Quote from: Valve boss man Gabe Newell
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"We're trying to make sure that Linux thrives," says Newell, who reckons that the lack of games is what's holding back the alternative PC operating system. "So we're going to continue working with the Linux distribution guys, shipping Steam, shipping our games, and making it as easy as possible for anybody who's engaged with us - putting their games on Steam and getting those running on Linux, as well. It's a hedging strategy,"
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Newell went on to express his concern for a possibly closed future for Windows with the arrival of the new OS. "I think that Windows 8 is kind of a catastrophe for everybody in the PC space," he declared.
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Full article: http://www.computerandvideogames.com/359898/newell-windows-8-is-a-catastrophe-for-everyone-in-the-pc-space/
They say it about every new Windows version. And then it turns out disappointingly passable.
I'm not seeing his point. Why does he think it will be a catastrophe, other than a general distrust of microsoft?
I think his point is that MS is showing signs of Apple-envy and being the evil empire they are he fears that MS will require all third party applications be sold through the MS App Store. This is of course in addition to the new-cell-phone-on-the-desktop windows paradigm. it will be interesting to see how it all plays out. ;)
I read this article and it made me wonder. But then my friend who's been trying Windows 8 says it's "completely unusable". He added, "by the time it's ready for release, they'll have put the Start button back". Apparently it's not half bad, it's just missing the start button. That and, that it's for touch-screen devices, and most PC's aren't that. But that was banter. XP, Vista and Win 7 still have a good many years life left in them.
PS No idea how much of this is true and such, I'd only heard of Windows 8 about a day before that conversation took place :P
I don't know any of the specs of Windows 8, but from the screenshots I've seen, it looks like a disaster. I disagree that Windows "needs" a start button because overall, it has always been a messy unorganized cluster - it needs something better.
(Also it's good to see Windows is now Adventure related... *cough* Rick.. lol)
I tried out windows 8 briefly when the consumer preview came out and concur with mods mate. Its a tablet operating system not suitable for PC. It would be fine if the general population had touchscreen monitors, but even then, who wants finger marks all over their PC screen?
QuoteAlso it's good to see Windows is now Adventure related... *cough* Rick.. lol)
We can class this thread as being about publishing (or not..) AGS games via Steam via Windows 8 via smudge marks on screens. ;)
Here's the BBC article that I read: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-18996377
Quote from: Ryan Timothy on Mon 30/07/2012 18:31:53
(Also it's good to see Windows is now Adventure related... *cough* Rick.. lol)
Did you ever use laptop that had been upgraded to Vista? Getting it to work was quite the adventure! :wink:
Been testing Win8 builds at work to test some software compatibilities, drivers etc.
My thoughts on it so far:
- Forcing the complete removal of the start button will confuse the hell out of many users. Hell, I and a few colleagues had to search around for several minutes to actually find our way into the printer manager and a few other old control panel areas. Changes like these, if forced, are really scary to old users and I hope that an option will be given to enable to "old" Win7 style start menu at some point, so that less-experienced (read: elderly) users can also make the transition to Win8.
- Win Vista and Win7 came with thousands of drivers preinstalled, Win8 has, for example, one and only one printer driver preinstalled. In our tests, the driver has worked with every printer and software we've thrown at it. I like this, and I like this alot.
- The new user interface is a step towards touch-screen oriented devices. While I personally dislike it, a lot of businesses are moving away from workstations and laptops, and trying out touchpad-devices as replacements. Microsoft is jumping onto this wagon hard, time will tell what comes of that.
- Win8 makes some interesting requirements on future software. For example: when the user minimizes a program in the new UI, that program has 10 seconds to shut itself down and release resources, or it's process is killed off. No exceptions. This means that there will be no more application hangs visible to the user, no situations in which a device runs out of memory due to too many programs open in the background etc. It will require a lot from software devs, though.
All in all, Microsoft is trying to improve, evolve and change, and to abandon some old traditions that are no longer valing and practical considering the new hardware being used. As can be seen in this thread and in the words of many old-time PC hardliners, many users will find this change as scary and painful and strange as the WinVista/Win7 change was to users who were accustomer to Win2k/WinXP environments. However, there will be change, there will be evolution, and I see no reason Microsoft will lose its station as the leading PC OS manufacturer on all fronts. We got over the last changes, and I myself would not go back to using WinXP over my current Win7 operating system, and I believe I will gladly move onto Win8 when it becomes available, for my work and for practical reasons.
