I noticed in most of all AGS games, people use MIDI music. Now although theres nothing wrong with it, MP3 files and WAV files sound much better, like real songs. MIDI songs are more...super nintendo gamish. Is the reason why people use MIDI files because the size is smaller? Or they just like the sound?
Wavs are huge and should only be used for effects, mp3 need more skill to create but people dont use mp3s as much as ogg for ags games . midis are oldschool and small, thats why there used
What he said.
Also, AGS-ers generally want to create games the emulate the old Lucas+ Sierra ones.
Plus, midi music rocks dude!
MIDI music is just about atmosphere, it's a much smaller size, and people can still make some pretty cool tunes with it.
It all just depends on what type of game you're making, and how good the graphics are. If you're willing to make games with millions of colors, than size isn't an issue with you, and you should probably use more high tech music, which fits the more modern graphics. If you're going for an old school look or feel, than MIDI is great. It's only real big drawback is that it sounds different on other computers.
From experience, I've made some tunes that I enjoyed a lot, and when I listened to the tunes on another computer, they might sound completely different, and the instruments might not go together as well.
You also have to consider that most people are making games for free...so we're lucky to get music at all...and really lucky if it's all original.
-MillsJROSS
i think the answer to this question can be summed up in 4 words: because they want to
Lemme guess, jopjo... You're probably around 13-14, and were raised in the FPS era of gaming... Correct?
You are correct in the matter that MP3's (real audio) are great and sound "better"... But then again, the word better is usually just an opinion... Real audio is suited more for high-tech, modernized games. Games with Hi-Res Backgrounds reminiscent of Broken Sword or Full Throttle or even Grim Fandango (if you wanna go the 3D route) should use real audio. It gives games a more cinematic, 'REAL' feeling. This is what most gamers want these days, because they can relate to it easier and it's easily achievable with today's technology.
Back in the early to mid-ages of Adventure Games... Real audio (MP3, OGG, WAV, whatever) was quite expensive to use in games, and sometimes it wasn't even possible to do with their current technology. So every game back then used a file format called MIDI.
MIDI files are songs reated with numbers and tracks and so on with special sequencing programs... Instead of storing all the musical information digitally in the file itself, instruments on your soundcard are called up from the file as it plays, and it's played out via specified sound drivers from your sound card's company... This is exactly why MIDI files are much smaller (basically they are almost like hex-code files), and don't sound like a studio recorded masterpiece. And again, like it was said before in another post, MIDIs usually sound different on other computers pending, of course, on the sound card type and the driver type.
We adventure makers use MIDI majorly because it's small, easier to produce with freeware programs widely available, and it brings back the feeling of the golden years of adventure games. MIDIs set a nostalgic mood sometimes, and most of the time just fit better with the graphics style used for the game. In these situations, real audio would be worse and totally ruin the moment.
There is a majority of reasons to use MIDI... Many more than I listed... But like Boyd said: We use MIDIs because we want to! :)
I hope that helps answer your question (and then some.)
P.S. Even Wolfenstein used MIDIs :)
Quote from: [lgm] on Wed 14/07/2004 21:42:03
Lemme guess, jopjo.. You're probably around 13-14,Ã, and were raised in the FPS era of gaming.
euhm... you're 16 yourself! How would you know?
I was raised on Adventure Games by mere chance chance :) (Our first computer came when I was 5, and it came packaged with Space Quest 4 and King's Quest 6)
I'm 17, when i was brought up, Adventure Games were the only games we had, i knew nothing of other games, i thought they were the only games you could get
One word: Nostalgia.
Midi just tends to fit the general AGS aesthetic better. If you're making, say, a slick FPS total conversion, midi would probably sound stupid, but for a low-res retro-styled graphic adventure anything better would most likely feel a little out of place.
Quote from: [lgm] on Wed 14/07/2004 21:42:03
Lemme guess, jopjo... You're probably around 13-14, and were raised in the FPS era of gaming... Correct?
Hahahaha... who do you think you are, LGM? You're only a 15-16 year old boy. You're not that much older.
Im 15, The first to games I ever played where wolf3d the first FPS ever, and Space Quest 5, one of the best adventures ever in my opinion. I love midis, I also love mp3s. It depends on the game genre
I'm only 13 (the shame) but I am disgusted by the people who would buy a game, devoid of story or charm, on the basis of "It looks purdy".
I was brought up on adventure games. The first game I ever played was Indy and the last crusade. I type this on the same PC to boot.
Midi is part of the heritage of gaming. And, as was pointed out before, adds depth and nostalgia which is seldom found in most mp3's.
