wow, mspaint

Helm · Sun 19/02/2006 08:18:53

Quote from: Nikolas on Sun 19/02/2006 07:31:57
Quote from: Helm on Sun 19/02/2006 07:23:24
why, back in my day...
Yes granny you did...

Get my joke.

Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens · Sun 19/02/2006 08:39:27

QuoteThe demoscene produced amazing artwork to be remembered.

Helm, I insist you stop making me Amiga nostalgic IMMEDIATELY. God, I remember just downloading scene demos instead of games because looking at the crazy shit they could pull off was more fun than 85% of the games out :o. As far as this Paint thing goes, it's clear he did it for some kind of bragging rights (his comment in the topic pretty much cements it) rather than because he has no alternative paint program. His point also falls a little flat imo, since it's logical to use whatever program works best for you rather than downgrade and suffer with a lack of brush and color options. It looks quite good, I admit, but I also don't believe he didn't trace anything. The Gandalf picture, for example, looks traced to me in all honesty- and the game sprites I'd bet are rips.

Las Naranjas · Sun 19/02/2006 08:53:18

I assume Kinoko must be a fan of the Dogma school of film making, cutting off one's nose to hardcorise one's face.

Nikolas · Sun 19/02/2006 09:10:38

Quote from: Helm on Sun 19/02/2006 08:18:53
Quote from: Nikolas on Sun 19/02/2006 07:31:57
Quote from: Helm on Sun 19/02/2006 07:23:24
why, back in my day...
Yes granny you did...
Get my joke.

Get mine!

EldKatt · Sun 19/02/2006 10:08:21

What impresses me about the picture is the ridiculously huge amount of free time the guy must have. I admire a man who gives up everything else in his life so that he can make an enormous piece of okay but bland pixel art with pointlessly hard-to-use software so that he can show his acquaintances on the Internet how little else he has to do with his time.

As art, objectively viewed, this honestly doesn't impress me a great deal (and I must admit that I can't comprehend the logic behind the idea that this would have anything to do with jealousy). As a display of the heroic sacrifice of "somewhere around 100 hours" to something ridiculously pointless, I can nod acknowledgingly at his geekiness, but that's it.

And even there it falls short: MS Paint, pixel art, and pop culture references have been around for a while. It doesn't take a genius to combine them into this idea. Now, building a playable harpsichord almost entirely from LEGO parts--that's a truly impressive feat. It requires far more imagination and craftsmanship, and it's much more esoteric than pictures of Pikachu and Gandalf. Henry Lim is a true hero.

Nikolas · Sun 19/02/2006 10:29:23

There are two seperate things in art.

Creativity aka imagination and technic aka what you know.

the guy here had the technique to do something like that in Mspaint, apparently huge ammounts of time, enormous ego and no imagination whatsoever.

I cannot admire a guy for copying something.

Of course he is very good technically speaking but can be accomplished by a lot of people. Creativity on the other hand seems a little rare...

So yes, impressive, definately? Worth something? not really. Did this guy pesruade me to try out MS paint? NO WAY! Is he being paid by Microsoft? Have no idea, but I highly doubt it... Do I have a sense of humour? Have no idea!

EldKatt · Sun 19/02/2006 10:47:38

I'm beginning to question his technical skill as well. Google images turned up this image on the first page. I had to do some scaling, but it wasn't difficult to do a little comparison:

(See also http://biphome.spray.se/erik.igelstrom/agsf/gandalf_trace.gif for a more high-tech animation.)

This leads me to the conclusion that he has either traced it, or he is some sort of awesome cybernetic photocopying device. For some reason I'm even less impressed now.

Kinoko · Sun 19/02/2006 11:00:48

Given the amount of time spent on it, I think it's QUITE conceivable that he simply used it as a reference and copied without tracing.

Saberteeth · Sun 19/02/2006 11:03:10

So wait, does this mean that he didn't draw the image by himself as he first boasted? That's just plain old crap(I mean the lying about the pic... $:-\$ )! That was totally traced!

