For Media Studies we have been looking at British cinema and discussing them in terms of "Britishness" as well as things like gender, class etc.
I'm British and I find the term extremely difficult to define.
We at AGS are a very culturally diverse group of people. What does the term "Britishness" mean to you? I am interested to see what answers I get from everyone, no matter where you come from.
One easy explanation is the geographical area that is the Great Britannia. Other than that you people are just alcoholics, class-thinking politics, angsty hooded aggressive preteens, and fat women who eat everything deep fried, have beautiful wit, famous humour and make rather good tv series and produce the best music. But that's just my impression as someone who's never been there.
The white trash of Britain are the whitest and trashiest people you can find. I'd rather live in Baghdad than in some chav-infested Brittish suburb.
The intellectuals are on the other hand amazingly learned and witty.
Humour and music, as Tuomas pointed out, are their strong points.
2 words come to mind...
AUSTIN POWERS
Three words come to my mind:
Black and Tans (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_and_Tans)
:P
Quote from: Tuomas on Tue 05/02/2008 15:55:18
you people are just alcoholics, class-thinking politics, angsty hooded aggressive preteens, and fat women who eat everything deep fried
You took the words right out of my mouth.
And they say irc isn't real life. Well, #AGS is :D
Can I say Monty Python? Can I, can I, can I? :D
http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=nLJ8ILIE780&feature=related
Quote from: Emerald on Tue 05/02/2008 18:09:15
Three words come to my mind:
Black and Tans (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_and_Tans)
:P
Damn, I wanted to do a rebellion-themed joke. >:(
Is it possible to define "Britishness", when Britain is so multi-cultural at present, without sounding like someone from the BNP? Would a British-born person of Asian lineage define it differently?
I could say the same about Ireland, of course.
When I think of Britain, I think of fish and chips, The Bill, red buses, football hooligans, "I say!", the wombles, The Beano, string vests...I mean the list is endless.
But do any of those things "define" Britishness?
We could look to WW2, and what it meant to be British then ("...shall never surrender!" and all that), but would such a definition of Britishness be relevant today?
To America, British people seem to be all about tea and crumpets, and Dick Van Dyke-esque accents.
I'll give the basics of what I perceive to be "British", from various people I've encountered in Britain. There's exceptions, of course.
Nationalism/Patroitism/Etc.
Most folk are proud to be "British", even though they don't seem to know why. They also neglect all of the details that make Britain not something to be proud of. Britain dislikes Germany for the Nazis, but Britain invented the Concentration Camps (Boer War). Thinks America is dumb, yet emulates and sucks up to them at every chance. Critises Americans for War issues, like turning up late and shooting us, but forgets we bought weapons from them, and recently failed to even equip some of our troops properly.
Scots, Welsh and Irish don't like to be mistaken for English. English make jokes about the others, usually involving grease, sheep or stupidity.
Sport, mostly English.
Fanatical about it, despite a general ineptitude at actually playing it. Won the World Cup in '66, haven't won crap since. The latest team, according to the papers today, were actually surprised to have to train. Won some Rugby thing recently, thanks to some guy kicking a ball a lot. Parades in the streets to celebrate. Subsequently failed to hold the title, I think. Has Wimbledon Tennis tournament, but hasn't won it since the '70s. Britain's best hope to win it in recent years was a Canadian. Cricket's in there somewhere, but that's more of a sleep aid than a sport.
Scotland, Wales and Ireland might have sport, though are most likely even worse at it than the English.
Food.
Curry is the most popular restaurant/take away. Actual British cuisine is usually rather bland, or rather off putting. Pies and Licker, Pie and Mash, Grease on a Plate with some breakfast floating on it, Deep Fried Anything, Cheese on Toast, Sheep stomaches, Jellied Eels, etc. Yum? The English do make the best mustard, though.
Racism.
Despite pretending to be multi-cultural, it's mostly groups of the same cultures sticking together. Even then, those cultures generally dislike immigrants (Blacks/Indians etc voted for the BNP, in reaction to the Kosovans in London). Londoners and the south generally dislike anyone north of watford. Usually for good reason. The average IQ seems to drop the further north you go. Scotland barely has the ability to communicate these days. The west are ridiculed too, as they all sound like wannabe pirates or the nation that forgot vowels. The south east doesn't realise they sound just as awful, with Londoner's saying things like "Shu'(t) i'(t), You Sla-a-ag" a lot, and the rest speaking in Chavinese.
Music.