~8kb <= MIDI <= ~60kb
~1,000kb <= MP3 <= ~5,000kb
Need I say more? Webspace is hard to come by if you're not willing to shell out around $100 (USD) a year.
Quote from: Mr Flibble on Wed 14/07/2004 22:38:13
Midi is part of the heritage of gaming. And, as was pointed out before, adds depth and nostalgia which is seldom found in most mp3's.
Oh, come on, that's just silly. Adds
depth? As for nostalgia - you're entitled to that, but for me game music nostalgia belongs much more to old FM chips such as the YM3812 (OPL2). MIDI music as used in games today rather reminds me of badly made shareware games for Windows 3.1.
Quote from: [lgm] on Wed 14/07/2004 21:50:08
I was raised on Adventure Games by mere chance chance :) (Our first computer came when I was 5, and it came packaged with Space Quest 4 and King's Quest 6)
Kings Quest 6 was one of my first ever games too, along with Lemmings and Zool - Ninja of the Nth Dimension. Ahh the good old days :)
because frankly its almost impossible to find 'decisive battle' from FF3 in MP3 format. lol
thats why we use midi.
I'm using OGG files in my game. Great quality, small size. I don't mind MIDI music at all, but in the end, MIDI files can't always do what you need them to.
Quote from: jopjo on Wed 14/07/2004 19:04:29
I noticed in most of all AGS games, people use MIDI music. Now although theres nothing wrong with it, MP3 files and WAV files sound much better, like real songs. MIDI songs are more...super nintendo gamish. Is the reason why people use MIDI files because the size is smaller? Or they just like the sound?
Here's some of the reasons, without too many explanations:
1) Yes, the size of the MIDI files are smaller.
2) Yes, some people like the sound. It's kind of funky, and it seems to go along with low res games pretty well.
3) They're easier to make than good-sounding MP3s. I mean, you can make mp3s, but if you don't have good equipment it's going to end up sounded like a recorded midi. Now, why in the world would you want to do that (see reason 1)
4) Not everyone can make MP3s, I believe, partially because of reason #3.
5) (last, but not least), it's the whole nostalgia thing...
As long as the music is good, I'm happy. If you make digitally enhanced music that is not really that exciting or not that good, then no matter how good the instruments sound (or how many instruments you add--People seem to think this is a solution to all of their problems..?), it's never going to be as good as a nice, well comopsed midi tune. It's all about the art, man, not the technology. For more info, compare new star wars vs old star wars. :P
I use them because I don't want to buy an MIDI-MP3 converter, and becasue MIDIs aren't very hard to make.
Now that we ARE on the subject, anyone here makes MOD files??? MOD is like teh rule!!
If you don't like midi, use teh *.mod
I've been making like 5 years ago (yes I know I was 12 then), some awesome *.mod's(not M0ds :p)... ok anyway, I think mp3 sucks the arse, and everyone should use either midi or mod :P
.MOD is pretty limiting but those limitations can result in creativity, i've been making XMs in fasttracker2 since 1997, but win2k has put a stop to that now, plus the mod playback routine AGS uses isn't that good, but not many people use mod music anyway, the only games i know of that have used it is Pleurghburg: Dark Ages, and Carrot Bob in ZX Spectrum World (which i did the music for :D)
but i have a pretty decent soundcard so i don't mind midi, hell i didn't mind midi when i had my SB16, i'm a big fan of those old retro sounds and adlib music, but then i did grow up in the 80s
Well, I think no one of you has mentioned that producing an original MIDI is a lot easier than producing audio... If you want to created a nice MIDI you only have to put the notes (or record them if you have a keyboard and playing skills) and it will hear fine.
On the other hand, if you want to produce an original audio clip you have to put the notes, bring the musicians, pay the recording studio, this if you want to create something fine; even if you want to produce something not that professional, you still need musicians for your cause, some microphones, a good chunk of MB in your hard disk, a good PC in general (you will need to process audio clips for a while), and you should live with the fact that you will have to record live (instead of recording in separate tracks like you would do in a studio).
I haven't mentioned that you can find background music on the Internet, but you usually won't like how it sounds. And please, do not even think of putting Britney Spears in your game unless it's absolutely necessary (i.e., your game's main character is Britney), or another band you can hear on radio, it looks incredibly amateurish (even for an amateur community ;)).
Well, I think those are my two cents for this topic. I haven't fiddled with .MODs so I have no opinions about it.
I like to use midi, but midi is rather limited to the GM, so I tend to work on music using Sibelius, export the songs into a wav format and convert the wav into an mp3. Converting wav into mp3 is really easy, most music players (Dell Musicmatch, Apple ITumes, etc.) will do it cleanly and easily.
