I've tried modelling and want to take it serously but I cant decid on a program, I think the most popular ones would be the best because there would be more of a community and help. Cinema 4D? 3Ds Studio Max 7?
Try Blender, it's free.
Also try the learning edition of Silo, it's free, or Gmod by 3d max, it's not good in the slightest but it'll get you used to max if you decide to use it
3ds max is a great program but it's not a MODELLER although it can model, that's not the easiest place to model
same with C4D...
check out Silo, download the free 14 day trial
after that try wings
but blender has no ZVarily.. always keep that in mind!
seriously, most people i know use 3dsmax or blender.
i'd prefer blender, if i ever figur that interface out.
I use Rhino 3 and find it very good for modelling - although it takes a while to figure out how to model complex surfaces. I believe it's *much* better at modelling than 3ds max (which I haven't used in a long while.)
I use Flamingo for rendering and I'm quite happy with it. If you give a try to Rhino and/or Flamingo, make sure you have the latest fixes, though. For game graphics, the built-in Rhino renderer is probably good, but it doesn't have support for plants and has no material editor.
I don't have much experience with other renderers, so if someone can suggest something good (and not too expensive), I'd appreciate it. I used to use Truespace (a bit, it was OK) and Bryce, too.
I think NURBS are pretty much dead, and good riddance...
Quote from: stuh505 on Sun 24/04/2005 05:54:05
I think NURBS are pretty much dead, and good riddance...
I like it, mostly because I don't have to work with meshes. It's more natural to me to define a surface by drawing a few curves. Also, I like its interface a lot more than most other 3D programs I tried.
McNeel plans to release a Rhino 4 in the near future, it'll have a lot of nice features. As I said, I haven't used 3ds max for a long time (lacking $3500 to buy it ;) ) and at that time it was pretty complicated.
I'm not pushing Max, although I disagree with it being more complicated...I think it gets it's popularity from it's being the simplest one to learn
I'd recomend Blender, it's free and not really that hard to use once you learn how.
Quote from: hajo on Sat 23/04/2005 20:48:53
but blender has no ZVarily.. always keep that in mind!
I think you guys are just making up features to make Blender look bad. Does 3DS have a monkey primitive? Blender does. :P
Monkey primitive is soooo 1997. Get with the times, man! We live in the age of ZVarily.
For me, I'm impressed by some of the features and overall niftyness of 3DSMax. However, the first brand-name program I messed with I also found the most intuitive and easy-to-use: Rhinoceros. I quite like it. It has it's downsides, of course, but for modelling the CAD-type structure seems more natural than the primative-modification of 3DSMax. Blender I found incomprehensible. Of course, given more than 10 minutes of attention, I might've learned something but if I can't pick up a program and right-away do something cool in it, I just stick with what I have.
Besides, Rhino's got the Hyperbolic Anthromorphization feature.
Quote from: shbazjinkens on Sun 24/04/2005 08:21:52
Quote from: hajo on Sat 23/04/2005 20:48:53
but blender has no ZVarily.. always keep that in mind!
I think you guys are just making up features to make Blender look bad. Does 3DS have a monkey primitive? Blender does. :P
I made this 3D model of a ninja using ONLY ZVarily and a extra frothy chocolate milkshake:
(http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/zvarily.GIF)
It could be perceived as an allegory of the Russian Revolution, in which the lasers represent communism.
And Blender represents something which is being shot at by a laser.
Just curious: can you use 4 views in Blender? I tried Blender several times, but it always gave me headaches when I tried modelling something complex. I couldn't figure out if I can set more than one view (having one perspective and the others as top/front/side.) That was the major turn-off for me :( , I need multiple views to work with a 3D program.
Since stuh505 said 3ds max is supposed to be very easy to learn, I may give it a shot if I can get my dirty hands on a recent copy. :)
One thing I will say for Blender is that I've heard good things about the LSCM mapping capability. Since Blender is free, that makes it a potetial reason to use it...simply for setting mapping coords. I downloaded it but could not figure out how in the heck to use the LSCM tool...I messed around with it for a few hours and finally gave up.
But here are some questions to the Blender fans--
1. Dynamics
a. can you do basic physical simulations, aka a bowling all knocking over pins?
b. does it have built in hair dynamics, or plugins that do a good job?
c. does it have built in cloth dynamics, or plugins that do a good job?
d. does it have a good particle system?
e. support soft bodies?
2. Characters & Rigging
a. can you build a full FK/IK rig thats practical to use?
b. how is skin weighting assigned?
