Adventure Game Studio

Community => General Discussion => Topic started by: Technocrat on Wed 18/05/2011 15:38:48

Title: The size of games...
Post by: Technocrat on Wed 18/05/2011 15:38:48
On Steam a moment ago, I saw the latest iteration of 2D Worms they've got on the go. I'm tempted of course, but that's not the point. The point is its size - apparently, it takes up about 2GB when installed. 2 gigabytes! Personally, I think that's rather obscene, for a game that doesn't look particularly far-advanced from Worms: Armageddon! How can it possibly take more space than Worms 3D and Worms Forts did?

At the risk of sounding elderly, I remember the days when the whole of Worms fit on two floppy disks, X-Wing came on three, and the size of most games could be measured in less than 10 megabytes. What on earth do they pad these games with to make them so huge these days?

/fogey
Title: Re: The size of games...
Post by: InCreator on Wed 18/05/2011 15:51:51
Videos maybe?
Title: Re: The size of games...
Post by: SpacePirateCaine on Wed 18/05/2011 15:52:04
Complicated or high-poly 3D models, high-resolution textures, low-compression audio (Audio is ridiculous at times, honestly) and a ton of other factors go into working out the size of a game. Even if at first glance it doesn't look that much greater than previous games in the same series, it's more than likely that they've upped the poly count and textures, added better sound, visual effects and a fair number of other little tweaks that contribute to the continued filling of your hard drive.

Hell, I bought a Terabyte drive with my new computer this year, and didn't think I could get even half way, until I decided to load my Steam/GoG library onto it. That said, I remember the good ol' days when I had Quest for Glory II on five "Five and a quarter" floppies. And when Police Quest 3 took up, like, 8 megabytes on our sixty MB drive.

Ah, the good ol' days. I guess the moral of the story is that the more space you've got, the more ways developers like us can find to fill 'em.
Title: Re: The size of games...
Post by: Technocrat on Wed 18/05/2011 16:04:01
We still have our oldest computer at home, it's a Pentium with 2 GB of space, from before the days of 3DFX. I remember when I tried to install Deus Ex on it for a joke - it ran like a slideshow!
Title: Re: The size of games...
Post by: Wyz on Wed 18/05/2011 16:11:50
To be honest it bothers me too, a lot of game developers these days don't spent enough time compressing their resources. Surely we want everything to look and sound crisp but using tga and flac is a bit too much if you ask me. Just png, or a slight lossy format and ogg will do a great job. I see that a lot of developers use video compression that is not really of this era, I don't know if this has anything to do with licensing or loading times, but often I get the impression it can be a lot smaller without much quality loss. But who cares about file sizes right? You can just buy a 500 gig disk for a few... I care! oh well :D
Title: Re: The size of games...
Post by: Calin Leafshade on Wed 18/05/2011 16:14:07
Remember that games have to cater for *far* higher resolutions now.

Worms 2 was a standard 640x480, modern games are 1920x1080. There is a substantial difference in the file sizes.
Title: Re: The size of games...
Post by: Hudders on Wed 18/05/2011 16:41:40
Quote from: Technocrat on Wed 18/05/2011 16:04:01
We still have our oldest computer at home, it's a Pentium with 2 GB of space, from before the days of 3DFX. I remember when I tried to install Deus Ex on it for a joke - it ran like a slideshow!

Mine's a 486 with 400MB...

Needless to say it's not much use to anyone.
Title: Re: The size of games...
Post by: SpacePirateCaine on Wed 18/05/2011 16:49:09
What Calin said - If your textures are small and models are low-poly, the graphics-obsessed 13-17 demographic will bite your head off these days. And a big benefit of uncompressed resources is that you can actually access them at a much higher speed since you don't need to make your game actively decompressing resources and wasting tons of memory.
Title: Re: The size of games...
Post by: Wyz on Wed 18/05/2011 17:05:32
That can be accounted for using a cache, some games have this and it's really nice. Than the user can either turn it off completely to save disk space or set it to the maximum if the user wants fast loading times. I think that's overall a better method.
Title: Re: The size of games...
Post by: Hudders on Wed 18/05/2011 20:21:56
A lot of its just laziness. We don't need to have nice, elegant code and neatly compressed resources because the end user's bound to have the capacity to cope with the unoptimised version.

It's the same as how there's a lot more buggy software released now than there was before patching was so easy to implement, (thanks to the Internet).
Title: Re: The size of games...
Post by: Igor Hardy on Thu 19/05/2011 12:07:48
Quote from: SpacePirateCaine on Wed 18/05/2011 16:49:09
What Calin said - If your textures are small and models are low-poly, the graphics-obsessed 13-17 demographic will bite your head off these days.

Ha, I'd like to witness it happen sometime. ;)
Title: Re: The size of games...
Post by: SpacePirateCaine on Thu 19/05/2011 13:42:57
You want to see a 15-year-old bite my head off?
Live, no less?
Title: Re: The size of games...
Post by: Hudders on Thu 19/05/2011 13:57:31
Quote from: SpacePirateCaine on Thu 19/05/2011 13:42:57
You want to see a 15-year-old bite my head off?
Live, no less?

