Virginia Tech massacre

[Sam.]

What annoys me the most about this, is that an event like this cannot change the attitude against guns. The NRA will blame the individual rather than a gun culture that seems, to me, to encourage this sort of behaviour as an appropriate way to deal with problems.

Perhaps an appropriate solution would be to arm all americans, by law, so that everyone can defend themselves.

I am truly sorry for the loss of these people, anyone who has been on IRC will know that for whatever reason, this has affected me and I hope that something good comes from this tragedy, the shame is that I know it wont.

[Raggit]

Is America the only country in the world where you can walk into your local pawn shop and buy a gun?  I went into one near me and asked about buying a handgun.  The guy behind the counter said that you have to be 21 to buy a handgun.  However, at age 18, you can buy a rifle or shot gun.  WTF?    :o

I did the same thing at the local Wal-Mart.  I went in and asked if they sold handguns.  The old guy behind the counter says, "No, we quit carrying those."  And I'm standing there looking at these big display cases of rifles, scopes, and shotguns.

Does any of this make ANY sense to anybody out there???  (Especially folks from other countries.)

Another interesting fact is that you can buy a liscense to carry concealed weapons.  Good idea or bad idea?

I don't know what to say about the whole guns and gun laws thing.  I tend to think that taking away our right to bear arms would just put more folks at risk, IF the whackos out there were able to find a supply on the black market. 

However, the United States is in hyper-security overdrive right now, so what next??  Metal detectors on every street corner? 

[LimpingFish]

It is quite astounding how he had the time to move from one end of the campus to the other.

The mass availability of guns in America is part of the problem, regardless of the circumstances of the individual in this case.

Guns are designed to kill and/or maim. That's a simple fact. Saying that you own a gun for defence is simply admitting that the culture you live in dangerous enough that the necessity to "protect" yourself, in such a pro-active manner, exists.

The fact that guns are available at Wal-Mart, or some such, is so alien to someone outside American culture that they can't apply the same situation to their own.

The fact that you own a gun means, on some level, that you are prepared to kill to defend your person/family/property. Owning a gun serves no other purpose. It is not a deterent. Waving a gun at someone will have little affect other than to escalate the situation, especially if the other person happens to be armed.

Arming everybody won't result in less shootings. Taking everybodies guns away might.

[Raggit]

Is owning a gun for  defense a bad thing?  Especially in such a violent nation?

In America, most of the rednecks who literally have rooms full of guns always get very defensive in this argument, because they "only use them for hunting," and so therefore, a gun does serve a purpose.  They miss the point that the whole purpose of the weapon is still to kill. 

But then again, do those types even factor into the argument?  I'm pretty sure that all of the good ol' American gun nuts that I know would never shoot anybody, they're just gun fanatics who like to kill animals.  But still, is there something wrong with somebody to begin with that has a real gun obsession?

[Darth Mandarb]

Sorry guys ... again, I see the point(s) you're making.  But I simply don't buy that somebody is sitting around and says, "gosh ... I CAN get a gun, so I'll go kill some folk".  Just simply don't agree with that.  A person that wants to commit a violent crime is going to do it with or without a gun.

Is a person stabbed to death any more/less dead than a person shot and killed?

(the reason I made the point about the poisoning the soup is to counter the rebuttal that it's far harder to kill 33 people with a knife than with a gun)

I do agree that there are WAY too many guns.  I didn't mean to imply otherwise.  I just think there are deeper issues causing these things than the availability of guns.  And again, as I said before, if you remove people's right to own a gun legally, you're simply not going to stop those that want/get them illegally.  I wish it weren't so ... but it is.

This is one of those issues that people tend to stand 100% on the left or 100% on the right.  I'm the odd ball standing in the middle I guess.  I would love to see less guns on the street but I'm enough of a realist to know that removing the legal right to own guns isn't going to lower this number.  At the same time, though I don't personally own a gun, I love to go shooting ocassionally.  I have no intention of ever shooting anybody (and hope I never have to) but I like going to the range with my father and shooting some paper targets.

The very last thing I want to make people think is that I'm a card carrying member of the NRA ... I'm not.  I'm personally sickened by these types of events and would be willing to take a shot at (pun intended) ANY solution that is realistic.  But the sad truth, as I see it, is that removing the second ammendment won't make a damn bit of difference.

[Tuomas]

I heard it was a lover story gone bad on the news just now... This sounds so much like a cliché, a very unhappy one.

[Fleshstalker]

I hate it when stuff like this happen >:(s. All the channels want to cover this news all freaking day long. I can' watch my TV programs that I like. I missed one of my soap operas and now I'm missing the Maury show. Damn it!

[HillBilly]

I hate it when stuff like this happen >:(s. All the channels want to cover this news all freaking day long. I can' watch my TV programs that I like. I missed one of my soap operas and now I'm missing the Maury show. Damn it!