Barbarian · Sun 19/02/2006 12:14:17

Well, here's a link to a page that appearantly shows some of the stages of the "Gandalf" stage of his picture (and he does say it was the hardest part of his picture to do): http://www.swmoore.com/paintproof.htmlÃ,Â , so it's possible that with careful eye-to-hand coordination, lots of natural skill, and lots of time that he could have copied it carefully "freehand" and it might appear that he traced it.Ã,Â Ã,Â Myself, I'm not such like a "good" artist, however, if I spend a lot of time with pencil & paper, I can come up with (and have before in the past) a fairly accurate "copy" of a reference picture by doing it freehand (without tracing).Ã,Â Anyways, either way, I think the guy is very talented.Ã,Â

EldKatt · Sun 19/02/2006 12:26:24

I fail to see how shots of the drawing in various stages in any way prove that he didn't trace it. Assuming that he didn't, though, he must have continuously been measuring it very carefully--pixel by pixel. I don't reckon this requires either eye-to-hand coordination or natural skill. Just a very unlikely amount of time and patience.

Anyway, I don't really understand why it's so difficult to accept--in light of a comparison with the reference image--that some guy traced pictures and lied about it. This is the Internet.

Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens · Sun 19/02/2006 13:55:33

There's just no way. Eldkatt showed pretty definitively that it was a paintover. Look at the precise location of EVERY SINGLE FINGER in his hand, even it's location on the staff. If he had not done a paintover the hand would have been slightly lower, a finger skewed or a bit short, etc. I'm not sure why he even bothered hiding it really.

Barbarian · Sun 19/02/2006 15:19:30

Yep. you're probably right that the guy traced it. And I wasn't really trying to defend the guy, just I wanted to share his website link that he claims was "proof" that he drew it all himself. But taking a closer at the pic by Eldkatt, yeah, most likely there was tracing involved.
Anyways, it's still a cool piece of artwork.

Gandalf rocks.

LGM · Sun 19/02/2006 18:33:33

Sarcasm seems to glaze over half the people in this forum..

Anyway, I'm with Helm. I'm no demo scene enthusiast, but I totally respect those guys alot more than some kiddie who spends 100+ hours on something inconsistently drawn and generally uninteresting.

"Hey! Let's throw in refreneces to popular video games and films and people will LOVE whatever I 'draw'!"

Tom S. Fox · Mon 20/02/2006 18:58:50

Ah, someone's jealously!

Grapefruitologist · Mon 20/02/2006 20:44:11

"What impresses me about the picture is the ridiculously huge amount of free time the guy must have. I admire a man who gives up everything else in his life so that he can make an enormous piece of okay but bland pixel art with pointlessly hard-to-use software so that he can show his acquaintances on the Internet how little else he has to do with his time."

What amazes me if the ridiculously huge amount of free time all of you must have. It's just a picture. He may or may not have traced it (which, I don't believe you can do on Paint, if it is a Paint picture), but it's a good picture. It's not that big of a deal. It's put together good and it has good art. Instead of argueing about if he has talent or not, why don't you just go and get on with your lives and draw something better or whatever you're working on? And if you have to keep talking about this, just judge the picture, if it's good or not. Even that is a definate waste of time, seeing as this isn't your art, and neither has it been posted in the Critic's Lounge. It's just some random guy's picture on the internet. While all you keep argueing about if he has talent or not, I'll be working on my own art, and the way it's going looks like I'll be done before you settle this case (and the sequel, too.)

(I myself am going to hang it on my wall, whether or not it's completely traced)

big brother · Mon 20/02/2006 21:19:20

I don't think someone who is printing this shit out and hanging it on the wall should be lecturing the rest of us about wasting our time.

EldKatt · Mon 20/02/2006 21:58:36

Quote from: Grapefruitologist on Mon 20/02/2006 20:44:11
What amazes me if the ridiculously huge amount of free time all of you must have. It's just a picture. He may or may not have traced it (which, I don't believe you can do on Paint, if it is a Paint picture), but it's a good picture. It's not that big of a deal. It's put together good and it has good art. Instead of argueing about if he has talent or not, why don't you just go and get on with your lives and draw something better or whatever you're working on?

See, here's the thing. I don't think it's a particularly good picture. The fact that he also traced it and lied about it is just icing on the cake.

And if we were so keen on not wasting time, we wouldn't be reading General Discussion, would we? Or printing some random guy's picture that we found on the Internet and hanging it on the wall.

Grapefruitologist · Mon 20/02/2006 23:14:25

Well, whatever. I myself like the picture.

ManicMatt · Mon 20/02/2006 23:29:02

Hey grapefruit, why don't you have an avatar?

It gives you an identity! For weeks I thought Chicky was a hot woman! And progZmax thinks it's still christmas! And Helm with his funny disguise thingy going on! And me barely visible in the dark with a red light shining at me..... is it a sniper's sight?