Adventure Game Studio

Ok, so after the previous thread was *ahem* accidentally deleted *ahem*, it's time for a new one.

So, here is the current mockup site:
http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/newsite/Home.aspx
http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/newsite/AGS.aspx
http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/newsite/AGS.aspx/Forums
http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/newsite/News.aspx

Current discussion was mainly about the top banner image and proposals for replacement images.

Current status:
* Need replacement "Help and Support" graphic for the right-hand column on hte About page
* Need replacement "On the forums" image for the right-hand column of the main page, to replace the cogs with something more forum-related
* Need to decide what to put in the right hand pane on the News page

LO-VE-LY! Really, I totally like that design. Fresh, blue, a stylish logo, funny little heads... And it looks pretty clean, easy to see what is where... When can we have that?

The main site is in my opinion near perfect now, though it seems we'll be discussing the banner for a while longer. The layout of the "About AGS" page is also very nice and functional. Just a few suggestions:

I think the "Screenshots and Features" section could have a bulleted main features list with the screenshots running down the right hand side of it. It seems a bit pointless to link to a "full feature list" (which requires javascript to be activated) without also having a short list for those who just want an overview and may not be familiar with all the technical terms and file formats.

I don't really like the link to the "Modules and Plugins forum" being hidden under "Older versions and other downloads" - it doesn't seem like a place I would click after having downloaded the most recent version of AGS. Wouldn't it make more sense to put them under "Resources"?

Quote
In my opinion, the banner is much too busy and attention grabbing and the colors way too dark and saturated compared to the rest of the page. Conceptually I like it, though like Snarky I find the pixel art connotations too limiting and not representative of AGS' versatility. I think a more traditional font along with fewer but bigger characters - some of them pixellated, some hi-res - would make for a cleaner and more attractive banner. I also find that the shadows don't actually come across as shadows but rather as a dashed line.

I agree with much of this except for the colors; I liked the darker color as it made it easier to read on my monitor.  

What if the text was in a larger font so that there would be enough area for shading etc.  Perhaps the fill color could be pixelated a bit something like one of Darth's backgrounds.   I think a "reflectional off a floor" effect would be cool also.  

I like the new cup but would make it larger and perhaps put it on the right?

I agree that it seems a bit too busy at the moment.   Perhaps this could be cured by a combination of larger fond and fewer character sprites.

All said, I think Progz's new banner is a step in the right direction.  

Here are some combos with Darth's logo, my larry/cup and Prog's characters:

(http://marcus.krupa.se/AGS/ags_logo_b001a.jpg)



-



(http://marcus.krupa.se/AGS/ags_logo_b001b.jpg)


-


(http://marcus.krupa.se/AGS/ags_logo_b001c.jpg)

--

Sorry about the size, but I felt it was important to see everything properly in context.

Well I thought I'd mess around with the logo a bit because all that glowing was making me a bit sea sick.


(http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/agswebsite2.png)
(http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/agswebsite2.png)
Click picturebox to enbiggen

Am I the only person who thinks pixel art looks a bit crap in hi-res? Don't get me wrong - pixel art in itself can be absolutely beautiful, and I'm astonished with the works of the pixel artists on these forums. It's just that these sprites are so tiny that I have to squint to even make out the colors in most of them - only Larry Vales really pops out, the others might as well be silhouettes when viewed in 1600x1050 resolution. Plus you get that really unflattering aliasing against the white background, the bluecup being a prime offender.

I definitely think pixel art should somehow be represented in the artwork (but not exclusively, I'd like to see some nice characters from hi-res games too), but in my opinion they should appear as they do in-game - using 2x nearest neighbour resizing. What good is a bunch of mascots that a newcomer will have no relationship to, if they don't even give a true impression of the varying visual styles of AGS games?

hahaha!!! Lionel is one thing, if Mr T was the other - I'd cum!

/enters the forums after years to critique the new web layout.

I like the pixel characters on the layout, however I only think it works with the few sprites scattered around to compliment the minimalist look, too many looks like clutter.

/vanishes again.

OMFG

SSH has infiltrated the front page

Shoot me now

Quote from: Mods on Sat 28/03/2009 01:33:45
OMFG

SSH has infiltrated the front page

Shoot me now

lol I saw that too

And you ya f****r live about 10 miles from me and we've never had a pint.

That's as bad as SSH's ugly mug on the front page.

:P

I think the problem with your pixelized version is that you've given it too low a resolution.  I might go for a low resolution header, but only if it wasn't too hard on the eyes (i.e. pixels shouldn't be as big as you made them in the pixelized header).

I'm all for a hi-res banner, though.  If you're familiar with the banner at http://sourceforge.net/ , I think it could be similar (gradientwise) to this and shaded using the same blue that you see in the AGS splash screen.  The little people are a great idea, too, but a bit larger.

Please, do not use the pixel characters. As GarageGothic said they doesn't fit in the hi-res style of the website and they steal focus from the main window.
Though they are awesome and might spice things up, they mostly hurt the design more then they improve it.

They might work if you make them "one" with the white, like the "pixels" at the bottom of the blue, this would make them stand out less and not take over the design.

I'm not sure how directing your focus to a logo is a bad thing when the logo is Adventure Game Studio for the website Adventure Game Studio, but I do think my uncut logo would work with a different selection of colors for the rest of the site, namely with a mild blue instead of white.  I don't think that cutting and pasting my sprites around at random looks very good, and especially not on a photoshop-filtered font, so I agree on that point.

Also:

QuoteIn my opinion, the banner is much too busy and attention grabbing and the colors way too dark and saturated compared to the rest of the page.

This is rather funny since 98% of the colors I used were taken verbatim from the current (most popular) draft of the site, so if the colors I used are too dark and saturated then they are too dark and saturated 'compared to' an identical set of dark and saturated colors.  Pretty weird!


Also, by popular Grundislavian request, Ben Jordan now has proper red hair and is less manly!
(http://i485.photobucket.com/albums/rr218/ProgZmax/logoconcept1d-1.gif)

ProgZ: In case you didn't see it, I also commented on your logo in the now locked thread (http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/yabb/index.php?topic=37296.msg490020#msg490020) where you posted the updated version.

Directing the focus to the logo is not a problem per se, the problem is that my eyes keep drifting to it even when reading the text.  I don't really see how the colors on the rest of the site can be the problem, when you created the logo to substitute one in the already decided upon design - I mean, you even used a white background when posting the logo. Perhaps it could fit if the tonal range was more similar to the SSH and CJ icons in the sidebar, but to be honest I don't think any minor adjustment can resolve the stylistic clash between your detailed artwork and the subtle simplicity of the design.

Edit: Dammit, you edited your post while I was writing :). If the colors are exactly the same, then I guess it's the volume of the logo that makes it appear darker, just like the bold font further down the page seems darker than the normal text. Anyhow, I voiced my opinion on the matter - to me it just seems out of place.

I initially designed it on white to show that the characters could be more or less 'readable' on it, but it's certainly not my ideal choice and I've been against using white for the backdrop from the beginning (as have several other members).  A softer blue, even something like my most recent version reads better I think and is less stressful on my eyes.  As far as distracting you, I tried pasting the logo onto the completed version and I didn't feel distracted by it.  To me it's just something cute and a bit fun that shows people we're not just some boring community like all those other boring communities, which is why I made the logo in the first place.  I think the current design is just too stale and unimaginative overall for such a creative tool and such a vibrant community of game lovers and game designers.  That said, I'm not condemning Loominous' or Darth's contributions since I think they've been struggling in their own ways to come to some sort of agreement with the members at large and have had to compromise a lot of their own creative ideas in the process, which I think is unfortunate because I really liked Loominous' early design and Darth's 'blockland' type logo. 

I really, honestly think the design should reflect the creativity and imagination of this forum and the product we use rather than generic photoshop filters and glowy halo effects, but if this current design cannot be modified to be more visually fun and interesting then so be it.

Jesus Christ, I never said it couldn't be creative and fun. In fact I suggested in the other thread that there should be an even greater variety of characters (not more of them, just different styles) and proposed to make them bigger to actually show what AGS game characters look like. I'm sorry if I offended your delicate pixel pushing sensibilities, but criticizing something and making suggestions for change isn't a personal attack on you. Don't use rhetoric to make it sound like I'm advocating photoshop filters or don't think the current design can be improved.

I know you put a lot of work into this, and it's a wonderful piece of art. I simply don't think it works with the established style nor represents the full scope of AGS. No need to get all defensive about it.

I'm not being defensive, just stating my position and opinion on the overall appearance of the design in clear terms.  If anything, the whole 'jesus christ'/accusatory tone of your reply seems rather defensive and unnecessary.  Nothing I said in the previous post was there to indicate that you personally are uncreative or somehow lacking vision, it was a lament at the rather bland design that's being pushed forward right now. 

I think you should back away from the monitor a few paces and re-read my post without the mindset that it was directed entirely at you, since this is a community effort.

Edit:  And if you still have an issue, the best place to deal with it would be to private message me rather than continue it here.

A crude anti aliased version of the pre-ProgZ sprites version (lost in the old thread) (http://marcus.krupa.se/AGS/ags_logo_a001b.jpg), with sprites simply nicked from screenshots, and Vales from the forum smiley):

(http://marcus.krupa.se/AGS/ags_logo_b002.jpg)

-

Prog:

I think you should try a new version, as people obviously liked the idea but the execution wasn't perceived as fitting the current layout.

Edit: Or perhaps have a go at a separate side collage, like in the version above, where the characters are interacting, instead of just stiffly standing there.

ProgZ, I have no issue with you. I understood your post as a response to me, since you wrote right after I posted and started out addressing issues that I had brought up. If I misread, I apologize. I also intepreted your seeming resignation to mean that you saw our comments purely as criticism rather than encouraging suggestions for improvements. I sincerely do hope that you will continue working on the logo.

loominous, the antialiasing even if crude seems to work quite well, and with the larger size characters you still get the feel for lo- and hi-res differences. The main problem I saw in ProgZ logo - apart from the tiny size which didn't really suit my myopic eyes - was that the characters could easily have been from the same game. If, instead of redrawing the characters entirely, it would be possible to keep their individual styles and yet make it a bit more dynamic that just standing around facing the same direction, I think we're heading towards something quite excellent. Positioning them in the right hand corner also nicely balances the huge screenshots in the left column and keeps the logo area itself from being too busy.

Quote from: GarageGothic on Sat 28/03/2009 12:25:14
If, instead of redrawing the characters entirely, it would be possible to keep their individual styles and yet make it a bit more dynamic that just standing around facing the same direction

I suppose it could be done by either manual edits (as I suggested Prog would take a crack at, as it seems right up his alley) or by finding/taking screenshots from these (or other games) where the characters are interacting, like talking, pushing, picking something up, or whathaveyou, to remove the stiffness.

This is one of those areas where people who consider themselves without any artistic skills could make a nice contribution, either by just finding screenshots or also compiling them into a neat montage.

I have to agree that all the posted header images with characters in them do tend to distract too much from the content of the page. I like your latest anti-aliased version, loom, but again the characters stand out too much I think. Perhaps we could try de-saturating the colours of the characters to make them seem more part of the background?

Quote from: Pumaman on Sat 28/03/2009 14:58:27
but again the characters stand out too much I think. Perhaps we could try de-saturating the colours of the characters to make them seem more part of the background?

Perhaps something like this to detract some attention:

(http://marcus.krupa.se/AGS/ags_logo_b004.jpg)

I actually made Larry more saturated, as I liked the colour contrast it created, but that could be muted if it's too attention grabbing.

Edit: Upon looking at it with fresh eyes, the characters looked really washed out, so here's another version with a less bland effect, but where I crunched up the contrast of the logo instead, to retake some of the attention:

(http://marcus.krupa.se/AGS/ags_logo_b004b.jpg)

(http://i44.tinypic.com/2hppo3d.jpg)
could someone tell me which game this is from please?

I like that last one you just did loominous, its going in the right direction I think..
If ProgZ would just do something similar also including the same type of cool interactions he also done I think it will be good. Though Chris also makes a good point of maybe making them blend more with the background... or? :).

Quote from: J-MAN on Sat 28/03/2009 20:24:45
could someone tell me which game this is from please?

My guess its an unreleased game by loominous, but I could be wrong :).

Thanks peder, has he got any other games released yet?

While on the subject, I assume one of the middle or right-hand screenshots is going to be swapped out for another game? Its a great example of a good looking hi-res game, but it does look a bit like there are so few quality games we had to use the same one twice...

The question is whether it should be three different games or a single one. I think it would be nice to show the progress from background (perhaps with a walkbehind being edited), a character, and finally the whole thing put together. It would clearly demonstrate the principles of AGS rather than just flashing some pretty screenshots.

1$, I think the idea was to have several screenshots appear, by using flash was one idea..

Don't know if this has been suggested, but how about this (just a sketch):
(http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/7727/slideq.png)
So we have a list of games and one can scroll through them by clicking on the left or right button. Even better - without buttons. You can just move your mouse cursor to the left/right side of the flash animation an it'll automatically scroll to the left/right by showing other games.

I picked those screens mainly because:

I) They represent pixel art and hi-res art.

II) They have strong warm colours that compensate for all the cool blues.

III) They're both nice looking (the right one is from Ignac II)


My initial idea was to have them show the progress of a game, as GarageGothic suggested, but then I was faced with the problems:

I) Should it be pixel or hi-res? I'd have to pick one, and if I picked pixel, it would misrepresent the capacity of the engine, or if I picked hi-res, it wouldn't be as welcoming to pixel-art/nostalgic visitors.

II) As the images (especially in the first version they were featured) took up so much space, there would be an issue of unexciting repetition of the same image/colours.


So that was the reasoning.

I understand your reasoning, and I still think it can work to show a sense of progress. But if they have to represent both lo- and hi-res art, I definitely think the middle one should be changed to a third game. Also, the left screenshot clearly has characters and GUI visible even if what we're seeing it in the room editor. This ought to be a plain background not to look obviously photoshopped.

The leftmost reflection doesn't match the graphic above it... :o

I personally feel as if the reflections should be removed, they look very tacky (as does the glowing around the lettering).

Love the characters all over the words, fun looking style :)

Characters lined up above the SSH box... not very suiting now is it? Just a kind of cop-out :/

I'm on the don't like the characters around the logo wagon. Either a screenshot banner type deal (or something alike) or leave it be is what I'll stay with. It might be a bit dull but atleast it's not distracting.

Quote from: Pumaman on Fri 27/03/2009 22:37:25
* Need to decide what to put in the right hand pane on the News page

A list of news dates and possibly headlines for easy jumping down to the one you're looking for? Or possible jsut the last something or other number.

Headlines of older news (along with dates) would make sense so you didn't have to keep flipping through archive pages. Since the current news probably would only take up  4 or 5 lines at the top, they might as well be included too for easy jumping.

Edit: I was taking a look around the other pages, and on the AGS page, it would be awesome if there was a "See changelist" link right below the version number. Also, I think the recent forum posts box would look better if "Posted by..." and "X minutes ago" was on the same line so there would be less white space between the headers. A small thing I noted was also that on the AGS and Forums pages the main text box is offset a few pixels vertically from the top sidebar box, I think this should be fixed - either by aligning them, or perhaps even by increasing the offset, creating a bit of dynamic.

I like the little characters climbing over the logo. It's cute.

Just my two cents.

hi
please put "current version" on main page

Awww, come on, ditch the characters? It's the sole cute-and-fun feature of the current page! Don't you people remember what this page is for?

I've been thinking, how difficult would it be to implement an 'If you liked this game, you'll also like...', or just a 'similar games' reference in the new games page? I think that it would help people find games that are of interest to them that they may not find through a word-based search.

Basically, my thought is to group games with a similar theme - medieval comedy with medieval comedy, sci-fi suspense with sci-fi suspense, etc. For example, someone who's played them both may draw a parallel to The Vacuum and 7 Days a Skeptic, since they're both sci-fi suspense thriller type games, but unless I knew about both, it'd be hard to know that one is similar to the other. It could help some less well-known games get a little more recognition.

I know that we already have games sortable by genre, but oftentimes people search for specific titles, and some cross-promotion could certainly help, I think. If not specific games, even a button to 'Find more Sci-Fi Horror titles', for example, may be handy. Does anyone agree with me that this might be a useful feature?

Another neat feature would be to make the characters dynamic  :=

So forum members could upload a character to a pool and the webserver creates a new banner on a per day base (or shorter if traffic and cpu-power allow it)

Maybe somekind of approval board would also be necessary, so we won't see tons of viagra pills on the banner ;)

Quote
Ops!
How the hell did this happen?

This page doesn't exist. If you just clicked a link on the official AGS-site, please post on the Forums to notify us about the broken link.

It is suposed to happen?  ??? i just clicked this links

AGS Engine Plugin API

AGS Editor Plugin API

Jp

Quote from: SpacePirateCaine on Wed 01/04/2009 13:23:49
I've been thinking, how difficult would it be to implement an 'If you liked this game, you'll also like...', or just a 'similar games' reference in the new games page? I think that it would help people find games that are of interest to them that they may not find through a word-based search.

Basically, my thought is to group games with a similar theme - medieval comedy with medieval comedy, sci-fi suspense with sci-fi suspense, etc. For example, someone who's played them both may draw a parallel to The Vacuum and 7 Days a Skeptic, since they're both sci-fi suspense thriller type games, but unless I knew about both, it'd be hard to know that one is similar to the other. It could help some less well-known games get a little more recognition.

I know that we already have games sortable by genre, but oftentimes people search for specific titles, and some cross-promotion could certainly help, I think. If not specific games, even a button to 'Find more Sci-Fi Horror titles', for example, may be handy. Does anyone agree with me that this might be a useful feature?

I love it!  To implement this, each forum member could maintain a checkbox-style list on their profile of their favorite games, which in turn would be analyzed by a feature similar to Amazon/eBay.  For each game profile, it would come up with a list of about ten or so games that appear most frequently in favorite game lists containing that title.

Some real legends miss from the character sprites but well..

I realise I don't post much here any more but seeings as webdesign is my forte (http://www.purpleinternet.co.uk) just thought I should offer some opinions.

I do like how it feels much more like the homepage for a piece of software (the current one feels a bit too much like a forum for me) and is very simple and to the point, but the overal aesthetic needs a little work, mainly the glows, the colours and the type as they have a bit of a tacky and dated feel.

Sorry, I hope I'm not sounding too harsh!  It's definately headed in the right direction, but might need a bit of a paint job before I could definately say it's an improvement over what we have now.

Regarding the News page:

I think the right-hand column could be entitled "Industry News" and perhaps contain a small list of links to various RSS feeds from news sites such as AdventureGamers or GameBoomers.  Maybe even link up to the RSS feeds of developer's sites such as Wadjet Eye.

I'll just mention, in the <title> tags for the 'News' section it still says 'Forum'.

QuoteEdit: Upon looking at it with fresh eyes, the characters looked really washed out, so here's another version with a less bland effect, but where I crunched up the contrast of the logo instead, to retake some of the attention:

Thanks for trying this out. I'm really not sure about this -- the characters do look good like that, but I'm not sure if it draws too much attention to the right hand pane instead of the main page area that people should be looking at?

QuoteSo we have a list of games and one can scroll through them by clicking on the left or right button. Even better - without buttons. You can just move your mouse cursor to the left/right side of the flash animation an it'll automatically scroll to the left/right by showing other games.

That's certainly a possibility, but I think that would be better saved for the Games page. The first two of those screenshots are of the editor, and cycling round screenshots of different games being edited is probably not worth the hassle.

QuoteI understand your reasoning, and I still think it can work to show a sense of progress. But if they have to represent both lo- and hi-res art, I definitely think the middle one should be changed to a third game. Also, the left screenshot clearly has characters and GUI visible even if what we're seeing it in the room editor. This ought to be a plain background not to look obviously photoshopped.

I'm not sure if it matters that much -- people aren't going to analyse those images in great detail, but rather it just needs to be enough to get them interested in finding out more.

QuoteThe leftmost reflection doesn't match the graphic above it

Hehe yes, maybe the reflections should just be removed.

Quoteon the AGS page, it would be awesome if there was a "See changelist" link right below the version number

Good idea, thanks ... I'll give that a go.

QuoteAlso, I think the recent forum posts box would look better if "Posted by..." and "X minutes ago" was on the same line so there would be less white space between the headers

This was how it was originally, but each entry didn't quite look "beefed up" enough. Maybe putting the name of the forum it was posted in (eg. "Technical Forum", "General Discussion") might pad this out?

QuoteA small thing I noted was also that on the AGS and Forums pages the main text box is offset a few pixels vertically from the top sidebar box

Heh well spotted, the left column is 1 pixel higher, I'll move it.

