your opinion on Roswell UFO crash

[arthur.com]

i want to know your opinion on Roswell UFO crash ot of curiosity.
Was it real or just bogus?

[space boy]

http://skepticality.libsyn.com/index.php?post_id=7539#

[Darth Mandarb]

How could a UFO have crashed in Roswell and not have been real?

I kid I kid ...

Personally I think it's all a smoke-screen to keep people's attentioned focused on something, while the true "black book" stuff (or Blue Book if you follow the whole thing) goes on somewhere else.

[Nacho]

It was a case that was not even believed by the mistery raiders in those days... It became famous when a jerk wrote a book in the eighties. 0 reliebility... well... Like all the UFO issues.

I mean... let' s be serious. Imagine you have a space ship which can cover 15 or 20 light year distances... Why the hell would you put flashy yellow position lights on it?

Would you travel for 15 or 20 years just for scaring a peasant in the middle of Russia?

All this UFO thing is so rediculous... If you know a bit of it, you must know that all the "UFO legends" (Sightings-crashes-abductions and conspiracy) were created less than a year after Arnold' s incident. It's like a thriller were all the action happens in the first 5 minutes, all the rest is really, really boring.

[MrColossal]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2334857802602777622&q=physics+for+future+presidents+roswellotal=3&start=0&num=10&so=0ype=search&plindex=0

All the explanation you'd need on Roswell, in my opinion. It's all so simple really.

[Gregjazz]

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,21994224-2,00.html

[Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens]

Interesting, Greg.  Deathbed confessions (if this can be verified to be true) are usually fairly reliable.  I mean you're going to die so why lie?  It's not like he can take fame with him.

[Nacho]

Interesting, Greg.  Deathbed confessions (if this can be verified to be true) are usually fairly reliable.  I mean you're going to die so why lie?  It's not like he can take fame with him.

Not really... You can allways leave this world with a final joke...

[Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens]

That's a pretty thin argument.  I've never heard of someone dying who was happy enough about it to joke (aside from movies).  Eric's youtube video was interesting as well, though.

[MrColossal]

HUGE logical fallacy, Progz, your argument is even thinner. Do you have statistics on deathbed confessions? Eyewitness evidence is also some of the worst evidence there is. Not to mention decades later eyewitness evidence.

[Nacho]

@ Prog.

Oh, come on... "Excuse me if I don' t stand up" (In Grouxo Marx' s gravestone). Maybe he was not dying, but he developed the idea, during hir long and healthy life, to leave this world with a joke.

Andy Kauffman was able to create the legend during his cancer that all was a prank and that he will come back in ten years (Actually an impersonator came saying he was Andy, dunno if he did with Andy' s permission before his death or not...)

Also, one of the most terrible theories about "Roswell" (Not saying that I believe it...) say that bodies of captured japanese soldiers were used shortly after the war to see the effects of heights in human bodies (using balloons). So, imagine a couple of small, bad feed, shaved japanese soldiers thrown by a high height by accident... Might those bodies resemble to a "grey alien"? IMO, yes, they do. Who can deny that maybe that "deathbed confessor" confussed alien bodies with captured soldiers? That confession has not value at all for me, sorry.

I think you don't really believe in the Roswell accident, because you said "interesting" better than "That's a big evidence!!!", so, read this as a "low profile" post. No hard feelings. 

[m0ds]

The report concluded that the Roswell incident had been attributable to something called Project Mogul, a top secret project using high-altitude balloons to carry sensor equipment into the upper atmosphere, listening for evidence of Soviet nuclear tests.

A second US Air Force report concluded claims bodies were recovered were generated by people having seen crash test dummies that were dropped from the balloons.

That's the most stupid explanation I've ever heard. Do they think the general public is George W Bush or something? So what they're saying now is that it was actually just a sensory test in the upper atmosphere...so, erm, why did they drop dummies out of it? And why did the bodies land in the same spot as the balloons? LOL. Stupid.

I'll still go with the UFO story myself. There's plenty of great YouTube videos of objects that look pretty damn real, the one I'm thinking of specifically I can't find. But it was two brothers than recorded this spinning UFO for literally 4 minutes, and the footage was anaylysed by top Hollywood CG artists who concluded there was no way it could've been composited over the top.

Anyway, i'm biassed cos i've seen one, so yeah, if Roswell wasn't an alien UFO it was a government UFO.

[Gregjazz]

http://freeinternetpress.com/story.php?sid=12827

Just feeding the fire.

[Darth Mandarb]

Something that was flying did crash at Roswell ... since they can't seem to identify what it is/was doesn't that, technically, confirm it as a UFO?

Now if we're talking alien UFO ... well then I don't know.

I wasn't there and, at this point, there's so much rumor and speculation floating around with so many "facts" and "reports" it's all lost in the haze as far as I'm concerned.

I still maintain it was all a "smoke screen" to get people focusing their attention there.

[Stupot]

This is my theory.

The moon landings were faked.
They were filmed at area 51.
The US government crashed an aircraft in Roswell, made it look like they were trying to cover it up so that all the conspiracy theorists concentrated on alien cover-up theories.
The Government took the aircraft and the so called alien and made the fake autopsy video to further feed the gullible conspiracy theorists.
This is why everyone thinks Area 51 is where the body of the alien is and the ufo and thats why it's a secret area.
But the real reason area 51 is cordoned off is because that is where they filmed the moon landings.

The whole alien cover-up was itself a cover-up to hide the true reason for Area 51.

Anyone else buy this... I've long thought the moon landings were faked and when I stopped believing in Aliens coming to Earth in flying saucers I realised the two conspiracy theories could be linked.

[Vince Twelve]

Worth noting that the guy who made the "deathbed confession" discussed above was the founder and president of the International UFO museum in Roswell...  I'd say that qualifies it for the "grain of salt" approach.

[Nacho]

This is my theory.

The moon landings were faked.
They were filmed at area 51.
The US government crashed an aircraft in Roswell, made it look like they were trying to cover it up so that all the conspiracy theorists concentrated on alien cover-up theories.
The Government took the aircraft and the so called alien and made the fake autopsy video to further feed the gullible conspiracy theorists.
This is why everyone thinks Area 51 is where the body of the alien is and the ufo and thats why it's a secret area.
But the real reason area 51 is cordoned off is because that is where they filmed the moon landings.

The whole alien cover-up was itself a cover-up to hide the true reason for Area 51.

Anyone else buy this... I've long thought the moon landings were faked and when I stopped believing in Aliens coming to Earth in flying saucers I realised the two conspiracy theories could be linked.

Yeah that makes sense... faking an alien spacecraft in 1946 to hide some filmation locations that were going to be used in 1969... the US government has clarividence powers!

[Stupot]

Haha.  Okay so maybe my timeline's a bit squew wiff... for some reason I thought Roswell happened in the late fifties.