These god damn school shooters should be more considerate.

[Raggit]

Sorry guys ... again, I see the point(s) you're making.  But I simply don't buy that somebody is sitting around and says, "gosh ... I CAN get a gun, so I'll go kill some folk".  Just simply don't agree with that.  A person that wants to commit a violent crime is going to do it with or without a gun.

Is a person stabbed to death any more/less dead than a person shot and killed?

(the reason I made the point about the poisoning the soup is to counter the rebuttal that it's far harder to kill 33 people with a knife than with a gun)

I do agree that there are WAY too many guns.  I didn't mean to imply otherwise.  I just think there are deeper issues causing these things than the availability of guns.  And again, as I said before, if you remove people's right to own a gun legally, you're simply not going to stop those that want/get them illegally.  I wish it weren't so ... but it is.

This is one of those issues that people tend to stand 100% on the left or 100% on the right.  I'm the odd ball standing in the middle I guess.  I would love to see less guns on the street but I'm enough of a realist to know that removing the legal right to own guns isn't going to lower this number.  At the same time, though I don't personally own a gun, I love to go shooting ocassionally.  I have no intention of ever shooting anybody (and hope I never have to) but I like going to the range with my father and shooting some paper targets.

The very last thing I want to make people think is that I'm a card carrying member of the NRA ... I'm not.  I'm personally sickened by these types of events and would be willing to take a shot at (pun intended) ANY solution that is realistic.  But the sad truth, as I see it, is that removing the second ammendment won't make a damn bit of difference.

I tend to agree with Darth.  Availability of weapons isn't what is causing killing sprees are murder.  It's something more than that.  You might as well blame the video game industry if you're going to blame guns themselves.  

[Eigen]

I think if guns weren't so easily available these kinds of things wouldn't happen so often at least. Because when you're angry or whatever that causes you to do something like this you'll just grab a gun and go. Otherwise you'd had to come with something else and actually PLAN and do stuff before doing anything. And during that time people tend to come down rather than acting on first emotion.

[LimpingFish]

Guns may not be the problem, per se, but the general availability of them makes them the disgruntled whackjob's weapon of choice.

You can mow down a room full of people with an AK-47 quicker than the time it would take to get your knife out of your sock.

I just don't see the logic in selling guns like TV sets.  You sell a gun to a person, he has one of two things on his mind.

One: It's for his own protection.

Two: He's got a grudge and a great idea to make himself feel better.

You sell a TV to a person, and there's a remote chance he might use it to bash someone over the head. More than likely, though, he just wants to watch some TV.

[Darth Mandarb]

I just don't see the logic in selling guns like TV sets.  You sell a gun to a person, he has one of two things on his mind.
One: It's for his own protection.
Two: He's got a grudge and a great idea to make himself feel better.

I don't think you can so easily narrow a gun purchase down to those two reasons.  I have had a mind to purchase a gun before.  I enjoy target shooting.  I enjoy the feeling of shooting.  It's very relaxing for me.  I'm not violent and have no intention of shooting anybody.  But I wasn't thinking of getting it for either of those two reasons.  (for the record I don't own a gun)

Now ... I don't have the statistic to back this up, but I'd wager that the percentage of violent crimes committed with legally purchased guns is very low compared to the number of violent gun crimes committed with illegal guns.  I think most people that legally own guns do so for other reasons than committing crimes with them.

I look at it like this: If I was disgruntled (or pyschotic) ... and was going to commit a [gun] crime.  I certainly wouldn't go out, register, and obtain the gun I plan to use in a legal manner.  I'd get it from some junky down on 8th and Ocean so it couldn't be traced back to me.  Removing my right to obtain the gun legally isn't going to stop the junky from selling it to me "on the streets".

I think if guns weren't so easily available these kinds of things wouldn't happen so often at least. Because when you're angry or whatever that causes you to do something like this you'll just grab a gun and go. Otherwise you'd had to come with something else and actually PLAN and do stuff before doing anything. And during that time people tend to come down rather than acting on first emotion.

This is another area where I can present both sides of the coin ... yes, you're right, it would seem logical that if it were not so easy to obtain the guns these shooting-sprees would occur less.  However, one could also argue (as I pointed out before) that the violent person might then just lace the cafeteria's soup with cyanide (or some other poison).  Mass murder is mass murder, gun or poison.

I would agree that, in most situations, taking a few minutes to collect yourself could lower the anger enough to stem the desire to commit the crime ... but somebody willing to do what this guy did probably isn't going to take the time to chill.  He's gonna grab the first weapon(s) he can find and do the deed.  If there's no gun at hand, he'll turn to something else.

So yes, if he grabs a knife instead ('cause guns aren't easily available) he might kill less people ... however, it's still a deeper issue at play here than the availability of the guns.