Quoteplease put "current version" on main page

Ok, I'll try and see where this could fit in.

QuoteI've been thinking, how difficult would it be to implement an 'If you liked this game, you'll also like...', or just a 'similar games' reference in the new games page? I think that it would help people find games that are of interest to them that they may not find through a word-based search.

Yeah, this has been suggested a few times. The main question is how we would populate this data -- it would take ages for someone to go through and manually link all the games up like this.

QuoteAnother neat feature would be to make the characters dynamic 

So forum members could upload a character to a pool and the webserver creates a new banner on a per day base (or shorter if traffic and cpu-power allow it)

Hehe, now that's taking Web 2.0 to the next level  :=

QuoteIt is suposed to happen?   i just clicked this links

Yes, the links that link back onto the original site don't work at the moment, they will work when the site goes live and the URL changes though.

QuoteI love it!  To implement this, each forum member could maintain a checkbox-style list on their profile of their favorite games, which in turn would be analyzed by a feature similar to Amazon/eBay.  For each game profile, it would come up with a list of about ten or so games that appear most frequently in favorite game lists containing that title.

Interesting idea, I wonder if that would work...

QuoteI do like how it feels much more like the homepage for a piece of software (the current one feels a bit too much like a forum for me) and is very simple and to the point, but the overal aesthetic needs a little work, mainly the glows, the colours and the type as they have a bit of a tacky and dated feel.

Well if you have any ideas on improvements and can post a mock-up, that would be great -- but otherwise I think we're basically agreed on the overall design and colour scheme now.

QuoteI think the right-hand column could be entitled "Industry News" and perhaps contain a small list of links to various RSS feeds from news sites such as AdventureGamers or GameBoomers.  Maybe even link up to the RSS feeds of developer's sites such as Wadjet Eye.

That's not a bad idea, it could even serve as a replacement for the Links page on the current site.


Also, I've taken this opportunity to resurrect the Bug Tracker (http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/Newsite/BugTracker.aspx), which has lain dormant for quite a while. The sheer number of entries makes it quite hard to know how to take it forward, but maybe it needs some sort of voting system where people can back the suggestions that would be most useful to them?

Yay! The Bug Tracker will be nice to have again.. (after we prune it first).

Many of the previous mock-ups (in the lost thread) showed a "Welcome <user>!" sort of thing. Is logging into the main-site going to be a reality? If so, then you really could implement oddsea's suggestion, and a slur of other things that can be optimized for that.


~Trent

QuoteMany of the previous mock-ups (in the lost thread) showed a "Welcome <user>!" sort of thing. Is logging into the main-site going to be a reality? If so, then you really could implement oddsea's suggestion, and a slur of other things that can be optimized for that.

Yes, well you can already log into the main site, which is how the games page lets you manage your games. For pages where it is useful, the site can integrate the forum login.

I've done a very rough mock-up of the main Games page (http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/Newsite/Games.aspx), but I'm not very happy with it at the moment. There are lots of different potential things to take centre stage (Showcase, Pick of the Month, Award Winners, Search, etc) that it's hard to know how to lay out the page for best effect. Any ideas?

Ooops, thanks for reminding me that I'd forgotten to update the POTM! :=

Quote
Yeah, this has been suggested a few times. The main question is how we would populate this data -- it would take ages for someone to go through and manually link all the games up like this.

Crowdsourcing. If people are logged in while voting for games in the DB you can build up interesting correlations between not only games, but users too. User A who has liked the same games as user B can be recommended games that the user B has already played and liked and vice versa... A way of making the results interesting from the start would be to harvest user ratings for some time before launching the recommendation functionality.

And the AGS logo with characters on it? A point that seems to have been missed out completely...

I'd like it a bit darker, this light blue it is not so easy to read, in my opinion.

Hmm, something wrong with new.adventuregamestudio.co.uk ??  ???

Quote from: Pumaman on Sun 05/04/2009 19:21:23
I've done a very rough mock-up of the main Games page (http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/Newsite/Games.aspx), but I'm not very happy with it at the moment. There are lots of different potential things to take centre stage (Showcase, Pick of the Month, Award Winners, Search, etc) that it's hard to know how to lay out the page for best effect. Any ideas?

I'm liking it, but I do feel it's a bit all over the place when compared to the AGS and Forum pages. Maybe it could use a frame like they have, too? That would then pose the problem of slightly limiting the amount of contents you can reasonably put in, though. In a way of thinking... Ofcource you could just tile everything vertically in one frame and be done with it but that might get a bit boring.

I like the new font and the main page, the content is a matter of tweaking. Everything looks new and fresh, but just maybe a bit too fresh? Not exactly sure
what is trying to be said with the design, but personally I don't have any "retro" feel of what most AGS users probably try to achieve. Don't get me wrong, this is
great, and if what's trying to be said with the design is "look what modern looking games you can create it looks like it was made in Flash etc." (and you can, AGS
is great, but I didn't get the impression it was made for that, just like it wasn't made for fpshooters).
Somebody said something about it being "darker" so that's maybe close to what I'm trying to say in short.

Oh, and maybe a suggestion for the top banner, I'm a bit too lazy to make it now, but as a thought, make it more fluent with the rest of the site (that may even be
applied to the entire site, but it's not that important). It looks a bit empty (perhaps because it's a WIP, in that case nevermind), something to make a user think "I
wanna make some cool adventure games" with an athmosphere, something like the left part of the present banner but more modern.

Oh, and a  :) so you get that I'm not trying to be rude or too serious.

So what's happening to the re-vamp then?

Hate to say it but its way, way too bright.

If my vote counts... darker colours, or less white. Its starting to look like a wordpress thingy (i don't like wordpress thingy's).

Quote from: IndieBoy on Fri 24/04/2009 17:10:57
So what's happening to the re-vamp then?

Nothing at the moment, I haven't had any inspiration yet for how to design the Games page. If anyone has any ideas, feel free to post them!

A kind of itunes cover flow for top rated games would be cool. or maybe something like the web app at the top of the The Game Institute (http://www.gameinstitute.com/) page, rotating and showing details on top rated games.

I think this has already been suggested, and i have no idea how hard it would be to design (although looking at the elements on certain blogs, such as dualnames HHGTAGS rotating word sphere thing, i'm sure its doable)

IMO one of the worst things about to current games page is how much text there is - it looks almost like a marketing survey. The new site one you have semi designed is much less intimidating to a new casual browser (wow i sound like Nintendo :P!) but i think a big flashy app full of screenshots would make it much easier to get started seeing what AGS can do than only a pick of the month and award winners.

Anyway i'm all talk and no action, because my web design skills are pretty mediocre by these standards, but i thought I'd throw some suggestions out there. Whaddya think?

Hey Guys,

Not sure if you're still looking for feedback on this. Have only just stumbled across it!

I have a couple questions, and comments to throw into the mix.

Why is the site being updated? (Looking for a larger audience? Updating code? etc)

Has the 'style' been locked down?

The new design by itself looks great, it's a really nice and clean design. A little bright, perhaps.

[/b]

As other people have mentioned the current layout runs the risk of looking a little too 'modern'. The appeal of AGS for many people, ties back to classic 'retro gaming'. I don't think 'legacy gaming' is sold that well in the new layout.

It's almost as if the new site is trying to re-invent AGS itself, is that the intention?

A design that I think gets the mix between 'retro' and 'modern classic' spot on is www.reloaded.org

For me, AGS games are about the quality of the finished product as well as the accessibility of the editor.  The new layout seems to sell AGS as more as a 'make your dream game, ITS EASY PEASY' kind of thing. Again, that's just how it comes across to me.

At the moment, I think the old layout is actually the better of the two.

Now, I'm a little tired so I'll wrap this up here, sorry if I'm just recycling concerns you've already considered. I wish you the best of luck with the latest design and look forward to seeing the finished product.

- Sean

Err... did someone stole the idea?  ;D

http://www.gameweaver.com/

Quote from: bicilotti on Sat 06/06/2009 22:21:29
Err... did someone stole the idea?  ;D

Nah, that's a rather old design... And to be fair, as soon as you have any sort of game engine, you end up with Download, Create, Upload, Become A Rich Celebrity! sections.

AGS is just taking it to extremes by skipping the Become A Rich Celebrity part.

Quote from: Sean on Tue 28/04/2009 00:54:39

Is it really AGS though?

Yes, it is. By adding in those sprites in a workable area, it will be AGS.

If we go too nostalgic, it destroys the goal of the site, which is to demonstrate and sell the software. If you really want to fight over what AGS is, then why don't we just make a website that looks like it was made in the early 90's. Come on, lets be realistic, the modern look makes the website look more accessible and familiar. Without it, it becomes a fetish to those that relate to the look.

AGS is much more than an engine to create nostalgic games. Its capable of creating modern adventure games with the chance of commerciality. If there wasn't so many games produced with engine with such a diversified look, I would agree with you, but with such a catalog, I think the website would benefit with a modern look.


One thing I would like to add to the conversation. I think we should create a synergy between the website and the forums. It would make it easier for visitors/members to transverse between the forum and website pages.

Is this thread about the Ultimate AGS website or the a New AGS website? I mean it has been months, and we are nearly there. The longer we put it off the more chance we will be repelling a great new crowd of potential AGS users.

Some people think playing Super Mario will bring the glory of childhood back.. :)

Love the font. Love the layout. Love the inclusion of sprites.

Too modern? Never. Even in its Web-2.0-ish design, it's still sweet. Just because we praise old games doesn't mean the site itself needs to look just as dated.

Excellent work!

I found this little tid bit about getting apache web server to publish CHM files.  I know that we already have an online version of the manual but it is not nearly as easy to find things as in the chm version.  I was wondering if it's possible/practical for the current or future AGS website to directly publish chm files and if so would the usage be similar to chm or insome way better than the current online manual?

The reason I ask is that if it were easier to search for things in the online manual then it would be easier to help folks in the beginner's forum.

http://www.cyberciti.biz/tips/decompile-chm-file-to-view-as-html.html

Quote
Force apache to publish chm files

You can force Apache to publish chm file contents if there is trailing slash in request to that file. First make sure you have working mod_python. Now open httpd.conf /apache2.conf file:
# vi httpd.conf

Add following lines to your httpd.conf:
AddHandler python-program .chm
PythonHandler archmod.mod_chm

Save and close the file. Restart apache.
# /etc/init.d/httpd restart

Now upload file.chm to document root of your Apache webserver. Now view file by typing URL: http://you.com/file.chm/

Note: trailing slash at the end of URL.

How's this going? I'd love to see this put to testing real soon. Its just such a awesome web layout.

Here's an idea.

How about a 'Recrut a Team' button somewhere in the main site... even if it just links to the Forum Thread of the same name.  It might encourage new users to ask for help rather than thinking hey have to tackle such a project on their own.  And also it would cut down on people posting all over gen-gen and other boards asking for help because they havent seen the 'RaT' thread.

Right, I thought it was time to try and inject some energy back into this.

So, I've been doing some work behind the scenes implementing the back-end code for the main Games page here:
http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/Newsite/Games.aspx
so it's now all running with real data instead of being a mock-up.

What do people think about having that layout as the Games page? It definitely needs some tidying up so if anyone has any ideas on how to make it look better, or has any alternative layouts, your feedback is welcome.

Well, this layout differs significantly from the ones in the designs (particularly in the use of graphics), in ways that I would consider... umm, "not better".

Could you maybe explain what you're trying to do with this new variation, or what you didn't like about the previous layouts?

I'm not really sure what you mean, I don't think there have been any designs for the Games page.

This is the page that you get when you click "Games", this is not the main page (you can see that here (http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/newsite/Home.aspx)).

If anyone wants to contribute a design for this Games page, you're more than welcome.

Uh, yeah. Sorry, I got confused between this and the front page. Now it makes a lot more sense.

I don't think ive seen ALL the pages this "done" and I gotta say I am liking it all :P.
About the games page, so far I think it looks ok. Not saying it can't be done better etc though :P.
I am sure some of the other web designers here on the forum will soonish come with their input :).

Clean and crisp, looks good!

the screenshots are WAY too small.

Some of the text doesnt line up properly, and the general layout feels sloppy.

here's what it looks like on my screen: http://easycaptures.com/fs/uploaded/321/4526722594.png

some suggestions:
1. reduce the size of help and support - consider making it across the page at the bottom
2. there's too many different fonts going on. I count 4 different styles. Try to stick to just one font.
3. The font sizes are all over the place too. Under 'pick of the month' for example, the title is smaller than the content text!
4. if increasing the size of the thumbnails isnt an option, consider showing only a portion of a screenshot inside the same size thumb.
eg:
(http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff259/monkey_e/rockabillykid.png)(original 320x200 scaled to 120x75) becomes
(http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/1408/smalll.png)(a 120x75 portion of the original image) or even
(http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/7915/biggerb.png)(a 300x180 portion scaled to 120x75)

overall, its looking good, but just lacks that polish to make the grade.

One thing that stands out to me is that there isn't any white boxes around the text as in the other pages, but if they're just not implemented yet, ignore this post.

- The capitals "H" & "S" from "Help and Support" are not shown properly in the box, the top parts are running over the border.
(Using Mozilla FireFox 3.5.2)
- The thumbnails could be a bit bigger, as already mentioned by others.



Nice design!

The letters stand out because the font isn't the right one (or not similar to the other pages).

I've no problems with the thumbnails. Maybe make a pop up with bigger shot if you hover? I did similar on my site (http://gamesolutions.efzeven.nl/ags-index-f/). Just hover the links. The transparency of the shots can vary so you could see the site through the images.

[ Arj0n ]: The "Help and Support" text is just a placeholder.

I'm glad you've picked this up again! What bothers me here is that none of the pages (except the home page) are aligned properly with the righthand panes. Also I think the different portions of the Games-page need more distinct borders so it looks less like one big blob of text. Maybe the white boxes that Mazoliin mentioned, maybe something else. Otherwise I'm liking it! The layout works well!

Quote from: Leon on Mon 10/08/2009 10:16:11
Maybe make a pop up with bigger shot if you hover?

Seconded.

Ps. The "Lucky dip" feature is LONG OVERDUE! :)

Or use www.highslide.com to be able to open them full size in a popup. (I not that big of a fan of those "automatic popups".

(Even though I know youd sort it out without any problem, I woulden't mind help adding highslide if you decide to use it :). I also got a "unlimited" license so you wont have to use the copyright text on it.).

On a side note, it would be cool to use highslide and be able to add more than 1 screenshot to the games page!
(Then you only show 1 at the game page, but when you press the image you get a popup with the gallery containing all the images.)

[edit]
Which is something I have planned to do anyway with www.agsarchives.com.

Quote from: Peder Johnsen on Mon 10/08/2009 12:15:45
On a side note, it would be cool to use highslide and be able to add more than 1 screenshot to the games page!
(Then you only show 1 at the game page, but when you press the image you get a popup with the gallery containing all the images.)

Now that would be sweet!

The games page just sort of ends suddenly, without warning. I don't know if there's anything to put there, but it's somehow odd to me now it just suddenly stops.

Ok, maybe I didn't make this clear.

Yes, I know that this layout as-is looks sloppy and rubbish.

I was hoping that by posting something that was technically working, somebody here with some graphic design skills would be kind enough to convert that into some sort of mock-up that looks half-decent.

The main titles like "Showcase" and "Pick of the Month" should ideally be image titles in the same font as the "Make Games" and "Play Games" ones on the main page.

The "Help and Support" title is a placeholder and should say something like "More Games" but in a font that matches the right hand pane title on the main page.

So what I'm asking is, is anybody with some design skills prepared to help out moving the Games pages from working prototype to slick final design?

Hey, that's a good start tho!

Some critique and feedback:

- The header takes a lot of real state. It should be a little snuggier I would think, especially if all pages are going to have the same header. This is less design and more application side, but I'd like to see my login info in all pages. It kind of drives me crazy that the only way I can tell if I'm logged in or not to the site is if I check the forums.

- Oh my, too many fonts! I think professional designers would agree that picking and sticking to the right couple of fonts is much better. I see at least 4 fonts used on the site plus not to mention they're not even remotely closed to the ones used for the editor logo. I think AGS in general has needed a more unified design style ;)

- I like that you guys are introducing at least orange in the equation. That really helps a lot! The color blue is a bit much. Yeah, yeah, I understand is the bluecup and all of that, but I think it's a rather abused website color. Not to mentions that those blues don't match the editors blues... I'd really like to see everything being nicely integrated if you're doing this right.

- I like that the boxes are going away. Keep taking out more boxes FTW! The current site feels very heavy with all the boxes inside boxes inside borders inside boxes. :)


On the question of identity I was wondering what is the relationship between the games and the editor? the games page seems to remain buried down as not the primary gateway for the site, but I bet it gets much more traffic from external non-community sources than the rest of the pages.

QuoteYes, I know that this layout as-is looks sloppy and rubbish.

Compared to the old layout? Heck no, it looks great. I love some of the cool ideas such as Lucky Dip :).

Can't wait until you guys get this sorted and up as the new website  :D

Quote from: Edmundito on Tue 11/08/2009 01:49:31
- The header takes a lot of real state. It should be a little snuggier I would think, especially if all pages are going to have the same header. This is less design and more application side, but I'd like to see my login info in all pages. It kind of drives me crazy that the only way I can tell if I'm logged in or not to the site is if I check the forums.

Considering the sort of resolutions that people use these days, I don't think the header needs to be shrunk really. Also, putting the login info on the page means that the page becomes personalized to you and can't be cached, which slows down the server. Login info will be on pages that need to check it, for example the Game Detail page which I've just added has it.

Quote- Oh my, too many fonts! I think professional designers would agree that picking and sticking to the right couple of fonts is much better. I see at least 4 fonts used on the site plus not to mention they're not even remotely closed to the ones used for the editor logo. I think AGS in general has needed a more unified design style ;)

The main page has a few different fonts, but I think they work well together -- and besides, the main home page design is pretty much finalized now anyway, we can't keep twiddling with it forever :P

QuoteOn the question of identity I was wondering what is the relationship between the games and the editor? the games page seems to remain buried down as not the primary gateway for the site, but I bet it gets much more traffic from external non-community sources than the rest of the pages.

On the contrary, I think the Games get more of a mention on the new home page than they do with the current one. Besides, we've already debated the home page to death and there's no point re-opening that debate now. The debate now should be about the Games page!!!

QuoteCompared to the old layout? Heck no, it looks great.

Just to be clear, I don't mean that the overall site layout looks rubbish -- it looks great! And the new main home page looks fantastic.

What I mean is that my thrown-together Games page is all a bit mis-aligned and not very pretty, which is why I want someone's help.

In the mean time, I've added a quick initial version of a Game Detail page here:
http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/Newsite/Games.aspx/Detail/1182
Do you guys think this kind of layout works? Any other suggestions (not for new features on the page, they can come later -- I just mean the layout of the stuff that we already have).

I really dont like that help and support box. Its too big. make it at least half that size and then we're talking...

otherwise looking good!

Quotehttp://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/Newsite/Games.aspx/Detail/1182
Do you guys think this kind of layout works?

I really like the color choices and the layout.  Looks very solid.  I'm loving that we'll be able to have multiple screenshots and that big Download image is excellent.

I don't know how hard this would be to implement, but it's just a thought right now.  How about some bar on the side that would be like: People who liked this game, also liked these:  etc etc.
I imagine it would have to work somehow by with the overall rating of other games from the people who have downloaded and given a good rating to the game being viewed.  It's an idea, but I don't know how well that would work.  So in some cases only a few games would show up, depending on how often that game gets downloaded and rated.
I've seen this somewhere before, I just can't remember where. Hmm.

Also a BIG 'how did you like this game, Rate it!' image jammed somewhere in the middle of the content.  The easier it is for someone to spot that they can rate games, the better (i'd even rate games more often :P)

Oh, and I've always found the content advisory images a little hard to understand.  I always have to roll my mouse over the images to see what the meanings are (although I don't care what the content is, I'm usually just curious what it's rated at).  Perhaps one of the artists here can revamp the look.  It's time for a new one.

Anyway, I really like it. :P

Latest version is looking really nice.  Here are a couple of thoughts / ideas that may be of use.  This thread is rather long so I apologize if these thing have been brought up before, it's just what came to my mind when I reviewed the latest version.

Main Games Page 
Currently Pick of the month is in one column and show case is in another.  What if these were to span both columns.  For  "Pick of the Month" the text would appear in the left column and it's screen shot in the right column.  For "Showcase" there would  be one game in each column with both text and thumbnail.  A crappy example follows:

Pick of the Month

August 2009 Rockabilly Kid Chosen by SSH Rockabilly Kid won the "5 Years a MAGS host" special edition of MAGS back in May and so far opinion on this vignette has been pretty positive, garnering 3 cups from the review panel and in the high-seventies in user votes. It's a fun little Lucasarts-style game and worth a shot.