After Microsoft shat out Windows ME, I stopped being an early adopter of their operating systems.
On the subject of Windows 8...I feel like I'm the only person who hates touch screens these days. It drives me crazy putting fingerprints all over what I'm also using as a monitor.
Quote from: WHAM on Mon 30/07/2012 22:21:54
[..] many users will find this change as scary and painful and strange as the WinVista/Win7 change was to users who were accustomer to Win2k/WinXP environments.
Yes, but Windows Vista or 7 are nearly the same as XP (speaking about the user interface). Sure they added some more graphical touches, made a different organization to the start menu, a basic graphical approach to the control panel (which I've always found slower to navigate through than classic style). They also decided to remove Computer (aka: My Computer) from the desktop (another thing I always pin to the desktop and quick launch immediately when using a fresh install). Also a wacky, yet better, stacking system on the start menu that took a lot of time for most people to adapt to.
I've had a Windows Phone 7 and I honestly did not like it. I found it beyond basic. Not just visually, but technically. I know that it was just a phone, but it was actually a step backwards from where the Windows Phone 6.x was. WP6 was the only reason I bought the WP7 without looking at any reviews. I didn't think they'd make an operating system that was even more basic than its predecessor.
After having used that phone for a year, its "blah" interface drives me batty just looking at it now. Those fucking squares and the stupid color choices. With Win8 following the same path, it's definitely not going to win me over. "Let's make blocky squares with ONE color on the inside; it'll be white."
(http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Technology/Pix/pictures/2012/6/7/1339037799823/Windows-8-Start-001.jpg)
Why does this have to be so basic looking. Why do the tiles have to be 2x1? You couldn't customize it on the WP7, so I wouldn't doubt that you can't here. It looks like you can change the colors, so maybe you can also change the tile size.
I found with the phone, having those "fancy" live-tiles, I spent more time waiting than I did doing stuff. When you have text messages or emails, then press the home button to see the live-tiles that have anything new. You'd have to wait at least 1-2 seconds until the animation changes from its previous number to the new number. I don't want to wait. Change the bloody thing in the background. I don't care that you have a fancy transition that changes to show how many texts I have. I don't like waiting. The animation is NOT worth the time.
In most circumstances it wasn't a problem, but when I was texting multiple people at once and going back and forth, it definitely became cumbersome. Also not having the Notifications drop-down that Android and the iPhone, really sucked. Pressing home All the time. Waiting. Pressing the tile. Waiting for the fancy transition that took too bloody long. Waiting again. Some dots rolling by the screen constantly.
Lol Yes. I got very annoyed of that phone. Which is why I only had it for a year even though I had a 3 year contract on it. It wasn't worth it. That's why I worry Win8 will fall into the same boat.
I've always been a Windows supporter, but maybe in several years when Win7 is behind the times, I may end up switching to its competition. Of course I'll give Win8 a try first, using someone's computer. But if they stick to this style, I'll likely be gone.
Let's just hope the fancy metro tiles style isn't forced down your throat with Win8. I need to have it turned off, or I'll never use it.
It sounds like a train wreck only Microsoft could be capable of, but then they are seeing a record loss of profits for the first time in their history.
It seems like more and more mainstream companies are trying to use literal force to drive consumers either:
1. To accept any draconian laws and/or regulations imposed upon them.
or
2. To open-sourced alternatives that, while suffering from lower compatibility and a steeper learning curve, continue to support individual user rights and dignity.
And it also seems like open-source alternatives are starting to pick up steam with items like OUYA on the horizon. It may be the first console I've bought in ages. Needless to say, I will not be buying Windows 8 while it operates under a closed-minded and fascist business model. They may as well just change the startup jingle to the sound of Nazi goosestepping.
Frankly I can't see myself using a touchscreen computer for all the programming and writing I do, either personally or professionally.
Some of this sounds like Win8 is forced onto us.
Seeing as lots of AAA games still run on WinXP, I don't really care if Win8 is shitty until maybe 10 years from now when companies stop supporting Win7. It was entirely possible to just skip the shitty Vista, so let's all wait for Win9.