But the essence of my theory stands.  The moon landings were filmed in area 51.  Knowing that people associated Area51 with aliens meant that they could film the landings there and people wouldn't guess.

Mark my words. One day I'll be saying I told you so (unless I die under mysterious circumstances one day... If I do you'll know I was onto something).

[evenwolf]

Aliens are easier to believe in than ghosts and unicorns.   But Im not so sure Roswell means a damned thing.

[Vince Twelve]

So, stu, what you're saying is that you can believe that an alien civilization managed to cross more than 40,000,000,000,000 kilometers (the distance to the nearest star) to come to our planet, but you can't believe that we managed to go 400,000 kilometers to the moon?  That's .000001% of the distance.

Not to mention how silly it is to think that a civilization advanced enough to launch a manned space flight over that ridiculous distance could be dumb enough to accidentally crash once it got here...

Occam's razor, people.

[Stupot]

Aliens must surely exist.  We cant be the only planet out of billions and billions of planets in the universe that contains life.  And it's just as plausible to assume that we are only average and that there exist planets whose inhabitants are dumber than us and other planets whose creatures are far more advanced than us...

I find it highly unlikely that we'll ever meet anyone from one of the latter camp. It simply isn't physically possible to just fly about the universe willy nilly... (i don't think).  So an alien crash landing on Earth is too far fetched for me.

[Vince Twelve]

Ah, I see.  I misread.  You DON'T believe that aliens have come to earth and also don't believe that we've been to the moon.

I'm with you on the alien part, but the moon?  Seriously?

What part of the mountain of evidence proving that we HAVE been to the moon don't you believe?

[Ali]

Knowing that people associated Area51 with aliens meant that they could film the landings there and people wouldn't guess.

I don't particularly object to what you're saying, but this is the least logical statement I've heard in a good long while.

"Should we check inside that Government facility to see if they're faking the moon landing?" asked Joe.
"No," answered Jane, "It's associated with aliens."

[radiowaves]

Aliens are on and IN the Moon! They don't have to travel lightyears. Moon anomalies have been viewed long before first manned space flight. You could even see blurred out areas of NASA photographs.

And space travel doesn't necessarily mean traveling lightyears, there could also be a time warp, bending space and time like Hiro Nakamura did.

[Nacho]

And space travel doesn't necessarily mean traveling lightyears, there could also be a time warp, bending space and time like Hiro Nakamura did.

So, they have that amazing tecnology, but they are not able to visit us without leaving evidences? No stealth tecnology? That' s like saying that they can do atomic bombs, but didn' t discovered the wheel, I am afraid...

[radiowaves]

Aliens could not be humans, so they probably won't think like humans. Maybe evidence is there but is just ignored and therefore unseen. Maybe we are too stupid to understand their ways of communicating or maybe we are just not worth of communicating with them.

[Khris]

Stupot: Sorry, but saying the moon landing was a fake makes you look really uninformed. Or ignorant. You are entitled to your own opinion, but don't pull it out of your ass, base it on the known facts. Every single argument the fake-believers have brought up is actually proof mankind DID visit the moon.
http://www.badastronomy.com/bad/tv/foxapollo.html

radiowaves: Are you serious? Aliens are on and IN the moon?

[Stupot]

Actually I'm both uninformed and ignorant.
We all are.  The government likes to keep it that way.

[Vince Twelve]

Luckily, you can make yourself informed by listening, reading, and questioning.  I'd suggest starting with the link KhrisMUC posted.

Being informed and ignorant is a choice that you make for yourself.

[Stupot]

I already know all the debunkings of the the fake moon landing theories.
I'm only half joking.  I don't really beleive they were faked I just think it's a nice theory and I want to be able to say "I told you so" if they ever are proven to have been faked.

Believe me I did all the reading there is to do about these sorts conspiracy theories (both sides of the argument)  in the 90's when I was an X-files freak.

[Vince Twelve]

Hey, I won't judge you for being fascinated by conspiracies.  You're talking to a guy who had a replica of Mulder's "I want to believe" poster on his bedroom wall. 

[Stupot]

Haha, I wanted that but couldn't find it for years, then when I found it in a catalogue, they sent me a mug instead.

[Nacho]

Aliens could not be humans, so they probably won't think like humans. Maybe evidence is there but is just ignored and therefore unseen. Maybe we are too stupid to understand their ways of communicating or maybe we are just not worth of communicating with them.

Maybe, maybe, maybe... All those theories are full of maybes. But extraordinary statement need of extraordinary evidences... Otherwise, I could say they there are still dragons (but maybe, who knows? they have learned to jump into another dimension, or maybe they are invissible or live under the earth, maybe, maybe, maybe...)

Like travelling to the moon. Saying that a man has step into another sky body is an extraordinary statement... but there are extraordinary evidences! more than 200 hours of video footage, moon rocks, the lauchs seen by million of people from Cape Cañaveral... Reaching the moon, after the lauchs of the Saturns and being prooved to be possible the space docks in the orbit, going just two steps further (on road to moon and landing) seems to me 10 times more plausible that filming it in area 51.

Actually, we just need to use the logic. The russians never claimed the footage to be false. Don' t you think that the russians would have examined every frame of the footage with a magnifier to find an evidence that the "archi-enemy" never reached the moon? And if you want to quote "Kubrick's film theory", please, take a look to the credits of the documentary at the end... there you can see Kubrick' s widow, Rumsfeld and some of the other "intervieweds" laughing like kids for the prank. It was all a joke for having some fun!(*)

If you want to quote those funny "powerpoints" sent via email mentioning the "evidences" that we were never there (the stars do not shine, blah, blah, blah), read before the SCIENTIFIC reports de-mythifing that silly email. You' ll have some laughs. 

(*) I refer to a silly french documentary were Kubrick' s widow and some others (I.E. Donald Rumsfeld) claim that the footage was actually filmed by Kubrick's, who impressed the people at the pentagon after they saw 2001... The main documentary claim itself has a joke on it. Kubrick filmed 2001 after a lot of "real" space footage was filmed, being he, therefore, inpired in "real" footage to make the film, not the opposite.

[Afflict]

Interesting thread, your responses were also interesting.

Alien's exist, cause the bible told me so. So if you are a Christian you can't argue.

If indeed you don't believe in god, then well lets say when the big bang happened and the whole evolution scene was set in motion, that only one planet out of all the planets in the universe formed advanced life, well if those are the odds then the big bang probably didn't happen.
 

[Krysis]

I think they faked North America. It simply doesn't exist... It's actually Asia. They faked the whole thing. Columbus knew the truth!   

Seriosly speaking... Aliens might exist somewhere, but they are far different than anything you or I can even imagine.

[Nacho]

Seriosly speaking... Aliens might exist somewhere, but they are far different than anything you or I can even imagine.

They are, basically, FAR.

