Any speakers of dutch that can give me the gist of this?
http://www.bright.nl/bosjes-en-bergen-windmolens-sieren-landschap
I am -fascinated- with this:
(http://www.bright.nl/upload/06/06/060627-flowerpower4.jpg)
The Statesadvisor(?) of landscape asked designers for a new generation of windmills. 100 MegaWatt mountains, a colaboration between One Architecture, Ton Matten and NL Architects found out that a single construction could hold up to 10 turbines. De millsdensity could be increased by changing(?) the height up to 120 meters. Then they could be placed in city's, so said landscapearchitect Paul van Beek. That's where we need the energy the most. For the first time wind becomes visible. It looks so gooood!
Hmm, does it say anything about whether these will actually be implimented?
So what does that mean?... we're gonna start seeing windmills on the rooftops andskyscrapers in the cities?... I'm surprised it hasn't been done before.... I mean.. its the sky... thats where all the wind is, right?
If every building had a windmill on it connected to a generator, we wouldn' be able to live on it, but it would certainly help save on gas and coal bills.
Quote from: Kinoko on Sun 26/08/2007 12:43:03
Hmm, does it say anything about whether these will actually be implimented?
Not really no.
Hmm, but when storm comes and hits it, then ten mills fall instead of one :P
I like windmills, they are very useful for making sure grain is nicely ground up. I have been to several Windmills in this fair land and have marveled at them all. Some of the windmills had ceased operation but a few were still going. So next time you need something, look up into the sky and say "thanks windmill, thanks.".
There's really no excuse for not having more windmills than we do...
It's free electricity for Christ's sake.
The reason why there aren't more windmills?
The government can't put a tax on wind.
It's ridiculous, isn't it? It's practically free energy. Like you said, it wouldn't be enough for ALL our electricty, but it'd -help- and it'd be clean energy.
And kills thousand of birds...
And cats, as seen in a Simpsons episode!
Quote from: Nacho on Sun 26/08/2007 14:46:02
And kills thousand of birds...
You'd think birds would be able to avoid a spinning propeller. Especially one that's standing still.
http://www.acsu.buffalo.edu/~insrisg/nature/nw04/0509Windmills.htm (http://www.acsu.buffalo.edu/~insrisg/nature/nw04/0509Windmills.htm)
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2005-01-04-windmills-usat_x.htm (http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2005-01-04-windmills-usat_x.htm)
Apparently not, Haddas... But there' s also some links de-mythifying the issue...
http://www.treehugger.com/files/2006/04/common_misconce.php (http://www.treehugger.com/files/2006/04/common_misconce.php)
Quote from: Nacho on Sun 26/08/2007 15:42:19
http://www.acsu.buffalo.edu/~insrisg/nature/nw04/0509Windmills.htm (http://www.acsu.buffalo.edu/~insrisg/nature/nw04/0509Windmills.htm)
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2005-01-04-windmills-usat_x.htm (http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2005-01-04-windmills-usat_x.htm)
Apparently not, Haddas... But there' s also some links de-mythifying the issue...
http://www.treehugger.com/files/2006/04/common_misconce.php (http://www.treehugger.com/files/2006/04/common_misconce.php)
Birds are so complicated. What ARE birds? We just don't know.
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There's really no excuse for not having more windmills than we do...
So then does anyone have one on top of their house or parent's house, and if not, why not?
Another reason why companies and governments are reticent to implement windmills is because of the wind's capriciousness and the incertitude regarding the rentability.
That and the protests of angry citizens accusing them of "destroying the landscape with their ugly fans" everytime they actually get to implement some. ::)
Quote from: RickJ on Sun 26/08/2007 17:15:43
So then does anyone have one on top of their house or parent's house, and if not, why not?
We sure would, but for starters, it would be too big for a small house to support. Too heavy at that. And, umm, it wouldn't produce enough electricity because the whole landscape is surrounded by forests and hills, so it's not very windy either.
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We sure would, but for starters, it would be too big for a small house to support. Too heavy at that.
