TMNT

[R4L]

Yes, I saw it, and I must say that it rocked!

Anyone else see it, or am I the only one?

[Disco]

o/

I saw and enjoyed it. I was worried at first that is would be too over the top cheesy, but it was okay and I understood the need to have it fully animated rather than live action. Imagi did a great job on the film, the art and animation were first class.

Bit of crazy nostalgia was had beforehand as pre-movie lunch was provided by Pizza Hut. I didn't realise until we got our order that we were having pizza before the film, perhaps it was my subconscious that directed me there. Or maybe that it is a favourite anyways

It didn't matter really as they have dropped the pizza quirk from the Turtles a couple years ago. I can't speak for the new cartoon, but I am a regular reader of the Tales of the TMNT comic books which are pizza-less as was the movie.

[Steel Drummer]

I haven't seen it, but I'm glad they made it animated rather than live action. Those live action movies were horrible.

[Tiki]

Speak for yourself, the first three were awesome.

I am skeptical about this new one, but I'll probably see it soon.

[R4L]

I haven't seen it, but I'm glad they made it animated rather than live action. Those live action movies were horrible.

Aww, I enjoyed them alot when I was little, and seeing them now is still awesome. Those suits were kick ass for back then.

I loved the 3D in the movie. It really was great. The characters were very fluid.

o/

I saw and enjoyed it. I was worried at first that is would be too over the top cheesy, but it was okay and I understood the need to have it fully animated rather than live action. Imagi did a great job on the film, the art and animation were first class.

Bit of crazy nostalgia was had beforehand as pre-movie lunch was provided by Pizza Hut. I didn't realise until we got our order that we were having pizza before the film, perhaps it was my subconscious that directed me there. Or maybe that it is a favourite anyways

It didn't matter really as they have dropped the pizza quirk from the Turtles a couple years ago. I can't speak for the new cartoon, but I am a regular reader of the Tales of the TMNT comic books which are pizza-less as was the movie.

Lucky you.

I had Dippin' Dots so no pizza for me, but I would have had some if I could. 

[esper]

I'm an Eastman and Laird purist. I refuse to watch this movie. I'm not such a purist when it comes to Transformers, and I am eagerly awaiting that. I wonder what's next! Voltron, Thundercats, G.I. Joe, Jem, Ducktales, MASK, or maybe Star Blazers? I hear there's a Speed Racer movie coming out soon, and a new Ghostbusters game. Are they going to ruin all my favorite 80's shows?

The fact remains that the 80's were the best era for cartoons in history. Saturday mornings nowadays are lineups designed for retards. You might as well just name everything "The Hurf Durf Show" and get it over with.

[DGMacphee]

The fact remains that the 80's were the best era for cartoons in history.

Uh, weren't the 90s the decade of the best Simpsons episodes? And when South Park started? And Futurama? And Family Guy? Or the decade Cartoon Network began? Or when Nickelodeon launched their Nicktoons, like Ren and Stimpy and Rugrats? Or when Steven Spielberg joined with Warner Brothers to create Tiny Toons, Animaniacs and Freakazoid?

Just to note as well: in the 80s, cartoons based on Garfield won the most Emmys for best animated program throughout the decade. And there was that time in 1987 when a cartoon based on Cathy won. Oh an another time in 1983 when Ziggy won. Nuff said.

[LGM]

Leave it to Grandpa Macphee to harp about something pointless!

[esper]

Cartoons for children. Compare any of the cartoons of the 80's to Spongedumbass Squarefuckwit, or Loonatiks, or My Gym Partner is a Monkey. Sure, the 90's introduced Animaniacs, Freakazoid, and Tiny Toons, but this was the turning point between cartoons for kids and cartoons for adults. The cartoons for kids in the 80's were great. The cartoons for young adults in the 90's were great. The cartoons for adults in the 2000's are great. The cartoons for kids since the 80's have progressively decreased in value, and the cartoons for kids today only go to prove that in another decade or children will have a collective IQ of 6.   

[SpacePirateCaine]

Honestly, I can see where you're coming from, Esper, but I think that you're falling into the trap that a lot of people do when they experience a sense of nostalgia due to something like a cartoon that they remember watching enthusiastically during their childhood. I'd be willing to say that every generation after advancing into adulthood probably hates the shows geared to the younger generation in the exact same way - My parents would never go anywhere near the living room when my brother and I would watch Inspector Gadget or Captain N, Droids, Transformers, Ninja Turtles - that whole Saturday morning lineup, because my parents believed that they were ridiculous.