[arthur.com]

I think if the aliens are real then their race was created mutch earlier then ours and they have very low gravity on their planet. they build a spece vessel and fly to our planet and crash becouse of the gravity.
and then we all run to the crashing site take everything and distort the aliens,

seriously we humans are monsters. and to think that aliens may be evil.

[arthur.com]

If indeed you don't believe in god, then well lets say when the big bang happened and the whole evolution scene was set in motion, that only one planet out of all the planets in the universe formed advanced life, well if those are the odds then the big bang probably didn't happen.
 

if the big bang did happen what was outside that one...thing that voused the explosion.
you probably think nothing. buthow can there be just empty space with no gas or materia in it?

[Afflict]

No I don't think there was nothing, there had to be something. (In the Big Bang Theory) So I am going to take the easy way out here and say "Let there be light"

But seriously now, why in the heck do people even care where it all began, it's not like it matters. Seriously what are you gona do if you know ok it's 100% proven that we fell out of a tree somewhere between 10000bc % 5000bc or something. The whole where it all began talk is really boring, and I get semi frustrated when people go on these huge debates about it.

The truth of the matter is we will never ever know, and someday when some moron figures out how to build a time machine and travels back all the way and ends up in the explosion we will still not know 

[MrColossal]

Arthur, you're proposing a race of alien beings with such amazing technology that they can travel vast distances through space and yet don't realize that other planets have different gravity?

We're just normal humans with stone age technology compared to vast interstellar travel and we can calculate the gravity on planets we haven't even seen!

[radiowaves]

Maybe, maybe, maybe... All those theories are full of maybes. But extraordinary statement need of extraordinary evidences... Otherwise, I could say they there are still dragons (but maybe, who knows? they have learned to jump into another dimension, or maybe they are invissible or live under the earth, maybe, maybe, maybe...)

"Maybe" is what separates theory from a fact, so your paragraph was quite pointless

Actually, we just need to use the logic. The russians never claimed the footage to be false. Don' t you think that the russians would have examined every frame of the footage with a magnifier to find an evidence that the "archi-enemy" never reached the moon? And if you want to quote "Kubrick's film theory", please, take a look to the credits of the documentary at the end... there you can see Kubrick' s widow, Rumsfeld and some of the other "intervieweds" laughing like kids for the prank. It was all a joke for having some fun!(*)

Russians were drunk. Thats also the reason why they didn't fake it before Americans!

[Vince Twelve]

if the big bang did happen what was outside that one...thing that voused the explosion.
you probably think nothing. buthow can there be just empty space with no gas or materia in it?

But that's what space is... empty space with no gas or material in it.  Also known as a vacuum.  Though, most of space isn't perfect vacuum...

So what was outside the big bang?  That's the same as asking what is outside our universe.  The big bang was not an explosion of stuff in the center of the universe, it was the start of the universe.  At some finite point in the past, the universe was an infinite density with and infinite temperature, but it started rapidly expanding and cooling.  Today, the universe is the size that it is, and tomorrow it'll be a little bigger.

As for what is outside of the universe, or what created the point of infinite density and temperature that we named "The Big Bang," that's a question far beyond internet debate, and definitely far beyond a thread about Roswell...  :

"Maybe" is what separates theory from a fact, so your paragraph was quite pointless

This is true, depending on syntax, but a theory is also backed up by evidence and is testable and verifiable, making a theory much stronger than conjecture, which your post was.

[Stupot]

This is my interpretation of the big bang.  It's by no means fact (before moox jumps on me again), but it's the only way I can get my head around the theory.  See if it makes sense to you.

Don't confuse 'space' and 'universe'.  Space is space... nothingness, and goes on for eternity.  The universe is every material thing that is in that space.  Before the big bang there was just space and a hell of a lot of material floating about.  Everything has a density, even the slightest piece of dust.  And everything with a density had a gravitational pull.

Over a period of unimaginable time, billions and billions of years, the tiny specs of dust would cling to each other, creating slightly larger bits of material with larger gravitational pulls.  And these larger pieces would cling to other larger pieces making their pull even stronger.

This would go on and on until eventually a big ball of matter had a gravitational pull so immense that it sucked everything in space into one tiny, microscopic point.  The whole universe (not space, that still goes on for eternity, but everything in space; the universe) was a tiny dot in the center of space.

This tiny dot became unstable and eventually gave up, exploding all this matter into the vacuum of space.  This was the birth of our universe and all the dust and molecules have since then clung to each other to create bodies of matter such as stars and planets and life, and one day in billions of years time one of these bodies will become so large and have such a strong gravitational force that it will suck everything again into one tiny point and the process will happen again again for eternity.  Just as it has happened an infinite number of times before.

What do you reckon?
Sorry it was way off topic, but I was inspired.

[Vince Twelve]

Don't confuse 'space' and 'universe'.  Space is space... nothingness, and goes on for eternity.  The universe is every material thing that is in that space.

Don't confuse 'space' with 'vacuum' which is a volume of space that is devoid of matter.  But we know that there is no such thing as a perfect vacuum according to quantum theory, meaning that all space contains matter, even if the density is far far lower than the kind of density that we can artificially create here on Earth.  So, vacuum is part of the universe too.

The universe isn't something floating in space.  Space is something floating in the universe.  There is nothing outside of the universe because there is no outside.  The universe is finite and expanding, but while it expands, it's not taking space or volume away from something else, it's creating that volume.

The idea that the universe is bound for a Big Crunch, and eventually, another Big Bang is not a unique one, and while plausible, some recent studies have suggested that the universe's expansion is, in fact, accelerating rather than being slowed by gravity, which would suggest that the universe will not collapse, but will expand forever. 

I for one, can't wait to find out what happens.  I'll make popcorn! 

[Stupot]

Yeh, and I'll set up the deckchairs.  It's a sick joke that we spend so much time debating and wondering about these questions, but when the answer comes we'll all be long dead and won't be able to record it.

[evenwolf]

Eric, thanks for Muller's lecture.    Dont know why I havent seen articles about the declassification.     Explanation rocked my socks off.

[arthur.com]

Arthur, you're proposing a race of alien beings with such amazing technology that they can travel vast distances through space and yet don't realize that other planets have different gravity?

We can travel to the mars and we dont know if there was water

[MrColossal]

That... is completely different.

How intelligent would say a human was to just not know that there is no air in the ocean and jump in to explore it and drown in the process? Not very intelligent at all right?

Now imagine that human just travelled 200 million light years and drowned the first 2 minutes of arrival.

[Darth Mandarb]

We can travel to the mars and we dont know if there was water

http://www.nasa.gov/vision/universe/solarsystem/opportunity_water.html

Not only WAS there water on Mars ... there still is.

http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/mars/news/mgs-20061206.html

It should also be pointed out that, while impressive, traveling to Mars is VASTLY different than traveling to another star system.  Not really something that should even be compared in my opinion.

[RickJ]

Big Bang
Hmmm, Lets see if  I can get it right.