(http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff259/monkey_e/rockabillykid.png)

Showcase
New to AGS? Check out these great games to get you started! All sorts of games have been made
with AGS, but here is our pick of the best for you to try out:

Ben Jordan: Paranormal  Investigator Case 3 - The          Sorceress of Smailholm        The tiny Scottish village of          Smailholm has seen better days. Two local children have been murdered, ...

Ben Jordan: Paranormal  Investigator Case 6 - Scourge    of the Sea People                Following Alice's near-fatal        poisoning in Japan, the paranormal investigating trio decides a vacatio...

AGS Page
Seems like the page ought to start with some kind of graphic, possibly the room editor screen shot or perhaps a collage od editor elements?

I like the game detail page layout, as well as RickJ's suggestion on the Games page. And continuing that, could the AGS Awards section be tiled like the Showcase is here? The side box is OK in my opinion. The bottom of the page could use something. A big "Lucky Dip" button with a touch of air up and down of it?

I think the layout looks good!
Though instead of having the option to show other screenshots directly on the page, I would prefer having a box pop up when you press the image for then to be able to go through the whole "gallery".
I will make a mockup today to show you what I mean!

Quote from: Peder Johnsen on Thu 13/08/2009 09:43:59
I think the layout looks good!
Though instead of having the option to show other screenshots directly on the page, I would prefer having a box pop up when you press the image for then to be able to go through the whole "gallery".
I will make a mockup today to show you what I mean!

no way, the first thing I want to see is a screenshot. its the main contributing factor to whether or not I'd download the game.  I dont want to have to click several times before I can see the screenshot. there's too many crap games out there to sift through already without adding extra work.

I think you missunderstood me a bit cosmicr.
You will soon see what I mean anyway when I finish the mockup!

Are we also talking about extra fields for the games DB? Here's what I'd like to see:

External reviews section
Links to hints/tips and CGA threads
List of AGS Award nominations as well as wins

Also, is there any possibility of on game upload that AGS actually stores a single low-quality low-res copy of the screenshot as a backup (one that onyl takes a few K) just since there are so many broken screenshots...

Here is what I meant:
http://www.agsarchives.com/ags/game.htm

Peder, could the viewing of the screenshots be changed into this way:
when clicking on the screenshot: go to next screenshot instead of closing the viewing immediately.

I'll check it out!

Quote from: Peder Johnsen on Thu 13/08/2009 12:13:46
Here is what I meant:
http://www.agsarchives.com/ags/game.htm

Ah I see. Yeah that looks good!

Quote from: [ Arj0n ] on Thu 13/08/2009 12:57:36
Peder, could the viewing of the screenshots be changed into this way:
when clicking on the screenshot: go to next screenshot instead of closing the viewing immediately.

Done!
http://www.agsarchives.com/ags/game.htm

Quote from: Peder Johnsen on Fri 14/08/2009 11:43:55

Quote from: [ Arj0n ] on Thu 13/08/2009 12:57:36
Peder, could the viewing of the screenshots be changed into this way:
when clicking on the screenshot: go to next screenshot instead of closing the viewing immediately.

Done!
http://www.agsarchives.com/ags/game.htm

I think that looks really slick! Exactly how a screenshot gallery should be! Nice idea!

Yes, I agree.  This is excellent.
Although a 1, 2, 3, 4 thing at the bottom would also be nice instead of just previous and next.  But that's just being picky. :P

Nice Peder!

QuoteHow about some bar on the side that would be like: People who liked this game, also liked these:

Yes, this is something that's been talked about before. It would be good to add at some point.

QuoteAlso a BIG 'how did you like this game, Rate it!' image jammed somewhere in the middle of the content.  The easier it is for someone to spot that they can rate games, the better (i'd even rate games more often )

That's a good idea, yeah the voting link is easy to miss on the current site.

QuoteCurrently Pick of the month is in one column and show case is in another.  What if these were to span both columns.  For  "Pick of the Month" the text would appear in the left column and it's screen shot in the right column.  For "Showcase" there would  be one game in each column with both text and thumbnail.  A crappy example follows:

I like that idea -- I've changed the test page to look like this:
http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/Newsite/Games.aspx

QuoteThe bottom of the page could use something. A big "Lucky Dip" button with a touch of air up and down of it?

That might work well, if someone can draw an appropriate button image that would fit the look of the page!

QuoteAre we also talking about extra fields for the games DB?

Well, I see this as a two-stage process:

Stage 1 -- convert the existing functionality over to the new site. Ideally I'd like this to be ready so that the new site can launch on the AGS 10th Anniversary, which is in a month's time.

Stage 2 -- build on the new site to add new features that people have been wanting. The things you mention could be done at that point, they're all good ideas.

QuoteThough instead of having the option to show other screenshots directly on the page, I would prefer having a box pop up when you press the image for then to be able to go through the whole "gallery".

I like that idea, and your mockup looks really good. This is definitely something that could be done as part of the Stage 2 work to allow more than one screenshot.


Anyway I've updated the game detail page a bit more, the game authors bit is now completed and it now shows you other games that everyone on the team has worked on. This is different to the old site which just displays other games that have the same team name in the Author field -- I hope this way is more useful?
Example here:
http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/Newsite/Games.aspx/Detail/905/A_Tale_of_Two_Kingdoms

I'm sure this has been mentioned before but, on the "Download AGS" page it says that people with Windows 95 to ME should just upgrade to XP... and then right below that there's a link for older versions. We could potentially give them a break and point them in that direction? Just a thought.

I'm liking the current look alot. Nothing new that stands out bad to me :)

Quote from: Pumaman on Sat 15/08/2009 21:09:05

QuoteCurrently Pick of the month is in one column and show case is in another.  What if these were to span both columns.  For  "Pick of the Month" the text would appear in the left column and it's screen shot in the right column.  For "Showcase" there would  be one game in each column with both text and thumbnail.  A crappy example follows:

I like that idea -- I've changed the test page to look like this:
http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/Newsite/Games.aspx

Yes exactly what I had in mind.  Looks really good.

Games Page - Help & Support Panel
What if this were made to look like the right panel on the home page with the followinf headlines/topics:

* Find Games
* Recent Comments
* Most popular Last Week

Forums Page - Forum Link
How about using a button, similar to the download button on the home page,  to link to the forum instead of a text link.

AGS Page - Help & Support Panel
Needs to be stylized to look a bit more like the panel on the home page.

Home Page

Quote
We could potentially give them a break and point them in that direction? Just a thought.

Upgrading to XP is the best advice for nearly everyone. Perhaps there could be a link to info that explains in more detail the pros/cons of upgrading to XP or /not upgrading to XP and using older versions of Ags?

Quote from: Mr Flibble on Sat 15/08/2009 21:25:13
I'm sure this has been mentioned before but, on the "Download AGS" page it says that people with Windows 95 to ME should just upgrade to XP... and then right below that there's a link for older versions. We could potentially give them a break and point them in that direction? Just a thought.

Less than 1% of people are still using Windows 98, and it would be very dangerous to have a Win98 machine connected to the internet now that MS are no longer releasing security patches for it. Therefore no, I don't think we should give them a break.

QuoteGames Page - Help & Support Panel
What if this were made to look like the right panel on the home page with the followinf headlines/topics:

* Find Games
* Recent Comments
* Most popular Last Week

Forums Page - Forum Link
How about using a button, similar to the download button on the home page,  to link to the forum instead of a text link.

AGS Page - Help & Support Panel
Needs to be stylized to look a bit more like the panel on the home page.

I completely agree with all these points -- what we need is someone to make the necessary graphics.

Would anyone be prepared to do this? I'm not sure how much further we can take the new website without getting the graphical details sorted out.

I had completely forgotten about this thread, and it looks like everyone else has too.
I'm eager to get that website up and running, so I made 2 images that you were missing and some suggestions of what I felt would be better.

(http://www.bryvis.com/entertainment/other/agsf/website/sidebox_titleForumsSingle.png)
This image is needed for the Forums tab, since you have Recent News, in it's place.  Since the one you had on the Home tab had SSH's hands all over it. :D  That guy has his hands all over Everything!

(http://www.bryvis.com/entertainment/other/agsf/website/sidebox_titleGames.png)
This is for the Games tab.

(http://www.bryvis.com/entertainment/other/agsf/website/sidebox_titleHelp.png)
This replaces your temp graphics for the AGS tab.  I couldn't think of what to put in here.  I used a magnifying lens, but I fear that people will think it suits "Search" better.  Let me know.

---

(http://www.bryvis.com/entertainment/other/agsf/website/brought2you.png)
This is a feature I love the most, the ability to check which games everyone in the team has worked on, but once you have some names like SSH or Mods on the list (who have worked on dozens of games) the list becomes quite large and clusterfucked.  

I definitely love the feature, so I don't want to see it disappear.  How about having the >> buttons to show what games that person has worked on (like Nikolas in the example above).  Also the light cell division really helps keep your mind at ease.

Possibly even having the "so-and-so has worked on X other games: >>" on the right of what they were a part of.  But I don't know how to word it without it being too long.  Perhaps just: "Has worked on X other games: >>".

---

(http://www.bryvis.com/entertainment/other/agsf/website/gamesindex.png)
Also this was one thing I didn't really like.  Perhaps instead of "Recent Comments" have "Recently Added" or "Newly Added" games.  Comments are really useless to me compared to recently added.

---

Also Lucky Dip, perhaps instead of randomizing through EVERY game, have it randomly search through 3 cups or higher games.  Or even "ALL" beside the Lucky Dip.  I don't want to sound rude, but usually when I press that lucky dip, it seems to more than not choose a 1 or 2 cup game.  A game that doesn't look interesting at all and one I wouldn't want to play.  I know it kinda destroys the idea of randomly choosing a game, but the most people I can see using this random feature would be people new to the site.  People who are unsure of what game to play first.  We don't want to scare them away with poorly made games, do we?

Anyway, that pretty much sums it all up.
If you have any other graphics you need, let me know and I'll see if I can help out.


edit: Actually since the other thread was deleted, I completely forgot about my last template idea (http://www.bryvis.com/images/other/agsf/ryan_template4.png).  I think I'm gonna resurrect this old buddy and turn it into my own site, with a few modifications obviously.

edit again: I was also thinking about having the ability to search games by user rating.  Which the idea stemmed mostly from the user rating thread in GenGen.  Anyway to make it just the same as the blue cup rating, how does this idea sound?:
(http://www.bryvis.com/entertainment/other/agsf/website/userrating.png)

That way player rating looks just the same as the panel rating.  Just as professional.  When I look at player rating being 84%, somehow it looks much bigger and better of a rating than 4 cups (which 84% would falls at 4.2 cups--rounding to 4 cups).

In theory, I actually really like this idea of depicting the player rating as red cups. :)

Rounding the percentages up/down could prove a bit sticky, though. A 69% rating would give you three cups, but a 71% rating would give you four. That's assuming every 20% = 1 cup, with the up/down rounding done within 10% each way.

Why not project the 100% score (devided by 2) over the cups? So 69% would become 3.5 cups. You're not tied to the 1-5 partition, are you?

User ratings could have half-cups or even smaller fractions.

Quote from: LimpingFish on Sat 19/12/2009 23:25:40
In theory, I actually really like this idea of depicting the player rating as red cups. :)

Rounding the percentages up/down could prove a bit sticky, though. A 69% rating would give you three cups, but a 71% rating would give you four. That's assuming every 20% = 1 cup, with the up/down rounding done within 10% each way.

Seconded, and this would same as the best way to stop the controversy. So you can decide who's opinion is the best, an overated probably crowd's opinion or the commitee's?

Quote from: SSH on Sun 20/12/2009 09:29:21
User ratings could have half-cups or even smaller fractions.

Why not then just have a percentage? Which is what there is now?

I like the idea of red cups. But has to be 1-5.

Quote from: markbilly on Sun 20/12/2009 12:07:52

Quote from: SSH on Sun 20/12/2009 09:29:21
User ratings could have half-cups or even smaller fractions.

Why not then just have a percentage? Which is what there is now?

Because a picture is better than text.

Quote from: SSH on Sun 20/12/2009 09:29:21
User ratings could have half-cups or even smaller fractions.

Well the cups are 10 pixels wide each leaving you with a 50 pixel 'status bar' to play with. You could have one column of pixels coloured for every 2% in the user ratings. This way we can have a nice visual representation of the cups without losing the accuracy of a percentage (for what is 1% among friends  ;))

Quote from: Ryan Timothy on Fri 18/12/2009 22:43:16
I'm eager to get that website up and running, so I made 2 images that you were missing and some suggestions of what I felt would be better.

Thanks for doing those and getting the ball rolling again! Hopefully now that it's new year I should have more spare time to try and get this new site finished.

QuoteThis replaces your temp graphics for the AGS tab.  I couldn't think of what to put in here.  I used a magnifying lens, but I fear that people will think it suits "Search" better.  Let me know.

I like it, but yeah maybe some sort of stylised question mark might work better at showing that it's help and not search.

QuoteThis is a feature I love the most, the ability to check which games everyone in the team has worked on, but once you have some names like SSH or Mods on the list (who have worked on dozens of games) the list becomes quite large and clusterfucked. 
I definitely love the feature, so I don't want to see it disappear.  How about having the >> buttons to show what games that person has worked on (like Nikolas in the example above).

Yes, definitely. That's a good idea and something I will add.

QuoteAlso this was one thing I didn't really like.  Perhaps instead of "Recent Comments" have "Recently Added" or "Newly Added" games.  Comments are really useless to me compared to recently added.

QuoteAlso Lucky Dip, perhaps instead of randomizing through EVERY game, have it randomly search through 3 cups or higher games.  Or even "ALL" beside the Lucky Dip.  I don't want to sound rude, but usually when I press that lucky dip, it seems to more than not choose a 1 or 2 cup game.  A game that doesn't look interesting at all and one I wouldn't want to play.  I know it kinda destroys the idea of randomly choosing a game, but the most people I can see using this random feature would be people new to the site.  People who are unsure of what game to play first.  We don't want to scare them away with poorly made games, do we?

Does anyone else have an opinion on these two points?

QuoteI was also thinking about having the ability to search games by user rating.

Good idea, this would probably be useful.

QuoteAnyway to make it just the same as the blue cup rating, how does this idea sound?:
(http://www.bryvis.com/entertainment/other/agsf/website/userrating.png)

Red cups? Blasphemy!!

Actually something like that is a good idea, it makes it easier to visually compare the panel and player ratings. I'll certainly think about it.

I'm not sure red is the way to go, it has a lot of negative connotation to it. It's as if the blue cups are about how good the game is, and the red ones how...evil the game is. Or something. So maybe green?

Quote from: Andail on Tue 05/01/2010 23:36:34
I'm not sure red is the way to go, it has a lot of negative connotation to it. It's as if the blue cups are about how good the game is, and the red ones how...evil the game is. Or something. So maybe green?

Well, red seems more of a logical choice. Red is considered opposite of blue. For some reason. I think I find the design perfect. At least in terms of ideas. And the red cup rating will solve this whole thing with the rating panel.

Go with a Blue Star rating system. Most sites that I see reviews use a star rating system.

(http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/AGSratings.png)

My stars look cruddy, but you get the idea.  :)

I prefer the cups, and I think red works fine. You could try a lighter shade of blue or maybe teal, but cups are awesome.

Is it still going to be mentioned how many votes were made? I mean a player rating of 85% out of 5 people is a lot different from a player rating of 81% out of 700 people's votes. What about making the player rating out of rogers?
Like this very quick mock-up:
(http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/playeratingrogervote.png)

I personally don't see red as being opposite, evil or bad.

I like the player rating being cups because it keeps a visual relation between the panel rating and player rating.  The roger idea isn't bad.  It would work better if it were the same size pixels as the cups, and a light blue around the character to match.  But I definitely like the cups better.

Edit:

Quote from: Pumaman on Tue 05/01/2010 22:20:22

QuoteThis replaces your temp graphics for the AGS tab.  I couldn't think of what to put in here.  I used a magnifying lens, but I fear that people will think it suits "Search" better.  Let me know.

I like it, but yeah maybe some sort of stylised question mark might work better at showing that it's help and not search.

So other than the magnifying lens graphic being changed, you don't know of or need any other graphics?  I may as well attack them all at once if you have other graphics you need.

Why not make the player ratings the same as the panel (both the blue cups)?

I really don't think people would be confused.  They're on separate lines next to the text explaining what they are.

Yeah, that's exactly what I was going to suggest. Also giving a few pixels space between each cup would make it look much tidier too.

Am I alone to think that the bluecup/content rating icons could do with a facelift? I recognize the nostalgia of it, but the bright EGA style colors really clash with the softer nuances of the rest of the site. Also, how many of those who play but don't themselves develop AGS games are actually familiar with Roger and the original bluecup graphic (of course the bluecup is now a symbol of AGS, but do we need it to be represented by that hard-to-make-out, pixelated, little thing)?

I personally think a hi-res bluecup icon (stylized, not photo-realistic) and some clearer and more pleasant to look at content rating symbols would bring the games pages a lot closer to the visual finish of the new front page.

Ya, I've suggested that a while back, probably on the older deleted website thread.  I think little blue cartoony things matching this (http://www.bryvis.com/entertainment/other/agsf/website/sidebox_titleGames.png) style might look good, perhaps.

Quote from: Darth Mandarb on Wed 06/01/2010 14:25:01
Why not make the player ratings the same as the panel (both the blue cups)?

I'd rather they weren't, to be honest. Distinct visual styles would help indicate that we're dealing with two separate opinions. But then, I do have less fate in the confusability threshold of the masses. :=

I can get behind the star suggestion, though I'd prefer them to be gold.

Quote from: GarageGothic on Wed 06/01/2010 17:07:45
I personally think a hi-res bluecup icon (stylized, not photo-realistic) and some clearer and more pleasant to look at content rating symbols would bring the games pages a lot closer to the visual finish of the new front page.

I agree.

QuoteI can get behind the star suggestion, though I'd prefer them to be gold.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v472/skeith2572/AGSratings3.png)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v472/skeith2572/AGSratings3.png)

Wow, why not the red cups? Makes perfect sense, keeps in with the whole bluecup/redcup joke! If anything I think the panel should be red and the player rating blue, but both should definitely be cups!

I like the idea of keeping cups for ratings, and making them a little different to distinguish panel ratings from the common people ratings :P

Quote from: Andail on Tue 05/01/2010 23:36:34
I'm not sure red is the way to go, it has a lot of negative connotation to it. It's as if the blue cups are about how good the game is, and the red ones how...evil the game is. Or something. So maybe green?

I would say orange is the way to go here. First, it is the proper contrast to blue, even more striking against blue than red, and it does not have the hostile reputation that red has. Additionally, it complements the link colour in the mockups, so it would be sexier and less messy looking than it they were red.

Quote from: Disco on Thu 07/01/2010 02:57:03
I would say orange is the way to go here. First, it is the proper contrast to blue, even more striking against blue than red, and it does not have the hostile reputation that red has. Additionally, it complements the link colour in the mockups, so it would be sexier and less messy looking than it they were red.

This is orange:
(http://www.bryvis.com/entertainment/other/agsf/website/userrating_orange.png)

And the red:
(http://www.bryvis.com/entertainment/other/agsf/website/userrating.png)

I think I still like the red better, but I understand what you mean by keeping the same colors as the website.

edit:  Actually I've been looking at it now since they're both together to compare, and the orange is starting to look more appealing.  It's up to you guys, and CJ.

I like the orange better, but not the current tone. That looks more like sand-brown.

I made sure to use the same orange color as the links (except for the outline which is darker because lighter makes it look ghostly on that light blue background).

Edit:
Perhaps I was going a little too light with the first attempts, decided to try again to compare it to the blue cup:
(http://www.bryvis.com/entertainment/other/agsf/website/userrating_orange2.png)

Couple of quick contributions:

A blue cup based on the one I made for the RoN template:

(http://i485.photobucket.com/albums/rr218/ProgZmax/bcup-1.gif)

And a coin featuring Roger's face:

(http://i485.photobucket.com/albums/rr218/ProgZmax/rogcoin.gif)

The cup should integrate fine but depending on the final background color the coin might need different shading along the outer edges.

Anyway, use them or don't!  Also, animated versions (steamy cup, shiny coin) are possible.

The coin is nice, but I think it's too small for people to find roger's face in it (in fact I thought it was the taiji symbol when I first looked at it).
The cup, well... it sure cannot beat the original. The way CJ drew it as sprite # is really why we form a cult around it.

