Hi all,
I have been thinking about this for quite some time; how about an Windows setup/installer for AGS. I see a Zip, but no installer version.
To create an windows setup it's quite easy using Inno Setup. I already created various installers and would be happy in asisting building a AGS Setup.exe.
Inno Setup is a great freeware installer creator for all versions of windows and it's also great to create installers for your finished AGS games.
What are your thoughts about this?
Greetings
Only thing is, is doesn't really NEED installing/setting up, just unzipping. So, really, it would just be a bigger download for no real reason. Also, since updated versions are released fairly regularly, it's be a hassle to have to un-install and re-install every other month just to keep up with the betas.
Don't mean to be rude, it's not a bad idea, it just seems unnecessary to me.
There was a release with one a while ago..
Is it really needed?
If someone isn't smart enough to open a zip file by themself, then chances are they won't be able to make a game anyway. :P
I personally think it just gives AGS a more professional look.. It doesn't really increase the file size THAT much.. And it's only a problem if you still use 28kb modems...
And Ashen, as far as betas go, they don't have to use the installer.. Because it's just for testing, and isn't an official release.
"AGS is not for everyone. If you don't know how to open a zip file, you probably wouldn't learn AGS too fast"
Or something... This is like the same thing with the christmas eve joke...
And I totally agree with Ashen.
Quoteas far as betas go, they don't have to use the installer.. Because it's just for testing, and isn't an official release.
But when they d/l the beta, most people use that instead of the earlier version, making the 'official', installed release obsolete. And yes, an installer is more professional looking but, as has been said, if you're going to be put off by a zip file, maybe AGS isn't for you in the first place.
"...is doesn't really NEED installing/setting up, just unzipping...Also, since updated versions are released fairly regularly, it's be a hassle to have to un-install and re-install every other month just to keep up with the betas." [Ashen]
Sure thing, is does not *need* an installer. But uninstall/reinstall is not nececery if the installer is set up right. Also I would suggest nut generating a setup for every Beta version that comes around.
"I personally think it just gives AGS a more professional look.." [LilGryphMaster]
I agree, and it would make thing easy by making shortcuts -if you need them and I dont wake up in the middle of the night wondering where I have unzipped AGS.
"AGS is not for everyone. If you don't know how to open a zip file, you probably wouldn't learn AGS too fast" [TK]
Sure thing, lol. But let's make a parallel to another developers tool, say Delphi, it's not offered as zip file. (because of many reasons I'm sure.)
"AGS is not for everyone. If all you know is how to open a zip file..." :)
I totally agree with Ashen, but if there should ever be an installer, PLEASE keep the zip as an alternative.
There should be a feature in the forum, that shows under or next to or whereever a zip icon if the user has set that they want a zip file, and a setup icon if they have set that they want an installer...
Or, on second thought, not.
Quote from: MOTAS on Tue 04/05/2004 15:09:27
I agree, and it would make thing easy by making shortcuts -if you need them and I dont wake up in the middle of the night wondering where I have unzipped AGS.
You can make the shortcuts yourself... I have made. And, I don't need to wonder where I unzipped it, as it is always the same dir, "D:\AGS"... I just rename older version folders to like "AGS255" and unzip the newest version to "AGS".
You wake up in the night thinking where you unzipped AGS..?? :o
Just do what I do. Provide a fancy installer with html manuals and whatnot, and a zip file with a simple readme.txt manual (two options!)
I personally like installer for bigger games like pleurghburg or king's quest VGA and whatnot, but I think demos, ron, or mags games should just be on zip files since you play them quickly and there's no need to have them installed
The thing with install/uninstall thingies is it puts crap in my registry, my start menu, and desktop that I don't want there! And as far as having shortcuts intsalled with it so you don't forget where you installed it to? Thats just dumb anyone who Is smart enough to run AGS and create a game will put shortcuts and such were they want them, and they definatley won't forget where they installed to? If I'm right usually the only people that lose files or don't know where they are on a computer, are usually people that don't use a computer regulary, and there for wouldnt' want anything to do with AGS in the first place. And if your using AGS and ziping and your whole filesystem (C:) is confusing, find another hobby cause this isn't it. So in all I realy think this is a crap idea, and If AGS went to install/uninstall crap, there had better be a zip, I prefer to put shorcuts, icons, & registry entries my self thank you.