Sorry, I didn't necessarily mean literally "on top of the house". Windmills may be supported by a building or may be self supporting structures as seen in the photo in initial post.
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And, umm, it wouldn't produce enough electricity because the whole landscape is surrounded by forests and hills, so it's not very windy either.
A small breeze 10-15 mph is enough to operate the windmill. Although, it may not produce enough electricity to power a home 24-7 it would provide a noticeable percentage of the home's power requirements. Surely in the case of home this percentage is much higher than in the case of a skyscraper where energy requirements are much greater and the surface area is severely limited. Such systems are typically connected to the home's electrical system through "inverter electronics" that convert the windmill's DC power to AC power. In localities where it is permitted excess electricity is sold back to the power company.
Quote from: RickJ on Sun 26/08/2007 17:15:43
So then does anyone have one on top of their house or parent's house, and if not, why not?
Thunders?
In all, it depends on the country, but keep in mind that while the UK seems to like the idea of ecological homes and houses, with green roof gardens, etc... things in Greece (for example) are 100% different:
i. Earthquakes. In the UK you know sh*t about earthquakes, in Greece we do get some pretty nice ones (not the huge ones happening in Asia, but still... lethal ones)
ii. Fires. Just started the other thread. Anything NOT by cement would be on fire immediately. We don't have gas over there in Greece, but we sure catch fire pretty easily
iii. Lack of material. We have plenty of rocks, plenty of marble, but NO wood. It's not dead easy to build a garden roof top in Greece, and especially in Athens, when we do, we have a cemented roof, with tables to sit overnight! ;D
In short what I am sure that a windmill on top of a Greek home would be... let's say weird.
Actually, btw, there is an EU law that states that some percentage (15-20% or something) of the generated power for a state needs to be created by non harmful facilities (cant' remember which law or what), but in Greece, where winds are lots higher than 10-15 mph (especially over the sea and the 1000s of islands) we are at 3% or probably less. Some windmills in Evia, got burned couple of nights ago! Way to go Greece!
I don't think windmills necessarilly need to be -everywhere-. Each place needs to have an energy source that's appropriate for that area.
For Greece, off the top of my head what comes to mind is solar or hydro power.
A 1 kW (peak) windmill will run $1500 (US$) on the low end and will not maintain that power unless the wind is constant. They must be designed for the particular average speed of wind. Lower wind speeds don't necessarily mean less power, just larger turbine blades. Because of the aerodynamics a windmill can actually spin about 3 times the speed of the wind or it can be geared to the particular gen-set.
I've read about DIY windmills built by off-grid Colorado (Rocky Mountain) dwellers who couldn't get power to their locations. It's possible to make one in a pretty modestly equipped home shop or garage.
Supposedly wind turbines just started approaching the economics of coal power a couple of years ago, but have yet to surpass it.
I've read, but never seen direct evidence, that people love the idea of windmills until they actually arrive and then they bitch about the noise. I can see how a huge megawatt turbine could woooosh wooossh all night and disturb residents.
Back to my original thought.. supposing you could get a kW pretty regularly and used it to charge a battery set.. $1500 (windmill) + $1000 (electronics systems) + ~$600 (batteries LOW estimate assuming consistent windmill output) = $3100 (US). My electric bill is about $40. I suspect a family household only passes $100 in the summer. Who is going to pony up for a system that they will have to pay to maintain and repair when it's so so much more expensive than just paying a small monthly fee? Even the aforementioned windmillers in Colorado recommended windmills only for people with no other choice or excess cash and social conscience.
I kinda had to post because I've been meaning to build my own for quite a while, but because they need to be in laminar flow wind and I have so many trees I'd need a tower about 20 meters high for excellent yield.
Quote from: Nacho on Sun 26/08/2007 14:46:02
And kills thousand of birds...
True - but the pollution caused by coal and gas based electric plants kills birds as well. Only in different ways. :(
Then, why don' t we go to sun panels, which are more ecological and (at least in my country) more reliable than the wind? :)
Quote from: Nacho on Mon 27/08/2007 10:16:13
Then, why don' t we go to sun panels, which are more ecological and (at least in my country) more reliable than the wind? :)
I think we should. Solar panels for everyplace sunny, wind & wave parks out on the sea (where they might not bother birds so much) and geothermal wherever we can find it.