Had some decent stuff in the past, like the 60's and 70's. Then a few things in the 90's. The rest is better not mentioned.
Art.
Some guy pickles stuff. Some girl speaks like she's chewing a wasp. Also stole Rolf Harris, who returned to art after watching animals die.
Drinks.
Tea, the Fuel of the British workforce. Also, thanks to American culture there's plenty of coffee shops. Pubs and sometimes Clubs, are the main entertainment venues. Getting drunk seems like the only way to enjoy yourself. Teetotallers are usually either Gay or have killed someone in a Drink Driving accident. They're often back on the roads fast enough though.
TV.
Had some decent comedies in the past, like Python, Fawlty Towers, Red Dwarf and Spaced. Mostly though, it's formulaic sitcoms with the same jokes every episode. Other highlights include reality shows, reality shows involving cheap celebrities, cookery shows, celebrity cookery shows, and dreary soaps showing how miserable British life actually is.
Celebrities.
In America, it's movie stars and the like. In Britain, it's sportmen's spouses, people who have been on reality shows, soap actresses, and a bank manager.
Conversation.
Hot topics like the weather, how much things cost, how bad things in Britain are, what the weather was like in the past, and sport. Now and then you get meet someone who has just returned from abroad, so you can hear just how much better it is, but mostly this concentrates on the weather.
Basically, being British is a delicate combination of Denial, Misplaced Pride, Stupidity and Hypocracy.
Well, being an American, my view of the world is tragically skewed ;) Joking aside, I know more than a few of my fellow Americans who view the world in a fashion disturbingly like those puppets in Team America, so take what I say with a grain of salt.
When I think of Britishness, I think English. Irish, Scottish, etc get their own sub-category in my brain. Right or wrong, to me British = English. And English brings to my mind (such as it is) Stiff upper lip; dry wit; the BBC; Doctor Who; terrible food (sorry); rain and fog; and a rather remarkable quiet determination about things. To refine that last point further, I'd like to think that if we Americans would just shut the hell up more often and keep our "I've got something I'm gonna say" to ourselves a bit more, we'd be a bit more like the Brits. We both have the same "can do" attitude about things, but the Brits don't seem quite so quick to brag about it as we are. Also, the Brits I've known over the years were generally affable but certainly not anyone to be f*cked with. Of course, most of the Brits I've known were during my years in the military, so take that for what it's worth. Also, most of what I know about England involves London, Kent and a few other places I was too drunk to remember very clearly. Stonehenge and a wall left over from Roman times come to mind, but it's all a bit alcohol-fuzzy around the edges and time isn't helping. What can I say, I was young and thought I had brain cells to spare.
Anyhoo, that's what I think when I think of "Britishness," which is a word that's hard to define and also one that my spell checker doesn't recognize.
God save the queen and all that. (Queen was an awesome band, by the way. Thank you for that one, Great Britain. Sorry we only had Britney Spears to offer in return.)
- Ponch
Freddie Mercury was of Indian descent, and born in Zanzibar.
And Queen without Freddie has sadly become a mockery of what it once was.
I thought Queen as a band had died with Freddy, and thought they had all accepted it. Ah well.
The very first thing Britain springs to mind is, AMAZING actors. Celebrities and non-celebrities alike.
I've never been to the UK and I personally met only 2 or 3 Brits myself.
Which is why I shall state my opinion. Time to overgeneralise!
a) Britishness is dealing with the consequences of having been an empire once. And thinking it's unfair that you have to do it. Britishness is believing (deep inside) in the past long gone, be it the (now almost totally gone) Green Countryside, the romanticised image of aristocracy, or practically all things with the world “Royal†in them.
b) Britishness means making a TV programme about very expensive cars that people watch only to see two guys argue about teeth whiteners and mock one another. And, against all reason, making it fun to watch.
c) Britishness means laughing all the time at everyone and everything, no exceptions, for the sake of laughing.
f) Britishness also includes going for holidays to another country, drinking a lot, making total idiots out of oneself, trying to be “friendly†with the natives (whilst being drunk) and, in the end, making all the clubs in the city refuse to sell you alcohol.
g) Britishness means not speaking with RP (or: Queen English); only about 10% of Brits do it.
h) Britishness is what fuels British comedy shows and makes them genuinely funny.
i) Britishness means saying “oh, this will be ever so [insert adverb here]†with a straight face.
j) Britishness means... no, it's the other way round: the Beatles, Iron Maiden and Queen mean Britishness (Mercury was British, I think, regardless of him being born to an Indian family of Persian origin in Africa, see: Radio Gaga music video).
k) Britishness means making foreigners wonder whether you're being friendly in a “British†way or you're actually offending them, their cultural heritage and history.
l) Britishness means hurting people because of football.
m) Intelligent Britishness is being aware of all of the aforementioned points and nonetheless being an alright open-minded person and fun to hang out with. Yup, there are such Brits out there.
