TMNT

[DGMacphee]

You mention south park and family guy as though they are actually helping your argument that cartoons are at least as good now as they were in the 80's. 

If vulgar, low-brow, in-your-face comedy is your thing then I basically agree.

South Park tackles topical issues like The War on Terror, racism, religious hypocrisy and gay rights and shows alternative points of view to how society usually views these things and somehow THAT'S low-brow? Get real!

As for Family Guy, I agree, it's low brow. It's also funny. It's definitely funnier than anything from the 80s, so much so that it mocks the 80s consistently. Jesus, they devoted a whole episode to how stupid The A-Team was. Even I found that funny regardless of being a big Mr T fan.

in conclusion you know nothing about anything and you smell

[Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens]

Was that supposed to validate your points?  Just because South Park 'tackles' issues (to be correct they just do it to piss people off and not for any actual social relevance) doesn't make it any more entertaining than the GI Joe spin-off 'War on Drugs' was. 

As far as Family Guy being funny, yeah, if you are interested in low-brow humor then it is funny.

in conclusion you know nothing about anything and you smell

Personally, the only thing this does is make me feel you are not worth discussing anything with, MacPhee.  I really wish you would tone down your antagonistic nature and behave like a human being on these forums rather than slinging personal attacks at people at every opportunity -- whether you mean them or not.  I don't think you're a child so I see no reason for you to behave like one.

[DGMacphee]

Last bit first...

Personally, the only thing this does is make me feel you are not worth discussing anything with, MacPhee.  I really wish you would tone down your antagonistic nature and behave like a human being on these forums rather than slinging personal attacks at people at every opportunity -- whether you mean them or not.  I don't think you're a child so I see no reason for you to behave like one.

Take it easy, smelly. Wasn't a personal attack. I thought it was pretty obvious I didn't really think you smell. No need to start getting all high and mighty on Mount Smelly. :

Now the other bits...

Was that supposed to validate your points?

Yes. Yes, they were. Thank you for verifying.

Just because South Park 'tackles' issues (to be correct they just do it to piss people off and not for any actual social relevance)

But, it does have social relevance, despite the author's intent. It lampoons social issues and provides alternative/ironic points of view on them. Surely that has social relevance. Can you prove to me it DOESN'T have social relevance?

doesn't make it any more entertaining than the GI Joe spin-off 'War on Drugs' was.

But that wasn't your point. You called South Park low-brow comedy, when it's very much the opposite. I demonstrated how and you haven't said anything to refute that.

And forget the spin-off. I doubt anyone will say a single episode of GI JOE had as much social value as South park did, other than being pro-government propaganda. Did you know GI Joe was originally based on a comic written for the US army's magazine? Yeah, I think South Park is way more socially relevant than an army recruiting tool in this instance.

As far as Family Guy being funny, yeah, if you are interested in low-brow humor then it is funny.

Great, I'm glad you agree. Still waiting on a cartoon from the 80s that you think is as funny, if not more funny.

Once again, ProgZmax, chill out. Just because someone calls you smelly or says you know nothing about anything, doesn't mean they necessarily think so.

[Nacho]

As far as Family Guy being funny, yeah, if you are interested in low-brow humor then it is funny.

Great, I'm glad you agree. Still waiting on a cartoon from the 80s that you think is as funny, if not more funny.

Which argument is that Daniel? That deppends on the person. I gave Family Guy a chance. I saw 5 complete episodes (Critics were excelent, and many people devoted them...) and I just not only didn't lauged, but also thought it was annoying and disgusting.

[DGMacphee]

That I can easily understand. That's a personal opinion. However, what I have issue with is "The 80s are the best decade for cartoons". If that's true, name a cartoon from the 80s that's funnier than Family Guy. If Family Guy is that terrible, then this should be easy, shouldn't it?

[Nacho]

First... I am not discussing the main statement. I basically agree that the 90ies are better than the 80ies for cartoons made for adults (mmm... to be honest, there were cartoons for adults in the 80ies?  I am sure that a person who has high TV culture like you will enlight me about this issue, but I can' t really recall one...) 

My complain was about the example you have chosen. for me Duckman is 20 times funnier, same for Ren and Stimpy, and Spongebob has some gags that really made me laugh. (Sum to that that SpongeBob is basically suitable for all ages, and you' ll have a cartoon I' d recommend to my future little son).

As you see I am mentioning cartoons made int he 90ies. If you used them as an example I shouldn' t have posted.

But using for that a show that I hate (which doen' t mean I have any bad feeling to those who like it, of course  ) made me post about it. I agree with you, but just by a coincidence I don' t agree with the argument you used.

