I've been single about a month, and I'm starting to get back in the saddle.
There was this girl in my class, I've talked to her a few times, and she's a really sweet girl.Ã, So I was contemplating asking this girl out, but I didn't really know what she thought of me.
Monday after class she was waiting for me out by my car, so I talked to her a little there, and I could kinda tell she was interested in me, 'cuz she kept smiling and blushing.
Wednesday was the last day of school before summer break.Ã, All day in class, she kept looking over at me and smiling, I could kind of tell the wheels in her head were turning, like she had something planned.Ã, As she was leaving class, she gave me this wierd smile... you know.Ã, So I'm all like, "Yeah, she's gonna ask me out!" :D I was more than psyched, I was dancing the cha-cha on cloud nine.
I get out to my car about a half an hour later, and I find this note sitting on my car seat under my cell phone, it basically said this, "Hi Sully.Ã, How are you?Ã, Have a great summer.Ã, You shouldn't smoke so much... blah blah blah..." and then I turn the note over, and it says on the back, "... I would LOVE to see you at church sometime.Ã, ;)"Ã, Then I look down at the car seat, and there's a pamphlet from her church sitting where the note was.
Now, to understand the irony in this situation, you have to understand that I'm not a religious person at all.Ã, I don't follow any religion, and if you look at me (piercings, tatoos, black clothes) you should be able to tell that I'm not the least bit pious.Ã, So to sum it up, there is a 0% chance that she'll ever see me at church.
I shoulda known too... she always wore dresses, and always had her long hair up in a bun (there's a funny cult around here where the women are only allowed to wear dresses, can NEVER cut their hair and always have to have it back in a bun or a ponytail).Ã, But I didn't really think of that until I found that pamphlet.
It's just such a buzz kill... I mean, there's nothing wrong with the fact that she's religious, she's a really sweet girl and I'd still date her anyway.Ã, But in a relationship, you have to at least have SOME things in common and you can't be trying to make the other person change their ways from this to that.Ã, Honestly, can you expect a relationship between a devoutly religious person and a (basically) anti-religious person to work out?Ã, I know that even if she would accept me for who and what I am and just like me for me, her family wouldn't think too highly of us being an item.Ã, Nor would the rest of her church community... :P
I don't know, I guess I'm just going to send her some flowers and a note explaining this dilemma to her, and we'll have to wait and see what happens.
I just thought this was kinda funny and had to share it.Ã, Anybody have any thoughts, or any stories where you were really excited about something, and it turned out to be something you really didn't expect or hope for?
OMG!!! YOU'RE THE BAD BOY!!! :D
Seriously, you are the bad boy that every goody two shoes religious girl wants... now act upon that! ;)
Don't go to church just to get the girl.Ã, Go only if you seriously want to go to church!
Think about this rationally ... unless this girl captivates your heart and soul and makes you think about a lifestyle change, there's (realistically) no future for you with her!
She probably sees you as the 'bad boy' (as OUQQ so eloquently pointed out!) and thinks she can show you the glory of her cul ... er. .. religion.
You see her as this symbol of purity and beauty ... the almost unattainable damsel.Ã, Or just a hot piece of ass.
If you start going to her church just to get some action your WHOLE relationship is starting under false pretenses.Ã, And a relationship begun that way is doomed from the start.
Now ... if you're just looking for some tail it might be worth it.Ã, However, you could spend your whole summer doing things you don't like (going to church) and in the end, if her convictions are strong enough, you accomplish nothing and have wasted your summer.
Then again ... there's something to be said about making new friends too.
She want's to FUCK you on the alter.
Quote from: Pirate Jack on Fri 21/05/2004 07:18:55
She want's to FUCK you on the alter.
With a sacrificial dagger!!
What makes me think Peter Thomas is going to reply soon...
I told this story to my brother today, and all he had to say was, "She's tryin' to recruit ya, eh?Ã, What?Ã, Do they make commission of some type off of that?".
I don't really see her as just a peice of ass (although, I'm not gonna lie, she is pretty f---in' fine!).Ã, Like I said, she's a really nice girl and I'd be absolutely STOKED to take her out sometime.
But the fact of the matter is, I wouldn't be caught dead in a church (...30 years later, at my funeral... :P).Ã, At A.A. I refuse to join in on the prayers they recite.
