At times I lose in tress in continuing any project I started even though it's going good.
I just wanted to know what do you do to keep yourself going?
I troll internet forums. It seems to work for others too...
"in tress" is the greatest interpreation of a word that I have ever seen.
It marginally beats someone who thought that Cheese was the plural of Chee.
Although I have yet to release a full-length title, let me say this much, as to what kinds of things seem to work for me:
-Get a clear vision for a game that you want to do. Spend a lot of time working on the plot, the protagonist, various interesting characters. Find ways to simplify the main plot, and find a way to develop dialog and storytelling that ties the characters together into a very well-thought-out environment. Good writing and solid puzzles can carry a game with crappy graphics any day of the week.
-Get a group of people to regularly test out your game. For me, I was constantly releasing weekly builds of "No One Likes You" (Before I lost all the source code and asset files, d'oh) in which some friends of mine would play through and write down any new bugs they'd stumble across, things they liked, puzzles which didn't logically make sense, etc. It's very important to get some feedback from a point of view that isn't yours, in order to see if the gameplay is truly as intuitive as you think it is. It's also very rewarding to hear how much people like it, week after week.
And finally, one thing I'm really putting effort into is a demo sampler of about four or five different game ideas I've had for the past two years and really been working on. I'll release them when the time is right, and then I'll get people to vote on which one I should work on and release first.
Either way, for me, getting feedback is my primary motivator, and knowing that I can tell a damned good story is one of the most rewarding things about doing this as a hobby.
That seems like a good approach. I got part 1 done So I guess I'ma find some reliable testers that I know. And maybe if the game is long enough then I will release a demo. And I do love feedback so this should all work.
I think my problem is I have a mind set to rush through a project & not enjoy it as I go along. :-\
Quote from: Studio3 on Fri 18/02/2011 04:33:49
That seems like a good approach. I got part 1 done So I guess I'ma find some reliable testers that I know. And maybe if the game is long enough then I will release a demo. And I do love feedback so this should all work.
I think my problem is I have a mind set to rush through a project & not enjoy it as I go along. :-\
Your problem is that you're too ambitious! You want to release ten different games all at once and create some kind of legacy for yourself. You aren't going to be the next Square Enix anytime soon. Just chill out and put your all into one game that you can actually be PROUD of and others can actually ENJOY.
True. I guess I gotta push my self a little more. :)
I think Studio3 should be commended for his tenacity, ambitious or not. A lesser person would've given up by now due to the 'support' we've been giving him.
It truly shows strength of character and I admire that. Elitism is never a good thing.
Thanks. I think.
Don't know how far you are with the project, but my advice would be to focus on getting a rough prototype of the game up and running. Doesn't matter that the art assets are placeholders or dialog is sparse. Once it starts actually feeling like a game, something that is playable, has a structure and a flow, then it'll seem much more worthwhile fleshing out and eventually completing.
It's very easy to lose yourself in perfecting individual backgrounds or adding clever details to the interface, but as long as all you have to show for your hard work is a bunch of pretty sprites and a series of finished, but disconnected rooms it's hard to keep motivated. Prototyping with programmer art and placeholder text will also help you see flaws in your design and quite possibly save you from wasting time on content that you'll end up cutting or changing anyway.
Well then, just release Shadowplay already! I'm sure it's more than playable by now! :D
Hehe, sadly any advice I have to give are lessons I learned the hard way :). But lord knows that "Shadowplay: Stick Figure Edition" would solve 99% of the issues that are making me wait for AGS to be open sourced.
Edit: Just to clarify, I should note that the project itself hasn't been put on hold - in fact I've just expanded the team size by 100% (so now there's two of us :)). A friend of mine who's a very talented artist has agreed to help me with the various film clips you get to watch in-game, and I'm extremely happy and excited about this collaboration. Knowing her artistic style and the various inspirations we've been discussing I can promise they will be quite unique.
One needs time. Darn time. Always-eluding time. Never enough time.
Dumping your girlfriend helps :-D
If I struggle with the main game then I think about what to put in the DLC.
Three coffees and a couple of cigarettes seem to do it for me... Not recommened. 8)
Quote from: Grim on Fri 18/02/2011 10:35:02
Three coffees and a couple of cigarettes seem to do it for me... Not recommened. 8)
No coffees and no cigarettes (well occasionally some), but good music does it for me.