I think you need to come back from 2000, Gilbert.  You had this same argument about updating Roger and as time goes on these graphics really aren't going to satisfy or make sense to anyone but a few people on the site.  

Also, if we're going to update the website, it makes little sense to keep legacy artwork when the new content looks so polished.

I do agree that the coin is perhaps too small to read, but I wasn't sure exactly what size to make these things.  The coin could be double-sized and cleaned up to be more recognizable, surely.

Edit: Done.  I left roger blocky to keep him recognizable.

(http://i485.photobucket.com/albums/rr218/ProgZmax/rogcoin_big.gif)

I think we're getting a little too anal about this.

ProgZ sprites are lovely, could do we being double sized.

AGS Panal Rating:             (http://i485.photobucket.com/albums/rr218/ProgZmax/bcup-1.gif)(http://i485.photobucket.com/albums/rr218/ProgZmax/bcup-1.gif)(http://i485.photobucket.com/albums/rr218/ProgZmax/bcup-1.gif)
Player Rating:                   (http://i485.photobucket.com/albums/rr218/ProgZmax/rogcoin.gif)(http://i485.photobucket.com/albums/rr218/ProgZmax/rogcoin.gif)(http://i485.photobucket.com/albums/rr218/ProgZmax/rogcoin.gif)(http://i485.photobucket.com/albums/rr218/ProgZmax/rogcoin.gif)


If not just use red cups.

I for one didn't see roger's face in there at all. I saw it as a cinnamon bun or something.
But anyways...

Are the mockup pages in the first post still representative of the new style ? With the blue external luor around everything, I think it ends up looking like some cheap livejournal. -_-' I've a problem with the whole color scheme, actually, which makes everything look quite bland.

But it's probably too late to convince anybody to try something different ?

Here's a quick double-sized cup to go with the 2x coin I made earlier:

(http://i485.photobucket.com/albums/rr218/ProgZmax/bcupbig.gif)

(http://i485.photobucket.com/albums/rr218/ProgZmax/rogcoin_big.gif)

Roger always did look like he had a cinnamon roll on his head, so I guess it makes sense.

Edit:  Here's one last variant of the coin with a darker outline and a more symmetric shape.

(http://i485.photobucket.com/albums/rr218/ProgZmax/rogcoin_big2.gif)

Quote from: Lufia on Thu 07/01/2010 12:58:46
Are the mockup pages in the first post still representative of the new style ?

I haven't read through this thread since it was first created, so I can't remember what stuff we had in the beginning for ideas.  But this is the design that was voted for by most people, and will be the new page.  Designed by Loominous and Darth (and I believe formatted into a website form by CJ):  http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/Newsite/Home.aspx

edit:
Actually I decided to see what a mock-up of Progz cups would look like on the site (had to slightly resize them):
New:
(http://www.bryvis.com/entertainment/other/agsf/website/userrating_progzcups.png)

vs

Old:
(http://www.bryvis.com/entertainment/other/agsf/website/userrating_orange2.png)

I don't think ProgZMax's icons quite fit, because they look very pixel art and the rest of the design is vector smooth. Since pixel art is fitting for AGS, could I suggest a subtle and soft drop shadow on the cups which might help blend them into the design. I also think there should be a pixel or two between each cup.

I'm not sure about using Roger's face on a coin, because I'm still hoping that ProgZMax's updated Roger design will one day replace the old one!

Actually, I don't think Roger should feature in any of the icons. I love what Chris Jones has given us in AGS, but Roger is a yellow-faced mutant I'd be glad to see the misshapen back of. He also means nothing to those who are new to AGS and just browsing for a game.

If the cups are to be redone, redo the content advisory icons too!

Quote from: Ali on Thu 07/01/2010 17:49:50
Since pixel art is fitting for AGS, could I suggest a subtle and soft drop shadow on the cups which might help blend them into the design. I also think there should be a pixel or two between each cup.

Here we go:
(http://www.bryvis.com/entertainment/other/agsf/website/userrating_progzcups_shadow.png)
(yes, I literally have nothing better to do.  ;D)

Love those new cups but now the contest advisory symbols stand out. Re-do them in the same style and we have a winner imho.

Quote from: Ryan Timothy on Thu 07/01/2010 16:09:33
I haven't read through this thread since it was first created, so I can't remember what stuff we had in the beginning for ideas.  But this is the design that was voted for by most people, and will be the new page.  Designed by Loominous and Darth (and I believe formatted into a website form by CJ):  http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/Newsite/Home.aspx

Yeah, that's what's linked in the first post too. And I reiterate : I find the color scheme dreadful. But if it's been decided by a vote, I'm not going to start an uprising to convince people my opinion is better than theirs. I'll stick to whining it was better before once the new site goes online. >.>

There's a thing I told to Peder Johnsen, knowing that he's working on some separate AGS game archives website.

I found content advisory uncomplete. There are cases when game does not have any obscene language, nudity or explicit violence, yet it might not be suggested for those of young age (or gentle soul :P). I mean something highly dramatic, or thrilling, or depressing; adult topics also (not related to sex): racism, illness, death, war, cruelty of the life, etc. Maybe you should invent some fourth rating for those cases.

I could be biased, but I think the color scheme is perfection.

Ryan/progZ - love the new cups

As for the 'content advisory' I had a quick idea of something like this:

(http://www.twin-design.com/ags/help/ags_icons01.png)

But that felt too "icon heavy" to me (and took away a bit from the ratings) so I altered it:

(http://www.twin-design.com/ags/help/ags_icons02.png)

These icons were borrowed and [very] quickly mocked-up to this but it was more just to show the idea.

I really like the non-heavy icon version Darth made (plus the new cups from Progz and the colours from Ryan). Borrowed or not.

As of the website design and colours I think they fit well, with the forums which I doubt will change, and our Blue Cup mascot.

So when is this re-vamp going to happen? As I see it we are only discussing the little final touches now. 

Quote from: IndieBoy on Thu 07/01/2010 22:18:59
I really like the non-heavy icon version Darth made (plus the new cups from Progz and the colours from Ryan). Borrowed or not.

As of the website design and colours I think they fit well, with the forums which I doubt will change, and our Blue Cup mascot.

So when is this re-vamp going to happen? As I see it we are only discussing the little final touches now. 

We've yet to design all the minor details! Seriously, now :P

Here's PEGI (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pegi)'s take on rating icons:

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/7d/Newpegi_violence.gif) (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/fa/Newpegi_profanity.gif) (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/72/Newpegi_fear.gif) (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/42/Newpegi_sex.gif) (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/a6/Newpegi_drugs.gif) (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/7b/Newpegi_discrimination.gif) (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/2e/Newpegi_gambling.gif) (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/34/Newpegi_online.gif)

(Bonus: See if you can guess what they represent!)

Most other rating systems simply use numbers (12, 15, etc) or letters (U, R, etc). But PEGI is used in multiple languages, so I guess symbols work better.

I like Darth's second edit, but multi-coloured icons at such a low resolution could be hazardous. Hi-res alternatives or monotone versions might be clearer.

I think that's the unsung beauty of the original cup as an icon; it's simplicity. It's neatness.

The rating icons are in desperate need of a change, though. Even viewed at 1680x1050 (what I'm looking at now), they're awfully indistinct.

Darth's are better, but at higher resolutions they might suffer the same problem.

Decided to play around and turn progz cups into a more 'modern' graphical style, less pixelly.

Here:
(http://www.bryvis.com/entertainment/other/agsf/website/userrating_progzcups_hidef.png)

I actually kinda like it!

Edit: Oh and Darth, I really like the second edit (the one I have used here on this image).  Those icons are great.  Perhaps I could tweak them to look close to this new style of cups.

Quote
(http://www.bryvis.com/entertainment/other/agsf/website/userrating_progzcups_hidef.png)

Awesome! All shiny and stuff & not too crowded :)

Wow, that looks great Ryan!
This new site looks better by the minute, can't wait for it!

The angle of the bottom of the cup and the handle shape looks weird now.  Why not just draw your own version if mine was insufficient? You'd probably end up with better results. :)

Quote from: ProgZmax on Fri 08/01/2010 04:12:41
The angle of the bottom of the cup and the handle shape looks weird now.  Why not just draw your own version if mine was insufficient? You'd probably end up with better results. :)

Well that's the thing.  It wasn't insufficient, but once Darth added his new icons I decided to try changing yours.  Took only a few minutes versus me actually making a new mug from scratch, and I can be pretty slow at that.  
But you're right, it does look a little weird now that you point it out.


EDIT:  You guessed again!... I got bored and tried to fix the flaws that Progz had mentioned, and I also decided to create my own Content icons closely matching the ones Darth had.  I tried to add a little blue and orange in each of the content advisory icons just to match the orange and blue mugs. ;D  (I also changed it so the mugs were empty instead of filled with coffee)

(http://www.bryvis.com/entertainment/other/agsf/website/userrating_and_content.png)

A blue cup without coffee?  OH NO.  The icons look good to me, though I think the player rating icon should be different to reflect the different (and much larger) audience playing the game.  Hell, even a 100-point bar would work since the player rating deals directly in percentages (and a bar could more accurately illustrate the percentage than 5 icons).  Another option would be stars, yeah, or something like the coin I made earlier?

Either way I'm glad to see some progress being made.

(http://www.bryvis.com/entertainment/other/agsf/website/userrating_and_content.png)

This one is perfection imo, love the outline/colours on the advisory logos.

QuoteThe icons look good to me, though I think the player rating icon should be different to reflect the different (and much larger) audience playing the game.

Huh? You know, if you stop making suggestions this bloody page might actually get finished :P

Shouldn't you be off chasing a UFO or something?

I love that one, looks good. ('gold cup' ratings... lolz)

As for the percentage display or making it larger: just add a number representing the amount of players that voted, which makes the rating more meaningful, and call it a day.

1 cup...2 cups...3 cups...4 cups... *gasp* 5 cups! this game must be great! Must play...  := Oh wait, only 1 guy voted. Must have been the developer. Not playing this game.  ;D


What else does the new site need? It looks great, and I believe ags would benefit from putting it live. Any change suggestions can be put in place afterwards, one at a time.

"If you want everything at once, you'll get nada. If you get one thing at a time, you'll get everything."

Ryan - love it!  Those icons I had used were taken from a 2-second Google images search and sloppily re-sized (because I was at work and didn't have time to pixel them myself) but I think you nailed it!

As much as I love the look of the blue/orange cups (with or without coffee) I have to agree that the percentage rating nature of the Player Ratings sort of clash with the 5 cups ... maybe if the avg. percentage was also displayed (perhaps centered under the cups or under the "help' from the blue cup rating above)?

Edit - something like this:
(http://www.twin-design.com/ags/help/ags_icons03.png)

I also moved the panel ratings down a bit ... they were really crowding the release date.

I totally agree with that idea Darth.  It's excellent.  Percentage underneath, votes to the side, and keeping the orange/gold cups solid.  I love it.

QuoteThose icons I had used were taken from a 2-second Google images search and sloppily re-sized

Ya I knew you only took them from google to show your ideas, which was great cause it pushed my lazy arse into making graphics just like them.

To tell you the truth, these are actually Google images as well, but I mostly just took the outline of the image and rotated, scaled and colored them to my liking.  Even if I showed you the originals, you'd never know they were the source (except for maybe the swords).


I think CJ has been busy lately with that damn thing called life. :P  So when are these updates going to be taken affect?
Are there any other graphical areas of the new website that need 'updating'?  Since I don't work too often lately, being laid off and all.  I've got nothing but time.

Hmm, the links page? (http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/aclinks.htm)

Does what it says on the tin, but nothing says "bland" as much as that page. Some icons or graphic design wouldn't go amiss, IMO. Also perhaps some clever thinking on the Members Websites page? I suppose one giant list is fine, but maybe pull down options or something? Or again just some iconage to replace <li> hell*?

Also as we're** "revolutionising" the website, perhaps the old 404 image could randomize, get a few new entries like? Definitely keep 2ma2's in the list, I love it to bits - but like c.leksutin being the gen gen moderator, Linus' affiliation with AGS these days is pretty limited. It'd be funny for people to donate their AGS game related artwork in famous "broken blue clup situations" :D

* Those pages dont actually use it :P But "knowledge base" does.
** You are

Those are just suggestions. As always, I think it'd still be fine without any of 'em, because I generally just use the forum :P Oh no wait, it's because a UFO came and told me Shane!1 ::) /me goes loopy

I must say I quite like Ryan's icons as well as Darth's edit. I really dig the blue/orange color scheme. One pet peeve though, I know it's difficult to come up with an alternative, but could the sex/nudity icon be a bit less heterosexist? (no biggie if it's stays the same, I realize it's a bit like someone saying "why does the violence icon only show swords when my game is full of gunplay?").

Quote from: Mods on Fri 08/01/2010 17:08:58
Hmm, the links page? (http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/aclinks.htm)

Actually, unless it hasn't been added to the new site mockup.. I think CJ has completely removed the Links page with what's on the right and bottom of this page: http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/Newsite/AGS.aspx


Actually looking at A Tale of Two Kingdoms, I noticed the awards trophy looks bad.  Perhaps I'll touch that up, unless there is a larger version somewhere that can be resized properly, that someone knows of.  Cause to tell you the truth I have no idea what the shape of that trophy is.  
This thing: (http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/Newsite/Content/images/awardsmall.gif)

Edit: Forgot to respond to ya GG.

Quotebut could the sex/nudity icon be a bit less heterosexist?

I have no idea at all how to make a sex symbol more suitable for all types of sex, heterosexual, gay, animals, etc.
I think it 'may' have to stay like this.  :P

Quote from: Ryan Timothy on Fri 08/01/2010 17:32:01
Actually looking at A Tale of Two Kingdoms, I noticed the awards trophy looks bad.  Perhaps I'll touch that up, unless there is a larger version somewhere that can be resized properly, that someone knows of.  Cause to tell you the truth I have no idea what the shape of that trophy is. 
This thing: (http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/Newsite/Content/images/awardsmall.gif)

It's the letters "AGS" on a golden base.

Nice icons, guys, this is looking great!

The icons look excellent! Perfect. :)

Alright.  Took a stab at the AGS awards graphic.  It was pretty tough since the previous version wasn't that great (this one (http://www.americangirlscouts.org/w/images/4/45/ROGER3.gif)), and I tried to keep the same style.

(http://www.bryvis.com/entertainment/other/agsf/website/ags_awards_half.png)
Here's the largest sized graphic (I actually have the half-vectorized version being about twice as high as this one).

(http://www.bryvis.com/entertainment/other/agsf/website/ags_awards_mini.png)
Here's the mini one that displays on the game page.

You can see it here:
(http://www.bryvis.com/entertainment/other/agsf/website/ags_awards_page.png)
(It may be a little crowded vertically--it can always be changed when/if it gets added to the new website)


If this graphic ever does become part of the website or anything, and anyone wants the background to be a different color, I can always give the png with Alpha or whatever.

Hope you's like it, let me know.

Quote
If this graphic ever does become part of the website or anything, and anyone wants the background to be a different color, I can always give the png with Alpha or whatever.

I was thinking about this topic when reading this thread earlier today.  Should there be a resource pak available that contains some of the new cool website icons  in a couple different sizes and varieties?  These would be fore use on members websites to promote their games and/or AGS.  They could also be used as sprites in games themselves, tutorials, etc.         

Liking the new cleaner icons, and especially Darth's new layout edit, a whole bunch. :D

This latest round of brainstorming has resulted in something I think would look damn smart if it was to be officially adopted.

That trophy could use a darkened outline to set it apart from the background better, but otherwise I think it gets the job done.

Quote from: ProgZmax on Sat 09/01/2010 03:35:47
That trophy could use a darkened outline to set it apart from the background better, but otherwise I think it gets the job done.

You speak of the smallest 40 pixel high trophy, correct?


I haven't tried putting an outline on it, but I've definitely thought about it.  Decided not to since it may make the small icon trophy look more like an icon than a trophy.  But you know me, I'll definitely give it a try.

Ben already mentioned to me that it needs more contrast.  I blame my laptop screen, a tiny shift in elevation of my head, and there will be quite a noticeable difference in lighting.  Some days I slouch while leaning back, other days I sit straight.  Meh.

Actually, now that I think of it the yellow backdrop for the awards is tacky tacky and should go.  That way all you'd need is a small drop shadow behind the trophy and you're all set!  Make the text a custom gold colored font if you want to 'enhance' the award aspect :).



Edit: WAIT.

I had a great idea.  Instead of a generic ags award, how about we make one for every category and just list those like the other icons in a row (just like our profiles do with skills).  A mouse over could show 'best blah' or you could still have the 'best blah' next to the icon.  You wouldn't need winner or any of that silliness, just some custom trophies: one that looks like a big puzzle piece for puzzles, a big speaker for sound, a music note for music, etc.  Or get more creative.  Why not use some of the talent we have at the site to make the site look as neat as possible?  We could make the trophies the subject of the next sprite jam, in fact :).

The ags award you made could be used at a larger size as a header or for the infamous 'Lifetime Achievement Award' that has yet to be listed anywhere other than the wiki.

QuoteActually, now that I think of it the yellow backdrop for the awards is tacky tacky and should go.

Goes to show you how blind I am with color combinations, I thought the yellow (whoever chose it) actually looked great.  It made it stand out from everything else, impacting the honor and importance of the trophies.

QuoteInstead of a generic ags award, how about we make one for every category

Personally, I kinda liked having one trophy for all.  But I see where you're going with them shown in a line, but only if the trophies were actually bigger than the ones shown in the games page.  Something like 200 pixels high, then it wouldn't be all that bad having individual trophies.

QuoteWe could make the trophies the subject of the next sprite jam, in fact

Worst thing about making it part of a 'group' thing, would make each trophy completely distinguishable from another, with style, color, etc.  Unless the sprite jam rules were to match a certain style (perhaps even the base of the trophy supplied before hand), or even to have 'make all' the trophies as part of the rules.  
But yes, it would definitely be great to have a website made from individual efforts of the community, and not just a few people.


Btw, what are all the award categories anyway? (not suggesting that I'll make the individual trophy graphics... but honestly, you never know)

I don't remember all the categories, but making all the trophies would be part of the jam to keep continuity, of course :).  200 pixels tall is rather huge though, I think.  Wouldn't 64x64 or even 96x96 do?

I'm not necessarily against unique trophies for each category, however I do think it could save time to do a quick mockup and see if all those trophies end up looking messy when displayed together. Keep in mind that some of the award winners often end up taking quite a few of the categories.

Really quickly for you, Garage:

(http://i485.photobucket.com/albums/rr218/ProgZmax/awards_ex.gif)

I'm not saying to use these in any way.  They were quickly done to illustrate how you could fit them into a nice centered line-up with an eye-catching header of some kind.

Many thanks ProgZ, looks good. The circular design possibly makes them look a bit too much like buttons rather than trophies, but some kind of standardization in shape is definitely the way to go. When I said it might end up looking cluttered, I was imagining more elaborately shaped trophies like Ryan's update of the current AGS Award icon. How about using a common stylized trophy shape embossed with different pictograms similar to ProgZ's?

I like the ideas of medals more than trophies but here's a trophy design:

(http://i485.photobucket.com/albums/rr218/ProgZmax/trophy.gif)

Looks great, ProgZ! The problem with the medals, as I perceived it, was that they didn't really read as medals but more like elevator buttons (adding a ribbon to them might help but would most likely just clutter it up).

A agree, looking good. Not sure if we should also include stars/cups/ratings from other places that tend to review AGS games, perhaps? (It might also take some heat off of the poor ratings ppl to have more reviews for irate developers to get in a strop about)

Quote from: Ryan Timothy on Wed 06/01/2010 01:28:06
So other than the magnifying lens graphic being changed, you don't know of or need any other graphics?  I may as well attack them all at once if you have other graphics you need.

The only other graphic I know that we need is a "Download Demo" button for commercial games, as you can see here:
http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/Newsite/Games.aspx/Detail/1172/Time_Gentlemen_Please
it's a temporary graphic I knocked up at the moment.

QuoteAs much as I love the look of the blue/orange cups (with or without coffee) I have to agree that the percentage rating nature of the Player Ratings sort of clash with the 5 cups ... maybe if the avg. percentage was also displayed (perhaps centered under the cups or under the "help' from the blue cup rating above)?

Good work guys, I really like these new graphics. I've put them onto the test site, you can see an example here:
http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/Newsite/Games.aspx/Detail/1243/The_McCarthy_Chronicles_Episode_1
For now I opted to have the number of votes and percentage displayed in the tooltip when you hover over the player rating cups, do you think this works?