I'm pretty happy with who I am... and in the eyes of her church, yeah I'm a sinner... I smoke, I cuss, I have pre-marital sex.Ã, But that's me, that's who I am.Ã, I would never change just for some girl (I guess maybe it depends on what she wants me to change, some things I wouldn't mind doing differently), and I would certainly never waste my time posing as some goody-goody, going to mass just so I can get some ass (heh... that rhymes).Ã, Plus, that's highly disrespectful to her.
If she's just trying to "save me" (as the pamphlet so generously put it) or "trying to show me the light", then I won't have anything to do with her at all... I mean, she does all this to try and get me to go to church?!?!?...making me think she likes me? The hell is that?! That would be a really f---ed up thing to do...
I just got out of a long relationship with someone who never accepted me and was always trying to change me, and out of all that I learned an important lesson about what relationships are all about.
Hey, if all else fails, I'll still be friends with her.
why not speak about the pamphlet like friends?
ask her why she left it, is it because she wants to save your soul or just thinks her religion is the tops and wants to share it?
have you ever spoken about religion with her? i dunno about a note and flowers, if i were her [and i'm pretty fine so we're close] i'd rather it was brought to me from a person and not a note and if they wanted to bring flowers that's cool.
as far as things not being what i expected them to be, when I met Dave Gilbert he told me he was an 18 year old blond coed in a fur coat AND THAT'S ALL!! you can guess where that went...
Quote from: DGMacphee on Fri 21/05/2004 07:32:25
What makes me think Peter Thomas is going to reply soon...
*Holds Tongue* <- and that's not freaking easy for me. I think everyone knows my stance anyway. No reason to overkill.
Quote from: MrColossal on Fri 21/05/2004 07:57:34
as far as things not being what i expected them to be, when I met Dave Gilbert he told me he was an 18 year old blond coed in a fur coat AND THAT'S ALL!! you can guess where that went...
Well, I'm asuming you got it on! Who wouldn't! :D
The situation reminds me of the movie 'A Walk To Remember'. I think its a really good movie. Just hope that she doesnt have leukemia tho.
My advice: Get to know the girl better, even go to church with her. She would appreciate that, and even if you don't go again, thats your choice. But yeah talk to her about things, it would definately help with the situation that your in.
I would completely agree with auhsor. No one is expecting you to go to church for the first time and act all holy moly. Just go once, and see what this girl's motives are. No one says you have to go again if you're not interested, or you think this girl is trying to blackmail you or whatnot. But surely you could find ONE free Sunday Morning in your life, yes?
Quote from: Peter Thomas on Fri 21/05/2004 11:45:19But surely you could find ONE free Sunday Morning in your life, yes?
Watch out Sully! He's trying to brainwash you with his religious ways! ;D
Around here going to church with girls you want to date is the norm.. it's kind of an ice breaker. I doubt it's so much her trying to convert you as it is her trying to easily get to know you better (because EVERYBODY goes to church anyway, right?Ã, ;)).
I agree with Aushor ... going to church once will show her you're interested in her.
Then, as always, honesty is the best policy.Ã, Explain to her that you're interested in taking her out on a date sometime, but that church just isn't your thing and that you don't want to be something you're not just to get her attention.
If she's a normal, intelligent person (rather than a cultist fanatic) she'll probably be impressed by that.
Either way ... good luck bro!
QuoteI've been single about a month
Don't rebound on the church girl.
I see hurt coming your way. The sincerity that your post was written with just screams "run" to me.
I wouldn't go to church with her. It will give her the wrong idea. People shouldn't try to change people. It's just not right. If you want to change you should do it on your own.
Dropping the pamphlet without speaking to you about it in my opinion is rude. I have major issues with relgious recruiting anyway. I really think someone should get to know a person before they start pimping a GOD on them. That's just way too personal.
later,
-junc
I dunno. It sounds like a simple recon job. See the lost guy, give him a pamphlet. I mean, the polite thing would be a verbal invite. The note on the car is just too impersonal to show you the respect you deserve.
And stay away from church. They eat flesh and drink blood there.
Plus, have you ever heard of that massive war led by athiests spreading the word of atheism?
Religion has become another form of mass media anyway, they're just selling spirituality. It's really sad because, to some people, faith actually means something, to alot it's "Fill them pews people! we gotta prove that our god is bigger, stronger, and richer then theirs!"