I'd also never buy a computer where Win8 is pre-installed and I'm paying for its license, so the whole thing is really a non-issue for me.
The design is the only logical next step in the transparent/aqua/flashy/FX battle that was going on. While I don't particularly like it, I think simplicity is a good thing. As long as they don't start like apple and hide or disable all customization.
(As a side note, don't by the OUYA. It's very likely a scam, if an unintentional one.)
Quote from: Khris on Tue 31/07/2012 10:49:06(As a side note, don't by the OUYA. It's very likely a scam, if an unintentional one.)
What makes you think so?
This: http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2407046,00.asp
How can a scam be unintentional? Isn't that an oxymoron?
I've been using Windows 8 now for a few months and have to say I'm absolutely loving it. It's clean and modern, easy to navigate; although takes a little while to get around. Support is great so far for all my existing and new software. Heck, I'm even playing Discworld Noir on it!
edit: for those who say it's a 'tablet only os' I disagree completely. It still has the old familiar desktop, explorer etc... the only difference is that the start menu is now a full-screen grid. The early consumer previous had a lot of 'touch only' commands and gestures that were difficult with a keyboard and mouse but they resolved all the issues a few months back now.
Again, it's different. People fear change. Once you get the feel for it it's so much easier. The icons on the new start menu are really big and I'm finding I can navigate and do my day-to-day tasks easier.
If I want to just surf the web I can treat it like a 'tablet' style interface with a full screen browser. Or if I want to code I switch back into the more traditonal desktop mode.
I'm interested to know exactly how good compatability is with old games.
I have a lot of old games that are often hard to get working. I'd upgrade to Windows 8 if there were significant increases to the ease with which I could play these old games. I'd like to see more comment on the support for older software.
ScummVM will probably be running on Win8 too. Haven't tested it though.
@ProgZ: Have you evaluated Windows88 ? :)
Anyway, I hardly ever use the start button and MacOS doesn't have this at all, so I think I won't miss it. As long as it's stable and fast, I'll be fine.
So I guess I'm pretty much on Magintz' side here, even though I haven't "touched" it yet.
With youtube and hundreds of review sites you don't really even need to evaluate software yourself anymore to get a good idea of what it does and what it does not do well, and judging from what I've been reading it doesn't really do anything that I care about better than windows 7, and it has a bunch of things I definitely do not like. I just don't approve of the continuing direction toward catering to the lowest common denominator, ie, computer illiterates.
It seems like instead of simplifying and optimizing the core of the actual OS they just go for esthetics of it and limiting the user (that's what really annoyed the hell out of me in W7) in what you can do or what you can access and only ends up in a user trying to fix something that went wrong with the OS, but has to fight the interface and access issues of the W7.
I know very little about inner workings of Windows, but I also had to fix bugs and troubleshootings more than a few times and I only managed that by searching through the internet. I just seriously doubt that they fixed the many issues in W8.
Quote from: Khris on Tue 31/07/2012 12:47:09
This: http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2407046,00.asp
Sounded like he had more of a problem with Kickstarter itself then the OUYA. Regardless, he does bring up a good point: smaller companies (and large ones too) simply don't have a good grip on the logistics of such projects. They could have some of the best hardware & software designers around, it would still mean nothing if they can't find somewhere to manufacture it, someone to sell it, someone to distribute it, etc. Lord have mercy on their souls if they don't even have a decent salesman...
Getting back on track, I haven't been paying any attention at all to Windows 8 for the same reason I refuse to watch My Little Pony: it gives me an excuse to not have to talk or think about it. Contrary to popular practice, opinions should be based on facts sprinkled with personal feelings, not the latest rumors and gossip. Without the facts, I can not assemble a proper opinion. If I can not assemble a proper opinion, I have no reason to speak.
Even though I've put effort into ignoring W8, I still know juuuuust enough about it (two things) to know that I'll hate it with a passion. First and most obvious it's another attempt to sell computers to idiots. I normally wouldn't have an issue with this, except when it seems that they think everyone but themselves is technologically retarded. Second, I hate touch screens. Give me a mouse and keyboard any day. I'd rather have CTS then a touch screen.
I'm still using Windows XP, and occasionally Debian. I haven't completely gotten lost in Linux-land because Windows still has
much better game support (and da AGS editor :D )