We (in general terms) grew up exposed to the age of heavily diversified and serialized cartoons, cartoon spinoffs and an almost unforgiving lack of plot coherence. I recently watched, with some friends from my previous job, the He-Man first season DVD, and although I enjoyed it, I knew when I watched it that it sucked. The plots essentially made no sense, the characters were shallower than a pothole on a newly paved road, and the whole thing was obviously little more than a thinly veiled series of advertisements for action figures, which children (Like myself) would beg their parents for endlessly. I can't begin to imagine how many Masters of the Universe, GI Joe or Ninja Turtle figures I had - even the same character with one or two vague alterations to the body - a new color scheme, a chestplate that rotates to show battle damage, and so on and so forth.

We see these new adaptations of our childhood favorites and hate them because they aren't always one-hundred percent faithful to the cartoons they'rebased on, but then again, the Saturday morning TMNT cartoon wasn't based off of the Eastman/Laird graphic novels, either - the first movie was. Essentially what it all boils down to is: What is popular with children today?

You said something that makes a lot of sense:

The cartoons for kids in the 80's were great. The cartoons for young adults in the 90's were great. The cartoons for adults in the 2000's are great.

That's because they're our generation: The people making the cartoons for adults now are the kids that were watching Garfield and Friends and Ren & Stimpy in their childhoods just like us, who have grown up just like us. So it stands to reason that that would be exactly the way it works.

[DGMacphee]

Leave it to Grandpa Macphee to harp about something pointless!

How about you kiss my giant shut-yer-goddamn-mouth!

Cartoons for children. Compare any of the cartoons of the 80's to Spongedumbass Squarefuckwit, or Loonatiks, or My Gym Partner is a Monkey. Sure, the 90's introduced Animaniacs, Freakazoid, and Tiny Toons, but this was the turning point between cartoons for kids and cartoons for adults. The cartoons for kids in the 80's were great. The cartoons for young adults in the 90's were great. The cartoons for adults in the 2000's are great. The cartoons for kids since the 80's have progressively decreased in value, and the cartoons for kids today only go to prove that in another decade or children will have a collective IQ of 6.

I don't think you can imply that cartoon are dumber today. According to Wikipedia, "Because of FCC-mandated regulations that began in the mid-90s, broadcast stations were forced to program a minimum of three hours of children's educational/informational ("E/I") programming." (source)

Thus, in the 80s they had Ninja Turtles. Meanwhile in the 90s, they had Arthur.

So, maybe you'll want to re-state what you said about kids today having a collective IQ of 6. Unless of course this is some Bizarro World where educational programming makes you dumber. Also, you might want to try doing a little research before randomly punching out words on your keyboard.

Keep in mind, guys, I'm not saying Ninja Turtles is shit. I used to watch it, collect the cards and toys and so forth. I was a child of the 80s as much as anyone was. But honestly, I'd rather watch an episode of the Batman animated series (90s) than Ninja Turtles (80s).

Oh and just so everyone knows, the 80s gave birth to what I consider the dumbest premise for a cartoon: Turbo Teen.

[LGM]

How about you kiss my giant shut-yer-goddamn-mouth!

Leave it to Grandpa Macphee to... Oh I can't think of anything witty.

Either way, I agree. Anything from the era you grew up in is marginally better to you than what is available today.

Even medical care... Who needs AIDS medication when I can just contract a cold and DIE!? That is, assuming I HAVE AIDS. Which in fact, I don't.

[esper]

I love Arthur.

Anyway, just because there are a ton of educational programs doesn't mean kids watch them. They would rather watch stupid programs, because they are collectively stupid. Why are you arguing this? Do you have kids? Are they smart? Good. Thank you for doing a good job raising them, unlike 99% of parents. I've spent years working with kids. When I was a kid, I wanted to grow up to be a programmer, or a writer. Most of the kids I've worked with in my 8 years of experience want to be a Power Ranger or a Super Saiyin.

Maybe you might try not believing research before you start typing random words on your keyboard. Just because the United States releases figures about the quality of its education in order to make itself look good does not mean that it does, in fact, look good. By the way, like I said, I love Arthur, but the only kids I have ever known that watched Arthur without turning it to Nickelodeon's or Cartoon Network's stupidfests are people with parents who actually give a damn. Where do you stand financially? Have you ever lived in government assisted housing? I've worked with kids who live in the ghetto who only even exist because their parents want a tax write off... And there are much more of them then there are of parents who care. When you don't care, you turn on whatever is on the tv so your kid will shut up.

At least the shows of the 80's tried to have plots, and character development, and messages. Today, it's just a series of toilet humor, violence, and over-the-top weirdness so kids will pay attention and not bother their parents.

[DGMacphee]

I love Arthur.