[Evil]

I don't really have anything to add to the "argument" over guns, but I do find it very interesting how non-Americans feel about out gun control. Interesting debate.

[Sparky]

It's sad when one person, no matter how distressed, puts their own feelings before everyone else's and does something like this. My sympathies go out to everyone affected by events like this, from massacres to sex crimes to domestic violence.

I grew up in a highly populated urban area in the U.S.A.. The middle school I went to had random metal detector sweeps and a day care center for those 13 and 14 year olds with children of their own. School shootings, rapes, etc. are all part of the landscape where I live. While they are lamentable, I find I take events like this very much for granted. It's valuable to me to see the more objective reactions of people who live outside this mindset.

I see gun control as an issue, and I feel tighter limits or a general ban would help a bit. Another more difficult issue is how to remedy the culture of apathy and disconnectedness that is so common in this country's large cities.

[Disco]

I'm of the mind that, yes, some disturbed people will not be stopped from going on a rampage for whatever their reason, but if guns were off the public market, then there is a very good chance a substantial portion of those who may start a massacre would have to look into alternatives. In this case I can see the more extreme nut doing something more diabolical, and the person who is just emotionally unstable or angry having more time to think about what they are doing, rather than having the luxury of impulse with a gun in their dresser. Of course you can never take guns completely out of the picture, you do what Kirk did in the Star Trek: Original Series episode "Arena" (season 1, episode 19) and resort to a length of bamboo, some sulfur and coal, and a huge diamond. However, I cannot accept that the figures of violent deaths in the United States would remain the same ridiculous number with guns or without. I don't buy that.

Personally, I am not worried about having to defend myself. I got an A- in kickboxing (would have been a solid A, but I missed a few days ), so if I had to I can take care of myself. I would not let fear drive me to carry a concealed weapon. I have not, do not, and will never own any guns, and no I am not counting the 2 rifles my idiot father bought me one Christmas  because he desperately wanted me and my brother to be hunters. I only used them (compulsory -_-) for target practice on cans, and eventual had him sell them (to responsible hunters) and I became vegetarian

[BOYD1981]

didn't Wal-Mart stop selling handguns and semi-automatic whatnots (and ammo?) due the actions of Michael Moore and his 'Bowling for Columbine' documentary on the basis that handguns and machine guns don't serve any purpose whereas rifles and shotguns are use for hunting and sport?
and, although i am not 100% sure about this, isn't this the first really bad school shooting in america since Columbine in 1999? if it is then that's 8 years without a major incident at a school, now who's to say whether or not that could be down to Wal-Mart's decision to lower the choice of firearms available legally at their stores?
it would definitely be interesting to get hold of the gun crime statistics from 1990 to 2006 and compare the first 8 years to the second...

[Disco]

The specific retailer in Bowling for Columbine was K-Mart, which is still a national chain of Wal-martesque stores, but is a lot less visible and many of the stores are closing. The reason for the confrontation at K-Mart headquarters was because the offenders purchased their ammunition there, but Wal-Mart most likely took the event as a cue to pull handguns from their stores.

although i am not 100% sure about this, isn't this the first really bad school shooting in america since Columbine in 1999?

The reports put this as the worst school shooting full stop

[LimpingFish]

Yes, Darth, hunting is fine too. I left it out because to own a hunting rifle is to own a very specific style of weapon, although just as capable of mis-use in the wrong hands. Plus hunting rifles aren't easy to conceal and are generally of the "one pull of the trigger = one bullet" - type manual reload mechanism (I would guess).

Similar types of weapons are used for hunting in the UK also, so for me to include them as part of America's gun culture would be hypocritical.

This profile of Cho Seung-hui raises some interesting points.

"The Tribune also reported that Cho had shown recent signs of violent behaviour, including starting a fire in a dormitory and allegedly stalking some women."

There are people like this in all societies, not just the US. But lax attitudes towards the availability of guns in America enables these people to do this kind of damage, whereas in another country, where guns aren't so readily available, there may be less chance of it reaching these levels.

And it is only less of a chance, as people with a desire to kill will find a way.

[Fleshstalker]

I hate it when stuff like this happen >:(s. All the channels want to cover this news all freaking day long. I can' watch my TV programs that I like. I missed one of my soap operas and now I'm missing the Maury show. Damn it!

These god damn school shooters should be more considerate.

They indeed should be more considerate by not shooting people. Bastards make me miss my shows.

[Pumaman]

I tend to agree with Darth.  Availability of weapons isn't what is causing killing sprees are murder.  It's something more than that.

If I remember correctly, Canada and Switzerland have similar levels of gun ownership to the US, yet don't seem to get the random shooting sprees. But then, that could simply be down to the size of the population in each country and with the US having 50x more citizens than Switzerland, it's 50 times more likely that you'll find a nutter in there.