BTW, is “Brit†offensive to the Brits?
Quote from: Renal Shutdown on Tue 05/02/2008 23:36:47
Freddie Mercury was of Indian descent, and born in Zanzibar.
And Queen without Freddie has sadly become a mockery of what it once was.
Sure, I know. But I think Queen, I think Britain. Hell, I'm sad to say that I'm old enough to have seen Queen in concert. Damn, that band was absolutely awesome.
And Rui, there is no Queen without Freddie. It's all a conspiracy! (By the Freemasons or the Illuminati or something). Made in Heaven was barely a Queen album and after that, nothing else is Queen, no matter what Roger and Brian say.
To the topic at hand, I asked my girlfriend over dinner tonight what she thought of when I said "Britishness" and, without missing a beat, replied "James Bond, Princess Di, fish and chips, those cool buses, and Shaun of the Dead."
Thank you, Great Britain for Simon Pegg. Thanks to him, I met a hot geeky chick (they do exist!) while in line to see Hot Fuzz. She was even knew about Spaced! I am forever in your debt.
Now I feel even worse about how we sent Madonna your way. Sorry 'bout that, guys. :P
- Ponch
As a Brit, I would say being British is to:
* Never complain at bad service, bad haircut, or other people being rude to avoid "making a fuss".
* Apologising at least five times during any exchange with a stranger (usually shop keepers).
* Have a strange sense of pride at being crap at something (e.g. a sport), or rather, a strange sense of pride in having a strange sense of pride about being crap.
* Hating by default all people from other countries on the same landmass as yourself (or close by), but then actually getting on famously with individuals from those other countries when they actually meet them.
We're a curious bunch. :)
I think Britishness is all about the banter, which depends on what "class" you are. We (as a country) are generally middle class with the odd few extreme "upper class twits" and lower class "chavs/neds" which fuel our media daily. There is also different classes of how much money you earn and your job I think that is more of a factor in other countries.
Today we so diverse that we try to make the more morally right decisions, while trying it not to affect our own life. This is our problem and as a result, we get involved with a lot of things in the world while being such a small country. I'm proud of my Britishness, but more so for my Scottishness. And we take advantage of this common feeling of our citizens regularly to market our TV, music and film. The things that are most likely to make an impact and an opinion about Britain.
There, I tried to keep my response more media related ;D
Quote from: Emerald on Tue 05/02/2008 18:09:15
Three words come to my mind:
Black and Tans (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_and_Tans)
:P
Well yes they did give us them, but they also gave us our great buildings and the English language.
Sacre bleu, merdes rosbifs!!
In my opinion, the new national identity is that of the teenage hoody with a can of cider.
It's a shame. But true.
One thing that does irritate me is the stereotyping of british people as Londoners in the 40s. And the Whole of Britain as London in the 40s.
I don't really consider myself british or even english, I'd much rather be european. Being british is something to be ashamed of with the street culture as it is at the moment.,=
It's funny... Ireland's a small country which hasn't had much of an impact on the world, so instead we fill our history books with anti-British propaganda...
The violence of the IRA isn't cool in the slightest, but I love the craftiness (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obstructionism#Famous_obstructionists) of us Irish during earlier times...
Quote from: Emerald on Wed 06/02/2008 20:41:30
Ireland's a small country which hasn't had much of an impact on the world...
Come on, Emerald! Don't be like that. You guys gave the world Dustin the Turkey! We are forever in your debt :D
Dustin is a plague on our society. He's like the KKK and the Nazis and OJ Simpson all rolled into one...
That's quite a lot of impact then :)
Quote from: Tuomas on Wed 06/02/2008 22:01:03
That's quite a lot of impact then :)
It proves what a shallow pond Ireland is :P
I hate generalizing, so don't hate me for it.
But, oddly enough, when I think of "British" I still think Imperial.
Bt
Quote from: Emerald on Wed 06/02/2008 20:41:30
It's funny... Ireland's a small country which hasn't had much of an impact on the world.
Oh now I wouldn't say that. I live about 4,000 miles from Ireland, and yet the town I live in has a Bennigans and a proper Irish pub. Also, the next town over has quite the St. Patrick's day festival and parade ;)
I'd say Britishness is a quiet optimism. I think a good example is the Carlsberg advert with the polar explorers.