Oh, and some people, I repeat, someone people think this is a giant feat to do this but what they don't know is that it takes like a minute to make one of them self install/uninstall programs, and to me its not professional it makes AGS looks cheesy with the install/unistall. Maybe if it was like a 100mb 200mb download/program, you pay $100 for and its self installed. But come on AGS is like 2 megs which is perfect for .zip WTF I know this will never happen but if it does I hope there will be a .zip version because before you know it with a AGS install/uninstalller would probally end up with a nifty adware program to go along with as an agreement to use it (email registration, shareware blah blah blah). Well wouldnt surprise me but the whole Idea reminds me of, corporate software, and $$$$$
CAUTION VERY OPINIONATED
If I'm not mistaken the release Custard was refering to may have been a test release for this idea.
Chris did use Inno Setup for it, great program.
I think he did a vote or something and determined that most AGSers preferred zip, so went back to that.
EDIT: Oh, and my thoughts on it, I liked it, but zip is just as fine.
later,
-junc
I did consider doing this at one point, and indeed there was one release that used the installer.
But an exhaustive poll on the AGS website (it ran for 18 months and had over 2000 votes) came out with 52% in favour of a plain zip file, and 48% wanting the installer.
Considering the number of votes, that result was amazingly close, but I've stuck by it, so AGS won't be using an installer.
Would you consider having a mirror host an installer version?
Ofcourse a zipped version should always be available.
About Adware? Hey it's AGS we're talking about. And the *only* registry entries are for the uninstaller ;) And all icons are ofcourse optional. If chris would make the installer won't you think he won't keep things like this in mind?
About the poll... Considering the close vote results I think a Setup version is justified, as it's almost 50/50. And an installer is made in 10 minutes with Inno Setup. (I use it to make an installer for my game MOTAS)
I think an installer for AGS would make this great tool look more professional and might attract new users that might have been put off by the lack of a proper setup / uninstall. I know, perhaps thos people should not use AGS because of that, but hey, I also see the many positive factors.
Hopefully future versions of AGS will also offer an windows setup :) I would be happy to help to put one together.
Is it a good idea to host any windows setup on a mirror and not on the main website?
And ofcourse you understand I was joking :) when I said I wake up in the middle of the night ;)
Quote from: MOTAS on Wed 05/05/2004 01:17:17
I think an installer for AGS would make this great tool look more professional and might attract new users that might have been put off by the lack of a proper setup / uninstall.
If there is ANYONE out there who is turned off by a lack of a "proper" installation front end... I don't think I'd even want to look at them.
AGS unzips what, 10 files? That needs an installer? I like to be able to unzip AGS to my AGS folder and keep it all in one place, so to appease me CJ would have to make a zip and an installer and put them both up. Again, I'd rather he worked on AGS than tried to make everyone happy on something as silly as how it's distributed.
/me hates installers badly.
But then it's just personal preference, I won't care if the ZIP version is still available.
Looking at this post, most everyone but MOTAS and LGM hates installers pretty hard.
Just to add to the "Woo Zip files!" side.
Installers are completely cosmetic. They do nothing more and add uneeded steps to customizing how and where you want the software.
Installers killed my brother.
Installers make it difficult to pick out a particular file.
Installers have been traced to causing both world wars.
People who want installers generally have no better reason then "It looks pretty".
Installers breed decadence.
Giving an option of a Zip or Install version means more storage space will be used for extremely little reasoning. This includes mirrors and engine history archiving.
Installers are the main source for penis envy.
Finally...
Start worrying about your projects. If the biggest thing on your mind is 'I want AGS to be pretty when I install it' then you should start eating faces. Zombie!
Now, see, this is the rude version of my 'Don't mean to be rude, but...' post.
My cousin has quite a temper on some things, as he told me a while back that during a month he had deleted AGS six times, because nothing was working... if people install AGS, get mad at it (be it their ignorance or a fault in the engine), and delete the folder, then try to re-install, it's not possible because the registery tells that the porgram is already there...