How does she know that you dont already have faith in something else? it's like: "If you dont go to MY chruch, then your wrong!!" and even if you dont have any kind of faith or belief system, what business is it of hers anyway? It's supposed to be a personal choice, if I'm not mistaken, in christianity, you have to accept god into your heart in your own time... forced attrition doesn't cut it in my book. Besides, they're selling something they cant back-up anyway.
My advice: stay away from this one, you would have to work really hard to find some common ground in this relationship, and it would prolly be so far down the list of importance (you both like backgammon or some shit) that it would be buildiing the foundation of your relationship out of toothpicks on a fault line in the sand. ie: not very stable.
C.
I'm a religious person myself, but I don't see why, even if he believed in another religion there should be anything wrong with going to another church. It doesn't mean you've committed to anything. I sometimes go to Catholic mass with my friend, but I'm not Catholic nor interested in becoming a Catholic. There's a Hare Krishna temple several miles away. One of these days I'd like to visit it for Sunday feast and to dance the kirtan. It doesn't mean I have any interest in becoming a Hare Krishna.
Just be honest with this girl. Let her know you're not a religious person and have no interest in becoming religious, but be respectful about her religion. Attend her church, and enjoy the services for what they're worth.
Quote from: Mr. Hyde on Fri 21/05/2004 07:48:14If she's just trying to "save me" (as the pamphlet so generously put it) or "trying to show me the light", then I won't have anything to do with her at all... I mean, she does all this to try and get me to go to church?!?!?...making me think she likes me? The hell is that?!Ã, That would be a really f---ed up thing to do...
The real issue is whether she actually does like you or is pretending to like you.Ã, There are two things that can happen after you make it clear you have no interest in her church:
1. She continues to like you and doesn't care if you attend her church or not.Ã, This means her invitation was probably just a byproduct of her feelings for you and that her feelings are geniune.
2. She just ignores you afterward.Ã, This means her feelings were probably never genuine, and she just wanted to recruit you.
Quote from: Mr. Hyde on Fri 21/05/2004 07:48:14I just got out of a long relationship with someone who never accepted me and was always trying to change me, and out of all that I learned an important lesson about what relationships are all about.
Couples with different spiritual backgrounds almost invariably run into conflict at some time or another.Ã, If you're interested in a long-term relationship, she may not be in your best interest, although it's really impossible for anyone other than you and her to know this for a fact.Ã, If you're interested in a short-term thing or just being friends, why not go for it?
Sounds to me like you're both a bit shy about asking the other out.
Maybe the leaflet was just a way of reaching out.
I don't see why you should go to church though. If she's sensible, she'll understand that you don't need to be a Christian to be a good person and have morals. If not, then it probably won't work.
I've dated girls that are extreamly religious before. I told them I dont believe it it and they understood. Then again I got dumped for a "Bad Boy", but I dont think that will be an issue for you. ;)
Quote from: SteveMcCrea on Fri 21/05/2004 20:53:59I don't see why you should go to church though. If she's sensible, she'll understand that you don't need to be a Christian to be a good person and have morals. If not, then it probably won't work.
Hyde didn't mention the girl's religious affiliation. Why do you assume she's a Christian?
Many Christan groups are like that. I would know. My family's been trying to recuit me for years.
You guys are dogging on christianity though, regardless of the fact that nearly every religion has some verse written about how you need to try to convert or save other people by introducing them to your religion (seriously, it's almost in EVERY one).
Personally, I could never date a girl who was religious because of the fact that true religious people would never accept me as an atheist, but rather try to convert me or at least nag.
I don't see what all the fuss is about. Really, I don't.
Just go to church once. It's one day in your life, and you'll be there for about an hour and a half at the absolute most (unless it's some 6-hour long Worhsip thing for some strange reason). She obviously knows you're not Christian, and if she's in your class then she knows (to an extent) what you're like. She knows you don't act all God-like and Holy, so she won't be expecting you to act that way. If she's genuinely interested in you, she'll just be glad you made the effort to come along. And if she's a fraud - whooppee - you missed out on ONE morning (or evening) of your life.
Just go to see if she's for real or not, and let things happen from there.