So, I don' t basically know why I am posting... I was bored. 

And, to answer your quesion, for ME, any cartoon in the 80ies was funnier than Family Guy, so, I am going to chose one and say "*the real*  Ghostbusters" (which might seem crap to someone else, I agree)

[DGMacphee]

Okay, so we're basically agreeing on everything except for the example I chose.

A matter of personal taste, I guess, because I enjoy watching Family Guy. Go figure.

[Nacho]

Yes, we agree only by coincidence, but your example is not too good... And Prog is smart and he will use it. 

So, being as I am a person in the same ship you are captaining, I say... Elaborate! There are a lot of examples of why cartoon series made in the 90ies are (overally) funnier  than the mad in the 80ies.

I would try to help you, but it should be like trying to help acting Robert DeNiro... you can do zillion times better.

So, good luck!

[DGMacphee]

Well, I also mentioned Simpsons, South Park, Nickelodeon, Cartoon Network and Warner Brothers... Is that enough to keep this ship sailing steady?

[Snarky]

It's fair enough that some people don't like South Park, but I think anyone who's being honest would have to admit that it does deal with socially relevant issues in a pretty incisive manner, without becoming didactic or holier-than-thou. In fact, being so insistently vulgar is what allows it to square the circle of handling serious topics and still remaining (if you like that kind of thing) funny. That makes it more ambitious than, oh, ANY cartoon from the 1980s.

In fact, I'd say that any argument that kids' cartoons from the 80s were better than the current ones is based on nostalgia, generational prejudice and personal taste, and has nothing to do with actual quality. Though the comparison gets a little absurd, Spongebob Squarepants is probably a better show than the TMHT cartoons ever were.

[Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens]

Once again, ProgZmax, chill out. Just because someone calls you smelly or says you know nothing about anything, doesn't mean they necessarily think so.

This is where you're wrong, DG.  Saying that I'm smelly didn't make any difference to me one way or the other, but dismissing someone's opinion with 'you know nothing about anything' is a different situation.  I've seen you do this before and I find it a rather rude way of trying to solidify your position as absolute in a discussion.  Whether you are being serious or not doesn't really matter when someone else thinks you are.  It's something to bear in mind.

but I think anyone who's being honest would have to admit that it does deal with socially relevant issues in a pretty incisive manner, without becoming didactic or holier-than-thou

I will be honest when I say for the most part that south park is largely shock value and vulgarity for the sake of it.  If that entertains you, go for it!  It does not entertain me, nor do I find their opinions or what you would consider social commentary to be incisive, thought-provoking or otherwise interesting -- though I will admit the scientology episode made me laugh.

I will gladly list cartoons that I think are far and away superior to, say, south park or family guy:

1.  Johnny Quest (ye olde version)
2.  Gummi Bears
3.  Dragon's Lair (still some hilarious stuff here)
4.  Thundercats

I'm not talking about one specific criteria here but rather overall enjoyment factor, and these definitely rate much higher on the enjoyment factor than anything the last decade has turned out (as far as the cartoons I've seen, anyway).  You are invited to offer cartoons from the mid-90s to now that you feel are superior, and, if I have not seen them yet, I will definitely watch a few episodes and see what I think.

As far as saying spongebob is a 'better show' than TMNT, I'd like to see your reasons.

[Nacho]

Well, I also mentioned Simpsons, South Park, Nickelodeon, Cartoon Network and Warner Brothers... Is that enough to keep this ship sailing steady?

Good for me... ^_^

[DGMacphee]

Once again, ProgZmax, chill out. Just because someone calls you smelly or says you know nothing about anything, doesn't mean they necessarily think so.

This is where you're wrong, DG.  Saying that I'm smelly didn't make any difference to me one way or the other, but dismissing someone's opinion with 'you know nothing about anything' is a different situation.  I've seen you do this before and I find it a rather rude way of trying to solidify your position as absolute in a discussion.  Whether you are being serious or not doesn't really matter when someone else thinks you are.  It's something to bear in mind.

Gee, I would have thought having my conclusion being "you know nothing about anything and you smell" sounded so ridiculous (especially a) the "you smell" part, and b) that I concluded you know nothing about anything from a discussion about cartoons, because cartoon obviously are the basis for everything) that people could instantly recognise I'm kidding around unless they'd actually have some kind of extra chromosome that stops them from recognising the bleeding obvious. It's something to bear in mind.

I mean seriously, if you feel that I personally attacked with "you know nothing about anything and you smell" that it actually caused you the kind of emotional damage that stops you functioning as a human being, then I will personally send you a packet of hankies so you can cry a river. Go on, explain to me how "you know nothing about anything and you smell" constitutes a personal attack, even when said with all seriousness.