Anyway, just because there are a ton of educational programs doesn't mean kids watch them. They would rather watch stupid programs, because they are collectively stupid. Why are you arguing this? Do you have kids? Are they smart? Good. Thank you for doing a good job raising them, unlike 99% of parents. I've spent years working with kids. When I was a kid, I wanted to grow up to be a programmer, or a writer. Most of the kids I've worked with in my 8 years of experience want to be a Power Ranger or a Super Saiyin.

Maybe you might try not believing research before you start typing random words on your keyboard. Just because the United States releases figures about the quality of its education in order to make itself look good does not mean that it does, in fact, look good. By the way, like I said, I love Arthur, but the only kids I have ever known that watched Arthur without turning it to Nickelodeon's or Cartoon Network's stupidfests are people with parents who actually give a damn. Where do you stand financially? Have you ever lived in government assisted housing? I've worked with kids who live in the ghetto who only even exist because their parents want a tax write off... And there are much more of them then there are of parents who care. When you don't care, you turn on whatever is on the tv so your kid will shut up.

Wow, great. You asked me a lot of questions. But nothing you've said prove that 80s cartoons were better, which was your original hypothesis. If anything, I'd say the standards of cartoon have become more complex.

People criticise stuff like, say, Pokemon (I did) but when you actually consider how complex Pokemon really is, what with all those Pokemon and their individual strengths and weaknesses, it's far more advanced than Ninja Turtles.

At least the shows of the 80's tried to have plots, and character development, and messages. Today, it's just a series of toilet humor, violence, and over-the-top weirdness so kids will pay attention and not bother their parents.

It's funny how you criticise Power Rangers because Power Rangers is essentially Ninja Turtles. A rag-tag team who are physically similar (except for colour coding) but have their own archetyped personalities while they battle forces of evil. Essentially, Ninja Turtles and Power Rangers are exactly the same in terms of plot, character development and messages. So I don't see how you can praise one and condemn the other.

Oh and... Turbo Teen. Nuff said.

[Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens]

Uh, weren't the 90s the decade of the best Simpsons episodes? And when South Park started? And Futurama? And Family Guy? Or the decade Cartoon Network began? Or when Nickelodeon launched their Nicktoons, like Ren and Stimpy and Rugrats? Or when Steven Spielberg joined with Warner Brothers to create Tiny Toons, Animaniacs and Freakazoid?

You mention south park and family guy as though they are actually helping your argument that cartoons are at least as good now as they were in the 80's. 

If vulgar, low-brow, in-your-face comedy is your thing then I basically agree.


Anyway, to at least try and maintain some topic relevance, I didn't realize they had eliminated pizza from the TMNT manifesto.  Was there an underlying reason for this (to toughen the characters up) or was it just arbitrary?  If you read the really old TMNT comics from before they really took off (and even now, really) the turtles were a lot more brutal than they are depicted in the cartoons, especially the 80s cartoon.  At one point I think Leonardo even had his arm chopped off by Shredder and needed a robotic replacement!

[Vince Twelve]

At one point I think Leonardo even had his arm chopped off by Shredder and needed a robotic replacement!

Yeah, but that was before George Lucas quit writing for the Turtles and started working on his own cinematic projects.  "Star something-or-other"...

[R4L]

This movie was more serious, and the only pizza I saw were in the scenes where they either had it lying around, or Michealangelo was burping it up. 

Esper, I thought the same as you for a bit. I figured I wouldn't go see it, but then I figured that it could possibly be good. It was too, so I think you should see it, even if it isn't 80's or 90's or whatever. 

[Tuomas]

The only thing that matters is that the teenage mutant ninja turtles are pure awesomeness to the top, even though the whole consept nears perversion. I just watched all the original season through, and I can't really say how much more I enjoyed them than the usual Simpsons etc on telly nowadays. Especially the dialog is genious, they really put an effort to it.

[big brother]

I didn't realize they had eliminated pizza from the TMNT manifesto.  Was there an underlying reason for this (to toughen the characters up) or was it just arbitrary? 

I would suspect it has something to do with the child obesity. There's a lot of "rules" emerging about children's entertainment and junk food. Like how Cookie Monster kicked the habit.

[R4L]

I didn't realize they had eliminated pizza from the TMNT manifesto.  Was there an underlying reason for this (to toughen the characters up) or was it just arbitrary? 

I would suspect it has something to do with the child obesity. There's a lot of "rules" emerging about children's entertainment and junk food. Like how Cookie Monster kicked the habit.

Bastards.... now it's Veggie Monster. I grew up with the Sesame Street gang, and I hate cookies.