Virginia Tech massacre

[Nacho]

I could... I could criticise a lot of internal policies... The russians, the Belarusans, the Chineses, the North Koreans, Dozens of African countries and dozens of left dictadures...

The problems is that these threads would fall into oblivion because criticising the problems of any country "except America" is not popular here. Which is sad...

[voh]

Last thing I'm going to say is this:

I do NOT hate America - I love many parts of its culture and the people are generally amazingly friendly and they're getting more and more critical in their thinking, which I see as a good thing.

I just don't understand the gun laws.

[Nacho]

I agree.

[Darth Mandarb]

I agree.

[Nikolas]

I agree

[Tuomas]

Agree with what?

... oh. I see

Anyway, if you really really want to see controversy, and critics on some other country than this, get me a bg artist and help me finally finish my game

[Nacho]

Oh, Helm! I see the bashing. You don' t? Well... I don' t want to impose an opinion, maybe you are right. Maybe I am a bit defensive and paranoid, but well...

I see the general bashing.

We agree to disagree.

But I don' t think I am going to leave the forums anymore, I think. I learnt to differenciate between "Internet" and "people" 

[vict0r]

I see how some people can see this as USA-bashing, but I personally don't think it is.

Anyways... I agree with voh! And I'd like to quote what someone said some time... "Discussions on the internet is just like the special olympics. Even if you win, you are still a retard."

[voh]

That was also me 

[Pumaman]

And just to prove it's not just the US that has problems, big brother is right:

Homicides   1976     2004      Change
USA          19,000   16,000      -16%
UK                 450        850      +88%

Hmm.

[Tuomas]

That just says that it took 38 years for all the Clint Eastwood movies to land on british coast.

[vict0r]

That was also me 

Hahaha! You are a genius!

[Disco]

And just to prove it's not just the US that has problems, big brother is right:

Homicides   1976     2004      Change
USA          19,000   16,000      -16%
UK                 450        850      +88%

Hmm.

Oh no, don't worry Chris, it's not as bad as it appears, you have to remember the the US has nearly fives times the population of the UK (CIA Factfile, July 2006). Adjusting for proportions, the five Britains needed to match the US would have had a total of  4,250 homicides, which is almost as much as the Unites States' 16,000.

[Nacho]

Hehe... 4,250 is not really almost 16,000, Kenneth 

[Moresco]

I know I said I was out...but just wanted to add this:

USA is not the leader of homicides, not by a long shot - but that doesn't matter.  And I'm an American, and I hate guns and the gun laws.  I vote and I do whatever I can, but things stay the same and it pisses me off.  I know I'm not alone either, like I said earlier, there are millions of Americans that are sad that guns exist and that they exist in our country.  And we'll blame everything in a day.  We'll blame foreign nations who build them in their factories and sell them/market/ship them here.  We'll blame tv and video games and the movie industry till we're blue in the face.  You can blame history or individuals or anything you want.

This should not be a discussion about countries and their guns and the number of murders they have, but rather change.  How do you change things when voting is not enough? How do you change opinions if they are unhealthy and bad for the human race as a whole?  Sometimes they do it with force, that's why weapons were invented - to win wars.  Removing guns is a step in the right direction in my opinion, and so is doing away with missiles, torpedos, and the like.  At least then we'd be better off a little and could start discussing the dangerous "baseball bat". 

Yes I said it.  The baseball bat.  It's not a wonderful item built to hit balls out of the park.  No, it was originally called the club and it was designed to smash male rivals over the head and take their women!  That someone discovered it was useful in hitting balls out of the park later, is irrelevant! Down with the baseball bat! Down with America's pastime!! ^^

[Babar]

The problems is that these threads would fall into oblivion because criticising the problems of any country "except America" is not popular here. Which is sad...

I don't think that's the problem, Farl. See, America is a lot better known, and popular to a lot of people than Belarusans, Chinese, or North Koreans.

Anyhow, if you ask for a show of hands for all the people who support the Taliban, I doubt even a single person will step forward. If you ask for a show of hands of all the people who hate America, I don't think a lot of people will step forward. If you start a topic about how horrible the Taliban are, it probably won't be very popular, because the Taliban being horrible is a given. It might even turn into a discussion about American policy, because, face it, they got involved in a way that was probably very debateable. Still, debating American policy/Government doesn't (and shouldn't) equal America-bashing.

The world would be a so much nicer place if people examined policies and ideas based on their merits and demerits instead of cultural/political/religious links. Pahhh...so much for the fantasy.

About the gun issue, I'd say they'd be 3 types of violences to need defending against:

Pre-meditated:
These guys would have planned the whole thing. They've seen what's there, and prepared something to counter it. It's no use popping a gun in their face, because they've probably expected, and planned for it.

"Saw the opportunity":
They saw an unlocked door, a case of silverware through the window, a lone occupant in the house, and decided, why not? They took as much as they'd assume necessary for their job- a bat, a knife, or even a gun. If gun's were banned, they'd probably use something else- something less effective, and less deadly.

Heat of the moment/Accident:
Kid got pissed off at someone in school, fellow hears his mother insulted, child finds the drawer open, and checks out the gun to play with, they'd probably only use a gun if it was available. It's lack of availability would somewhat limit their options, and maybe even allow them time to cool down.

The first case, gun or no gun, that probably won't be the determining factor. The last case, lack of presence of gun would probably be an important factor.

The point isn't that humanity will always have violence. The point isn't that if guns weren't available they'd use something else. The point is that guns are more effective, more accessible, and more easily viewable as a weapon than a bat, a pen or a knife. Besides, condoning the use/possesion of a gun (a specialised killing machine), just doesn't seem to send the right signals to people.

Not that I think banning guns in the US now would make any difference. Maybe some stricter form of gun control is possible, but I think that's doubtful.

Ummmm...yeah. Everything up there is my own, unresearched, generalised opinion. Don't kill me, please.

[vict0r]

I actually thought of this as soon as I saw the pics, but didn't bother looking it up, but seems like someone else did.

In “Oldboy”, a South Korena movie, a man is abducted off the street and thrown in prison for 15 years without knowing the reasons. He is suddenly released, and goes on a vengeance-fueled rampage, racking up an impressive bodycount, before meeting his nemesis, the man who imprisoned him â€" a young, rich, wealthy, and smooth man who was also having an affair with his sister.

And it's occurred to me that Cho Seung Hui's rants about rich people and their debauchery seemed to come straight from “Oldboy”, as if he was talking about the villain in the film, Woo-jin, while he was, himself, the hero of “Oldboy”, Dae-su, a put-upon poor soul who was unjustly “oppressed”, and who would eventually cut out his own tongue using a knife.

For more details on “Oldboy”, see its Wikipedia page here.

Worst, if you look at Cho's poses in those pictures, those are all “movie” poses. Half of them looks like they're from Chow Yun Fat's movies. It's bad enough everything one of these maniacs goes on a shooting spree that they blame the movies, but now they're going to blame foreign movies. Get ready, folks, it's coming…

Source

[Andail]

Oldboy is a very beautiful movie in all its depravity. I was sick for days after having watched it, but I still don't regret seeing it.

[Disco]

Hehe... 4,250 is not really almost 16,000, Kenneth 

That was sarcasmic Nacho :o! I happen to disagree with the majority of my American brothers on this one. The figure still looks bad even when you compensate for proportion.


I want to move  :'(

[vict0r]

Excellent movie, yes! I just found out some days ago that it's actually the second movie in a trilogy, so I went and bought the two others today. "Sympathy for Mr. Vengeance" and "Lady Vengeance"