Britishness is that sort of cultural thing where you can appreciate "daft" programs, like Top Gear.
Britishness is the feeling to do something. The Independant was a strike against the biased newspapers (The Mirror, Mail, Telegraph, Times etc), Little Britain was a strike against the sit-com, and so on.
Britishness is the feeling that, yes, The Lib Dems will never again be in power. But we'll keep going, and make our mark on the political spectrum in our own way.
In my opinion, though, Britishness is best summed up by Churchill's motto - Keep Buggering On.
- Huw
EDIT: And us Northerners think that the further south you go, the more classist you are. Aristocrats and the East End, sort of thing.
I like Bill Bailey's definition of Britain:
'Well 65 per cent of our days our overcast so as a nation we're infused with a wistful melancholy.'
duh, people, look it up... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Britishness ! :=
Quote from: SSH on Thu 07/02/2008 22:20:36
duh, people, look it up... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Britishness ! :=
Already did, but that focuses more on the political view of Britishness which is not really the context I'm talking about.
Thanks for all the ideas so far. Keep them coming, I'm finding it really interesting.
I've never been in UK (although I'd love to), but this is how it feels via media and books:
British? Old. Retro.
Like old cities, ruins of strongholds, old-looking architecture - even "new" buildings look very much 1930'ish
Football. The football in Britain seems to be what Islam is in Middle East. Cultlike. Same goes for Monarchy, queen.
I should mention that this probably means a lot of britishness for me: cultlike belief and sticking to logically stupid or useless things. Like STILL not using metric system, driving on left, history-long geographical isolation, not following any stereotypes (british tv & movies are best example for this), etc. Doing everything "our own way", not important if it's the best way.
Weird addiction to beer. Pubs.
Slang. I can understand US movies without subtitles, but British ones, with all the "sods" and "chaps", add an accent, are quite cryptic.
Gothic. Stereotypical new British band plays Goth Rock of some sort. Things look gothic. Black is very common colour.
Everything has this "Bioshock" game feeling to it. Cabs look like ones gangsters drove in 30's USA, buses look like this, buildings looks like this, everything looks like this. Retro.
Those few british I've met, are a bit gypsy-like, serious, introvert and with somewhat faked aura of confidence and strength. You know, to hide a bit childish happiness and craziness underneath.
Quotemerdes rosbifs!!
...fuck the roast beef? TYRANT!!
Funny, not long after this thread popped up, I got a forwarded joke email about 'Being British'. Figured I may as well post it for giggles. ;)
BEING BRITISH.
Being British is about driving in a German car to an Irish pub for a Belgian beer, then travelling home, grabbing an Indian curry or a Turkish kebab on the way, to sit on Swedish furniture and watch American shows on a Japanese TV.
And the most British thing of all?
Suspicion of all things foreign!
Only in Britain can a pizza get to your house faster than an ambulance.
Only in Britain do supermarkets make sick people walk all the way to the
back of the shop to get their prescriptions while healthy people can buy cigarettes at the front.
Only in Britain do people order double cheeseburgers, large fries and a DIET coke.
Only in Britain do banks leave both doors open and chain the pens to the counters.
Only in Britain do we leave cars worth thousands of pounds on the drive and lock our junk and cheap lawn mower in the garage.
Only in Britain do we use answering machines to screen calls and then have call waiting so we won't miss a call from someone we didn't want to talk to in the first place.
Only in Britain are there disabled parking places in front of a skating rink.
NOT TO MENTION..
3 Brits die each year testing if a 9v battery works on their tongue.
142 Brits were injured in 1999 by not removing all pins from new shirts.
58 Brits are injured each year by using sharp knives instead of screwdrivers.
31 Brits have died since 1996 by watering their Christmas tree while the fairy lights were plugged in.
19 Brits have died in the last 3 years believing that Christmas decorations were chocolate.
British Hospitals reported 4 broken arms last year after Xmas cracker-pulling accidents.
18 Brits had serious burns in 2000 trying on a new jumper with a lit cigarette in their mouth.
A massive 543 Brits were admitted to A&E in the last two years after trying to open bottles of beer with their teeth.
5 Brits were injured last year in accidents involving out-of-control Scalextric cars.
and finally...
In 2000 eight Brits were admitted to hospital with fractured skulls incurred whilst throwing up into the toilet.
That is hilarious!
Although most of those would apply universally, not just in Britain...