 is highly combustible by itself. As was said before, almost anything can emit light if excited. Most of the time though, the electron returns to its former level and dissipates heat instead of light.

Anyway, there are some wavelengths that can be seen by some and not others, nor can they sometimes be seen with qualified equipment!

Well most people can see pretty much the same wavelengths (with apologies to the colorblind, who miss some). But light (electromagnetic waves) in general covers a HUGE breadth of possible wavelengths, many many times more than what we can see. We're talking from high-energy gamma rays to km-long radio waves.

So yes, the world can be seen in many different wavelengths, invisible to the human eye. Put a near infrared filter on a video camera (which are sensitive past visible to near infrared) and you will see things no human can see. Some night-vision systems work that way.

This, however, does not do much to prove or disprove ghosts. Basically, if a ghost is emitting light that humans can see, a camera would be able to pick it up. I've yet to see a convincing video of a ghost.

Yes, there is more to the world than meets the eye, but there's nothing supernatural about that

[Paper Carnival]

This is interesting, but I think that trying to see ghosts with the spectrum of the hydrogen atom is like trying to see God with a telescope.

[Tuomas]

Yes well, Janik, you see, if someone really is a Ph.D. he'd probably never waste his talent on something as useless as this. Though I remember seeing pictures with ghosts in them... Or not necessarely ghosts, things we reckon as ghost-like or even supernatural. But the might all be photoshopped or not. What I get from your post, is that it is not impossible for cameras to take pictures of such?

I only just realize Igot a little carried away with the O₂ thing, I first wrote H2O there but then thought of it, and changed it without thinking it through really... I don't see why this couldn't be, I mean, H2O has hydrogen in it, and occasionally it may be in some commection to what I'm saying... got to study deeper or forget it.

[Janik]

Yes well, Janik, you see, if someone really is a Ph.D. he'd probably never waste his talent on something as useless as this.

He he, I don't have the Ph.D yet. It kind of sounds like you doubt me, perhaps I'm just misreading you.

Though I remember seeing pictures with ghosts in them... Or not necessarely ghosts, things we reckon as ghost-like or even supernatural. But the might all be photoshopped or not. What I get from your post, is that it is not impossible for cameras to take pictures of such?

Yeah, I've seen some pictures too, but even without photoshop still pictures are kind of easy to fake. A video (plus some witnesses) would be harder to fake, but sometimes can be misinterpreted. I remember seeing a show called "proof positive" where a video of some strange lights was investigated. It didn't look like any human shape or anything, but it was kind of weird; the video expert showed it was just reflections in the lens of some of the light sources in the room. It wasn't fraud, but just misinterpreted.

[2ma2]

For not more than a couple of hundred years ago, electricity was regarded as witchcraft or bogus. Just because we don't have the tools to scientifically measure something does not mean it doesn't exist.

With those words, I'd still like to point out that I believe the usual "tricks" of catching ghosts on film or picture are baloney. What is troublesome is that we need to explain very abstract occurances, and the simplest way to do so is by making analogies to what we do know, which we don't know from the first place. Confusing? Yes..

It is basically religion, myths are tools to adress deep psychological aspects of human behaviour and life in comprehensible ways. Modern psychology succeeds in parts of these but fails in other. To give ghost the possible "unknown" materia thesis which reacts to light in unorthodox ways is to shoot yourself in the foot because first you must define "ghost" itself.

Does the soul constitute of this unknown materia, then what is the soul?

Since even materia is a form of energy (theory, not fact.. but on the other hand, everything we "know" are theories we havn't disproved yet), being that light manage to be particles and radiation at the same time, the so called ghost can be a vast range of possible, and completely scientific, phenomenons. Bodily echoes, subconscious manifestations of the psyche or even a glitch in time itself (making this "ghost" actually being a 90-years old LIVING man messing with "ghosts" in HIS appartment).

Now, your drop of physics is interesting, but still does not prove the existance of ghosts. Sadly, the established researchers are to convinced of the 'truth' that they've forgotten how false the truth is and disregard theories of the paranormal as bullcrap without adressing the matter from a scientific point of view. Hell, the occultists in late 15th century saw themselfs as scientists.

So basically, we can't YET prove the existance of ghosts without proving WHAT they are. And as far as I see, the thesis above gives a theory about HOW they may be, and not much more. But these HOWS may give us the WHAT later on.

[HydrogenGhost]

Speaking as a ghost, I find this discussion offensive.


Whoooooo!

[Tuomas]

Janik, I meant that sonce I'm not qualified enough as any Ph.D would be, I can do such statements based on the knowledge that I hold. Real Ph.Ds or students for that matter are there to tell me what I did wrong

2ma2, you just said it. People used to think electricity was regarded as witchcraft, electric phenomenons maybe as ghosts or some "unnatural"... today, we do not understand ghosts, earlier they did not understand many things. So briefly thinking I might suggest that what I use the term of Ghost for is what I mean by something that is unknown to us. So I should withdraw the word ghost. No, rather I should keep the specific explanation to the term that will be used from now on, the one mentioned above.

After all this discussion perhaps I can truly finish my theory and present it to my teacher. Anyway, once we prove there is something now unknown to us and we discover it, it'll be unknown anymore... swell

[Barbarian]

This thread reminded me of a news article I seen a while back about a picture of a "ghost" that a security camera captured at King Henry VIII Palace:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/3336299.stm

Another link about some resercher guy who thinks people who see ghosts that it's probably caused by "magnetic fields":
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/3046179.stm

Ã,  Ã, Well, either way, I think there's something to all this ghost stuff, as there's just so many strange unexplained things out there that we may not fully understand or be able to prove or disprove with science or logic.

[Nikolas]

Well, either way, I think there's something to all this ghost stuff, as there's just so many strange unexplained things out there that we may not fully understand or be able to prove or disprove with science or logic.

Maybe true, but what makes me more skeptic (or is it with k?) is that nothing "strange" hads ever happened to me. I consider myself rather open minded but still...