I've also done some further development work on the site:
* Lucky Dip won't pick 1-cup games
* Award Winners, Picks Of The Month and Tabular List options now work
* Added Seach By Name option (the result page is not finished yet)

What still needs to be done:
* The search results page
* The main "Search" page (this will be like the main Games page on the current site)
* The Post Comment form, and the game editing form for game authors


Carry on discussing ideas for the Awards display, one problem with having specific images for specific awards is that the categories tend to change slightly each year so these would need to be kept up to date.

(http://www.bryvis.com/entertainment/other/agsf/website/ags_awards_page2.png)
This was something I was just playing around with.  It also would work better since CJ just mentioned that the awards like to change every year (since the text is vectorized and can be changed on the fly).  But a graphic inside a cup trophy like Progz had, wouldn't be too hard to create a few years down the road.
I was also thinking of making a solid yellow trophy shaped like Progz's, but with the colors and style of this one, and then the image itself could be changed.  Cause this trophy seems more special to me, cause it's got that golden glow.

Quote from: Pumaman on Sat 09/01/2010 17:14:14
The only other graphic I know that we need is a "Download Demo" button for commercial games, as you can see here:

I get right on it.

Oh and I know you're still working on it, the blue cups seem to have shifted to the side under the text "Panel Rating", figured I'd mention it in case your browser doesn't see it that way.  (nevermind.. it was only because the old blue cup was in my cache, I guess, and the page was using that instead--I had to refresh)

Edit:

Quote
* Lucky Dip won't pick 1-cup games

Good job with that.  I guess most of the 2 cup games aren't all that bad, so I'm ok with this.  Anyway, noticed the not rated yet (http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/Newsite/Games.aspx/Detail/1251) games still pop up in the Lucky Dip.  Not sure if you want that happening or not.

I think that trophy is needlessly large and the AGS is too prominent vs the actual AWARD to really be useful, Ryan.  it would work fine as some kind of header to announce the award category on the page or as a specific award, but it's just too unwieldy.

Ya, the shape isn't all that great, but I tried to keep the same design as the old trophy with the whole AGS, so I wouldn't be stepping on any toes. :P

These trophies are 100 pixels high.  When I said 200 pixels earlier, I actually meant it would be best for reasons as RickJ had mentioned.  People wanting the full sized graphic for their own site (I would want it anyway).  But for the games page, having them resized to this size, or perhaps smaller like you suggested would be necessary.

I'll have to admit though, I do miss text beside the trophy.  Maybe just the year underneath the trophy in text is needed.
I also think a game page with only one trophy would look really awkward with this centering idea.

I was thinking centering it along the left panel but it doesn't really matter.  I think right now we should decide whether or not to do unique awards for certain, and then from there decide (if yes) how they will be presented.  I think unique looking awards that represent the topic would be great so I say yes.

Just an idea I'm throwing out there, but if you need something to put the trophies on, why not use a digital mantel? A nice brown trophy stand would give the awards a place to stay and would help them stand out more.

Here's me playing around:
(http://www.bryvis.com/entertainment/other/agsf/website/ags_awards_cup.png)

Figured I'd try for the 'cup' approach.  You could always have a little logo in the center.
Anyone like this, or not?  Don't be afraid to speak up.



Here's your new download button.  It's a flat png without alpha channels.  The corners has the same color gray as you have in the games page where the button is, so it'll fit in better than the one you already have in there.  Also added a white outline to the button since I kinda liked having that white outline around the Download button.
(http://www.bryvis.com/entertainment/other/agsf/website/download_button.png)


And with the same text, size, and colors, here's the download demo button.
(http://www.bryvis.com/entertainment/other/agsf/website/downloaddemo_button.png)
(I used comic sans.. don't slap me anyone. haha)


Anything else? lol

Edit: Ooo.. after looking through the site, noticed I forgot about the help and support icon without the magnifying lens.
Also I had noticed that the main game page really doesn't explain much about AGS games.  If I were new to the site, seeing the game of the month, showcase and award games, I would almost think those were the only games available to me.
All you have really is the side bar to tell you there are other games, but that doesn't show much.  Tabular List is kinda confusing, I've never heard it used before.  Perhaps just Games List, Games Catalog, or something like that.

So what I was mainly suggesting was.. between Pick of the Month   and   Showcase,  how about something like: Play anyone of the 831 AGS games in our database.
Whatever the exact count is. :P  Where database would be the link to that 'tabular list' section.   Something like that.  Also even in the games list, there isn't a:  51-100 out of 831 games.
Knowing how many games are in the database is definitely something I would be throwing around quite a bit on the site as much as possible.

Oh and perhaps removing the >> on the More about this game for Pick of the Month.  The arrows to me seem like it's suggesting a drop down list.

Actually another suggestion.  I was in the games list page and totally didn't know that you could sort games by rating and whatnot.  The field name really doesn't suggest that it's a link.  Either it'll need a link color, or you could slap some Up and Down arrows beside the name, making the arrows the links.  I noticed you made it search ascending or descending, so that's why I think the arrows will work.   Also adding the player rating under the blue cup rating would be cool, i suggest that since you seem to be at the horizontal max already.  Or perhaps just a button at the top that turns on or off the viewing of the player rating.  That way when you sort the 'rating' it also includes the player rating, only when it's viewed.

Also, I have no idea how you plan on doing the search page.  But I was thinking about this.  How about when you enter the search page, it looks just like the games list.  Then the search fields could be at the top of list, one for title and author.  That way it's much less boring than just a blank page with a search field.

Quote from: Pumaman on Sat 09/01/2010 17:14:14
* Award Winners, Picks Of The Month and Tabular List options now work

It was quite ironic how those linked to a page containing the text "Coming Soon", and then there was a "coming soon" link in the side bar.  ::)

The new layout feels somewhat unstructured, especially in the Games area. What about adding some sort of frame around the column?
Here is a very crude mockup:
http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/framemockup.PNG

The links at the top also need attention IMO, they took some time for me to notice. Making them more button-like might work. I'm bad at describing my idea for them in words, but hopefully the image will get the message across.  :)

I actually like that table around the games section content.  Perhaps a little too dark, but definitely a good idea.  It always felt like it was missing something to me.

I definitely agree with the tabs for the menu, it can be annoying/confusing if you don't know what page you're on.

I like your ideas.

edit: Doing a random Luck Dip through the games, I noticed The Art of Theft doesn't have content advisory icons.
Same with: Don the Dweeb in the Dance Dilemma

Hmm, what is this?  ???

http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/Newsite/Games.aspx/Detail/332/Tall_man_from_Trilbys_Notes

Could not find it on the current website.

EDIT: The recent posts in "From the Forums" show threads that are off-limits.

I'm not as happy with this image as I am the rest.  Perhaps later I'll try to remake it to look even closer to the originals by loominous, but for now it works.

(http://www.bryvis.com/entertainment/other/agsf/website/sidebox_titleHelp2.png)

I have no idea how to save the alpha channel with a gif, so I guess you'll have to work your magic on it like usual. :P

Quote from: Pumaman
For now I opted to have the number of votes and percentage displayed in the tooltip when you hover over the player rating cups, do you think this works?

Yes, keeps things tidy. :)

Don't know if you mentioned it before, but I just noticed that the AGS panel comments don't appear on the game pages. Or space hasn't been allocated for them yet.

How does this look?

(http://www.bryvis.com/entertainment/other/agsf/website/games_page_no_image.png)
(sorry Ben, for using featherweight, your image actually works. lol)

I was annoyed with all the games that didn't have an image and seeing that table down-size, looks very bad.  Hopefully this is something that can be done.

edit:  You know what would look much neater, would be a question mark instead of the word 'help' beside the blue cups.  (?)

How about we replace sorry with "We apologize for the Inconvenience". I find it a little more funny, that's all.

Quote from: Laukku on Sat 09/01/2010 22:37:03
Hmm, what is this?  ???

http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/Newsite/Games.aspx/Detail/332/Tall_man_from_Trilbys_Notes

Could not find it on the current website.

EDIT: The recent posts in "From the Forums" show threads that are off-limits.

Due to the way the voting script for the awards works there are some "games" in the DB that are actually the best supporting characters nominations... these are normally hidden!

I was thinking again about the ratings per game.  You have a variable or whatever the checks if a person has already rated a game, correct?  At least I don't believe you can rate more than once, or at least I haven't tried.  It would be cool if you could check for that when a person loads the individual game page, and have it say something like "You haven't rated this game yet, click here to rate this game.".  That would be really nice to have.

One thing I'm happy you've corrected was the image url.  When you were at the current games page (the old one), if you'd click the image it would send you to the enlarged image rather than going to the page for that game.  lol
Every single time I'm in that old games page, I always click the image because I can never seem to remember to click the title in white text.  Yes, I appear to be pretty dense. ;D So thanks for not doing that with the new layout.

Also the new player rating being in cup format is quite wicked.  Thanks for adding that.  
I love seeing the new icons and cups now.  I get a smile going from one random game to the next, just from seeing those graphics.

I took a deep look at the games page ... there has just been something about it that didn't jive with me.  I think it wasn't ... polished ... enough.  Not to dredge it up again with more revisions but we've come so far I felt like some more attention to detail was necessary.

I bounced a few ideas/layouts around and this was the one I settled on:

(http://www.twin-design.com/ags/help/gamespage.png)
- added more "borders" to the content to separate it more and give it a more structured feel
- moved the download option below the screenshot
- moved the filesize/download count into the ratings/content area
- shifted the "welcome" text to a less stand-out area
- loved the "10 years making games" but it was hard to read so I did some work on that as well

I like it, yet I don't.

What happens if the game description is just simply: "It's a pirate game. Yo Ho".  You'll have a large section of white.
Things won't line up all that well with most games.

Some games don't have Genre or Content Advisory, so that would pop the game description up higher, unless it's in a separate table below the game info and picture.

You're also missing the Panel review, which is the second most important description for me.  I read it all the time.
I realize you fixed the '10 years making games' message, but I find it almost harder or maybe as equally as hard to read.  Perhaps a drop shadow instead of an outer glow?

I'll have to look at the other game page before coming up with any other ideas/suggestions.  I'll get back to ya, Darth. :P

Edit:
How does something like this look?
(http://www.bryvis.com/entertainment/other/agsf/website/game_page_darthdesign.png)

If a game doesn't have any awards, your right side would be very empty, or if the game description was very small, the left side would be very empty.
I figured this way, if the game doesn't have any trophies, the "this game was brought to you by" section could go back to 100% width.
Also the player rating on visuals and such seem like an important part of the games rating, so i figured somewhere up high would be best.

I like what you did with the rounded outlines instead of just empty rectangles as CJ had it.  I also really like the Download button being underneath of the game image.  It really stands out.

A definite improvement, Darth. Still looks a bit too busy for my taste, but I realize there's a lot of information to fit in there, so there's no way around it. However, I think perhaps things could be grouped differently:

* The placement of the Download button seems awkward. I would expect it to be closer to the top, and also near where the file size is specified. Putting it right below the headline might also give some (in my opinion) needed spacing between the headline and the screenshot.

*The name in the "This game was brought to you by" box, will that always be a single name (individual or team name)? If so, I think it doesn't need a box of its own (it does need some space once you show the expanded credits, but I think not enough people will do this to make a separate box necessary. If the base information is always a single name, I think it could be moved up below the headline ("by Yada Yada Yada") or along with the genre and release date categories ("Developed by: Yada Yada Yada").

* I also second Ryan's suggestion that the panel review needs a prominent placement.

* The 'What did people think of this game' box may be a bit redundant - the summary could be done as a dropdown from the orange cup rating, and the 'vote' link could also be placed below that.

Quote from: Ryan Timothy on Tue 12/01/2010 04:39:07I realize you fixed the '10 years making games' message, but I find it almost harder or maybe as equally as hard to read.  Perhaps a drop shadow instead of an outer glow?

I keep reading it as '10 year olds making games' :). I'm not too fond of the font, and the yellowish color clashes a bit with the orange on the rest of the site - too bright on the white background. A drop shadow could help I guess, I'm just afraid that it will dominate even more over the words 'Game Studio'.

WHY DOES DARTH RATE NELLY AS ONLY 3 CUPS. I DEMAND A RECOUNT!

Oh, sorry, wrong thread ;)

I'm big on symmetry so I like to keep things "in-line" ... so the way the "what do people think" is off in alignment with the screenshot box jumps out at me!  I think we're moving in the right direction though.  I restructured a bit, moved some stuff around, etc.

(http://www.twin-design.com/ags/help/gamespage2.png)
- cleaned up the "10 years..." part
- moved the "brought to you by" part under the [now] centered game title
- moved the screenshot/download to the left to balance the large white box on the right (originally had the download button above the screenshot(s) but just didn't feel right to me)
- changed "what do people think.." to "public opinion" (wasn't so long) and moved it under the rating/content stuff
- aligned the rest under them

I think this streamlines it a bit and better organizes the [great amount of] information :)

Wow, me likes, a lot. I think the new organization of the screenshot, download links and file information on the left is brilliant, also the wider download button makes it harder to miss. I think the placement of the public opinion box is very fitting too. I think this time around you really managed to organize the info in order of importance.

Two minor aesthetic issues:

1) The yellow of the "Celebrating 10 Years of Game Making" banner still irks me. If orange doesn't look good I'd at least settle for a more golden finish to it than that the very bright yellow, which in my opinion cheapens the look of the site.

2) I'd much prefer the game title and credits to be left aligned than centered. Centered text, especially as the top item on the page, really disturbs the flow of reading when there's so much other text surrounding it and makes it even harder to identify the text field divisions.

Other than that, awesome work again, Darth. You've really aced this restyling of the AGS website.

I think it looks great, but agree with this:

Quote from: GarageGothic on Tue 12/01/2010 13:34:28
1) The yellow of the "Celebrating 10 Years of Game Making" banner still irks me. If orange doesn't look good I'd at least settle for a more golden finish to it than that the very bright yellow, which in my opinion cheapens the look of the site.

That yellow mixes with the blue in a way that is slightly reminiscent of the colour of bile  :=

One thing I don't like from a user interface standpoint is the find games selection. Tabular list is pretty unhelpful in both wording and function. Perhaps 'categories' would be better, and allow people to list 'all' or by certain selectable criteria.

In addition, having the panel rating cup and not both panel and user cups on the list is a bit pretentious in my opinion. The user rating should not be disregarded at all, as this is many peoples opinions over just one.

One more thing, would it be possible to include a way of 'people who downloaded this also downloaded these...' much like on amazon or something similar. Another possiblility would be 'if you enjoyed this, you may also enjoy...' This would be a cool little feature if it were implemented.

But I love the design. Very swish.

How about placing the public opinion percentages as a tooltip when you mouseover the player score?  They're a part of the player score, anyway.

That would leave that public opinion area perfect for listing any/all rewards as a series of same-size graphics.  And how about restructuring the 'play games' frame to be horizontal rather than vertical and having it either above (or below) the game entry?  Right now there's a big chunk of wasted vertical space there that could be avoided by doing this and also give you more room to align the different game page elements.

As for reserving the "public opinion" area for awards, keep in mind that the majority of games don't have a single award, and most of those who do only a single nomination/award.

Quote from: GarageGothic on Tue 12/01/2010 13:34:281) The yellow of the "Celebrating 10 Years of Game Making" banner still irks me. If orange doesn't look good I'd at least settle for a more golden finish to it than that the very bright yellow, which in my opinion cheapens the look of the site.

Quote from: Ben304 on Tue 12/01/2010 13:40:42That yellow mixes with the blue in a way that is slightly reminiscent of the colour of bile

Yeah ... I struggled with that a bit.  To be honest I don't really like it overlapping like that anyway.  I'll mess around with it a bit more this evening (at work right now and the development file is on my laptop at home)  There's plenty of room up there to do something a little more ... catchy ... with it I think.

Quote from: GarageGothic on Tue 12/01/2010 13:34:282) I'd much prefer the game title and credits to be left aligned than centered. Centered text, especially as the top item on the page, really disturbs the flow of reading when there's so much other text surrounding it and makes it even harder to identify the text field divisions.

I'm glad you said that!  I originally kept it left-aligned and was going back and forth on it.  I ended on this to try and tie in the centered logo/nav up above it but you're right.  I think it's better suited to the left.  As with the above, I'll tweak it tonight!

Darth, I believe you've done it.

I disagree that the public opinion should be hidden.  It's the only thing that tells you what to expect in the game, other than the cup scores, and the review.  I think it should stay visible like that.  Just as long as whoever makes it in web format makes it so that if the content advisory or whatever isn't visible on some games, that the public opinion always stays aligned to the bottom of the screenshot frame.

The only thing that needs to be changed, is the text visibility of the "Download This Game" button.  It has very tiny spacing and tiny holes/gaps in the letters themselves.  It needs a different font, and possibly a darker blue drop shadow.

The total downloads perhaps would be best if it was written in a sentence without the bold number count.  Like: "Downloaded 19,670 times."  Because having it in the same format as the size of the file is really distracting.  Makes it seem like the download count matters for something.

Anyway, this layout is great.

Edit:
Hopefully the "See the people on the team and other games they've worked on" will pop up a small window instead of doing the drop down.  Otherwise it would destroy the layout in that position.

This looks really nice, Darth!

I think the best way to do the credits would be to just put the main name below the title, like so:

Nelly Cootalot: Spoonbeaks Ahoy!
by Alasdair Beckett

And then have the more complete credits further down, like in Ryan's edit, but expanded from the start.

Also, why does it need to say "Celebrating 10 years of Game Making" anyway? Doesn't really seem like something anyone else would care about, and it's hardly the most compelling "selling point" for AGS. But the logo is just a placeholder anyway, right?

What I am totally missing is an about page. If a new user comes to the site he is on the first page confronted with pictures of the engine and game screenshots but nowhere is written "AGS is an engine for adventure games". There should be quick access to some kind of faq what this site is actually about.

But it says it right on the front page?

Quote
(http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/newsite/Content/images/title_makegames.png)
Think you've got what it takes?

Adventure Game Studio provides the tools to make your own adventure, for free! Bring your story and artwork and slot it in, and let AGS do the rest.

AGS provides everything you need from within one easy-to-use application. Create, test and debug your game, all in one place. Why wait? Get cracking on your first game now!

Oh, ok, so I was probably referring to some old version of the front page. Hard to keep up to date with all the progress. Keep up the good work!

Quote from: Snarky on Tue 12/01/2010 18:03:39Also, why does it need to say "Celebrating 10 years of Game Making" anyway? Doesn't really seem like something anyone else would care about, and it's hardly the most compelling "selling point" for AGS. But the logo is just a placeholder anyway, right?

I think it's nice to have something that says "celebrating 10 years" but maybe not so prominent?  Just not attached to the logo like that.  I have an idea I'll mock-up later tonight.

As for the logo ... I was kind of hoping that this wasn't the final, FINAL version.  I was never really crazy about the character sticking off the side of it.  I don't dislike the character, just personal preference I'd like just the blue cup next to the logo.  ProgZ, do you have a version of your cup (larger) that is used in the ratings?

I don't dislike the font of the logo but between the logo, the sub-logo, the headers, the nav, the buttons, and the site content/links we're starting to get a little font-crazy with this.  I'm probably one of a very small percentage that would be bothered by this though :P

Quote from: Darth Mandarb on Tue 12/01/2010 19:23:48
ProgZ, do you have a version of your cup (larger) that is used in the ratings?

(http://i485.photobucket.com/albums/rr218/ProgZmax/bcupbig.gif)
This is the biggest one that progz had made.

Now are you talking about this pixel art cup?  Or the one that I made by tweaking progz pixel art cup?
Because the size that is there for the shiny blue cup ratings is the biggest I made.  I could possibly resize it if that is what you were asking for (I keep all my photoshop layered files, in case anyone needs them, especially CJ).

(http://www.twin-design.com/ags/help/gamespage3.png)

Not thrilled with the blue cup being used in the logo ... I remember loom's version from the old thread that I REALLY liked where it was a silhouette cup that would fit perfectly with this design/layout but dig as I might I was unable to find it in my archives.

But something like that would be incredible sitting next to this logo.

This one? (From an old edit I did of one of loominous's designs.)

(http://home.comcast.net/~snarkibartfast/images3/loominousdesign_snarkyedits01.jpg)

I like where you tossed the team names drop down.  I guess it seems fitting since after all it is a part of game description, in a way.
It would be really cool if CJ could make it expand And collapse, instead of it being only one way.  But I've never done anything like that on a website so I'm really not certain how hard it is to create.

