treatment of ""noobs"

[Babar]

Hello, my name is Babar. I have been a member for a while now, and I even used to frequent the old ags site before it stopped. I lost ags for  a while after that (not being computer literate enough to search for it) :. I am what is known as a lurker or roamer or something, meaning that I rarely post. I just work with my game (however slowly) and look over the forums trying to learn some stuff.
Coming to the point, I wanted to comment on the behaviour of the members towards so-called "noobs". I mean, come on, give them a break. This people have found something they enjoy, something they can create entertainment with, and they need your help to get started. Sure they may try to act a little  8) at first as they do not know how it all works, but that's no reason to unload on them a barrage of insults and put-downs. Enthusiasm for ags is soon turned into disgust for the 24hr online help. Sure, it may all be meant in fun, but how are they to know that? I mean I've seen conversations that go something like this (Now don't ask me to prove it, this is just an example):

noob> Hey everyone! I love AGS!!!1!!111! can you tell me how to <insert request here>?
elitest member1> lol! STFU noob!
elitest member2>lol elitest member1! noob doesn't know about the fullhiflowdiadox2121{934.3,64,43} command!! STFU Noob!!
noob> sorry, what does the fullhiflowdiadox2121{934.3,64,43} command do?
elitest member1> it does what you want depending on the quasi-mondo diatomic variable you place in the 2nd decimal point of the number that comes before infinity! Any idiot should know that!
noob> just f*ck you all! your just a bunch of sealless goose chuckers!!
ultra politically correct member> Hey, now don't go dissing goose chuckers and calling them sealless, there are a lot of them using these forums and its not nice
noob> WHAT A BUNCH OF NUTS!!! ARRRGGGGHHH!!!@11!!21 I'm out of here

Sure they may act stupid in their first few posts, but they are new! They will learn after awhile, that is if you do not scare them off before that. I mean, you want the AGS community to grow, right? You'll have to accept noobs for that. Hey wait a minute!!! What if you don't want them to grow! What if AGS is trying to become a closed elite community that will use AGS to take over the world! Naaa... I don't think so. Therefore be kind to the unhumble noob so he spread the word of adventure and all..
(btw, I don't really consider any ags commands to be as complicated as fullhiflowdiadox2121{934.3,64,43}, but some people may find it a trifle difficult. Also, what does STFU signify? I have seen it used a lot but don't know)
Thansk

[Darth Mandarb]

Also, what does STFU signify? I have seen it used a lot but don't know)Thansk

Oh man ... Shut The Fuck Up!!

I was a stupid noob once ... now I'm just stupid

edit - noobs will almost always be treated that way.  It's a hazing type thing.

[Andail]

I don't agree at all.
Never have I seen an ordinary technical query being met by that kind of scorn you present in your little example.

When it comes to technical support, the ags-community must be one of the absolute friendliest in the world, and I thank our techies for their working around the clock.

Most of the times when people are mocked, it's because they haven't read the "read before posting" threads, and consequently make a few mistakes, like advertising for team-members and hyping projects withour anything to show.

All in all, I think compared to many other communities out there, this is one of the friendliest, and as long as you don't spam, overpost or violate the forum policy, you're almost guaranteed to not become mocked or flamed.

Please notify me the next time you see somebody recieve that kind of treatment you mentioned, without earning it whatsoever, and I'll give the responsible ones a good bash

[Esseb]

I agree with Andail, but I think we could be more friendly to the new people he mentions also.

I just wanted to point out that if your example happens to be from #ags, it never was meant to be a place to ask technical questions.

[Babar]

I don't really go to #ags so I can't complain about that, but I wanted to say that it is not always "an ordinary technical query". Someone may ask something like "how do I make a person?". Sure, its a ambigious and silly question, but the guy is just a noob and doesn't know how. The reply will probably be a dozen "RTFM!!!" along with the weird little emoticon I have no idea how to duplicate. The manual is all good, but there are some things hidden in places where you do not expect them, and it is possible to get the search words wrong

[Esseb]

So it is #ags you are referring to?

If you see this happening again pm one of the operators in the channel, the people with @ in front of their nick, and explain the situation. Except for Roger and BlueCup who are bots.

[Babar]

nononono, you misunderstand, I said I don't really go to #ags, so until you mentioned it I was unaware of any problems occuring there. However, I would gladly include that in my arguement, so in conclusion, yeah, that too

[Esseb]

My advice applies for the forums also. Contact the moderators if you see it happening. Then it is up to them to judge if the situation is bad enough to warrant a reaction. I agree with you to some extent like I said above, a few of the oldbies do tend to be a bit over the top at times.

