I have a question: We're supposed to search anything we need on the boards before posting any questions, but how can we do that if the search function is disabled? (I don't mean to sound rude or anything...)
[edit: clarify thread title]
At the moment, unfortunately you can't search.
This is a temporary measure because the forums are overloading the server. I will have to decide how to proceed depending on whether disabling the search resolves the problem; if not, there may have to be further cutbacks in forum features.
I apologise for any inconvenience, but it's better to have forums with no search than no forums at all. Meanwhile, I am considering long-term solutions.
Quote from: Pumaman on Tue 26/04/2005 22:30:09
At the moment, unfortunately you can't search.
This is a temporary measure because the forums are overloading the server. I will have to decide how to proceed depending on whether disabling the search resolves the problem; if not, there may have to be further cutbacks in forum features.
I apologise for any inconvenience, but it's better to have forums with no search than no forums at all. Meanwhile, I am considering long-term solutions.
May I ask how much is the traffic load per month? I'm curious and I work with people in hosting business maybe I can think of something... (Oh, and thanks for editing the topic's name! Sorry for not being clear)
It's not the bandwidth that's the problem, it's the server CPU load.
Basically, this website is using about 6% of the server's CPU, which on a shared hosting account with about 100 sites per server is, well, 6 times our fair share ;)
But because it's only 6%, there's no way it needs a dedicated server of its own, ideally I need to move to some sort of semi-dedicated hosting where there are a lot less sites per server.
Or just keep disabling features on the forum until the load reduces :)
Where is that 6% coming from? is it from just forum users clicking on pages? is the amount of bytes per page involved in any way?
I vote we go back to EZboard
Quote from: netmonkey on Wed 27/04/2005 01:44:27
Where is that 6% coming from? is it from just forum users clicking on pages? is the amount of bytes per page involved in any way?
Accepting connection and uploading page to user?
maybe?
Standard web serving stuff like that isn't much overhead, what causes the CPU usage is all the database lookups required to generate rhe forum pages every time you click one. The search function is probably one of the worst considering it has to search through every post.
Quote from: scotch on Wed 27/04/2005 03:13:45
Standard web serving stuff like that isn't much overhead, what causes the CPU usage is all the database lookups required to generate rhe forum pages every time you click one. The search function is probably one of the worst considering it has to search through every post.
What script are you using for the phorum? Is it open source? If it is, have you thought about the possibility (not everyone would be interested, but I think a few) of making a zip every month or so with the backup of the database so that we could download it and search on a local installation (I'm not sure if what I just wrote is understandable, hope so) ?
The idea is that I have a local installation of the phorum, and every month or so I can just download the latest backup of the DB so that I can search the phorum locally... Or look at the posts and all that without causing any traffic or CPU use of your server... is it a terribly bad idea?
I think that's a pretty good idea, but would the "phorum" (as you say) archives be HUGE? It'd be a rather large fle to search through.
I think it's a bad idea.
How many people here are going to download the entire forum once a month just to search for a game someone posted in 2002?
Nevermind the bandwidth cost.
Quote from: MrColossal on Wed 27/04/2005 06:33:05
I think it's a bad idea.
How many people here are going to download the entire forum once a month just to search for a game someone posted in 2002?
I'm not talking about downloading it to search games. I'm talking about downloading it for searching about technical stuff, questions about scripting that someone has probably already asked before, etc...
I'm thinking about downloading an exact copy of the sql database in which this stuff is working on (one .sql file) and of the PHP scripts, so you would have an exact local copy of this phorums but with the searching enabled... .SQL files are just text files, and since so many people have fast connections now a days it wouldn't be trouble some. You would just download it when you wanted to search about something, not necessarily once a month.
It wouldn't be a solution for everybody, I know that, but at least many of us could have access to a copy of the phorums and be able to search on it...
Also, if it's not that troublesome (cause it's not, it's just making a zip with the PHP scripts and making a .sql file with phpMyAdmin) why not try it? It wouldn't consume a lot of bandwith, users could have that option, and since it's not troublesome, trying it wouldn't hurt anybody and it's easier to see if it works than just saying it won't...
Can I ask - in all my humble ignorance - the difference between 'forum' and 'phorum'?
[EDIT]: Also, wouldn't it be easier - as opposed to downloading an entire back-up of the forum - to just post your question again? I'm assuming if the search function is disabled, you've had the commonsense to go back manually at least a couple of pages? And, if it's not there, ask. Is there something wrong with that that I'm missing?