I had no intention of resorting to personal attacks, nor do I have any future intentions of doing so. If I called you an over-sensitive bitch, that would be a personal attack. But I didn't call you an over-sensitive bitch. If I called you a humourless retard, okay, that would most definitely be a personal attack. But I didn't call you a humourless retard. If I called you a giant douchebag who wouldn't know good cartoons if they pissed in your mouth, yeah, that'd be a personal attack. But I'm not going to call you a giant douchebag who wouldn't know good cartoons if they pissed in your mouth. I didn't call you any of those personal attacks and nor will I. All I did was make a joke that was "you know nothing about anything and you smell", which hardly constitutes a personal attack.

[Nacho]

You must specify if when you said "you smell", you meant "you smell BAD" or "you smell GOOD". Otherwise I won' t be able to take part into this discussion.

[Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens]

"you know nothing about anything and you smell", which hardly constitutes a personal attack.

In your opinion. 

Drawn-out posts throwing in additional possible insults (is this an attempt to be cute?) and offering to send me hankies so I can 'cry a river' just continues to emphasize my point that you are antagonistic, rude, and unnecessarily confrontational in your posts.  I've seen you behave precisely in this manner many times before with other people and whether the other moderators agree with me or not I find it completely unacceptable.

You do not know me well enough to make any assumptions that your comments will be taken as jokes, particularly when you have this tendency to just go at people who don't share your opinion. 

I refuse to continue taking this topic off-track and so I will leave this here.

[DGMacphee]

"you know nothing about anything and you smell", which hardly constitutes a personal attack.

In your opinion.

Yes, in my opinion. If you're going to say it's a personal attack, then tell me what part of it actually "attacked" who you are as a person. Do you even know what a "personal attack" is? If you just going to accuse someone of making a "personal attack', you should back that up with some reasoning. And you haven't yet.

Just because you've got your panties in a bunch over a side joke (which I might add was pretty damn obvious I was kidding around) doesn't mean it's a personal attack.

You do not know me well enough to make any assumptions that your comments will be taken as jokes, particularly when you have this tendency to just go at people who don't share your opinion.

I'm fine with people who don't share my opinion. But I get confrontational and hate-filled about are people who make allegations that have no real basis. Like you are doing right now. You falsely accuse me of making a "personal attack" against you and you can't even tell me what it was about what I said that personally attacked you.

[Andail]

All right.
DG, stop being provocative. Even when you intend to joke. 
You have perfectly valid arguments, and there's no need to ruin them by sporadically pissing off people just for kicks.

[vict0r]

I don't understand what you are getting angry about progZ.. I would say in DGs defence that it were extremely obvious that he was kidding with such a ridiculous argument.

[Tuomas]

go figure. THe whole argument is useless. I prefer cartoons from 80's for some reason.

[Nickelodeon, Cartoon Network and Warner Brothers

Excuse me, but I'd rather puke that watch warner brothers or anything on cartoon network.

And something funnier from the 80's? try the cartoon mentioned in the TOPIC, which has excellent suggestive dialog and humour written into it.

Oh and there were care bears, and my little pony, but that's awful and only my sister would watch it.

[m0ds]

Woo, Turtles!!! I've gotta see this!! ...when its aired on Sky Movies. I used to love the cartoons and I even enjoyed the films a lot. It's interesting you've mentioned they've lost their pizza habit. Thats a bummer. To me that's like Hey Arnold not having his black friend anymore, or rather - all of his friends suddenly becomming black or something to please political correctness. Okay, that's a bad example. It's more like John McClane not smoking, hence the number of moments about him being pissed off about not having an available smoke, and finding clues because of it, etc. Turtles was very much about their pizza obsession, so thats a damn shame.

Never the less, at least this time they can't censor the title and call it "Hero Turtles". Puh. That was a silly 80's crime and a half. I agree with Esper that kids cartoons were generally better in earlier days, but yeah it may just be that I think that because that was during our youth. But there are times when I sit down and watch some cartoonage and I don't just enjoy the older stuff for its nostalga. They just seemed to be more epic in earlier days, really engrossing storylines. Storylines that were more like adventure games rather than FPS's :p That's not to say there aren't gems still popping up. Sure there are! But it was almost like the majority of cartoons back then were amazing, whereas now maybe a third of them are amazing. So I'd definitely say there's been a decline, no matter what age you are. But - there are too many psychological factors to consider for me to really know the truth.

It was acceptable iiin the 80'sssss!
(pizza, that is)