Quote from: Grim on Fri 18/02/2011 10:35:02
Three coffees and a couple of cigarettes seem to do it for me... Not recommened. 8)
Haha cigarettes are the worst way to get anything done.
"Ok I'll do the background for this room just now, right after I have a smoke."
Eight minutes later..."Hmmm... Maybe one more smoke and then I'll definitely start!"
Eight more minutes later...etc...
That's pretty much my life. I'd probably be a multi-millionare by now who's fluent in 37 languages if I didn't smoke haha.
Oh yea, and also if I didn't play Minecraft :/
Quote from: Dualnames on Fri 18/02/2011 11:00:08
Quote from: Grim on Fri 18/02/2011 10:35:02
Three coffees and a couple of cigarettes seem to do it for me... Not recommened. 8)
No coffees and no cigarettes (well occasionally some), but good music does it for me.
Good music is what does it for me as well
Quote from: Phemar on Fri 18/02/2011 11:17:42
Quote from: Grim on Fri 18/02/2011 10:35:02
Three coffees and a couple of cigarettes seem to do it for me... Not recommened. 8)
Haha cigarettes are the worst way to get anything done.
I'd probably be a multi-millionare by now who's fluent in 37 languages if I didn't smoke haha.
The beauty of the PC mouse is that you can smoke AND use mouse in the same time!
I smoke in the kitchen window these days, though.... 8)
Quote from: Grim on Fri 18/02/2011 10:35:02
Three coffees and a couple of cigarettes seem to do it for me... Not recommened. 8)
sometimes (half) a joint and 2 good coffees do it for me.
but most of the time: some cigarets and 2 good coffees and a joint afterwards.
1 ) Have a strong design document. Write out everything that happens in the game, all the characters and their motivations. Show it to other people. Their approval will spur you on, and their criticism will make it better.
2 ) Keep it short. If you haven't finished a game, huge projects are really daunting and drain your energy faster than you can say "Overwhelmed".
3 ) Programmer art, programmer dialogue, and being bare bones with your game will really help. Forget the fancy arcade sequence, forget the online multiplayer (why does everyone want that nowadays?), just make the skeleton of a good game. Does it make sense that you use the squirrel on the concierge? If not, you have to put clues in, and amend your design document. Doing a skeleton of your game makes it that much more solid. You've achieved something.
4 ) Do things on paper. People often get disheartened if they do things on computers because they're left with the impression that they have achieved nothing, because what they've done isn't tangible. Write out notes in a notebook, on paper, or simply on napkins and it will spur you on. Concept art especially should be on paper. That way, you can look through it and think "Yes, I sure have done a lot for this game!"
5 ) Keep it simple. Want to allude to a grand scheme, a great conspiracy but you just can't bring yourself to write it? Leave it as an allusion. You don't have to make it anything more than that. You build on the simple, and the game will grow organically. Trying to force a huge story into something whole cloth just doesn't work, and usually ends up being obtuse and boring.
6 ) Take a break. If you're working on your long game, and you think "I AM SICK OF THE SIGHT OF THIS", just put it to the back of your mind and do something different for a while. If your design document is strong enough, and your work is on paper, you'll look at it and think "Wow, I really want to get back into this!"
7 ) Other people. If other people believe in your game as much as you do, it's a huge confidence boost. Bring on the critics lounge, post screenshots in Games in Production (This is AFTER the skeleton stage, by the way), ask people to look over your design document (but keep it hush hush), and get people to beta test and do quality control.
8 ) Force of will. Usually the only thing keeping people going at the end, you just gotta keep going and stay focused.
9 ) Deadlines. Set a deadline for each part of your project. Design document done by X, Skeleton done by Y, Character graphics done by Z. It will force you to continue.
10 ) If all else fails, and you still can't find a reason to work on your game, try something new, something fresh. Something you really believe in, and that noone else has done. Forget the rip offs, forget the remakes, forget the Deluxe Ultra Disk 5 versions and your huge worlds with huge continuity. Just make a short, enjoyable game with a lovable character and a short, simple story.
Quote from: Arj0n on Fri 18/02/2011 12:41:24
Quote from: Grim on Fri 18/02/2011 10:35:02
Three coffees and a couple of cigarettes seem to do it for me... Not recommened. 8)
sometimes (half) a joint and 2 good coffees do it for me.
but most of the time: some cigarets and 2 good coffees and a joint afterwards.