• The  universe, that is all of time, space, matter, and energy began as a singularity.   This singularity is not a point in space because all of space and time is contained within that point.  There is no such thing as "outside" or "before".
  
• At time=0s our universe came into exsistence.  At time=10^-43s, The universe was very small, dense, and hot.  Atoms could not even form at this time because of the energy density.    Nobody knows why it started or what happened before time=10^-43s (google Planck time, Max Planck, Heisenber, Uncertanity Principle).  Blame it on God if you like.
  
• After time=10^-43s space began expanding and carried everything else (matter and energy) along with it.  This is quite different than an explosion where a dense collection of matter and energy expands into pre-existing space.
  
• As time passes and space expands and everthing gets cooler.  At some point atoms are able to form and gravtationally attract each other and eventually form gallaxies, stars, planets, etc.  About 14 billions years later here we are with the present universe.
  
• The universe contains a finite amount of energy and matter.  It's ultimate  fate depends upon how much there is.  If there is more than a certain amount then the universe is said to be closed (spherical shaped) and will end in a "Big Crunch" as described by Stupot.   If there is less than a certain amount of matter and enegry then the universe is said to be open (saddle shaped) and will expannd for eternity.  If the amount of energy and matter is exactly a certain amount then the universe is said to be flat and I can't remember if the expansion continues indefinately or stops at some point.   Current measurements show that it is very close to being flat however there is recent evidence that the expansion is accelerating (google dark eneryg, dark matter).
  
• Stephen Hawking points out similarities between the Big Bang and black holes.  Being in our universe is in some ways like being in a black hole.   This leads others to speculate about      multiple universes, before/after our universe, etc..  Some even take this idea to the point of meta-physical and/or mystical nonsense.
  
• Relativity and Quantum Mechanics have almost nothing to say about what actually happens inside black holes or before 10^-43 seconds in the Big bang.  String Theory, fully developed, may provide some future insights into these topics.
  

Roswell
I used Occam's Razor to make the following conclusions:

• The incident happened just after WWII and at the beginning of the cold war between the Soviets and the US.  This was a time when there were massive amounts of top secret military research, espionage and counter-espionage.
  
• Top secret military research was being conducted at the nearby air base.  The something that crashed was the product of military research, not alien intelligence.   
  
• The US didn't want the Soviets to know what they were doing so they quickly picked up the debris, suppressed news stories, planted fake news stories, etc.  The public's imagination did the rest.
  
• During this time science fiction was in it's golden age.  Assimov, Heinlien, Phol, Ray Bradbury and many others were writting for radio programs magazines, etc.  Rockets were used quite successfully near the end of the war and so there were on everyone's mind. 
  

Now really, do you actually think that a spacecraft capable of greater than light speed would be constructed of the tin foil shown in the photo below?   And don't you think that such a craft would make a bigger kaboom if it crashed than what was reported in Roswell in 1947?     

[Stupot]

Good post.

But...

The  universe, that is all of time, space, matter, and energy began as a singularity.   This singularity is not a point in space because all of space and time is contained within that point.  There is no such thing as "outside" or "before".

I can't find the logic to get my head around this... that singular point had to 'be' somewhere, and the only way I can think to look at it is that it was suspended in space (which is infinite and eternal and always has been and always will be).  Space itself wasn't in that point, only everything else.  All the molecules of everything that is IN space were in that singular point, but space itself is not made of anything, it's just nothingness.

I'm not saying that your statement is false and mine is right, but I think if people start thinking of the universe as 'everything in space' instead of space being something that is in the universe, then it's a hell of a lot easier to comprehend (for me).

[Vince Twelve]

I'm not saying that your statement is false and mine is right, but I think if people start thinking of the universe as 'everything in space' instead of space being something that is in the universe, then it's a hell of a lot easier to comprehend (for me).

Unfortunately, according to people much smarter than you or I and who have spent far longer contemplating and studying it, this may be easier to comprehend, but it's also wrong.  That singularity wasn't floating in anything.  Before the big bang, there were no dimensions.  Thus, it wasn't floating in anything.  It just wasn't, and then it was.  And then it was bigger.  The universe isn't just matter that is spreading out.  It's matter and the absence of matter.  There was no matter or the absence of matter before the big bang.

Excellent post RickJ!

[Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens]

HUGE logical fallacy, Progz, your argument is even thinner. Do you have statistics on deathbed confessions?

Do you actually need statistics to logically assume that a vast number of people who are dying want to leave the world with a clear conscience?  I realize your fascination with specific data Eric but seriously, where's your proof that a majority of people would even bother to lie to people when they're about to die?  Would it even make sense vs. telling the truth?  Let's face it, a great majority of people who are alive are afraid of death for whatever reasons, and the approaching event tends to make people question their decisions in life and if they should leave it with anger/lies/hate/etc.  I'm not arguing that he couldn't have had alzheimers or something, but a top military official in possession of his faculties (if he was indeed) making such a statement isn't something I would derive a joke or lie from. 

At any rate you clearly have your opinion and I clearly have mine and neither will sway the other.  Such is the pointlessness of internet discussions.

[MrColossal]

I'm not saying he's lying. He could be deluded, confused, wrapped up in his own conspiracy theories for too long... And yes, I need some sort of statistics before I go assuming that dying people tell 100% unbiased truth, sorry? There are reasons to check up on things like this because it's very easy to fall into bad thinking.

also, reading up on him, his story changed around 2000, he decided he was more involved with the "incident" than he originally said and then he prepared a new story to be released upon his death.

Pointlessness of internet discussions, whatever... I ask a question and things go pointless all of the sudden. I'm personally quite interested in knowing if there is any data on deathbed confessions, it would help to come to a conclusion about this...

[RickJ]

I'm not arguing that he couldn't have had alzheimers or something, but a top military official in possession of his faculties (if he was indeed) making such a statement isn't something I would derive a joke or lie from.

There is also the possibility that he was asked by the military to pass on dis-information via a death bed statement.

[lo_res_man]

[quote

Big Bang

Thats no spaceship, thats my body!

Bender

[Afflict]

Are weather balloons made out of foil? 

Secondly why do most of  these sightings happen in Mexico?

Do you really think that the the army would be interested in a broken weather balloon? (Maybe they were trying to create a diversion or just spice up the media a bit, who knows)

[Stupot]

...according to people much smarter than you or I and who have spent far longer contemplating and studying it, this may be easier to comprehend, but it's also wrong.

These people are indeed smart most of the time but they also talk a lot of bollards.  These are the same people who invent new dimension everytime they have a new theory just to make the maths fit.

Before, there were three (four if you include time but I don't)... when they'd spent far too much time trying to get people to believe in string-theory but couldn't get the maths to work so they fabricated [I think it was] 6 or 7 new dimensions and said "they're there, they're just too complicated for the human brain to comprehend".

Bollocks!!!  They just moved the goalpost in a ball game most people don't know the rules to and pretended it was perfectly fine practice to do so.