I tried just now to see what it looks like with the screenshot on the right instead of the left, and I totally see why you have it on the left instead. lol  The larger white box around it really doesn't work well on the right. :P

If the "You haven't rated this game" warning can't work for some odd reason, I may cry. (joking)  :P  In all seriousness though, it's definitely a feature I would find very convenient to have.

Anyway, looks good.

I dont like the inconsistency in the fonts. Can it please have the fonts in this order: Verdana, Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif? And ditch all other fonts (including the serif fonts in the headings) except for the main title "Adventure Game Studio"

Quote from: cosmicr on Wed 13/01/2010 04:00:18I dont like the inconsistency in the fonts. Can it please have the fonts in this order: Verdana, Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif? And ditch all other fonts

This was what I was referring to a few posts ago.  In my latest edit (below) I unified the font selection a bit more.  I made the headers, "10 years", buttons and navigation the same and all site text is Verdana (those that were editable in my file).

Snarky - that was the one I was referring to.  I seem to recall a bigger version, but that will do for now.  Thanks!

(http://www.twin-design.com/ags/help/gamespage4.png)

Quote from: Ryan Timothy on Wed 13/01/2010 03:51:12It would be really cool if CJ could make it expand And collapse, instead of it being only one way.  But I've never done anything like that on a website so I'm really not certain how hard it is to create.

It's a very simple thing to accomplish with a dab of HTML and a drop or two of javascript ;)

Very very awesome look, great job Darth!

Nothing says we're NOT celebrating 10 years like that statement & title area though... Only the graphic someone made of lots of little retro looking AGS characters really said to me that we've been at this for 10 years and something has come out of it and that we're celebrating it. I always like a little bit more in these days of internet simplicity. The banner with  := popping out was good, and yes does culminate the 2002 period of our lives/success of the engine onto the website. The cups and symbols are great, it's like the whole thing has gone up a notch. But the title area? If it doesn't feature AGS games, it's not exactly AGS is it :-\ Currently all page headers on the website and forums feature nice randomizing images of AGS games - and it seems the new layout is deleting that?

Valid point(s) ...

Perhaps we could incorporate all those little characters on/around the "Celebrating 10 Years" part?  That would liven it up a bit up there I think.  And make it feel more festive!  Does anybody have that image with all the little characters?

Quote from: Darth Mandarb on Wed 13/01/2010 15:40:48
Valid point(s) ...

Perhaps we could incorporate all those little characters on/around the "Celebrating 10 Years" part?  That would liven it up a bit up there I think.  And make it feel more festive!  Does anybody have that image with all the little characters?

I think we had a couple. Didn't ProgZ draw a bunch of little toon versions of the characters all lounging around the logo?

I also had character sprites (taken directly from game screenshots) milling about on a very early version (before we settled on this overall design). It's not on this computer, I'll have a look at my other one.

Is there any way to look files up on the AGS file upload space (http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/upload/upload.html)? That's probably where it was hosted.

I still think we should get the "everyday" version of the design down before we worry too much about the special anniversary flourishes, but since you're doing all the work, whatever you think is most fun.  :)

Yes, but oddly enough people complained that it looked retro...as if 99% of the games made with AGS aren't retro! :)

I don't see why the title logo can't cycle between a few fancy designs, though.

Looks awesome. Just not sure about the title. I think it might be the font or perhaps it's too simple for how rich the rest of the page is.

Quote from: ProgZmax on Wed 13/01/2010 19:20:00Yes, but oddly enough people complained that it looked retro...as if 99% of the games made with AGS aren't retro! :)
I don't see why the title logo can't cycle between a few fancy designs, though.

I tend to feel that a logo should be something that remains constant to establish a recognizable "brand".

I have to admit, though, that I tend to think of web-pages as a business and try to avoid the things that would make a visitor go, "meh, this looks silly" and leave the site (which I worry about with a bunch of characters that a new user most likely wouldn't recognize floating around the software's logo).  However, as AGS is not a business and isn't hurt by lack of new users I suppose it's not a big deal but I'm still not wild about the idea.  :/

I was particularly fond of the design where the characters were standing on the line to the right of the nav though... brings in that "whimsy" but left the logo alone.

Quote from: magintz on Wed 13/01/2010 21:25:36Looks awesome. Just not sure about the title. I think it might be the font or perhaps it's too simple for how rich the rest of the page is.

I thought that font was final/chosen but I'd be open to a change on it.

edit - was playin' around with an idea
(http://www.twin-design.com/ags/help/gamespage5.png)

I'm still not happy with the page. You've done a good job darth, but my feelings are;
- the whole page feels washed out and pale. There's no stand out colours - even the logo doesnt stand out.
- There's too much text on the page - its all too much to take in at once. A suggestion would be to lose the 'play games' side panel for a start
- make it a more graphical and iconised layout - the ratings and content advisory are a great start - consider the main links at the top etc, this can still be done whilst conserving bandwidth. the less I have to read the better, for example why do we need a header 'game description', its obvious that that paragraph is the description.
- consistency in the fonts
- the colours again really bother me - I know the blue is a tradition, but if we're adopting a brand and a logo, then there are much 'nicer' blues out there, for example look at this page: https://www.mesh.com/Welcome/default.aspx - that page is also a great example of how to present a lot of information without making the page too busy.
- what is the target screen resolution?
- something about it just doesnt make it feel very '2010' if you know what I mean.

sorry to sound harsh, but hopefully some of these ideas might be taken on board.

Quote from: Darth Mandarb on Wed 13/01/2010 15:40:48
Does anybody have that image with all the little characters?

The entire 1st page of this thread is covered with all Loominous' character ideas in the header designs and one by Progz.
There are actually some I had completely forgotten about too.

Yeah, the one title I made is on the first or second page.  I didn't really have time to sit and keep pumping out revisions like Loominous but I was operating under the idea that the logo could be dynamic and occasionally cycle in different ones by different people, possibly with a different line-up of characters (or focus) each time.

Could this be of any use?

(http://www.freewebs.com/spentertainment//MISC/oldagsbanner.jpg)

I've had this for years. It's featuring the old forum members.

Ahhh, I didn't realize some of those old revisions were still part of this thread (thought they were all lost to cyberspace when the original thread mysteriously vanished).

I've got another idea for the logo area that I'll whip up later but it's going to look something like this:

(http://marcus.krupa.se/AGS/ags_logo_b002.jpg)
(loom's old version - just the header area I'm referring to)

Darth, I love Larry Vales' popping out from behind!

So will the designs ever be used for the new look site?

We're trying to perfect the most obvious issues that the initial design template had... but you're right, will the site ever get updated? lol

I think it will. Now, on Darth's thingy. I think we should have a vote on the most famous AGS characters and then make them into a new banner? How about that? Perhaps it sounds really stupid. Sorry if it does. I do love the mock-up page of Nelly Cootalot. I find the font to be perfect and very readable. And the overall design feels top notch.

I liked Darth's previous banner (http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/yabb/index.php?topic=37297.msg524916#msg524916) better than the last one.  In particular I liked the font and it's larger size.    To improve that one I would suggest that the banner text be centred.   Then I would suggest moving the "celebrating 10 years" thing, which I also liked, to the right hand side and moving the cup logo to the left hand side.   I would also suggest that we use a larger version of Progz's cup logo or derivative  for the cup logo.   The placement of game characters or sprites could be experimented with to see what works best.  

I would also like to note that the proposed website looks great on my desktop but when I was viewing it on my brother's Dell laptop this summer the backgroud was way too light making everything barely readable.  I don't know if anyone else experienced this but if so then perhaps there could be a button or control that enable the background darkness/lightness to be adjusted.


It's looking very good gentlemen ;)

[edit]
I would also like to suggest that the banner may look better if it had a 3D border, one of those v groove thingies perhaps?

Quote from: Snake on Thu 14/01/2010 14:17:48
Darth, I love Larry Vales' popping out from behind!

I must say, I think incorporating any AGS character into the logo is a mistake.

The banners in the forums are already quite dated, and no longer reflect the quality and variety of games made with AGS. This is something a new site should avoid by choosing only the best visuals from the wealth of games in the database.

I've never played Larry Vales so the character doesn't mean anything to me, and I suspect that the same may be true for others who are less than hardcore oldies. Even if I'm wrong about that, I suspect newcomers will feel the way I do. The images by Ben and Igor images give a sense of the high-quality games AGS is capable of producing. To a newcomer, Larry Vales is just a bit of a crummy character given undue prominence.

I don't mean to be critical of Darth's sterling work, but I think Larry's inclusion should be reconsidered.

The cast of characters is a much better way of indicating the variety of games produced with AGS. Though it does draw attention to a preoccupation with red-haired characters. Long live the gingers!

EDIT: Then I'm with you Darth. Down with Larry! Smug little guy lording his cup over me and grinning.

haha I'm an advocate against the characters on/around the "adventure game studio" text.  I think it should just be the text and maybe a blue cup (in some variety).  I removed larry in most of edits, my last post was re-posting on of loom's designs from way back to show the characters on the right side of the screen!

Quote from: Ali on Thu 14/01/2010 22:05:28
I've never played Larry Vales so the character doesn't mean anything to me, and I suspect that the same may be true for others who are less than hardcore oldies.

I also haven't played Larry Vales, so seeing that guy in the header does nothing for me as well.

I understand why the 'oldies' would want him in there, but to me he looks out of place and doesn't offer any nostalgia or relevance to adventure gaming.

But all the other characters standing up are pretty cool.  Almost a little too identical in pose, but pretty adventureish.

I think a modern looks works better as AGS needs bringing forward into 2010 a little, layout wise.

I agree that Larry should go, sorry Larry!

well since no-one commented on my c+c, I'll have my final say; I dont like it. It has too much of a washed out childrens colouring book feel and definitely doesnt ask the user to take adventure gaming seriously (and I dont mean in a non-fun way). each to their own I guess.

I've also never voted on the color and layout either.  But it took us like half a year to even get where we are now.  So if we start changing colors and everything now, it'll take until 2011 to finally update the old website. :P
And looking at the old, current layout versus the new layout, the sooner I want to get this one up and running.

How about you play the Larry Vales games before saying he's "just a bit of a crummy character" with no "relevance"?
Jeez people. :=

P.S. You really should play them.

I'm an oldie and even I think characters in or around the logo are a bad idea. There are plenty of examples already of what the editor is capable of, why not just leave it at that. The banner is there for branding. Whilst Larry Vales is one of the most recognised ags figures, he doesn't belong in the logo. If anything, Roger would, but even then it's a bad idea.

Quote from: Ali on Thu 14/01/2010 22:05:28I've never played Larry Vales so the character doesn't mean anything to me, and I suspect that the same may be true for others who are less than hardcore oldies. Even if I'm wrong about that, I suspect newcomers will feel the way I do. The images by Ben and Igor images give a sense of the high-quality games AGS is capable of producing. To a newcomer, Larry Vales is just a bit of a crummy character given undue prominence. cup over me and grinning.

Quote from: SteveMcCrea on Fri 15/01/2010 05:47:43How about you play the Larry Vales games before saying he's "just a bit of a crummy character" with no "relevance"?

Aside from my feelings that the "logo" should be just the text and the cup, my problem with including Larry Vales (or other characters) into the logo is that, while he is significant to those of us that have been around awhile, he isn't a face/image that people unfamiliar with AGS will recognize (same with roger, as Lay pointed out).  I think it [the logo] should be something that is appealing to new visitors and Mr. Vales (as memorable and significant as he is to us) doesn't mean anything to the new-comer.

Quote from: cosmicr on Fri 15/01/2010 04:03:13well since no-one commented on my c+c, I'll have my final say; I dont like it. It has too much of a washed out childrens colouring book feel and definitely doesnt ask the user to take adventure gaming seriously (and I dont mean in a non-fun way). each to their own I guess.

Nobody commented because we'd been over [and over, and over, and over] that already many months ago :)

This was the final design/colors decided on after many many rounds of back'n forth.  I completely disagree that it's washed out, it's a totally soothing color palette that compliments the "image" of AGS to a T.

I also completely disagree that it's not modern looking.  I feel it's very modern and up-to-date while maintaining a little of the throw-back whimsy that is AGS.

There are only three fonts being used (and the third is only in the logo) and I had, a few pages back, commented on that (and corrected it).

So unless CJ throws a lightning bolt from atop Mt. AGS and decrees a[nother] overhaul I think we need to stick with this because, like Ryan Timothy said:

Quote from: Ryan Timothy on Fri 15/01/2010 04:16:38So if we start changing colors and everything now, it'll take until 2011 to finally update the old website

I think every letter should be followed by  :=

Here were some ideas I was tossin' about in my head:

(http://www.twin-design.com/ags/help/logoideas.png)

The last one would require a slight update to the top of the new design (which I think wouldn't look good) but I just wanted to throw it in there.  Also, this is using a [recreated version of] Loom's cup silhouette concept which I just freakin' love but I'm also down with a pixellated cup similar the one progZ made.  I just favor this style so that's why I used it.

The second one is the best. Not too big, and I like the text overlapping the cup.

Quote from: SteveMcCrea on Fri 15/01/2010 05:47:43
How about you play the Larry Vales games before saying he's "just a bit of a crummy character" with no "relevance"?
Jeez people. :=

P.S. You really should play them.

I didn't mean to cause offence, he's evidently a very loveable character with a place in many people's hard drives. I meant that to a newcomer he looked crummy. Newcomers will make judgements about the logo before having a chance to play the game. In visual terms he's far from the most well designed or iconic character the AGS archives have to offer, but I think including any character would be a mistake.

I also see what Ryan means about relevance. Larry's is obviously relevant to AGS, but that relevance is not apparent to an outsider. We don't mean to tread on a treasured episode in the history of AGS!

As a sign of my good intentions, I will use the Larry Vales emoticon for the first time ever:  :=

I like the progress that is being made, but is this really the best way to design a website? If it's all going to so micro-analysed over and over, it won't ever get done! If we just choose one person who volunteers to do it, shows a decent mockup and is willing to do the whole thing?

Otherwise we will be waiting a further 6 months.

Quote from: Ali on Fri 15/01/2010 21:01:07
We don't mean to tread on a treasured episode in the history of AGS!

Relegating him to history doesn't sound like a promise to play the games.

P.S. You really should play them.

I actually agree that having Larry Vales on the logo is a bit too obscure for all but those of us who may actually remember his adventures.

If we're talking ancient history, why not dig up Rob Blanc and drape his leering decrepit corpse across the logo. Or Pirate Fry.

But then, I also happen to think Roger is in desperate need of a cheap burial. Preferably in an unmarked, pauper's grave.

Sorry to go a little off topic, but I joined the forums over a year before you, LimpingFish. There must be something wrong with me for not having played the AGS classics! I haven't even played Night of the Hermit, or Robert Redford Saves the Day. I have played Snail Quest, though!

Also, if you're forming a Roger death-squad, I'm in.

P.S. I promise to play Larry Vales. I just started Fallout 3 and I haven't paid my taxes yet, so it may not be soon, but I'll play it.

Quote from: Ali on Sat 16/01/2010 01:38:05
Sorry to go a little off topic, but I joined the forums over a year before you, LimpingFish.

Yes, but did you lurk like a dirty bird for over two years before you joined?

I be dirty bird! o/

Larry Vales, Rob Blanc, Robert Redford, Captain Muchly, Pirate Fry, Rode Kill...the AGS equivalent of the apes at the start of 2001: A Space Odyssey. They were our beginning.

...

Still mostly crap, though.

I also be heretic! o/

ON TOPIC: I'm liking the third of Darth's latest logos. I think the overlapping cup is nice, and works better on the right. I'm not a super huge fan of that font, though. I did like to see a version with this font...

(http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/Newsite/Content/images/bannerNew10th.png)

I, too, prefer the cup on the right side ... for some reason it just fits for me. 

Here is some more ideas with the old/new font:
(http://www.twin-design.com/ags/help/logoideas2.png)

I like the bottom one the best.  What do you think about painting over it with some highlights and lowlights to give it some more depth and pizzazz?

All of those are much better, good job! :)

The last one is the best, I have to agree. I also agree with not having  := on the logo. He means absolutely sod all to me (whether this be morally acceptable or not doesn't matter!  ;D).

Completely abandoning Larry and Roger and stuff makes me sad.

Why not use it in some places, and then have a little "What's up with the goofy-head guy all over the site?" question in some FAQ or About or maybe even the main page?

Quote from: RickJ on Sat 16/01/2010 09:46:05I like the bottom one the best.  What do you think about painting over it with some highlights and lowlights to give it some more depth and pizzazz?

It has a slight bevel/emboss on it ... perhaps make it a tad stronger and more noticable?

Quote from: Babar on Sat 16/01/2010 12:59:49Why not use it in some places, and then have a little "What's up with the goofy-head guy all over the site?" question in some FAQ or About or maybe even the main page?

I've said it before, I'm not opposed to putting something in the header area that contains AGS history/relevance.  I just don't like it being in/around the logo!  There's space up there for many things.  I just don't feel a "banner" as the site/forums have now will work in the new design but there are many other alternative solutions we could try!

Quote from: Zooty on Fri 15/01/2010 23:35:13I like the progress that is being made, but is this really the best way to design a website? If it's all going to so micro-analysed over and over, it won't ever get done! If we just choose one person who volunteers to do it, shows a decent mockup and is willing to do the whole thing?

Yeah ... it's odd because, on a business level, I'd refuse to work like this (with so much input that the process takes months).  But I am enjoying this ...  I think we're really hammering down what it needs to make it primo for AGS.  However I do agree that, at some point, we just need to say enough is enough and go with something or we'll just keep battin' around new and improved ideas!  If there's one thing I've learnt it's that after you've looked at something for a few months it starts to feel old to you and you get the urge to improve even if it doesn't need it!

People don't create and distribute AGS games, nor create and update an AGS Wiki if the intention is that everything we do in AGS history should be forgotten the next day. Saying Larry Vales holds no relevance can really only apply if you're either new here as of yesterday or you simply use AGS for yourself and don't really care about what becomes of it and other people's work...which seems pretty nasty. Abraham Lincoln is dead and has been for long enough but he's still remembered and pictured in modern stuff. Still, this community has always liked it like that; forget the old, start with the new. I'm not going to keep up this debate about having AGS symbolism in the logo but I have to say I'm dissapointed in those who seem to think relating the creations of the product to the product isn't "right" for the website. But as Darth suggests, hopefully an area up the top there can have some AGS characters.

Larry Vales is one character from one old game out of literally thousands. I've been around here for six years and I have frankly no idea who he is or why he's particularly significant. And, like people have said, he looks pretty cruddy, he's not a particularly appealing mascot, and the art style clashes quite hard with the new site design. And as for tradition, well, he's not in the site banner now!

I absolutely think we should highlight various AGS games, new and old, throughout the website. The proposed design does a pretty good job of that, I think. Integrating some old character into the logo isn't necessary.

The design process isn't ideal, but in a more professional situation you'd preferably sit down with the client and collect requirements and design goals in advance, which we haven't been able to. Besides, you can cover things a lot more efficiently in a face-to-face meeting than on an online discussion forum, so people could provide this amount of input over just a week or two. I've been working on some application projects recently where we design a UI with an outside contractor, and we go through about a dozen iterations of the visual design from first mockups to final prototype, most of them over 2-3 weeks. And that's after we've locked down the information architecture and feature requirements, and sketched out some wireframe ideas.

Darth, is there any chance you could switch out the S and maybe the v to some other, similar font? Something from the Hobo font family (http://www.abstractfonts.com/search/?q=hobo) might be a good match, and it provides better shapes for those particular letters, in my opinion. I really hate the lack of curve in the S, and don't much care for the kink in the v.

Snarky - excellent suggestion!  I love the Hobo font(s).

Tried a few differing styles here:
(http://www.twin-design.com/ags/help/logoideas3.png)
1. flat
2. slight bevel
3. same as 2, but softened
4. subtle drop-shadow
5. more dynamically colored

I, lately, am lovin' the simple/flat look (like #1 or #4) but this is just my personal preferences.  I like the look of the last one, but it causes a clash with the simple shape of the cup I think.

I really like the second one from the bottom (I also quite liked the bottom example in your previous post, though the 'S' reminded me too much of The Sims logo, this new font is very pleasant to look at).

I also totally agree with Snarky in regards to Larry Vales. I did play the games, long time ago, before I even knew about AGS. But while they were decent games and a good example of what could be done with the engine at the time, I never really understood the iconic status of the character. Why not Jake McUrk or Rob Blanc? (Must be the sideburns, right?). But I DO like the idea of a small (and changing) gallery of characters standing on the side to add a bit of color and whimsy to page.