Quote from: Peter Thomas on Wed 27/04/2005 12:53:40
Can I ask - in all my humble ignorance - the difference between 'forum' and 'phorum'?
[EDIT]: Also, wouldn't it be easier - as opposed to downloading an entire back-up of the forum - to just post your question again? I'm assuming if the search function is disabled, you've had the commonsense to go back manually at least a couple of pages? And, if it's not there, ask. Is there something wrong with that that I'm missing?
If it's 'forum' or 'phorum' I'm not sure (I'm not a native English speaker), but anyway that seems a little out of place as the thread was not a spelling quiz (don't mean to sound rude, just that I don't see the point of discussing that). About the idea, well, is just that this forum has been for a LONG time, and there are probably many things that are saved somewhere that include lots of information that should be available. You could always re-post something that was asked 1 year ago, but
1. It is possible to go back manually, but it's the same thing as having a book without an index. You would have to read all the topics names to see if you can find what you're looking for instead of just submiting a query and looking at the results.
2. You can ask again, and you'll get some answers. But it could happen that you don't get any 'good' (meaning helpful) replies that could have been stored on a lost forgotten thread...
As I said, my 'idea' is based on: If it's not troublesome why not try it? Anyway it's just an idea, if nobody else think it's worth doing it well...
There is no crime in asking the same question for the second time. It's just annoying if someone asks what's the best ags game for the sobbing 14th time. So members post a link to the original post with the comment that it's been done before. And that makes them feel realy realy smart for a few seconds. (we all know Ace Quest is the best game ever made, anyway)
You don't have to search the forums every time you want to start a topic.
Now, a dedicated server would solve the problems. But also creates some finacial problems.
You know, this forum needs some 1337 HAX0Rs that can create some illegal cyberspace for AGS. Nah...
QuoteIf it's 'forum' or 'phorum' I'm not sure (I'm not a native English speaker), but anyway that seems a little out of place as the thread was not a spelling quiz (don't mean to sound rude, just that I don't see the point of discussing that).
I wasn't making jest at you. I thought there might have been a genuine difference between the two, like fat (overweight) and phat (cool). Apparently not. Anyway, you didn't sound rude, so I guess we're fine on both ends :)
I guess this 'backup' could prove useful for others. It would be fairly obsolete for me, but as I say, that's no reason not to do it. I guess general opinion will give us an answer on if it's worth it...
scotch had a great idea on IRC: use Google to search the forums instead of an inbuilt feature. Would that be feasible?
Quote from: rozojc on Wed 27/04/2005 03:18:11
What script are you using for the phorum? Is it open source? If it is, have you thought about the possibility (not everyone would be interested, but I think a few) of making a zip every month or so with the backup of the database so that we could download it and search on a local installation (I'm not sure if what I just wrote is understandable, hope so) ?
The database backup zipped is 30 MB, which if several people started downloading it would cause us a bandwidth problem. Although it's a nice idea in theory, I don't think it would really work.
Quotescotch had a great idea on IRC: use Google to search the forums instead of an inbuilt feature. Would that be feasible?
It's a good idea, but google doesn't seem to have crawled most of the forum -- if you try a google search for a thread here, it most likely won't find it.
Quote from: Pumaman on Wed 27/04/2005 19:47:41
Quote from: rozojc on Wed 27/04/2005 03:18:11
What script are you using for the phorum? Is it open source? If it is, have you thought about the possibility (not everyone would be interested, but I think a few) of making a zip every month or so with the backup of the database so that we could download it and search on a local installation (I'm not sure if what I just wrote is understandable, hope so) ?
The database backup zipped is 30 MB, which if several people started downloading it would cause us a bandwidth problem. Although it's a nice idea in theory, I don't think it would really work.
Quotescotch had a great idea on IRC: use Google to search the forums instead of an inbuilt feature. Would that be feasible?
It's a good idea, but google doesn't seem to have crawled most of the forum -- if you try a google search for a thread here, it most likely won't find it.
Since what is most useful (I think) is to be able to search through the technical forums, why not then just make zipped versions EXCLUSIVELY of those forums? That way it would certainly be a lot less than 30 megs...
My idea would be to reduce the forums to technical things like games in productions and and move the community and general topics somewhere else where there is more bandwith. Maybe we can all hang out in a new forum, like the adventure developers forums or something! We're dying again!!!!11 :(
Unless we can gather like $120 a month to support a dedicated server...