I think they're up to about 22 dimensions now and I'm sure when the next big theory comes along that can't be explained using conventional maths they'll just widen the goalposts even further... Just don't expect to be allowed to see the rulebook.

[Rui 'Trovatore' Pires]

Stupot, that's what science is, pretty much. Accepting that nothing is true and established. Question everything. If they need to alter a few known and established laws, they'll do it - and see if everything still works. If it doesn't, they'll undo the alterations. If it does, we'll just move forward a bit. It's rather like the constitution, really. Depending on a number of factors, it can be ammended in order to remain the CONSTITUTION.

[Stupot]

Haha, the constitution's been amended so many times I'm not even sure any of the original words are left on it.

[Rui 'Trovatore' Pires]

Is that a bad thing?

(btw, I wasn't talking about the American constitution, I was talking about any given constitution.)

[LUniqueDan]

Are weather balloons made out of foil? 

What's so strange about it? Foil concentrated sun, and echoes radar easier while light and way more resistant than early rubber balloons.

Secondly why do most of  these sightings happen in Mexico?

Dunno - but remember that for secret experiences of national defense purpose frontiers has little effects - not to mention that we're talking of flying objects.

Do you really think that the the army would be interested in a broken weather balloon?

Man... it was the 40's... Weather and weather predictions were fundamentals for strategy. And by the way those balloons not olny gathered datas about weather but also about radars, testing comunications, and magnetic interference for communication : Sometimes all in the same time.
(All of those issues crucial for defense)
The 40's
Radars were relatively new, unefficients and almost unstudied.
No satellites.
Few computers for calculating weather raw datas.
Strategic defense relied on long-distance bombers not on missile yet.
Long distance traveling by plane was still an adventure due to many problems (including weather.)

It's an era were sending a weather station to north pole were managed by Ussr/Usa secret services due to the importances of the data gathered...



-

[Vince Twelve]

These people are indeed smart most of the time but they also talk a lot of bollards.  These are the same people who invent new dimension everytime they have a new theory just to make the maths fit.

Before, there were three (four if you include time but I don't)... when they'd spent far too much time trying to get people to believe in string-theory but couldn't get the maths to work so they fabricated [I think it was] 6 or 7 new dimensions and said "they're there, they're just too complicated for the human brain to comprehend".

You're right.  They did make up new dimensions to make the math fit, but you say that like it's a bad thing.

Using existing and proven theories and mathematical techniques, they analyzed our current understanding of our universe and dimensions and found that our current understanding was flawed, and they could prove the flaw with verifiable math.  They found out from that, that there were more dimensions than we were previously aware of, and adding those into the equation, our existing laws and theories all work out, proving the new model and making it a new theory.

What would be ridiculous would be saying, "Well, our way of thinking is wrong, and we can prove it, but it's so much easier to think this way than to have to figure out how things actually are."  Which is kind of what you're doing.

I think that you're under the impressing that if something is a theory, it's just someone's hunch.  A lot of people think that a law is something that has been proven and a theory is something that hasn't been proven.  This is completely wrong.  Laws are not "higher" than theories and a theory can never become a law, even if it can be proven to be 100% true.

A law is a readily observable fact.  Laws describe the things in our universe, but they don't explain them.

Theories take laws into account and attempt to explain the things in our universe and why they interact the way they interact.  Theories, to become scientifically accepted, have been tested and verified again and again.  In a way, theories are stronger than laws.

So don't scoff at something just because of the non-scientific definition of the word theory.  A scientific theory is very proven, and very sound, and very reliable.

Unlike religion, or apparently... you..., if new evidence is discovered (such as that suggesting that there are more dimensions beyond the 3rd or 4th), scientists can reevaluate the things that they previously thought were true and accommodate the new information to create a more accurate view of the universe.  They don't just try to explain the new evidence away so it doesn't rock the currently-understood boat.

[Rui 'Trovatore' Pires]

How remarkably well put. But I still like the constitution metaphor better, because I don't know many of the long words you used, Vince.

[MrColossal]

Are weather balloons made out of foil? 

Do you really think that the the army would be interested in a broken weather balloon? (Maybe they were trying to create a diversion or just spice up the media a bit, who knows)

afflict if you seriously want to know the answers to those questions, watch this:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2334857802602777622

[evenwolf]

I second that link.  In fact I will repost it.    I've been talking about this video for the past five days.   


http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2334857802602777622

[RickJ]

Well put Vince Twelve.  Let me add to what you said..

Before, there were three (four if you include time but I don't)...

This is also just plain wrong.  Time is a dimension.  If you want to meet with some one you must specify 3 spatial coordinates and a time coordinate.  Just no other way aroud it.  The spatial dimensions (i.e. up/down, left,right, forward,backward) and the time dimension are all affected (i.e. shaped, warped, dilated, etc) by mass and velocity.

... when they'd spent far too much time trying to get people to believe in string-theory but couldn't get the maths to work so they fabricated [I think it was] 6 or 7 new dimensions and said "they're there, they're just too complicated for the human brain to comprehend".

This is also inaccurate.  The idea of more than four dimensions originated in the 1920's with Kaluza and Klein.  They started with the theory of general relativity in 5 dimensions, curled up on of the spacial dimensions in a very very small circle, and ended up with a 4-dimensional theory of relativity plus electromagnetism.   They didn't just throw in an extra dimension to make the math work, rather they were attempting to formulate a relativistic explanation of magnetism.   The extra dimension allows the electron and it's electric field, to move around to create a magnetic field. 

In string theory extra dimensions were not added to make the math work out.  Rather string theory predicts and/or provides a means of calculating the number of dimensions in our universe from first principals.  It's explained much better in Wikipedia ...

Number of dimensions in string theory

One intriguing feature of string theory is that it predicts the possible number of dimensions in the universe, in the sense that it is consistent only in a certain number of dimensions. Nothing in Maxwell's theory of electromagnetism or Einstein's theory of relativity makes this kind of prediction; these theories require physicists to insert the number of dimensions "by hand". The first person to add a fifth dimension to Einstein's general relativity was German mathematician Theodor Kaluza in 1919. The reason for the unobservability of the fifth dimension (its compactness) was suggested by the Swedish physicist Oskar Klein in 1926 (see Kaluzaâ€"Klein theory).

One intriguing feature of string theory is that it predicts the possible number of dimensions in the universe, in the sense that it is consistent only in a certain number of dimensions. Nothing in Maxwell's theory of electromagnetism or Einstein's theory of relativity makes this kind of prediction; these theories require physicists to insert the number of dimensions "by hand". The first person to add a fifth dimension to Einstein's general relativity was German mathematician Theodor Kaluza in 1919. The reason for the unobservability of the fifth dimension (its compactness) was suggested by the Swedish physicist Oskar Klein in 1926 (see Kaluzaâ€"Klein theory).