How about something less rounded?  Here's a quick attempt:

(http://www.bryvis.com/entertainment/other/agsf/website/ags_header.png)
(Warning: It might be slightly washed out compared to the rest of the stuff on the site ;))

I prefer Ryans font, the other looks too soft and child like

(http://www.twin-design.com/ags/help/logoideas2.png)

Number three seems like a winner to me. I can see Snarky's point with the v, but the I quite like the S. The slight drop-shadowy look to number four is nice too, but I agree that flat might be the way to go. 

I agree with LimpingFish. I don't like all the shadows and stuff on Ryan's edit...

I also think the 2nd from the bottom, the flat colored text by darth, in  image limpingfish had posted is also the best one.
I was mainly just playing around. :)  But I definitely hate the cartoony text of Hobo.

Well, how about something like this?

(http://home.comcast.net/~snarkibartfast/images3/logoidea-mockup.png)

Essentially just replacing the v and S with the Hobo glyph alternatives. I had to fake it since I didn't have the other font Darth has been using; it would look cleaner if you did it properly.

Jesus Christ. Larry Vales is one of many popular characters. Agreed he's maybe a little out of date but then that's effectively saying Nelly Cootalot or Trilby are not noted characters of the AGS scene despite the fact they won recent awards. And any others. To me it's like assuming Theme Park was never part of Bullfrog's list of games. If you come here and can't think of ONE AGS character, sorry, you're just a forum douche who just wants to be heard and doesn't give a shit about all the rest. Nah, this pisses me the fuck off. Now you've replaced the blue cup with "a cup". Sorry, why? If you don't want the things AGS has created in the logo why have a cup that holds barely any significance to the dominant blue cup figure? But as I said, I'll leave it there. Alright, maybe one more pissed up comment...

If you won't have any AGS characters why will you have SSH's image? I'm the only fucker that ever seems to rate the articles on that blog, why is that considered such a relation to the community and characters from the game's arent? Like the panel rating, if you choose to allowed this to be discussed publically then I presume you realise it's open to debate and ridicule. And I'll be honest, the current logo is bland and shite, especially considering some of you are artistic geniuses.

Lol true the logo is very boring. The colour scheme and everything just looks washed out and old fashioned imo but like someone said it's taken long enough to decide on colours anyway.

Alright I admit the latest title looks better than the rest. But I'm sorry, the whole "characters aren't important" stuff really gets to me. When you folks have been here 10 years and find that people choose to forget everything you've come to love and appreciate, I hope you put your geek aside and realise they're being douchebags.

Personally I can't really comment because I've been here for just over a year, but I really don't see the need for the characters being in the main design. It just looks kind of unprofessional imho. It doesn't mean they're not important but why not have them somewhere else?

Chill, Mods. No one is saying characters aren't important (except JH, apparently). I think everyone's been supportive of having a few of them standing around in the masthead area, like in ProgZ's version. Could Larry be among them? Sure. The issue is associating one particular character with the logo, essentially saying that "this is the official AGS mascot, from the official AGS game." That becomes an even stranger idea when he doesn't even seem to mean all that much to a significant segment of the community.

Not having Larry in the logo doesn't mean he has to be purged from the memory of those who still cherish him. Like I said before, he's not in the logo now, so why is his omission such a big deal? The game will be in the database, and if there's a "History of AGS" page I'm sure there'll be room for him there. And sorry if it upsets you that I don't care about Larry. But I wasn't here back when he apparently was so important, and I never played the game, so why should I? I'm sure there are things that are important to groups within this community that you don't care particularly about.

SSH's icon is by the column for his blog, which makes sense. Putting SSH up by the logo, on the other hand, would make no sense. That said, I don't think it looks that good either. We're just focusing on another matter right now.

The WIP design we have is a compromise, and I don't think anyone is 100% satisfied with every part of it. If you have a better idea for a logo design, please go ahead and share.

Well to me it stands out as people saying they do not want to be associated with it. And It's not because of a personal connection necessarily if someone said Shifters Box or Just Another Point & Click Adventure weren't worthy or "necessary" (uggh) on the front page I'd have a go. Something reflecting the games needs to be there and the web designer needs some form of self-pride of elitism whatever to choose which AGS related characters fall into the design. Shit, I can't understand why people just don't want to be reminded of the good stuff. No matter how irrelevant or off putting it is - IT'S THE GOOD STUFF thats come out of all this. And IMO that should be reflected instantly to every new web viewer. If I had seen that when I initially searched AGS I would have been en-tranced. Instead, I was barely able to read a thread in Times New Roman. I am chilled Snarky :) I just enjoy this line of debate... The one that questions why people feel there's no need to associate the games with the engine in the banner images. But I'm sorry, I'm trying to avoid discussing it. So please don't feed the me, Snarky :P

Mods, loosen up. First of all, I'm rating some of the posts too! :D

As for characters, I do agree. Is there anyone who hasn't even heard of Lary Vales? At least when I first joined (late 2006) people mentioned him, and I learned to respect his sideburns! It's like we pretend he never existed. What about RON too?

And what the hell does it have to do with professionalism? If you think AGS isn't the tool for professionals you're right, that's why on last years list of top 20 indie adventure games, 14-16 were from AGS. It's not professional for sure. I say you make logo of all AGS characters. Who the hell, doesn't know BJ? Trilby? Nelly? Larry? Fatman? The small guy from Knight Quest I can't recall righ now? I think we should have the logo stand out and then put famous AGS figures.

EDIT: Also on the blog, when I joined writting on it it had 18 followers. And I can name at least 5 articles done within a month with more than 5 votes. So FUCK OFF! THE BLOG IS TEH BEST!
:D

Excellent! You can't rate what you write yourself Jim!!! Anyway, let's* swear loads and make an AGS website!!!!!1!11

*Other people 11!

Quote from: Mods on Sun 17/01/2010 01:21:00
Excellent! You can't rate what you write yourself Jim!!! Anyway, let's* swear loads and make an AGS website!!!!!1!11

*Other people 11!

YEAH, that's the spirit!

PS: Keep Andail off me..he's bount to come.. :D

I think it could go either way. Several ways, even. It could have Larry, another important AGS character, or nobody. I don't have a big, gold plaque on my wall certifying me for web design or marketing, so maybe I'm not even qualified to make this non-statement.

If all else fails, make it shinier.

I'm really sorry if my objection to Larry being in the title has upset some people. I think there should be a place on the site for loved characters, new and old. I agree with what m0ds has to say, except for this point:

Quote from: Mods on Sun 17/01/2010 01:08:27
I can't understand why people just don't want to be reminded of the good stuff. No matter how irrelevant or off putting it is - IT'S THE GOOD STUFF thats come out of all this. And IMO that should be reflected instantly to every new web viewer

If something is off-putting, I really don't think it should be on the front page or the logo.

I joined the forums in 2003 because I wanted to make a game and I needed help and feedback. It was years before I started actually playing AGS games. That's partly because a lot of my favourite AGS adventures came out after I joined, but it's also because it took my a long time to discover which of the older AGS games I was interested in.

To begin with I was very put off by the plurality of simplistic or ripped graphics, forum in-jokes and spoof games in the database. If I hadn't chanced upon Pleurghburg and loved the game in spite of its very basic graphics, I may not have stuck around to play Apprentice or Spooks when they were released.

If were a newcomer, I'd rather be met with appealing imagery that shows off AGS's potential. Then, once I've played some of the more polished games, I'll start to discover the old favourites.

The last thing I'd want to do is get on the wrong side of Steve McCrea, babar and m0ds. That would result in some kind of defacated mutated guano, and I think my arm might get set on fire.

Are you drunk or something, Mods?

If I can decipher any part of the ranting... you... miss the banner images with game screenshots in the new design?

On a completely separate topic, this discussion made me think: Would it be a good idea to put a date on the games in the DB? That way players might be better able to appreciate a game's historic significance.

One of the few times I have to disagree with Mods. :'(

Quote from: Mods on Sun 17/01/2010 01:08:27
If you come here and can't think of ONE AGS character, sorry, you're just a forum douche who just wants to be heard and doesn't give a shit about all the rest.

Quote from: Mods on Sun 17/01/2010 01:08:27
Shit, I can't understand why people just don't want to be reminded of the good stuff.

I don't really give a fiddler's about most of those characters. I wouldn't rate any of those early games anywhere close to my personal AGS favourites, and bestowing them with some sort of elite status simply because they were here first is rubbish. You're just clinging to nostalgia; those games remind you of the birth of the community, and of old comrades long gone. If people stopped mentioning Vales, etc, and just let new users discover the games in the database, they would probably have faded into the mists of AGS history. The same goes for Muchly and RLBAT, though those two are a whole different kind of rubbish nostalgia.

History is important, but it goes by another name..."the past". Document it, sure, but don't dwell on it. As this community changes, and those who joined post 2005 become the majority, they may have a few milestones of their own. Wouldn't it be better for them not to have to bow to old games (and fairly average old games, at that) made by people who are largely irrelevant to their time in the community?

"Phil who?"

EDIT: Actually, he may indeed be drunk. Hooray!

And I agree, "before Nov 2002" is a wee bit vague.

EDIT DEUX: I'm not saying "Erase these games from existence!", I'd just rather see a level of respect that's proportionate to their actual quality and relevance, rather than "wargleargleLARRYVALESwarglearglePHILREEDarglewargleRESPECTargle!" :)

Quote from: Snarky on Sun 17/01/2010 00:59:32
Chill, Mods. No one is saying characters aren't important (except JH, apparently).

Quote from: J.H on Sun 17/01/2010 00:44:22
Personally I can't really comment because I've been here for just over a year, but I really don't see the need for the characters being in the main design. It just looks kind of unprofessional imho. It doesn't mean they're not important but why not have them somewhere else?

??? Don't understand where you got that from to be honest?

I'm not sure if any of the hostility was directed at me (and if so then :() but I just felt the need to clarify that I am not opposed to showcasing AGS game characters (new, old, legendary, whatever).  I just don't feel they should be around the logo.

As for the new blue cup logo ... I really thought it was a nice thing!  It felt very fresh while still showing that it was a blue cup.  I felt that for new users it could be "this is modern software and is awesome and smooth" and for those of us that remember the past of the program would still make the connection.

** shrugs **

I certainly wasn't trying to cause problems!

Quote from: J.H on Sun 17/01/2010 02:42:04
??? Don't understand where you got that from to be honest?

It was the "I really don't see the need for the characters being in the main design" bit. I thought you meant they shouldn't go on the page (at least not the main page). Guess I didn't read too carefully. Sorry!

No hostility, just a lot of Sambuca ;) Sorry. I was getting overly defensive about the characters in the logo thing - but that's all! Whatever happens will be fine. Until someone buys me some jaegerbombs..... I totally get your points why it's not such a significant part of the design to some people, I'm not mad at you or anything for that :P I just like quirky web-design over corporate looking stuff which I thought the mini-character logo had. You know I think you've done a great job with the website! The sooner it goes up the better :)

Quote from: Snarky on Sun 17/01/2010 04:43:10

Quote from: J.H on Sun 17/01/2010 02:42:04
??? Don't understand where you got that from to be honest?

It was the "I really don't see the need for the characters being in the main design" bit. I thought you meant they shouldn't go on the page (at least not the main page). Guess I didn't read too carefully. Sorry!

Okay, I was a little teary eyed but I think we can move on lol. No problem I could've worded it better tbh.

Quote from: Mods on Sun 17/01/2010 15:41:46
No hostility, just a lot of Sambuca ;) Sorry. I was getting overly defensive about the characters in the logo thing - but that's all! Whatever happens will be fine. Until someone buys me some jaegerbombs..... I totally get your points why it's not such a significant part of the design to some people, I'm not mad at you or anything for that :P I just like quirky web-design over corporate looking stuff which I thought the mini-character logo had. You know I think you've done a great job with the website! The sooner it goes up the better :)

Your forum rage level does seem to be directly proportional to the quantity of alchohol in your bloodstream....  :=

QuoteChill, Mods. No one is saying characters aren't important (except JH, apparently). I think everyone's been supportive of having a few of them standing around in the masthead area, like in ProgZ's version.

Actually, I think (at least initially), the prevailing opinion at that time was against displaying the characters as I had done, though if that mentality is changed then by all means use my logo as one of many that cycle in all the beloved AGS characters.  

I've said this from the beginning and I'll say it again:  I see absolutely no harm whatsoever in having a dynamic site logo that features different characters and styles.  I've seen several sites do it and I find it quite refreshing to visit and be greeted with a cute or fancy different logo on occasion and it doesn't 'harm' the site any; if anything it will allow more people to contribute rather than a few people determining the look and style for everything.  


I think about the only thing you'd need to do would be set up a set of dimensions and let people get creative.  It wouldn't matter if one or two of the characters reappear in someone else's logo or if the logo didn't have any characters at all since it would rotate like the games banner does.  I'm more about the fun aspect of ags than making the site look like another commercial industry drone, so anything that can lighten up the design is a step in the right direction as far as I'm concerned.

Edit:  Looking back, my logo would need to be edited to remove the version number of ags unless there was a way via css to display a version number in that section of the logo (but then it would have to be in the same place for them all).  Probably easier just to erase it ;>. 

Who's Larry Vales?

[/replybait]

Quote from: Calin Leafshade on Mon 18/01/2010 22:27:15
Who's Larry Vales?

[/replybait]

Get out, or forever be damned to 2-cup hell!! ;)

Quote from: Darth Mandarb on Sat 16/01/2010 03:03:49
I, too, prefer the cup on the right side ... for some reason it just fits for me. 

Agreed... it looks more complete and wholesome. As for the new designs I'm partial to the third and fourth. I think it will be a case of you making a judgement call on which you prefer and whether or not the shadow works.

Quote from: Calin Leafshade on Mon 18/01/2010 22:27:15
Who's Larry Vales?

[/replybait]

I'd like to ask that quite seriously.

A quick search would have saved you from the 2 cup damnation.

http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/games.php?action=search&sterm=larry+vales&submit=Search%21

Id like to just bring up an idea regarding this endeavor.

I can understand wanting the site to be more accessible and perhaps cleaner in its design. It makes AGS easier for people to understand and pick up. It will bring many new developers and most likely the active mass of forum members will increase.

There is a problem in that, bear with me on this.

Now, the current site is not very user-friendly. Meaning that in most chases it takes a bit of determination to get the software and understand how it works. Mostly the site feels dated and the forums are not very highlighted. I read many tutorials before i even knew about the forums and when i found them i didn't really get involved for along time.

I know that all of that sounds like its a problem that has to be fixed, but really, it weeds out the people who might not be serious about it, people looking for a quick way to make a game for instance. As the forums are also slightly difficult to get into it tends to draw the more serious people.

Id like to suggest that the poor design of the site has made the community what it is now, and opening the floodgates might ultimately lower the quality for these forums and the games created.

I couldn't disagree more. It is never a good idea to make things difficult for people. It is just as likely that the site having all the flaws you suggest has filtered out some incredible talent.

Also, your view seems very elitist. Surely we want to encourage people who are struggling to come and get advice and improve?

Its food for thought, im entertaining the idea and ultimately perhaps ill change my mind. Its nothing i feel very strongly about either but i liked the notion and wanted to project it.

It might be considered elitist but really im just saying that there are people attracted to flash like magpies and having a barrier would save it from instant-gratification types.

Its also the idea that the barrier has upped the class for this forum, allot of good people are here but perhaps im wrong there too, perhaps people of a certain type are drawn to the simple notion of creating and playing adventure games. if that is true then barrier or not, nothing will change.

but like i said, its food for thought mainly.

I have an inkling to agree with Darius - but then again, I agree with markbilly. The forums should be given more notification, and encourage visitors and AGSers alike to post. I'm pretty sure there's a large proportion of people who've downloaded AGS but have no idea there's this forum here.

On the other hand, I don't think a free-for-all forum should be encouraged. It's pretty tucked away, so if people take their time then they'll post respectably when they feel like it.

Quote from: Pumaman on Fri 27/03/2009 22:37:25
Ok, so after the previous thread was *ahem* accidentally deleted *ahem*, it's time for a new one.

So, here is the current mockup site:
http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/newsite/Home.aspx
http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/newsite/AGS.aspx
http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/newsite/AGS.aspx/Forums
http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/newsite/News.aspx

Current discussion was mainly about the top banner image and proposals for replacement images.

Current status:
* Need replacement "Help and Support" graphic for the right-hand column on hte About page
* Need replacement "On the forums" image for the right-hand column of the main page, to replace the cogs with something more forum-related
* Need to decide what to put in the right hand pane on the News page

Can I just Report an Error on the site, in the AGS Section, the Link for SCI Studio Should be Removed, this is also the same for the Main AGS Site in Resources, SCI Studio's Website links nowhere now...

I got bored the other day and mocked this up. Its just an idea, not really looking to change the current design but thought someone might like to see it;

(http://easycaptures.com/fs/uploaded/225/thumbs/2487754075_b.jpg) (http://easycaptures.com/2487754075)
View at EasyCaptures.com (http://easycaptures.com/2487754075)

The idea was to remove as much as the superfluous info as possible, whilst making it simple and easy to get to where you want to go. The design was heavily inspired by http://www.getfirefox.com

A first time user will want to know what AGS is, or more specifically download AGS, so the link is right there. If they want to know more, the next two links are 'features' and 'download'.

The 'what is ags' section could also be expanded to include 1 or 2 screenshots floating left and right along with the description if necessary.

Someone familiar will want to see games and screenshots, which is why the games showcase will be presented as a timed delay slide show, which the user can loop through using the arrow buttons each side. Clicking the screenshot of course will bring up the games page for that game.

Also at the top of the page is a direct link to the forums, and the games page.

Lastly, current news is shown in a slightly different format.

I reduced the number of fonts to two - Georgia and Franklin Gothic.  I've also limited the font sizes to the default html 4.01 sizes (ie normal, h1, h2, h3)

Wit the logo I was trying to think about how to make the words represent their meaning. I looked up a lot of old adventure movie posters and the popping out main title with the red-orange gradient was popular (eg indiana jones, back to the future, etc), at the same time the fact that its a 'game studio' cant be ignored so I kept that in focus but with a more 'serious' font (ie with serifs) to show that this is more than just an adventure.

I really struggled to think of a decent backdrop, and was still unhappy with the one I used. I wanted to make the top part a montage of AGS scenes and characters with a blue tinge over them, fading to white, but didnt wanna stuff around too much.

The footer I also wanted to make sure the 'big blue cup' wasnt forgotten, and had the intention of rendering the top of a blue cup in 3d in blender but used the image shown that I found on the web.

My profile seems to you know cause that weird thing. I want to name the both game I'm going to release as Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy and not use an acronym, but you can see that it's hiding the text.

http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/yabb/index.php?action=profile;u=3199

Same happens with Vince. So I'm wondering will this be fixed on the new website? I'd really appreciate it if it was.

Question: Will the forums change format as well?

Quote from: Darth Mandarb on Wed 13/01/2010 02:45:21
(http://www.twin-design.com/ags/help/gamespage3.png)

I really like this mock-up for the Detail page Darth, nice one! I'll see if I can update the test site to match this new design.

While doing some research for pythonic web hosting I popped into the SMF forum site and saw this portal mod that allows integration of forum and website.   Thought it may be of some interest to the folks following this discussion even if it's not appropriate or helpful with respect to the new website.

http://custom.simplemachines.org/mods/index.php?mod=1419

One quick question, will the new design feature perhaps an expandable list of games recently commented on? Checking out new comments is something I do regularly, but only 5 seems a bit limited.

An RSS/Atom feed of all game comments would  be cool. Similarly for PoTM, committee ratings, etc.

In relation to Darth's mock-up
Is there any way that the comments section at the base could be made to like a book whereas you turn the pages to read more comments, just a thought or is that too flash?

also I think that the team involved is being overlooked here, I kinda dont like the fact that the team can only be viewed thru a link ..

Quotealso I think that the team involved is being overlooked here, I kinda dont like the fact that the team can only be viewed thru a link ..

Yes, I agree with that.  I was the one who suggested to CJ to have the names expandable, but I meant for the individual works per name to be collapsed instead of all of them.  But I don't know enough about that collapsing and expanding code to know if it's a big pain in the arse to implement.
http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/yabb/index.php?topic=37297.msg521845#msg521845

But in games like that (A tale of two kingdoms) shown there can be a pretty massive list, which is why I understand the entire thing being collapsed.  Argh.  It's a tough call because it can make the vertical height quite large.

You could always limit it to some maximum y size and add a scrollbar so people can look up and down through the contributors.

Quote from: Mods on Thu 04/02/2010 19:36:33
One quick question, will the new design feature perhaps an expandable list of games recently commented on? Checking out new comments is something I do regularly, but only 5 seems a bit limited.

Not sure about this, some people seem to think the Recent Comments shouldn't be featured at all, others want a bigger list. Maybe an expandable list is the answer, as you suggest.