Yeah i agree with what Peter Thomas just said. Church isn't that bad. Really it isn't. I guess you can relate better to some better than others, but I still don't see why people are afraid of going to church. They arn't trying to 'recruit' you. It is your own decision to change, if you believe what the bible says, and they arn't going to force it on you, tho it may seem that way. Christianity isn't about 'recruiting' people or being heaps religious. I hate religion. Religion is rules and regulations and stuff. Being a christion doesnt mean you have to do all those things. It's a reletionship.
I disagree.. it's very much like recruiting, whether you want to admit it or not. Many churches hand out forms that they ask you to fill your address and phone # and such in so they can mail you info and ask why you didn't come after the next Sunday (because some pass out roll calls).
Aside from that, I've met only one religious person who didn't ask me any questions or question my nonbelief when I told him I was an atheist. If you question it and badger people about it, then it's like you're trying to force your own beliefs on them. Bad. Bad and annoying as hell.
The best thing you can do is walk up to her and say that you would like to spend some time with her, but not at Church, because you would feel uncomfortable there. Arrange a place where you both would enjoy and have fun.
I'm not saying this because I'm anti-Church (Sure, I am, but it makes no difference in my opinion on relationships). If you were a Church going fellow there wouldn't be a problem. But since you have this dilemma, then there has no be some kind of acquiescence between the two of you. I mean, you wouldn't expect her to go to a Trent Reznor concert, would you? I'm sure the lass wouldn't feel very comfortable, just the same as you wouldn't feel comfortable going to Church.
I think for the first few meetings, you should find something that's familiar to both of you. Then, discuss where you guys want to go. Do you just want to hang out and have fun, or turn it into something serious? If you want to take it to the next step, and as you get to know each other more, then you both can step out your comfort zones. Maybe one day you can go to Church and one day she can come to one of your sacrificial goat meetings.
Good relationships are not built where one person expects another to change before you even start going out. If she says, "I won't date you unless you come to Church," then that shows no respect for how you feel. It'd be the same if you said to her, "I won't date you unless you come to a Marilyn Manson concert." If she expects you to go to Church before she dates you, it's not worth it. She's looking for something in you that isn't there. She must be willing to meet somewhere in the middle. That's how good relationships start.
Then learn about each other. Talk to each other, like people usually do. Find out more about her and tell her more about yourself. That way you might gain some more insight into her and she'll gain some more insight into you. And along the way, you might find some common interests.
Then you can take it to the next step.
But if she's expecting you do go to Church before anything else, turn and run. I'm not saying that because it's Church and I'm anti-Church. I'm saying that because she's not willing to respect your needs and expects you to conform to hers.
So, like I said, meet with her. Tell her you would like to spend some time with her. Tell her your dilemma. Tell her you'd feel better spending time with her in a place you'll both feel comfortable. If she understands, then she'll agree. Then you two crazy kids can organise a date you'll both enjoy.
Sincerely,
Dr Macphee
She was just being nice, if she really believed in the bible she would respect your desicion but still respect you as a nice person.
Quote from: LostTraveler on Sat 22/05/2004 03:39:54
She was just being nice, if she really believed in the bible she would respect your desicion but still respect you as a nice person.
Really, that's what I think too. Like I said, it's like an icebreaker around here, the possibility of you not going to church may not have even occurred to her, even though you point out obvious signs you display of it.
The way I would personally see it is this: I have invited people to attend church with me before, though I don't pressure anyone.Ã, However, I don't use this as a condition of friendship.Ã, Instead, I feel like I have something great to offer, something that has filled my life with happiness and made me a better person, something that gives my life meaning.Ã, To me, it's only natural I'd want to share the thing that has brought me such joy with others.Ã, If it doesn't bring them the same happiness, that's fine.Ã, To me, it's not a matter of recruiting to build up numbers.Ã, It's about sharing something I value very highly.Ã, Usually I wait for other people to take the initiative and ask me about my beliefs, though, rather than proselyte to others.Ã, Especially in a non-religious forum such as this one.Ã, We're all here to make and/or talk about games, not convert each other to our belief systems.Ã, And I think we've all done quite well so far to respect each others widely different beliefs.
And I certainly don't go around finding fault in others' beliefs, or telling people they're condemned to hell for not believing the way I do.