But as said, yeah, it's about feel. I know Space Quest five was mentioned here, and I remember playing that where the sounds were basically just beeps and boops years ago.
There was a time when AGS ONLY supported MIDI audio files.
Quote from: Sutebi on Thu 15/07/2004 01:51:31
I like to use midi, but midi is rather limited to the GM
not for me it isn't, i can hook my card up to a yamaha synth and enjoy XG :D
I think from what I've read so far on here, the only valid arguments for MIDI are the small size and the ease of creating songs for anyone who doesn't play an instrument. And by the amount of people holding up guitars in their pictures, it looks like a large percentage of people DO play instruments.
For me, the fact that a MIDI can/will sound different on another computer is enough to make up my mind to not (or rarely) use them, and opt for ogg, mp3 instead.
And again, nostalgia is all well and good, and the argument of only buying something 'cause it's "purdy" is well put, but there's a difference between something sounding good and being written well, and i'd rather hear well-written music, in any format, than something that sounds boss as hell and is a rip off of something else and doesn't fit the mood.
I guess in conclusion (haha) people should once again remind themselves that this is an AMATUER community, and people are putting a lot of work (in most cases) into making a free product for EVERYONE to enjoy, and it's the ideas that matter in the end, regardless of the quality. I'm no musical genius by any stretch, but i dabble (heavily) in music and i know from experience that it can be hard to make a decent sounding real audio track without some cash, so a point for the MIDI folks, i guess, and anyone who can make a high quality mp3, points for you.
Music/Atmosphere CAN make or break a game. FOA = amazing soundtrack, QFG4 = better than most professional movie scores.
Most of the MIDI files I've heard in AGS games sounded great though, you make it sound as if they're just shit and for people that are obsessed with old methods.
I play guitar too, and I'm a decent recording engineer, mediocre drummer, good bassist, I can build my own electrical equipment, and that would be all well and good for going .OGG if I had a drum set, a bass, low noise recorders, and the quality mics. I have to rely on friends for that stuff and my friends are unreliable. That's probably why most of these other people who play guitar don't do it, except some of them are probably even less able than me. Hey, I can't help it that I'm talented. ;D
So what we're looking at here is a money issue. Few people have the money to get the good recording equipment and instruments, and lots of people have the free software to make MIDI files which can be distributed through free webhosts, unlike large 10+ mb games with true audio.
I wasn't trying to downplay the importance of MIDI at all. I guess long, unplanned rants should be avoided from now on. I'm pretty much in the exact same boat as you as far as skills go (not sure about the depth of them, but approximate same types of skill, including the electrical, which by the way is the most useful skill for a guitar player to have when it comes to homemade effects pedals \m/ ). Anyway, all i meant to say, in reply to the original post is this:
Every audio format has it's purposes in AGS games, hence why CJ included support for all of them, MIDI is very useful for the non-instrumentalist as well as the multi-instrumentalist who's lacking in the funds department. Myself, i have 4 electric guitars, 1 acoustic, access to half-decent mics and a drumkit and bass when i need them, a G4 with some nice free audio software as well as a few low-end pieces, 8 years experience on guitar, 4 on drums, and a lifetime on vocals ---- and i'm still using plenty of MIDI in my game, for the same reason that i would choose 1 guitar over another, and that is that some things just sound better certain ways. Some nice atmospheric synth pads on the GM table sound pantloads better than trying to emulate the sound through chording on a guitar. So aside from the file size and the skill/money involved in real recordings, it all really comes down to the sound of the finished product, and what YOU, as the game designer, want that sound to be.
And wouldn't you know it, that was another long-winded rant...
(http://www.sylpher.com/kafka/junk/lgmhardcore.gif)
I like midis and oggs.
If you've built effects pedals (I like making those too), you should take on a tube amp to finish off your tone pool (if you haven't already got one). SS amps suck. Click the AX84 link below.
Anyway, I don't get the point of your rant anymore. It's not for or against anything and you seem to know why people use MID files, so why did you ask?
MIDI is nice to work with. A lot of people still start out with MIDI creation. I agree it being nostalgic. When we've all got super computers, MIDI might fade away. But MIDI is still becoming even more compatible, on mobile (cellular) phones for example. :)
Shbaz, I'm proud to be a member of AGS :D Why aern't you?
Quote from: m0ds on Fri 16/07/2004 01:24:06
Shbaz, I'm proud to be a member of AGS :D Why aern't you?
What? I'm a member of several forums.. there isn't a rule about singular loyalty.