Only if it's in HD!
Title: Re: The size of games...
Post by: InCreator on Thu 19/05/2011 14:13:53
Honestly, new Worms has even less content and fun factor than 3MB version back in 1995 did.
Maybe the size comes from shitty multiplayer game browser and "improved", non-cute worms graphics.
Title: Re: The size of games...
Post by: ThreeOhFour on Thu 19/05/2011 14:48:21
Quote from: SpacePirateCaine on Thu 19/05/2011 13:42:57
You want to see a 15-year-old bite my head off?
Live, no less?

Are 15 year olds even allowed to play the games you work on?  ;D
Title: Re: The size of games...
Post by: SpacePirateCaine on Thu 19/05/2011 15:13:22
Quote from: Ben304 on Thu 19/05/2011 14:48:21
Are 15 year olds even allowed to play the games you work on?  ;D

Akiba's Trip is only CERO C, so technically 15+ is okay - it just looks worse on paper than it actually is*. Class of Heroes and Wizardry: Harmless. Not so sure about Gladiator Begins, though. Kuma Story? I guess if you overthink the chicken bit, it could be pretty bad.

And back on topic, I remember when games didn't even require Hard Disks at all. First computer was a good ol' TI 99/4A. Loved that thing.

*Wouldn't recommend playing the mini-games on the AKIBA'S TRIP website around your parents, though.
Title: Re: The size of games...
Post by: ThreeOhFour on Thu 19/05/2011 15:43:47
Aw man and here I thought you were working on totally sexy games :(

As for game sizes, I was a dialup user well into the broadband era, and recall anything over ~2mb being far too much for my internet to handle on most days (2kb/s and frequent cutouts).

I also remember starting a 30mb download for the second Apprentice game and having to not use the PC for the rest of the day in case it froze or something while it downloaded the game  :D
Title: Re: The size of games...
Post by: Hudders on Thu 19/05/2011 15:55:23
Quote from: ThreeOhFour on Thu 19/05/2011 15:43:47
I also remember starting a 30mb download for the second Apprentice game and having to not use the PC for the rest of the day

My Internet used to time-out after two hours.
Title: Re: The size of games...
Post by: Radiant on Thu 19/05/2011 18:18:22
What bothers me is when retro games require ridiculous amounts of disk space and/or run slowly on low-end processors. A game that runs in something like 320x200 has no business having 100 Mb of graphics, nor requiring a 2 GHz machine to run properly. That's just sloppy coding.
Title: Re: The size of games...
Post by: Calin Leafshade on Thu 19/05/2011 18:46:23
Quote from: Radiant on Thu 19/05/2011 18:18:22
A game that runs in something like 320x200 has no business having 100 Mb of graphics, nor requiring a 2 GHz machine to run properly. That's just sloppy coding.

*raises hand.

Yes that would be me.
Title: Re: The size of games...
Post by: LimpingFish on Thu 19/05/2011 19:34:44
Akiba's Trip! I love Acquire games! \o/

I just paid â,¬25 for an "Acquire the Best" copy of Kamiwaza on PS2. I'm so excited!

...

Yes, it's true. I am the Acquire version of Icey. :-[

As for game sizes, Steam had a sale on GTA4 and Episodes from Liberty City. â,¬8 for both of them. I'm not the biggest GTA fan, but I figured I'd bite.

Downloading both games will cost me 32GB of bandwidth. o_O
Title: Re: The size of games...
Post by: moshboy on Sat 21/05/2011 11:09:08
Yeah.. 2 gb really isn't that big when compared to some other 'recent' releases. If you're comparing it to previous Worms titles, it probably does seem rather excessive though but as others have said... size is probably a tad more complicated then it seems.
Title: Re: The size of games...
Post by: mkennedy on Sat 21/05/2011 12:17:24
Quote from: an old gamer
When I was a kid games used to fit on a single floppy! And not one of those fancy, high density kind either! They'd fit on a single, 5 1/4 disk that held 360K! Back in the day we used to play text adventure games like 'Colossal Caves' or arcade games like 'Hard Hat Mac'. Most games only had 4 colors back then and were played on monochrome screens, if you had a color monitor with 16 colors you were considered lucky!

Digitised speech is a luxury that I feel should be optional. If a retro game does take up lots of space then it better have lots of rooms to explore, characters to talk to, and items to collect. It can be quite frustrating downloading a game that's hundreds of megabytes only to be able to beat it in less than a day. (If you're on dial up the download may actually take longer than it does to win!)

In the future the technology will probably only get better and games will get bigger. Then we will be the ones complaining to our children how games used to fit on a single DVD and you only needed a dual core 4gigahertz processor with  8 gigabyte of ram and 2 gigabyte 3D video card to run them.