Unlike general relativity, string theory allows one to compute the number of spacetime dimensions from first principles.
...

Are weather balloons made out of foil?

The better ones are made of Mylar, the same kind of plastic used to make magnetic recording tape.   Apparently helium molecules, because of their small size, are able to through rubber more easily than mylar.  Mylar is also used (for the same reason) to make happy birthday balloons like this one ..


This company, Meteorological Products Inc. makes mylar weather balloons like this one.  Very UFOish isn't it?   

[evenwolf]

The weather balloons don't need to look anything like a flying saucer for the Roswell incident to have occurred.     The most suspect "conspiracy" motivating factor was the government's retraction of a flying disk.


No one saw a weather balloon and mistook it for a UFO.   The government said they recovered a flying "disk"  & later changed their story to a weather balloon.   It wasnt the siting that caught people's eye.   It was the coverup.    But eric's link uncovers every aspect of the Roswell misunderstanding.

[Afflict]

afflict if you seriously want to know the answers to those questions, watch this:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2334857802602777622

I was trying to watch that but my ISP was on the frits, It loaded till about the point where he spoke about sofar's.

Trying to reload as we speak.

Also @  LUniqueDan

Didn't say its weird or strange was merely asking.

Bottom line is a believe in life on other planets, yet I am open to listen to others people's opinions and debates.

[RickJ]

I was responding to the question "Are weather ballons made of tin foil?".   My intent was to point out that they are made from mylar and many have a shiny metalic finish similar to what is depicted in the photo of the Roswell crash debris.

Thanks Eric for the great link.   

[Afflict]

Agreed I was merely responding to LUniqueDan asking me why I think it's strange

I thought your posts were indeed insightful RickJ, also that is a very kewl link Eric.

Edit: The video was awesome, really interesting information.

[LUniqueDan]

RickJ

For the record, 'Mylar' get develloped in the mid-50's. But, you'r right, it can, and  are confounded with ETs.


In fact, the real Area 51 hoax, is that ppl believed of ET instead of Military reasearch facility! All the cover-up and so olny came from the fact that 'Area 51' were unofficials for years and, indeed, the Army bull***ited about it for years.

It sonds it works well...

[RickJ]

LUniqueDan: You are right, thanks for the correction. According to this Mylar was introduced in 1952.   

Dupont's polyester research lead to a whole range of trademarked products, one example is Mylar (1952), an extraordinarily strong polyester (PET) film that grew out of the development of Dacron in the early 1950s.

However, it is quite common for the military to have access to technology 5-10 years before the general public.  Although I don't have any idea what material the debris in the photo is actually made from it is not unreasonable to think that it is something similar to mylar.

Afflict:  Hehe, I was responding to Evenwolf. 

[MrColossal]

Well obviously fellas this means that the military got the mylar tech FROM the crashed spaceship!

[lo_res_man]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PET_film_(biaxially_oriented)
http://heritage.dupont.com/touchpoints/tp_1952/overview.shtml
Mylar was inventad in the early-mid 50's so that stuff from the 'crash' COULDN'T have been mylar,
And the stuff in the photo doesn't look to me like tinfoil, it looks more like mylar, but it hadn't been inventad yet
By the way this is an often related topic, do any of you think the moon landings were fake? If so I would like to have a rolliking time debating THAT!

[Stupot]

By the way this is an often related topic, do any of you think the moon landings were fake? If so I would like to have a rolliking time debating THAT!

Haha, go back to the first couple of pages of this thread.  I tried to bring that theory up and got flamed for it.   Truth is, they probably weren't faked.  Millions of people watched it live on TV and you would've thought somebody somewhere would've picked up a genuine continuity error by now.

However, it's nice to think that the world was duped.  The perfect hoax.  And if and when it is revealed that there were no moon landings, I wanna be one of the few people who can say "I knew it!!!"... So until that day my arse will be collecting splinters.

[Nacho]

I encourage people to investigate how Roswell became popular, not if the bright material was mylar or fryed potato.

Roswell was not famous till 1980, when Charles Berlitz and William Moore published "The incident", about "facts" happened in 1947.

Did people in 1947 think that "The incident" was actually an UFO crash? No. Even Raymond A. Palmer, a science fiction editor which moved to "believer" founding the magazine "Fate" did not believe in it. And let' s remember that he was in a disesperate raid of good paranormal stories since his magazine was not going too well (He was also editor of "Amazing stories", but some of his writers moved (I.E. Asimov) seeing the sensationalist change of direction that his magazines were taking.

The news about the incident were published in an enviroment of high histeria. Soon before, Kenneth Arnold, an amateur pilot said he saw "nine boomerang shaped objects, flying like saucers thrown to a lake, flying over Idaho" He was convinced (in that time) they were some kind of secret reactor (And secret crafts which an suspectous simillarity with Arnold' s paintings and decriptions were prooved to be flying during that period), but an enthusiastic reporter (Bill Basquette) made a mistake and depicted the objects as "Flying saucers". Result: In the following weeks more that 200 "flying saucers" were seen over the US... When Arnold' s suspectuous objects had boomeran shape. A clear case of histeria.

That s why in a first moment, another enthusiastic reporter said that the alluminium paper he saw in New Mexico was a flying saucer. The US Army soon explained that they were pieces of a meteorological baloon of the project balloon, and nobody believed the Alien aspect of the ncident since 1980' s book (From the same author of "The Bermuda triangle").

I think it' s a quite clear case of "re-fryed" mistery to fool the believers. Of course there is a conspiration here, but it' s not driven by the Government, but by that smart ass Berlitz.

[LUniqueDan]

@ Nacho : Berlitz : I had almost forget him, I didn't know he was behind the Roswell hoax too,
not so surprising : Mr Bermuda Triangle... Mr Atlantis and other... But there was speculation about Roswell earlyer, but I don't know what was the object. Maybe just the fact that Roswell was an unregistered facility...

Maybe out of subject, but someone has heard of the rumors that Reagan have asked Gorbachev for a possible USA/USSR union in case of a massive earth invasion? I read it in a 2 square inch 'place holder' article on a mid-90 newspaper.

[Stupot]

That's not such a bad idea.  I mean aliens won't reach Earth before we're extinct anyway, but how naive would we look on the off chance that they did come and we weren't ready. Saying that I think they'd be more likely to come in peace.  Although we would probably have started trying to blow them out of the sky before they've even had a chance to say hello.  Poor bastards.

[Nacho]

Yes, the "Roswell incident" happened before the book, and it has some kind of echo in the local media, that' s undeniable... But very very small, it passed quick (apparently the "fever" lasted less than 2 days) and if now it' s famous, it' s just because it had the "fortune" to be choosen by a recognised hoaxer. It was not the most strange or spectacular case (Typing that IMO there were more spectacular cases doesn' t imply that I believe that we have been visited by Alien spacecrafts, eh?)