I think DG's on the right trail here. In most new relationships (friendships and intimate ones) it's best to meet or get to know one another in neutral territory. I don't see any reason to react defensively by presenting yourself as opposed to going to church. Why not just present yourself as you are and ask her to dinner or coffee or something? If she's interested in you, you can probably put the church issue on the back burner. If she's interested in getting you into a cathedral then it's all you'll probably hear about during an initial meeting anyway. I don't think there's any need not to give someone a chance just because they're religious and you shouldn't jump to conclusions about fanaticism just because she introduced the subject (and/or invitation) awkwardly.
Personally, I doubt I'd date someone who was an avid church-goer regardless of whether or not they ever invited me. Of course, that's just due to my own issues and not advice I'd extend.
Amen, Migs.
Though I agree with DG as well. I was under the illusion that - although you hadn't dated her - you were kind of friends or something similar. If you're not friends or anything, then Church is the wrong place to meet up. Not only would you be nervous 'bout the whole 'Christian' thing, but you wouldn't really be able to talk to her about anything because you don't KNOW anything she's into, and you probably wouldn't know her church friends, either.
So yeah, for a first meet up, go to neutral grounds - tell her you though she was interested in you (that way you get either a 'yes' or 'no' response and you'll know how to take the conversation further). If all goes well, you can make plans.
You're asking her to accept you for who you are, and I'm sure she's willing to do that, though it might be a nice (romantic?) touch to go to church just once to show that you accept her for who she is, as well.
Well, here's what I'm going to do...
1.Ã, I'm not going to show up at her church for mass one day.Ã, I don't even have any nice clothes that I can wear, because most of my clothes are black or white, and they all are mostly t-shirts and cargo pants.Ã, Aside from that, I won't go because I don't belong in a church... they smell funny, and there's too many crosses everywhere (yeah, lame excuse... but you know the reason why).
2.Ã, As per Eric's idea, I'm going to buy her some flowers and stop over at her house and tell her straight out, "I appreciate your invitation, but I'm not really a religious-type person. etc...Ã, However, if you'd like to go out to the movies or for coffee sometime, that'd be cool.Ã, You seem like a really sweet girl, and I would love to get to know you better, but I just wouldn't fit into a religious environment.Ã, Something like that just isn't me."Ã, Something along the lines of that.
I'm not really looking towards a lifestyle change just because of her.Ã, Like I said before, I'm fairly happy with the way I am.Ã, Because, if I'm not me, then who the hell am I?
Oh yeah, here's the note... (the one side anyway, I'm too lazy to scan the other side)...
(http://volcano.photobucket.com/albums/v11/bodyart/LetterFromVirginia.png)
I think I speak for everyone when I say we want invites to the wedding.
Yellow paper? Who the hell has yellow paper? Although that little heart in love is sugestive ;)
Maybe she likes altars... >.<
Here's another thought.
Maybe she's joking about the whole Church thing with you.
As in "I'd love to see YOU in Church (heheheh)"
Her name is Virginia? heh. It's probably a wonderful name and suits her brilliantly, but the only virginia's I've ever known were little old ladies with Grey hair and english accents. Sexy.
Unless she covers her body from head to foot, and refuses to make contact of ANY sort with the opposite sex, and refuses to drink tea, coffee and soft drink and believes that women should be seen and not heard, then she is OBVIOUSLY not a Christian, and she's just in it for the reputation :P
(That was me not being serious)
Quote from: Femme Stab Mode >:D on Sun 23/05/2004 13:09:45
Yellow paper? Who the hell has yellow paper? Although that little heart in love is suggestive ;)
Suggestive?!? The heart is like crying "Oh please, come and take me!" Besides, the paper looks like a result of fifty tries in order to perfect the casual-yet-groovy, suggestive-though-innocent -style. It's pretty obvious Virginia has a crush on Mr. Hyde.
Quote from: Peter Thomas
Her name is Virginia? heh. It's probably a wonderful name and suits her brilliantly, but the only virginia's I've ever known were little old ladies with Grey hair and english accents. Sexy.
Virginia is in the top ten of the sexiest English names. If I were Mr. Hyde, I'd go after Virginia if for nothing else but her name!
So, good luck on you Mr. Hyde. Remember to tell us everything about the first date.
Wow. It's different when you actually see the note. Screw common sense. Just go for it.