3. Compatibility
a. can you import/export fbx?
b. can you export rib?
c. can you model with subdiv surfaces?
4. Rendering
a. SSS?
b. efficient hair shader support?
c. radiosity?
d. global illumination?
e. support subdiv surfaces?
f. how well does it support displacement mapping?
g. can you batch render in the background?
5. Material editor
a. layer based or node based?
b. generate procedurals?
c. animated textures?
Quote from: Traveler on Sun 24/04/2005 14:16:19
Just curious: can you use 4 views in Blender?
To use multiple views you split the main viewport by right clicking on the dividers on the top and right sides and choosing "Split." You can do this as many times as you want with any of the viewports.
Quote from: stuh505 on Sun 24/04/2005 16:32:34
One thing I will say for Blender is that I've heard good things about the LSCM mapping capability. Since Blender is free, that makes it a potetial reason to use it...simply for setting mapping coords. I downloaded it but could not figure out how in the heck to use the LSCM tool...I messed around with it for a few hours and finally gave up.
Select faces (easiest using face select tool), press U, select LSCM. Full release log of the modern UV features is here (http://www.blender3d.org/cms/UV-editor___Image_window.222.0.html) and specifically LSCM here (http://www.blender3d.org/cms/UV_Unwrapping.363.0.html). It also has texture baking, which is relatively new.
Quote from: stuh505 on Sun 24/04/2005 16:32:341. Dynamics
a. can you do basic physical simulations, aka a bowling all knocking over pins?
b. does it have built in hair dynamics, or plugins that do a good job?
c. does it have built in cloth dynamics, or plugins that do a good job?
d. does it have a good particle system?
e. support soft bodies?
No to a, b, c. Yes to d,e. Softbodies are actually going to be fully released in the next version but have been around in Tohuppu Blender for a long time. The particle system will animate for fur, look through the release logs for something on that.
Quote from: stuh505 on Sun 24/04/2005 16:32:342. Characters & Rigging
a. can you build a full FK/IK rig thats practical to use?
b. how is skin weighting assigned?
Yes.. skin weighting is assigned to verteces either in groups or one by one.
Quote from: stuh505 on Sun 24/04/2005 16:32:343. Compatibility
a. can you import/export fbx?
b. can you export rib?
c. can you model with subdiv surfaces?
No a,b.. and to c, WTF, have you ever downloaded it?
Quote from: stuh505 on Sun 24/04/2005 16:32:344. Rendering
a. SSS?
b. efficient hair shader support?
c. radiosity?
d. global illumination?
e. support subdiv surfaces?
f. how well does it support displacement mapping?
g. can you batch render in the background?
New Python scripts for a (http://www.elysiun.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=36494) but not implemented into BF Blender yet. Radiosity has been there ever since I've used it, which was years ago. GI is accomplished using a sphere with lamps particle emitted from its verteces according to its normals. With subdiv surfaces, again, wtf? Have you seen the galleries, or.. I just don't know why you would ask that. Displacement mapping sucks (http://www.blender3d.org/cms/Displacement_mapping.37.0.html). No batch rendering since Blender is so light on memory, if I need to do more than one render at once and it's not an animation I just open two instances. No hair shader support, people have just started bitching about the lack of modern shaders lately.
Quote from: stuh505 on Sun 24/04/2005 16:32:345. Material editor
a. layer based or node based?
b. generate procedurals?
c. animated textures?
Yeah to all of those.. you really haven't made a qualified effort to use this program before, have you? I mean, subsurfaces and procedurals are so basic and necessary for any 3d program that I don't know how you would have missed them if you tryed to do anything significant. If you want to learn to use it, go here (http://blender3d.org/cms/Using_Blender.80.0.html), but if you just want to continue badmouthing it for years like it's a piece of trash at least do it on the premise that you've never genuinely tryed to do anything with it. I hear people all of the time saying, "I couldn't make a cube, so I closed it." Well I really have to wonder if using any 3d program was ever that easy, it certainly wasn't any easier for me with other new programs like Lightwave and AutoCAD. Sometimes people need to just get off of their high horses and pick up the manual or a tutorial.
I wasn't badmouthing Blender, relax.
And no, I have not attempted to really learn Blender...I was asking those list of questions to get a sense on simply what Blender can do. I don't really plan on ever learning Blender, except for checking out some features someday like LSCM, because I am happy with other programs, but I was just curious what you CAN do with Blender.
Quote from: shbazjinkens on Sun 24/04/2005 18:01:21
Quote from: Traveler on Sun 24/04/2005 14:16:19
Just curious: can you use 4 views in Blender?