It' s funny that you mention the Atlantis, because for me, it' s also a mistery how, from the thousands of myths that could have been used to create a "legend", this one survived over the rest. Like Roswell...  

PS before posting: I think I should explain a bit of Atlantis before "launching" the idea it' s a big hoax. Well... Atlantis was a short dialogue on just 9 pages by Plato. I think many knew the author, but I am not sure if everybody knows of how short and how lack of importance the dialogue had in comparision with the rest of the work of the Greek genious...

[lo_res_man]

Atlantis was just probably a krackitoa type disaster that may have happened on some island in the Mediterranean. Impressive, but it boggles my mind how we just go on and on about all these myths about it. If you want to look at a culture that appears to pop out of nowhere with technology higher in some ways then the romans,then look at the Hindus valley civilisation, now they are cool

[Redwall]

hindus valley civilization

Haha, awesome misspelling.

[lo_res_man]

*takes a bow*

[Nacho]

Atlantis was just probably a krackitoa type disaster that may have happened on some island in the Mediterranean.

Which are your evidences? Plato says it was in the Atlantic, sunk 9,000 years ago and was higher than the North of Africa. Plato was very specific about the size, the location, the shape....

If you start to cross words on Plato' s decription in this way: "Ok... we will move the continent to this Sea, remove the elephants and the bulls... Change the red colour of the bricks that Plato depicts into marble stones... Change the channels and the inner circles into "a cicle shaped island", and then move it 6,000 years forward, and change "sinking" into "volcano eruption"and blah, blah, blah", then, you' ll probably reach to the conclussion that Atlantis was Santorini, Sicily or Crete, or something like that.

That theory might amuse you and make you look like a smart ass in front of a group of uninformed fellas, but... the theory is still stupid.

If we do that (change man into "woman" change "french" to "Egyptian", change "XVIII Century" to "I Century B.C.") we might also reach to the conclussion that Napoleon was actually Cleopatra. Does that look scientific of historically accurated to you? Please, be informed a bit beofre typic no senses.

[lo_res_man]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krakatoahttp://volcano.und.edu/vwdocs/frequent_questions/grp7/asia/question879.htmlI'm not saying whatever Atlantis had wasn't a great civilisation. it most likely was. Its when you get into the space travel and magic and alien astronauts it gets weird

[Stupot]

I thought Atlantis was a Canadian singer/songwriter with a penchant for all things ironic.

[Nacho]

Lo_res_man, I know what Krakatoa was... I was asking for evidences that Atlantis was a  mediterranian civilization destroyed by a volcano.

[lo_res_man]

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2006/08/060823-thera-volcano.html
This is conjecture but it damn well seems like it could fit, heck even FoA thought it was Thera

[Nacho]

So, your sources to tell that Atlantis existed (let' s remember, a Continent that sunk in the middle of the Atlantic, with the size of north of Africa, with channels and successive rings, with high buildings constructed with red bricks by a 9000 years old civilization, with Elephants and bulls) are a National Geographic article saying "Atlantis" (notice the " ") and a videogame?

Amazing...

There are some problems... Santorini eruption was 3,600 ago. The Atlantida SUNK 9,000 years ago. Santorini, if I am not mistaken, is a tad smaller than the north of Africa. Santorini never had elephants, or buildings made with red bricks. The only coincidence is that it exploted near in space and time with Plato's birthplace. Is that an "evidence" for you? You will be a great scientist or historian... 

Google Plato's  dialogues (Timeaus and Chritias) and read them carefully. When you do that, come back to go on with a serious debate (if you still believe in that crap)

[lo_res_man]

All I am saying is there is that there must be a rational explanation for the Atlantis myths, not the magic and aliens that seem to be favored by some.  Admittedly thera may not be the right volcano, what I am saying is that is a much more likely cause then pissed off gods. As well Can you not allow for exaggeration on or tie-source distortion. Most don't expect the bible to be hundred percent accurate historical source, yet its events are claimed to have happened quite a bit later, plus we have many more extent copies, why should Plato be treated any differently?

[Redwall]

All I am saying is there is that there must be a rational explanation for the Atlantis myths

Like that it was made-up?

Most don't expect the bible to be hundred percent accurate historical source

Yeah, some of us think a lot of it was made-up.

[lo_res_man]

Okay, But people thought King Minos was a myth tell they found the Minoan Civilisation on Crete, the PREASANT absence of evidence does not conclusively prove  evidence of absence . We can't know everything. 

[Redwall]

First of all, if you're going to cite a legend that turned out to be a reality despite lots of people saying it was just made-up. . . Troy would probably be a better choice.

Second, no, absence of proof is not proof of absence. But it's not proof of existence, either, and when there's nothing either way I prefer to think that there is not an invisible pink unicorn standing next to me. (Occam's Razor. Heard of it?)

[lo_res_man]

I agree with that, I'm just saying we should keep looking, who knows? That's basically what I am saying, "Who, Knows?" Okay yes, Troy is an excellent example, Thank-you for bringing it up. I am not saying its real, I am just saying we should still search. That's all.

[nick.keane]

Honestly, I think the sky above you is a hologram created by the government to cover two things:
1) The moon has been destroyed.
2) The Earth is surrounded by innumerable alien battlecruisers who don't know that we exist, and if we were to be revealed, even for a fraction of a second, we would be instantaneously vaporized by hundreds of thousands of laser beams and explosives.

Please, everyone, just trust the government like you trust my avatar.

[space boy]

Conspiracy theories are really funny. Tons of them out there, not a single one supported by evidence. All they have is out of this world claims and phrases like "open your eyes!!! you are a tool of the government!!!". Ever been on a conspiracy theory site? They like to put their key phrases in huge colorful letters, like they wanna get sure your brainwashed mind won't miss the truth. Anybody who's reasonably intelligent will notice that those sites are just collections of fallacies. People who go along with those theories are out of touch with reality.

Which reminds me, recently someone on this forum claimed the US government was responsible for the 9/11 attacks. I asked for evidence but havent gotten any. The government must be preventing him from showing the truth. <.<

[radiowaves]

Atlantis was only mentioned once and that was by Platos father... So it might aswell not exist, or it could be a metaphor.

Space boy, if you take up some books, you would see that actually there is some hard evidence. those amateur websites run by youngsters are bullshit.

[space boy]

Space boy, if you take up some books, you would see that actually there is some hard evidence. those amateur websites run by youngsters are bullshit.

Could you tell me which books i should look for?

[vict0r]

Obviously not! The goverment has stolen them :o

[Nacho]

Space boy, if you take up some books, you would see that actually there is some hard evidence. those amateur websites run by youngsters are bullshit.

Could you tell me which books is should look for?

Maybe "The great imposture", where says that the US government hijacked a plane, and then, in spite of crashing that very plane or crash an identical one to the Pentagon, makes it vanish (Where? maybe landing in area 51 and killing all the passangers) and launches a missile? 