That's normally my method as well :D
What Scavenger said helps a lot. I designed most of my current game on paper, really raw, and then wrote it on word with all the details.
I don't have any completed games, but for my experience in other things I can say you must trust and believe in your project. It must be something you love.
If you are being payed you will probably be doing boring stuff most of the time. But if you are doing it for free, you must choose something that you are really interested in, or you will be bored and drop it in a couple of days.
Ok so what I here is -
Good music
Time
Beta's/demo's
Love for the game
& Scavenger's long list that I am def going to read.
These all seem like good things. I hope it all help me.
Quote from: Studio3 on Sat 19/02/2011 02:21:04
& Scavenger's long list that I am def going to read.
;D
Quote from: Studio3 on Sat 19/02/2011 02:21:04
Good music
What music do you like, by the way, Icey? I mean, what is the
all time ultimate inspirational greatest album that helps mind focus on making games and all things AGS?
I know Dualnames will say Pink Floyd: The Dark Side Of The Moon. So I thought I'd save him typing that....
I tried that album and it does n othing for me. It actually bored my slightly.... I know, herecy to some, but there you go.
So, really, I wanted to find out what genre of music Icey is into, and why. Then I added all that other stuff to cover that up.... ;) Anyway, I better go make a coffee, smoke some fags, listen to some Boxer Rebellion and make that long-overdue background 84... :)
Video game Music by Nobuo Uematsu.
Quote from: Grim on Sat 19/02/2011 03:50:58
Quote from: Studio3 on Sat 19/02/2011 02:21:04
Good music
What music do you like, by the way, Icey? I mean, what is the all time ultimate inspirational greatest album that helps mind focus on making games and all things AGS?
I know Dualnames will say Pink Floyd: The Dark Side Of The Moon. So I thought I'd save him typing that....
I tried that album and it does n othing for me. It actually bored my slightly.... I know, herecy to some, but there you go.
So, really, I wanted to find out what genre of music Icey is into, and why. Then I added all that other stuff to cover that up.... ;) Anyway, I better go make a coffee, smoke some fags, listen to some Boxer Rebellion and make that long-overdue background 84... :)
I wouldn't use Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon, it's not my style for adventure gaming. But I'd use a Pink Floyd album. Depends on what you're making. Also made a spelling mistake there.
Quote... make a coffee, smoke some Boxer Rebellion, listen to some fags ...
There, fixed.
Quote from: Arj0n on Fri 18/02/2011 12:41:24
Quote from: Grim on Fri 18/02/2011 10:35:02
Three coffees and a couple of cigarettes seem to do it for me... Not recommened. 8)
sometimes (half) a joint and 2 good coffees do it for me.
but most of the time: some cigarets and 2 good coffees and a joint afterwards.
Dude, speaking from experience here, smoking a joint and drinking coffee is a really unhealthy habit. Not good when your heart starts freaking out and tries to jump out your chest. Wait for the caffeine boost to go then have the spliff....
Quote from: Chicky on Sat 19/02/2011 10:49:30Dude, speaking from experience here, smoking a joint and drinking coffee is a really unhealthy habit. Not good when your heart starts freaking out and tries to jump out your chest. Wait for the caffeine boost to go then have the spliff....
Skip the coffee and smoke a nice sativa. You don't need addictive drugs like caffeine to stay energized ;).
I don't smoke but I do love coffee :]
I don't know. Everywhere you go, people are just so ready to jump in and offer a shitload of advice for EVERYTHING UNDER THE SUN and while well meant, it's all just personal opinions.
Motivation is such a personal issue I couldn't even begin to honestly advise anyone (let alone myself) on the best way to do something. For me, it's either do it or don't, but isn't that what motivation comes down to anyway?
Point being, I don't really see returns on a general question of how to become motivated. You need to look inside yourself and find that answer.
Well usually I play games that is of the same genre to get an idea at what I am after and what I could use in my game. Then when I am on the PC I listen to the music that may go with the game. And that always helps me until I get more into the game, Then it get's boring and I am ready to start a new game. :P
Quote from: ProgZmax on Sat 19/02/2011 16:07:10
I don't know. Everywhere you go, people are just so ready to jump in and offer a shitload of advice for EVERYTHING UNDER THE SUN and while well meant, it's all just personal opinions.