What was already mentioned, the zip contains like 10 files? What are you supposed to do, if, say, a virus contaminates your agsedit.exe? You need to re-install the whole thing. If you have the zip, you just need to extract agsedit.exe from it.
Hehe.
Look I know it's a sensitive issue guys (and gals). But there *WAS* a poll about this, yes?! And the pol was, let's be honest, almost 50/50. Where are those other 1000 people now!?
Anyway, I don't think creating an installer would take to much time. (Uploading takes longer) and a setup wont be 10 times as big as the zip.
Whatever we all personally think or want, it's not wrong to consider an windows setup. And I think *both* zip and exe should be available.
PS. deleting the folder and re-install would make no difference ;) Ofcourse it won't tell the programm is already installed. If you get a virus, you just re-install AGS. An installer is not much more than an self extracting zip.
Oh well, perhaps I should just zip it ;)
I hate 48% of AGS users.
I love 52% of AGS users.
Yeah I agree with most people here about the evils of installers... except as netmonkey pointed out, larger programs should have an installer. AGS is not a large program. I don't want an installer messing with my computer. With a zip, I know exactly whats happening, and everythinks hunky dory...
There have been extremely few occasions where an installer has been actually needed...I guess it's good if you have included certain flics that need certain codecs installed and so on.
If you have just ordinary ags-files, it's completely superfluous. Of course, it looks a bit fancier.
If there is a freeware winzip-style (you can choose which files to extract) style self-extractor maker, then I do not oppose, but an installer... I would understand the need for an installer if AGS would be 30MB, containing all kinds of sample/premade sprites, animations, sounds and sample games (like, for example Klik 'n' Play and Game Maker did), but as it is only a few MB package, I want to keep it simple.
The main purpose of the installer is to automate the whole installation process, look for and set up links with some of the already installed software, configurate the program in order to work correctly with the operation system and so on. AGS just has a few things to setup, and that's what it successfully does when you start it the very first time.
AGS editor puts some generic entries into the regestry but they are all of vital importance and don't clutter it up in either way.
Some people prefer that every program should have an installer but I believe what they really want is a reliable uninstall routine to delete program's files and clean up the regestry entries the setup made before (which is the big problem with the most of them).
Personally, I prefer AGS to be distributed as a plain zip archive, but then again it just for AGS (for example, I really don't want to to "install" ms office this way).
~Cheers
I have to admit, the first thing that pops into my head when I download something that could be zipped, but has an installer instead, isn't "Wow. How pretty," but "Wow. How pretensious." Except it would most likely be spelled better.
I like the zip file. When I download new versions I don't need to get things like CJ's LucasArts template (which I'm never going to use), and I don't really care about a lot of the documents. I just unzip what I need, and the rest of it stays compactly on the harddisk in case I DO need it one day.
About the 52/48 split on the vote: approximatly 1160 people wanted the zip. 960 wanted the installer. A difference of 7 people is almost 50/50. Not 200.
I don't think an installer is necessary but If you think an installer makes a larger file size than a zip, rar or ace, then you haven't done your research.
I just tried an example with ags, the current beta version is 3.49MB
and using the mentioned Innosetup it compresses to 3.13MB
not that much difference, but for larger files it makes more difference.
I think it should stay as a zip, I'm just clearing up some peoples misconceptions.
But yes, I too prefer knowing exactly what files and where I want them, rather than creating unwanted menus etc.
i don't know much about ags-games but i know that setup-files are quite unecessary for them.
but if anybody wants to have setup-files and owns ms visual studio you can make setup-files really easily. oh...and if you don't own visual studio you can make setup files by using a lot of almost freeware-programs you can find in the net or you use an exe-creator for winzip/rar or do anything different...
Talking about a setup for games... My adventure game will have a windows setup. Letting user choose if they want shortcuts and where, etc.
As for freeware (and open source for that matter) installers I would advise Inno Setup as it creates the fastest and smallest setups -and due to pascal scripting it's very powerfull. It beat's the big boys like Wise, InstallShield, etc.
Anyway, I will download the ZIP anytime ( when a windows setup is unavailable :) ).
Cheers :)