Free energy - we'd be mad not to use it...
Quote from: Haddas on Sun 26/08/2007 16:41:41
Birds are so complicated. What ARE birds? We just don't know.
haha i know where that's from!
I think we should all pollute as much as inhumanly possible. That way we can get rid of all the pollution at once!
All of it!
It'll work, I swear.
Quote from: Nacho on Mon 27/08/2007 10:16:13
Then, why don' t we go to sun panels, which are more ecological and (at least in my country) more reliable than the wind? :)
1. 10 year lifetime, after that they still produce power but they have decreased their output gradually to this time such that you either must buy more or get some kind of additional power from other sources.
2. Most expensive "clean" energy on the market
3. Ecological damage due to manufacture and disposal because of this short lifespan
Windmills, if maintained properly, can last a hundred years. How is a solar panel more ecological? Is it because of birds? I think that argument is really not so well founded.
I favor stirling (hot air) engines for sun power over solar panels, but by all accounts they're just too expensive to build. One of my friends is working on a way to use refrigerants in a closed cycle for power production, I'm not so sure how well it's going to work out though. His method of choice is known as the kalina cycle.
Dunno what you're talking about. I just use the socket mounted into the wall. And it works, I don't need any windmills for that.
Quote from: miez on Mon 27/08/2007 12:01:59
Free energy - we'd be mad not to use it...
Yes indeed.
I saw a video once where some American Firemen used free energy generator for some electricity and heating stuff. Yes, it was the kind of machine that worked on almost nothing and therefore had bigger outcome from less energy. It looked really simple too, it was just some pipe system with small turbine like thing.
In fact, unused energy is all around us, everywhere. We just have to pick it up.
And we could produce energy from our fecals, then wed never run out!
Actually... if we all had a tiny windmill mounted to our butts, then every time we farted we would produce wind energy that could be collected in a special pair of electric knickers and used to light your cigarettes or power your dildo.
I think windwmills are a good idea, yes birds die, and yes the landscape looks differant afterwords. I would rather have clean power. On the other hand don't get excited about the 'free energy, man" idea where "we all make our own energy and go off the grid and stick it to the Man, man" I don't these are good arguments to make, for one it makes companies, and people with capitol, less likly to invest. I mean these people want to make money, and I am okay with that. I would rather have people making money THIS waythan say more polluting ways.
Having your own windmills doesn't have to mean going off the grid. Only supplementing it... or even adding to it for the benefit of the nation. One day in the not too distant future, there will be no coal and oil left... at least this way we'd be helping to prolong the life of fossil fuels.
Although Nuclear will be all the rage way before that happens.
If you really want to go nuclear, lets revive Project Orion and get off this rock.
(http://cartoons.infinitecoolness.com/01/futurama05.jpg)
I'm sure those windmills will keep those turtles cool.
Quote from: Scummbuddy on Wed 29/08/2007 22:13:21
(http://cartoons.infinitecoolness.com/01/futurama05.jpg)
I'm sure those windmills will keep those turtles cool.
WINDMILLS DO NOT WORK THAT WAY!
damn you two
i waned to say WINDMILLS DO NOT WORK THAT WAY!!!
Quote from: Stupot on Tue 28/08/2007 06:20:45
Actually... if we all had a tiny windmill mounted to our butts, then every time we farted we would produce wind energy that could be collected in a special pair of electric knickers and used to light your cigarettes or power your dildo.
That reminds me of an idea I have. Though it all depends on the invention of the teleport. You see, it's a well known fact that cows produce a lot of gas. Now that gas is all going to waste as it is. If we were to install sort of a gas filter teleport in the butt of the cow it could transfer the gas to large storage containers. This gas would then be used for power. One cow would produce several cubic feet per day. Now think thousands of farms and hundreds of thousands of cows..