It's so stupid that it needs no further comment... 

[LUniqueDan]

But people thought King Minos was a myth tell they found the Minoan Civilisation on Crete.

Troy was definitively a better example :King Minos is still a myth... we just discovered some ruins, with no writings, and called the civilisation with the name Homer give (Precisely cause we know nothing else.

@Radiowave : Like spaceboy, i'd like you to quote me one of those serious book you'r talking about. Like the exemple of C.Berlitz (earlier on this thread) : it's not because you wrote a 300 pages book on something (even a collection of books) that there is any argument about that.

(make me think of Daniken's elucubrations)

[Nacho]

I agree with that, I'm just saying we should keep looking, who knows? That's basically what I am saying, "Who, Knows?" Okay yes, Troy is an excellent example, Thank-you for bringing it up. I am not saying its real, I am just saying we should still search. That's all.

No, you are completelly wrong, Troy is not an "excellent" example. Troy war was mentioned in history more than the "9 pages", that the Atlantis was, by many authors, and not just by one telling a tale. Troy was not located in a lost continent. Troy was not supossed to be a tecnological civilization that existed  when the rest of the world was almost in the stone age.

For God's shake... Do you know the myth? Atlantis was, according to Plato, in front of "the Heracles columns", that is the Gibraltar straight, or the Spanish city of Cádiz. The main Island was bigger than "Asia and Libia" (Wich means the North of Africa and the known Asia in those days, the Middle West) It dissapeared swallow by the sea, but it is still in not very deep waters.

Where the hell is that "continent" now? You must know that contient does not dissapear in 9,000 years (if you know something about tectonic plates, I mean...)

"Who knows, we should go on searching"

So, if we find something that it' s not were Plato said, did not dissapeared as Plato said (some thousand years after what Plato said) and it' s thousand times smaller than what Plato said... why should we believe it was what Plato said???

Of course... if you start searching stones, you might find one worked by men hand 9,000 years ago... But that is not Atlantis. Every brick of that period found is told to be "Atlant", what a stupidity... Even if the brick is found in India, it doesn't matter... soon will come a jerk telling it was an "Atlant" evidence.

"We should go on searching"

Yes... probably in 9,000 years someone might start searching 9,000 years old houses in Kansas... and he could even find evidences that a girl called "Dorothy" lived there. Does that mean that the Wizard of Oz existed? No.

[Tuomas]

Ehhh, ok, this is what army does to one. What the hell. Whenever I have time to read these is when I'm drunk (75% of time) so ehhh.

Anyway. I love UFOs, I just had sex with one. Last night with two of them.

[Stupot]

Anyway. I love UFOs, I just had sex with one. Last night with two of them.

Were they Ugly Fucking Ogres?

[lo_res_man]

Understandably Fickle Opossums?

[Tuomas]

nah, Utter Finger Orgasms

[arthur.com]

Unknown Flying Object!

The peopole who died in mysterious circumstances where there in the autopsy or saw the debris.
If it was fake why did they die in mysterious circumstances?

[MrColossal]

References please?

[space boy]

i found a video in youtube where a guy films a ufo thingie.
Looks realistic.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtKuBKIaVvs

[Stupot]

Oh come on now.  Everybody knows it was made by Ant and Dec.

[evenwolf]

History Channel had an excellent show about Roswell today.  The documentary represented the sound channel / project Mogul side of the story really well.    One guy said Mogul is a bad cover up story because the government wouldn't leave top secret balloons just floating around the desert for anyone to find.   

My response:
1.    Nobody would guess what the balloon was for.
2.    Balloons don't typically float near the ground, dumb ass.
3.    ITS A DESERT.

None of the UFO supporters had a decent argument:   "government coverup =   UFO."  So by that logic,  Monica Lewinsky had Bill Clinton's alien baby.

[Andail]

And Iraq didn't have weapons of mass destructions, they had weapons of mass alienation!

[radiowaves]

Space boy, if you take up some books, you would see that actually there is some hard evidence. those amateur websites run by youngsters are bullshit.

Could you tell me which books i should look for?

Try David Icke

And to find Atlantis, use some books from Rand Flem-Ath, Graham Hancock and Colin Wilson.


Anyway, back to topic:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5305085298884471236&q=ufo

And if you haven't got a free hour....
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4468185100897567649

[TerranRich]

Sorry if this is old news, but Stupot...do you honestly believe the moon landings were faked, or were you joking? I couldn't tell.

Why would anybody think they were faked? Because the flag was waving? Because there were no stairs visible? Easily explained.

[Stupot]

Read the whole thread, mate.

[m0ds]

Old thread I know but I am thrilled to have seen another one tonight I'd always thought I'd see any kind of UFO whilst out in the random wilderness but now twice I've seen them above me freaking house!!! AWESOME! As always I popped out for a cigarette and looked up, to see a star "circling", just kept going round in circles. To imagine its distance it looked like it was travelling round a 2p coin or something. Anyway it slowed down almost instantly and started moving back, then forth, then back again, then forth; and continued to do this for a long long time! I even showed my mum who also saw it moving. Accelerating forward, stopping, accelerating backward, stopping, fairly quickly. ODD!!!! I watched for 20 minutes until clouds covered it up. But 30 minutes later on my way to work (I was keeping an eye on the sky!!) I saw it once more, same motion, forward & back, only it looked a bit higher - but my view could've been obscured by the clouds. Since then it's been raining and cloudy. I also thought I saw more than one too, but that may just be me going mad

SO anyway. Yeah. Why the hell do I keep seeing UFO's?! This one definitely seemed more alien in motion than the one I saw a couple of years back. So I'm guessing its an expensive marketting ploy for Aliens vs Predator reqium. Anyway, peace! etc x

[Stupot]

There's always a scientific explanation.

What you saw was obviously a fly with a peice of tin foil strapped to its back.  When the sky clouded over, the foil stopped reflecting the moonlight.

See, I'm good I am.

[Nacho]

As always I popped out for a cigarette and looked up, to see a star "circling", just kept going round in circles.

What did the cigarette have in?

[Dualnames]

Don;t wanna know.

[OneDollar]

I thought this was interesting:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=up5jmbSjWkw

Followed by the explanation:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLRbTtd8IKM

[monkey0506]

m0ds...I thought you were reformed! Back to your old habits no doubt. This is clearly why you keep seeing UFOs. And it would also explain why you're dragging up threads from last year.

Oh and by the way, I think that most of the Engrish speaking users here are familiar with the fact that "circling" does in fact mean "going round in circles".

P.S. You're welcome Strong Bad fans.

[m0ds]

I did not have my crackpipe! And what the hell is with all those hidden links?? You're more weird than an ALIEN!!!!! :p

Anyway, looks like Raggit's been seeing things too Anyway I know what I saw wasn't a trick of the eye. I sat and watched it for 20 minutes and showed my mum too. But yes, perhaps it was just a clever fly