Motivation is such a personal issue I couldn't even begin to honestly advise anyone (let alone myself) on the best way to do something. For me, it's either do it or don't, but isn't that what motivation comes down to anyway?
Point being, I don't really see returns on a general question of how to become motivated. You need to look inside yourself and find that answer.
Hm, I think its a little bit of both. I was very similar to icey during my former developements, which looked always great and i started with a lot of motivation but with little ideas where I was heading. So after the first enthusiasm was gone I ended up without a plan and ultimately abandoned the project.
Abduction was the turning point for me. And I had three simple rules for the development:
- Keep my first project as small as possible
- Having completely laid out my game with puzzles and "plot" before I do a single stroke.
- Having a deadline (in my case: MAGS)
I worked out as you all know..
But, it was only possible because I REALLY wanted this game to be finished. I was so convinced of the concept and so frustrated from not ever finishing something that I worked like a madman to finish this. It was hell at times, as I learned scripting and animation techniques as i went along and if I hadnt been so convined of the game I wouldnt have finished it.
That's right! a do date.
I remember that when making OSD2 I planed to finish it on before 2011 and I finished it in a month and half. I should set a do date with all my games.
Quote from: GarageGothic on Sat 19/02/2011 11:17:01
Quote from: Chicky on Sat 19/02/2011 10:49:30Dude, speaking from experience here, smoking a joint and drinking coffee is a really unhealthy habit. Not good when your heart starts freaking out and tries to jump out your chest. Wait for the caffeine boost to go then have the spliff....
Skip the coffee and smoke a nice sativa. You don't need addictive drugs like caffeine to stay energized ;).
I agree! It sucks here, you get what you're given. Mostly indica, we don't get a lot done...
I think it boils down to two things: Confidence and expectation.
You need to have confidence in yourself, often that what you do is of good quality and meaningful.
There are two ways you can boost your confidence:
- Work on it. Practice. Improve.
- Get assurance from other people, show your work, enter competitions. Not everyone has to agree with your work, but at least some supporters will get you going.
It helps to have a goal, something to look forward to. It can be something little like showing to finished project to someone you respect, or you could enter it in a competition.
Alternatively you could make deadlines for certain parts of your game like: finish the room before the end of the week. It is really motivating if you pull it off. Of course you must never set the bar too high for each of these expectations: it might hurt your motivation, even for future projects.
Well, now it's beer not coffee. But cigarettes nevertheless.
Too bad I don't have a joint nearby.
1. Lay off the crack.
2. Think of making something without "Quest" in the name. Or "pub".
3. Don't consider a game with a title that's just a load of squares and doesn't translate to English if you don't have a Japanese font sub-set installed.
4. Masturbate to extremely erotic porn.
Good luck little man!
Quote from: Mods on Sun 20/02/2011 02:21:02
1. Lay off the crack.
2. Think of making something without "Quest" in the name. Or "pub".
3. Don't consider a game with a title that's just a load of squares and doesn't translate to English if you don't have a Japanese font sub-set installed.
4. Masturbate to extremely erotic porn.
Good luck little man!
Those advices don't work. m0ds is a fake. :D
@m0ds: I can do that. & #4 was funny.
@wyz:Confidence and expectation both sound very good. I know I have confidence but an expectation...
Quote from: Mods on Sun 20/02/2011 02:21:02
4. Masturbate to extremely erotic porn.
Good luck little man!
Does "participate in" count instead?
Quote from: Technocrat on Sun 20/02/2011 08:38:28
Does "participate in" count instead?
Haha! Why yes, that's even better for inspiration :=
As a serious answer I would say keep writing things down on paper. It's a quick design method and even if things don't work out, you have something to work from at a later date. I understand sitting at the PC and working on something without any particular design (of any kind) can lead to motivational issues. When you have a love for a project and when you want to "store" some motivation you end up with a folder all about your game, and working from it improves your output and structure. IMO - pen, paper and print-outs are to game design what walk is to character.Walk. You can reduce losing motivation with a strong design, and one you can turn to with interest every day. Good luck.
Yeah I have been doing that for the past 6 years before I started AGS. I made sketches,Concepts,Comic's,ects for all my FF.XIII games aka PMQ.legends :)
But I tend to be slow with doing that so I think I will be picking that back up again.