I see at the bottom of each page that it takes 18 queries to construct a page. If I open 10 topics during a forum visit, that's 180 queries for a single person. If there are 10 users active at one time, we're talking about 1800 queries in a few minute interval. That's quite a lot, considering that the server is shared with other websites, which place load on the machine as well.
Does anyone know what these queries do? I once downloaded the SMF source code, so I could search it through to see, but if someone knows it for a fact, that'd great. Let's see if we can somehow cut down the number of queries to construct a single page, I bet we would make a serious cut on the processor load. Obviously, this would mean cutting some forum features, but first let's see what's what, then we can decide.
I'd vote for keeping all forums in one place, if it's feasible. What do you guys think?
Just to bring you guys up to date:
I have been looking into the high load problem along with my web host. They've been very helpful and co-operative, and we've been trying various things to get the load down.
Over the last couple of days, we've had all the forums running except General Discussion, Hints and Tips and Games In Production, and due to the changes we've made, the load was at an acceptable level.
I have now re-enabled all the forums as a test to see whether the load remains ok. If so, then great, we can all carry on as before; if not, then due consideration will be given to the permanent removal of the General Discussion forum. Anyway, we'll now leave it for a couple of days to see how things shape up.
Oh noes D:
No gengen would be... like... I can't think of a good comparison, but it would mean we move the photo topic etc. into adventure chitchat...?
I certainly think gen gen is a vital part of this community. There's a lot of crap here, but also some really good discussions every now and then.
I realise this has probably already been thought of but:
The zipped techinical only, is it in txt only format? Can you do that? Would that be smaller? Just a thought.
Also, what forums are searched the most? Can you maybe say, only search the technical forums?
For games forums, for each game could you maybe do posts in alphabetical order, and then just click on the letter you want? Sorry if that's a crazy question, I'm not a forum expert so I don't know how it all works.
What about asking for donations to get better hosting? I know people don't like to go there sometimes, but maybe you should?
I agree with andail about gen gen being a vital part of this community. I think there would be a huge void if it had to be removed permanently.
If worse comes to worse. I'd be willing to donate some cash to keep this place up and running, and to make sure that the AGS forums remain intact for generations to come. :)
I'm serious about the donation part, so please save General Discussion.
Shawn
p.s. had to write this quickly because i'm at work and don't want to get caught.
Its been interesting the past few days with the forums coming back to life slowly. I agree fully that the gen gen is avital part of the community. It's probably where I spend the most of my time here. It would be very bad to see it gone, although if you have to, then I guess you have to.
It's looking ok so far, so fortunately it looks like all the forums can stay.
Whether I'm able to re-enable the search feature or not is another question, which I'll look into in a few days time.
What I don't understand is why removal of the General forum would be considered before considering switching plans or hosts. You're using WestHost (it looks like). They offer inexpensive VPS plans, have those been considered?
Also, Site5 (http://www.site5.com/affiliates/idevaffiliate.php?id=263), which I find to be a very reliable host, just launched a new line of hosting packages that include RapidReflex - a technology that handles high CPU usage without causing any downtime.
Ok, well the load has been acceptable now with all the forums back on, so I've now re-enabled the Search function. Hopefully, if this doesn't cause too much additional load, it can stay too and then we're all back to normal.
QuoteWhat I don't understand is why removal of the General forum would be considered before considering switching plans or hosts. You're using WestHost (it looks like). They offer inexpensive VPS plans, have those been considered?
This site is running on a VPS plan. There's no point continually switching hosts, I've already done it twice and the new host has complained about server load. So, realisitcally the only option is to upgrade to a semi-dedicated server which costs quite a bit more.
Anyway, the point should hopefully be moot, because I've managed to reduce the load to an acceptable level now.
QuoteI've managed to reduce the load to an acceptable level now.
I'm the layman of all laymen, so excuse me if the question is below the average level of intelligence or something ( ;) ) - I'm curious as to how you did it, since when all's said and done everything's back to normal...
...oh, sorry, it wasn't a question. ::) If, when all's said and done, everything's back to normal, how did you reduce the load? Did these board-less days do the trick? And if so, does that mean we can expect more of the same when the load increases again (as it will if this was all that did it)?
It's a result of trying different configuration settings in the forum software, and more significantly installing a utility called eAccelerator (http://eaccelerator.net/), which improves the speed of PHP scripts.
Kay-ay. Thankya. Just curious.