To use multiple views you split the main viewport by right clicking on the dividers on the top and right sides and choosing "Split." You can do this as many times as you want with any of the viewports.
Oh, man, thanks, I couldn't figure this out! I didn't see a menu item anywhere in Blender that would suggest that it is capable of having multiple views. I tried resizing the one view and other windows but didn't think of right-clicking the divider. Thanks once more, I'll give it another shot.
Quote from: Traveler on Sun 24/04/2005 23:05:51
Quote from: shbazjinkens on Sun 24/04/2005 18:01:21
Quote from: Traveler on Sun 24/04/2005 14:16:19
Just curious: can you use 4 views in Blender?
To use multiple views you split the main viewport by right clicking on the dividers on the top and right sides and choosing "Split." You can do this as many times as you want with any of the viewports.
Oh, man, thanks, I couldn't figure this out! I didn't see a menu item anywhere in Blender that would suggest that it is capable of having multiple views. I tried resizing the one view and other windows but didn't think of right-clicking the divider. Thanks once more, I'll give it another shot.
Just pop into elysiun.com forums/blender general any time you have a question, people are quick to respond.
Quote from: shbazjinkens on Sun 24/04/2005 08:21:52
Quote from: hajo on Sat 23/04/2005 20:48:53
but blender has no ZVarily.. always keep that in mind!
I think you guys are just making up features to make Blender look bad. Does 3DS have a monkey primitive? Blender does. :P
I knew it, I knew it, I knew it!
Actually, Blender
does look pretty cool. I tried it a few months ago, but I really didn't have the time to get into it.
Wow, Silo is really neat one.
Never seen anything so simple, yet powerful! before.
I definetly second the recommendation.
yeah. after having used max to model for a good 6 months, I switched over to silo...and I was producing my best modelling work in it on the same day after only following 1 tutorial. that's is the amazing thing of subdivision modelling and why I recommend it so much.
i urge you to check out the topology brush too, it's pretty cool...and not found in any other program. it can also be used as a way to simplify a mesh that is subdivided too much (for instance, ZBrush mesh). here's an experiment I did with it:
http://www.silo3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=23585#23585
silo is still very much a fledgeling program, but its only going to get better and more stable
I'm almost done with 'aquiring'' Cinema 4D, and cant find a decent place to learn the proper basics, video tutorials would be the most helpful. Silo doesnt look that good, if 3D Max & Cinema 4D is not that good at modeling why are all the pros using them?
Cinema 4D is by far the best 3D package to learn the craft on. I did, and I'm dumb as a mule ;D.
Blender scares me. I mean REALLY scares me! What is up with its interface?!
Possibly Carrera would suit a beginner...although I still say Cinema 4D.
Grab the demo version...
www.cinema4d.com
...and give it a try.
QuoteCinema 4D is by far the best 3D package to learn the craft on. I did, and I'm dumb as a mule .
When you say 'by far the best,' which other programs have you learned which you are comparing it to?
edit --
I haven't only played around in C4D very quickly, not enough time to get used to it...I remember being pretty perplexed by the UI but that's probably quick to get over...I will say that it seemed to have a very modern and well-programmed interface, much more so than archaic giants like Max and Maya.
I'm surprised nobody has mentioned XSI...my personal feel is that it won't be long before it dominates the professional market over max or maya. For that reason, I would suggest anyone with the money to put down for a 3D package to strongly consider XSI 4.2 Foundation (with limited version compared to the $7000 version), which is a miniscule $500...at the same price range as the "hobbyist" apps like LW and C4D.
Quote from: stuh505 on Fri 06/05/2005 04:35:58
When you say 'by far the best,' which other programs have you learned which you are comparing it to?
TrueSpace 4.3, Carrera 2, Amapi 6 (modeller), RealSoft 3D 4, and other specialist programs like Poser, Vue D'Esprit, Terragen etc.
Cinema 4D, in my humble opinon, offers power and stability along with a gentle learning curve.
Also Cinema 4D 6 CE, it's only limitation being a 640x480 render output, was available for FREE! :oÃ, Yes, FREE! You can keep your water-marked Maya and Max "Personal Editons" ;D
I liked what I saw of XSI but I'd still go with C4D ;D
EDIT: See here...
Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, http://homepage.eircom.net/~limpingfish/index.html
Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, ...to see the type of stuff I use C4D to do. ;D
I'm surprised at how nobody mentioned anim8or yet. Its rendering sucks, but as for modelling it kicks butt. There have to be converters to popular 3d formats. And the best part, it's completely free.