[Barcik]

Perhaps it is my selective memory talking here, but I can't really recall enough of such events to justify such a public plea to stop them. Can you please give examples of cases when newbies were mistreated that way?

[LordHart]

When it comes to technical support, the ags-community must be one of the absolute friendliest in the world, and I thank our techies for their working around the clock.

They definately do work around the clock. For instance, when I first started coming here, I wondered about how to make characters go from one room to another in real-time... Scorpious replies, and subsequently writes the CCS plugin so that everyone would be able to use it... now that is just brilliant!!

[Robert Eric]

I've never bashed a newcomer unless I was joking around, or they were getting on everyone's nerves.  Any questions a newbie may have, I'm always ready and willing to answer to the best of my abilities.

[MrColossal]

i've seen it alot in the beg. technical forum... it's mostly TK i read being a jerk.

and people could say "but reading the same question over and over again gets annoying so I get frustrated!"

so don't post, there are tons of people who will help, there's no reason for you to post and if you wait a little while instead of just acting on impulse and insulting this person then you'll have calmed down or someone else would have answered

http://www.agsforums.com/yabb/index.php?board=6;action=display;threadid=10501;start=msg127375#msg127375

jerk who didn't even read the question

http://www.agsforums.com/yabb/index.php?board=6;action=display;threadid=10602;start=msg128091#msg128091

question was answered, continued to be a jerk

[Pessi]

I think Babloyi has a point.

I have also thought that some people are being too negative or inconsiderate towards new people. It's understandable but still... it doesn't really help anyone, in my opinion.

I usually only post something that is in positive or helpful tone. It's not cool to wait for replies when you know they'll probably be negative towards you. I hope it doesn't have anything to do with the fact I'm posting less and less all the time.

[Las Naranjas]

It's also worth noting that those who haze "n00bs" are, in the relative scheme of the board, almost invariably "n00bs" themselves, so what they say doesn't bear much weight as indication of the elitism of the higher caste of users.

That elitism is far more subtle and sophisticated.

[Simple]

It's been a while since I've seen newbies trashed that way...but it does happen, sadly.  Well...not THAT way, it's an obvious exaggeration, but close.  I think it just has to do with peoples' moods at the time.  I won't name any names, mostly because I like everybody here, and any time someone has stepped out of line it's ended up being far our of character for them...and nobody's perfect.  I don't know, as long as people don't make a habit out of doing it (which so far they haven't), it's somewhat excusable...

...but it doesn't hurt to be a little more sensitive either.  Ah, I don't know.  I keep thinking back on a specific example, but it doesn't do any good to go dragging up old graves.  Point is that sometimes I think we let our "wit" or whatever get ahead of our brains and say things that really shouldn't be said outside of a comic strip.

[Andail]

I think some people here speak of isolated events when somebody has lost his temper and written a few insults.

It's a completely different thing when a whole bunch of people go on bullying someone, and nobody does anything about it.

I've never seen the latter happening without a moderator, CJ or just some mature member interfering and stopping it.

So I simply don't think we should complain.

[helm101]

I think some people here speak of isolated events when somebody has lost his temper and written a few insults.

It's a completely different thing when a whole bunch of people go on bullying someone, and nobody does anything about it.

I've never seen the latter happening without a moderator, CJ or just some mature member interfering and stopping it.

So I simply don't think we should complain.

STFU Noob!

[DGMacphee]

LOL, oh Helm -- You always make me laugh, you wacky Greek!

As for the whole noob issue: we sorted that out ages ago.

Noobs are always welcome here.

We don't haze noobs.

We haze people who act like morons.

For example, let's just say you made a demo for a fangame, and you told everyone they could get it on Kazaa...

EDIT: You're not the real Helm -- fuck you for making me believe you were!

[TerranRich]

What TK did in those two threads is unacceptable. I sadly cannot be on the beginners' tech forum all the time and I'm sorry to say I missed those. If that happens again, I'll PM the person.

And any time I've ever been less than cheerfully helpful to a newbie was for good reason. There is a reason we have several sticky threads in that forum, one of which says "READ BEFORE ALL ELSE". Perhaps I should change them to "READ FIRST", "READ SECOND", etc.? I mean, those stickies outline everything a newcomer should read before asking any question. I've stopped updating the Beginners' FAQ out of being too busy in real life, but it has a lot of questions that newbies still seem impelled to ask.

I try to answer politely and say "please read the READ FIRST BEFORE ALL ELSE sticky thread, it's there for a reason". It's there to save us all time in answering redundant questions.

[powerhouse]

Wow another reference to Kazaa!  We all love Kazaa!  Especially us noobs!