Quote from: Migs on Sat 22/05/2004 04:33:44
I feel like I have something great to offer, something that has filled my life with happiness and made me a better person, something that gives my life meaning.Ã, To me, it's only natural I'd want to share the thing that has brought me such joy with others.Ã, If it doesn't bring them the same happiness, that's fine.Ã, To me, it's not a matter of recruiting to build up numbers.Ã, It's about sharing something I value very highly.Ã,Â
Sounds like me trying to get my friends to listen to they might be giants and chicks on speed!
:P
Quote from: Peter Thomas on Sat 22/05/2004 01:31:56
I don't see what all the fuss is about. Really, I don't.
Just go to church once. It's one day in your life, and you'll be there for about an hour and a half at the absolute most (unless it's some 6-hour long Worhsip thing for some strange reason). She obviously knows you're not Christian, and if she's in your class then she knows (to an extent) what you're like. She knows you don't act all God-like and Holy, so she won't be expecting you to act that way. If she's genuinely interested in you, she'll just be glad you made the effort to come along. And if she's a fraud - whooppee - you missed out on ONE morning (or evening) of your life.
Just go to see if she's for real or not, and let things happen from there.
Religion is a commodity. Bought and sold. From the beggining. It's clear we created God in our OWN image, just to give us some kind of cosmic reason for existance and rules for living. However, some things in this universe are just too mysterious and great for us to know, and how can we be SO egocentric to think we have ONE IOTA of an inkling on how the creator, or God, works. We don't, and if you do - you're nucking futs.
Bt
Quote from: Blackthorne519 on Tue 25/05/2004 00:32:30
Religion is a commodity.Ã, Bought and sold.Ã, From the beggining.Ã, It's clear we created God in our OWN image, just to give us some kind of cosmic reason for existance and rules for living.Ã, However, some things in this universe are just too mysterious and great for us to know, and how can we be SO egocentric to think we have ONE IOTA of an inkling on how the creator, or God, works.Ã, We don't, and if you do - you're nucking futs.
Bt
You've forgotten that this is about a girl dude. There's no need for a rant against religion as a whole.
Yea, let's get back on topic please
anyway...
Blender sucks.
Clever, Eric. ::)
I just thought avoiding the discussing of religion vs. atheism was a good idea.
How did it go anyways Hyde?
it was a joke, LOL and all that
I would also not want an arguement that this board has seen oh so many times but i wasn't attacking you, just poking fun
Yeah, I was kinda unsure about starting this thread, as I didn't want it to turn into a jihad flamewar. It's like the old man in the movie Big Fish said, "Religion is something you should never talk about in public, because someone's always going to get offended." But so far, so good.
Anyway, back to the topic at hand. I haven't stopped over to talk to her yet. I still have another week before I go back to work, and then yet another week before I get paid. She lives two towns over from me, in Iola. That's a bit of a haul seeing as I'm broke as a joke. That and I'm busy packing up my stuff, I'll be moving out on my own in a few weeks.
You're probably wondering, "why not just call her?" Like Colossal said, it'd be more personal if I were to stop over and talk to her in person. Plus, I don't have her number... :-\
So right now, there's nothing I can do. I guess all I can do is sit and twiddle my thumbs for the time being. I know that's probably not the best idea, especially since I would like to get to know her. Because once I finally get paid in 2 weeks, she could have found another guy she's interested in and forgotten all about me (or have thought that I wasn't interested). But... hey hey, what can I do? :-\
QuoteReligion is a commodity. Bought and sold. From the beggining. It's clear we created God in our OWN image, just to give us some kind of cosmic reason for existance and rules for living. However, some things in this universe are just too mysterious and great for us to know, and how can we be SO egocentric to think we have ONE IOTA of an inkling on how the creator, or God, works. We don't, and if you do - you're nucking futs.
Bt
wtf? I don't recall defending religion at all in my post. I just said "go to church to get a girl". That sounds pretty un-related to your comment to me. But,
without starting a flame war, I'd ask you to actually study the beliefs of all religions before you make a gigantic generalization like "christians claim to know how God works". Fact is, we don't. And we admit it.
Anyway, Hyde, good luck with it. If she was interested enough to invite you to church (a gesture which could easily offend people) it's unlikely she'll forget about you quickly, so you've still got a chance ;D
Just phone her to say hi.
QuoteLike Colossal said, it'd be more personal if I were to stop over and talk to her in person.Ã, Plus, I don't have her number...
OH CRAP
I should read closer...