Quotealso I think that the team involved is being overlooked here, I kinda dont like the fact that the team can only be viewed thru a link ..

Well, from the point of view of the casual player coming to the Games page, they probably don't care who made the game, they just care about the game itself. Once they've played the game, if they liked it and want to know more, they can come back and click the expandable link to see who made it.
So I think bearing in mind the target audience of the page, it makes sense this way.

I was thinking the new website should have a section devoted to modules (and plug-ins?).  Currently we have link to the AGSWiki page, whose entries are pretty sparse and lack any information or screenshots.  Or else there are links to the forum posts for each module, but they're all rather technical and you have to read through reams of ancient messages.

It would be nice if there was a nice section in the website that gives a list of each of the modules.  and a short summary of what each module actually does, in laymans terms (perhaps each entry could have a 'more' button which expands the box revealing some more technical information for those interested). And also a screenshot or two of the module in action.

It would also be a nice bonus if you could click on something to switch between an 'alphabetical' list and a 'most recent' list, or something like that.

Also handy would be an option to Add new modules to the list, so that the list doesn't have to me manually updated by one man.  Infact, to keep things tidy, it could just be exactly the same as the games section... this way, modules can be reviewed and commented on in the same way as the games.

Anyway, something worth thinking about perhaps?

Quote from: Stupot on Wed 10/03/2010 15:34:47
I was thinking the new website should have a section devoted to modules (and plug-ins?).  Currently we have link to the AGSWiki page, whose entries are pretty sparse and lack any information or screenshots.  Or else there are links to the forum posts for each module, but they're all rather technical and you have to read through reams of ancient messages.

There used to be a modules/plugins section on the website, but people never kept it up to date so in the end it was removed. I think the Modules & Plugins Forum is a good place to see what modules are available, and allows the info to easily be updated and commented on by people.


Now, I've finally had a bit of time to update the Game Detail page to match Darth's latest mockup, so here it is:
http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/Newsite/Games.aspx/Detail/860/Nelly_Cootalot_Spoonbeaks_Ahoy

I think it looks a lot better like this, any comments?

Not a huge fan of the font used for AGS, or the subtitle sitting ontop of it.... Other than that it's sexy as hell!

Looks great!

The aspect ratio isn't correct for the screenshot though -  sorry to be picky, but if the site is being revamped it'd be nice to get it right! Also, the formatting of the text has changed -  instead of adding a line's gap between "Meeth." and "This" it has removed all the spaces and the lines run together.

I don't know if the "Adventure Game Studio" title is up for comments, but the yellow text is difficult to read and a bit tacky and... I think I've said enough about Larry Vales! This stylish new mockup really shows that the site could benefit from a more classical design.

I like it a lot. I like the new comments layout - especially the highlighted comments for team members.

I'd like to see the AGS panel comments sitting snugly between the "Awards Won" section and the start of the user comments.

Quote from: Ali on Sun 28/03/2010 19:43:00
I don't know if the "Adventure Game Studio" title is up for comments...

I'm not sure if that's the finished logo. Regardless, looking at how the logo works in relation to the overall site design, it seems like it could easily be substituted for a different one.

Looks great.

Quote from: Ali on Sun 28/03/2010 19:43:00
The aspect ratio isn't correct for the screenshot though -  sorry to be picky, but if the site is being revamped it'd be nice to get it right!

I realize you aren't all that keen on storing the screenshots on the site, why not store the thumbnail then?  I just used this guys script to make my buddies photograph website and it works great (I had to tweak it a little to suit my needs though).
http://joedesigns.com/v22/index.php?page=scripts_widgets&id=67
It uses ImageMagick and then stores a cached image on the server.  You can also crop the images (which I would probably avoid), but I'd definitely size it by width (320).

Anyway, figured I'd mention it.

http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/Newsite/Games.aspx/Detail/1165/Hitchhikers_Guide_to_The_Galaxy__Towel_Day

I really like the attention to detail! Really nice job! :D

I think it looks fine.

I have a question/proposal.

There are threads on current forums for offering services/requesting help. I can't be sure about this, because I am not refering to that threads too often, but I feel that many people who actually help others and participate in team projects on more or less regular basis do not post there.

There are also those icons that everyone may toggle to be displayed under their avatars, which show what this member can help others with. But there's no easy way to search for members with certain icon set, or filter members list based on those icons.

Let's say someone wants a help with his game. He may post in "help request" thread and... wait for an uncertain time, hoping that someone talented will look up into that thread, and read his post. He may also try to download games and play them, in order to find out which people make good games/draw good art/write cool music, then seek for those people on forums; that will take even more time.

What I do propose, since you are making new website, is a sort of database, which will allow people to add their info - either describe a project they are trying to start, or inform about their talents in art/music etc. These entries should be editable to make possible keeping information updated. Those with service offers should be able to flag a "currently unavailable" checkbox if they are busy atm or don't want to participate in anything, and their entries will be, say, greyed in the list, or marked elsewise.
It should be also possible to add examples of their work to the entry, thus giving people a chance to look what the member is able to do. By examples I mean separate piece of viewable/listenable work, not the games, because it is not always possible to download and play a game simply to know member's abilities.

Please tell what do you think about this.

Quote from: Crimson Wizard on Sun 04/04/2010 19:08:06
I have a question/proposal.

There are threads on current forums for offering services/requesting help. I can't be sure about this, because I am not refering to that threads too often, but I feel that many people who actually help others and participate in team projects on more or less regular basis do not post there.

There are also those icons that everyone may toggle to be displayed under their avatars, which show what this member can help others with. But there's no easy way to search for members with certain icon set, or filter members list based on those icons.

Let's say someone wants a help with his game. He may post in "help request" thread and... wait for an uncertain time, hoping that someone talented will look up into that thread, and read his post. He may also try to download games and play them, in order to find out which people make good games/draw good art/write cool music, then seek for those people on forums; that will take even more time.

What I do propose, since you are making new website, is a sort of database, which will allow people to add their info - either describe a project they are trying to start, or inform about their talents in art/music etc. These entries should be editable to make possible keeping information updated. Those with service offers should be able to flag a "currently unavailable" checkbox if they are busy atm or don't want to participate in anything, and their entries will be, say, greyed in the list, or marked elsewise.
It should be also possible to add examples of their work to the entry, thus giving people a chance to look what the member is able to do. By examples I mean separate piece of viewable/listenable work, not the games, because it is not always possible to download and play a game simply to know member's abilities.

Please tell what do you think about this.

http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/yabb/index.php?topic=40144.0

zabnat's the man!

I agree with Crimson

As a new guy I'd like to eventually work with some of the frequenters of this forum, I think I have alot to offer but at the moment theres no real way to do this besides sending a PM and some people (me being one of them) is...well alittle uncomfortable with sending pms to stranges about working on a project etc.. SO so kind of project/user database jobby would be great.

Quote from: bicilotti
http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/yabb/index.php?topic=40144.0

zabnat's the man!

Hey! How came I missed that one?  :P

Can this go live, please?

I fear I'll be an OAP by the time it's up.

Quote from: Mods on Sun 04/04/2010 23:06:12
I fear I'll be an OAP by the time it's up.

What's OAP stand for?

Quote from: Crimson Wizard on Mon 05/04/2010 00:16:21

Quote from: Mods on Sun 04/04/2010 23:06:12
I fear I'll be an OAP by the time it's up.

What's OAP stand for?

Old Age Pensioner.

Once A Peadophile

...Only A Pedicure

Orgasmic Anal Probe?

Smells gross.

Quote from: monkey_05_06 on Tue 06/04/2010 04:57:03
Orgasmic Anal Probe?

Smells gross.

It's an acquired flavor...

BACK TO SERIOUS MATTERS:

I agree with Ali about the yellow sub-head it's a bit difficult to read, i'm not sure tacky is the right word but I empathize with the sentiment. Commenting on my original issue: there's nothing WRONG with the font used for "AGS" but I think there's got to be one that aligns better with the feel of the whole layout than the current one. More pressing, however, is finding someway to make that yellow font not remind me of LL Cool J.

I noticed there is a big mess when someone changes their forum name, like myself.  My forum name is actually ryanb84 but it's viewed as Ryan Timothy.  Perhaps the games section on the new site could also view the view-as name instead of the actual name?

I imagine that'll cause more havoc when someone decides to add someone as a team member, but at least it still shows the original name in people's forum profile.  People then won't be left guessing who ryanb84 is when they are viewing the games section (not that I've contributed all that much or made many of my own games lol).

I guess clicking on the name does take you to the profile.. but I still suggest to have the view-as name appear instead.

Quote from: Ryan Timothy on Fri 23/04/2010 00:22:14
I noticed there is a big mess when someone changes their forum name, like myself.  My forum name is actually ryanb84 but it's viewed as Ryan Timothy.  Perhaps the games section on the new site could also view the view-as name instead of the actual name?

I imagine that'll cause more havoc when someone decides to add someone as a team member, but at least it still shows the original name in people's forum profile.  People then won't be left guessing who ryanb84 is when they are viewing the games section (not that I've contributed all that much or made many of my own games lol).

I guess clicking on the name does take you to the profile.. but I still suggest to have the view-as name appear instead.

I'd love to change mine too for a while now, though I just stall it for the reasons mentioned.

Ok, I finally had some time to try and finish this off. So:
http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/Newsite/Home.aspx

the Browse Games bit and the Post Comment have been implemented, so i think the new site is now nearing a state where it could become the new official homepage.

There are still some bits missing (such as Voting on a game which sends you back to the old site) but generally it's now looking good.

any comments?
(I know the download AGS link is broken but will work when the new site moves onto the main URL)

I think its a great new layout  ;D  I particularly like the games search section.
When I click the whats new in 3.2.1 link it takes the viewer to the forum where alot of technical info is. To some this is great but to the average joe (who may never have come across AGS) this may seem a little confusing. Could there not just be a list of the upgrades or limitations of the version.

* Dont know where to post this bit but is someone gonna get rid of A Niggas Revenge 2 ?its broken, offensive and on the first page on the list of games. An outsider who happens to be Afro American could well cause bad press here.

**  There is no add your game link on the games page will this be implemented (or did I miss a memo somewhere)  

Very nice design :)

I like the design, too. It's simple, easy to use and has a cheery quality to it a few of the preliminary designs were kinda lacking in.

I like it! It might be a good idea to open the "Coming Soon" and "Hints and Tips" links in a new window/tab since they navigate away from the main page.

Quote from: Pumaman on Thu 12/04/2012 00:39:39
Ok, I finally had some time to try and finish this off. So:
http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/Newsite/Home.aspx

the Browse Games bit and the Post Comment have been implemented, so i think the new site is now nearing a state where it could become the new official homepage.

There are still some bits missing (such as Voting on a game which sends you back to the old site) but generally it's now looking good.

any comments?
(I know the download AGS link is broken but will work when the new site moves onto the main URL)

Ah, so I managed to guilt you into spending the rest of the night working on this then?  Excellent.

It is nice. The site hierarchy is a little confusing, and I'm not keen on having the navigational items on the RHS, but aesthetically I think it looks a lot nicer.

One thing I noticed as I was trying to nominate games for the AGS Awards with the current site was that it wasn't possible to do a search for a certain category of game (e.g. short game, non-adventure), and then filter or sort it by release date so I could check out the ones from 2011. The new search seems to order results randomly (or by some system I don't understand) instead of alphabetically, but that's hardly an improvement.

So I would like to be able to sort the search results by name, release date, cup rating, etc. It would also be nice to have the ability to switch the results list between the expanded view you get when you do a search, and the condensed view you have for the A-Z list.

While you can't *filter* by release date, you can at least go into the A-Z list then sort by date.  Which with roughly two pages of games released per year isn't too much effort.  Filtering would be a nice touch though, I admit.

Yes, but on the A-Z list you can't see which games belong in which category, so you have to go through every game and check its description.

Also, it's simply confusing to have two completely different ways to list games. If you start by "browsing" (which is really searching), you may never realize that the A-Z list offers completely different features. Ideally the two list styles should be unified, so that the A-Z list appears the same as a universal search of the database, and all the features of both versions are available however you've generated the list of results.

Of course I'm not saying this is a showstopper that has to be fixed before moving to the new design (especially since it's the same in the old version), just one rather important part of the site design I think could and should be improved at some point.

Also, not sure that we're still celebrating 10 years of game making. Maybe could auto-calc that from the date with a bit of PHP :)

*Checks date this topic started*

So, yeah, it's nice. I say go for it.

So, if we need another new design in 2015, we better start working on it now  :=

I like it.  Couple of small niggles though, you may already be aware of:

On the Picks of the Month (http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/Newsite/Games.aspx/PicksOfTheMonth) page, 'Ben304' appears where I'm assuming it should say 'April 2012'.

Also, in the 'showcase box'
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-S65msz5Yv2k/T4bfP3GD8FI/AAAAAAAAAOs/1klaGwLCLrU/s304/nano.png)
The text is obviosuly set to wrap underneath the image, but there isn't enough text to make it look like wrapping. It just looks weird, a random couple of words just hanging there.  Maybe the text could be cut off earlier so that it's guaranteed to tail off before it gets to the bottom of the image.  Further still, I wonder if you could set it so that the mini-description given in this showcase box automatically ignores any breaks between paragraphs that occur in the main game description.  So that the 'Although the...' would automatically be told to follow the full stop after 'nanobots'. If you get what I mean? :-)

I'm a bit of a stickler, but this image...
(http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/Newsite/Content/images/agsScreens.png)
...has 3 screenshots. 2 screenshots are of the same game. Shouldn't all 3 either be of different games or the same game?
Maybe showcasing a commercial AGS game, a freeware AGS game and a non-adventure would work.

I thinks it's a bit odd the way it is.

Other than that, I think it's great and let's release it already!

Great stuff!  :D

A few comments:
1. Is there a way to not show games with broken images on the front page? It kinda ruins the look.
2. When you click on a developer to see other games from him/her, there is no separation between games which the developer is the author of, and games in which he/she contributed to. If no separation, I'd at least put the author's games first. Also I think that the highly rated games should be put first, so that at a quick glance I'd be able to get a taste of that dev's best work.
3. The dev team comments are colored in red. Maybe a different choice of color? The red makes it look like an error.

Quote from: tzachs on Fri 13/04/2012 08:16:49
1. Is there a way to not show games with broken images on the front page? It kinda ruins the look.

Actually with AGS Archives already storing people's images and games, why not integrate the two?

I also agree with changing the color of the red text from anyone who is a developer of that game. Maybe bold and black? I'm not sure.

What is that game? The 2 from the screen shot? I've wanted to play it cause it look kinda cool.

I believe it's a nonexistent game by Loominous just to make a graphic example of how the front page should look.

Wouldn't it be better if the screenshots were of well known ags games? Seeing something like a screenshot of Gemini Rue in the editor on the front page would do wonders for the promotion of the engine. We would need to get permission of course, but something to think about rather than 2/3 shots are of a game that isn't released and will be getting a lot of attention from new visitors to the website.

Also I am so glad that things are picking up again in terms of the next stage for AGS.

Quote from: IndieBoy on Sun 15/04/2012 13:14:02
Seeing something like a screenshot of Gemini Rue in the editor on the front page would do wonders for the promotion of the engine.

I absolutely support that. One commercial game, one well-known freeware game (we have a couple of prolific game-makers, so why not get some use out of that), and at least one of the shared-universe games (RON most likely). That should cover a lot of what AGS has been used for. Alternatively, I heard webpages are almost magical in their ability to be changed: Why not include the Pick-of-the-month as a constantly changing screenie here? PITM tends to be featured on blog sites, so it's cool to find a game, be linked to AGS, and see it there again.

There's a character encoding problem here:
http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/Newsite/Games.aspx/Detail/616/Soviet_Unterzgersdorf

The new design looks really well

Yeah, I noticed that too.  Like, Vince's "∞ bit" comes up as "&#8734; bit".

Quote from: tzachs on Fri 13/04/2012 08:16:49
1. Is there a way to not show games with broken images on the front page? It kinda ruins the look.

Or/And create a default placeholder image.

Quote from: Tartalo on Mon 16/04/2012 10:08:03
There's a character encoding problem here:
http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/Newsite/Games.aspx/Detail/616/Soviet_Unterzgersdorf

Encoding in UTF-8 should do the trick (instead of iso-8859-1)...

The new design looks very good.
Suggestion: On the games page it would be nice to click the screenshots to enlarge them. (like lightbox, highslide, etc.)

Thanks for the feedback!

QuoteWhen I click the whats new in 3.2.1 link it takes the viewer to the forum where alot of technical info is. To some this is great but to the average joe (who may never have come across AGS) this may seem a little confusing. Could there not just be a list of the upgrades or limitations of the version.

Possibly, but I'm not sure that someone who's never come across AGS would be interested in what's new in the latest version -- surely they'd be more interested in the general features of the program. We could do this, but it'd be just one more thing to keep up to date.

Quote* Dont know where to post this bit but is someone gonna get rid of A Niggas Revenge 2 ?its broken, offensive and on the first page on the list of games. An outsider who happens to be Afro American could well cause bad press here.

Looks like that wasn't even a game and was just some offensive spam, so I've deleted it.

Quote** There is no add your game link on the games page will this be implemented (or did I miss a memo somewhere) 

Good point, it needs a link adding to that.

QuoteIt might be a good idea to open the "Coming Soon" and "Hints and Tips" links in a new window/tab since they navigate away from the main page.

That might be a good idea -- but we'd probably then get some people complaining about all the popup windows the site was opening as you browse around, so I'm not sure at the moment.

Quoteit's simply confusing to have two completely different ways to list games. If you start by "browsing" (which is really searching), you may never realize that the A-Z list offers completely different features. Ideally the two list styles should be unified, so that the A-Z list appears the same as a universal search of the database, and all the features of both versions are available however you've generated the list of results.

Thinking about it now, that's a great idea and would make more sense.
However, it's certainly not something to hold up the release for -- might be neat to do that later on as a follow-up feature.

QuoteOn the Picks of the Month page, 'Ben304' appears where I'm assuming it should say 'April 2012'.

good spot, that was just a mistake with the latest pick (nothing to do with the new site) but I've corrected it.

QuoteThe text is obviosuly set to wrap underneath the image, but there isn't enough text to make it look like wrapping. It just looks weird, a random couple of words just hanging there.  Maybe the text could be cut off earlier so that it's guaranteed to tail off before it gets to the bottom of the image.  Further still, I wonder if you could set it so that the mini-description given in this showcase box automatically ignores any breaks between paragraphs that occur in the main game description.  So that the 'Although the...' would automatically be told to follow the full stop after 'nanobots'. If you get what I mean? :-)

thanks, I'll take a look at this!

QuoteI'm a bit of a stickler, but this image...
...has 3 screenshots. 2 screenshots are of the same game. Shouldn't all 3 either be of different games or the same game?
Maybe showcasing a commercial AGS game, a freeware AGS game and a non-adventure would work.

I don't really see the big deal here -- nobody's really going to be inspecting that image in detail, and newcomers to AGS may not recognise any of the games anyway. Still, if someone wants to do a replacement image then we can always swap it out.

Quote1. Is there a way to not show games with broken images on the front page? It kinda ruins the look.

unfortunately at the moment there's no tracking of whether the screenshot image URL is valid or not -- this would be neat to add at some point.

Quote2. When you click on a developer to see other games from him/her, there is no separation between games which the developer is the author of, and games in which he/she contributed to. If no separation, I'd at least put the author's games first. Also I think that the highly rated games should be put first, so that at a quick glance I'd be able to get a taste of that dev's best work.

Nice ideas, would be good to do at some point.

Quote3. The dev team comments are colored in red. Maybe a different choice of color? The red makes it look like an error.

Yeah it does look a bit harsh. I'll take a look at it.

QuoteThere's a character encoding problem here:

Hmm yeah that seems to affect the current site too ... I think the database got restored at some point and the character set was set wrong, so now half of the data is in UTF8 and half of it is in ASCII... to make matters worse it looks like the current website has been saving some strings back to the DB in HTML Entity format. I need to sit down and clean this up at some point.

Might be too much work but I was wonder, for the forums would it ever be possible to give a member the ability to change the color scheme to what ever they wan't or to like some stock colors? It would also be cool if they could change the banner gif thingy to their games pic. It would give the user a little more customization and it'll be something new and different. I'm mean AGS and the forums it self could benefit from a lot of new things like maybe a FB like button. For some reason a lot of people think it's evil but I see it as a way of advertising your works or in some cases there's those times when you see a post and you don't know how to comment on it or maybe the post is just so old. All you have to do is hit the like button and bam.

Ooh very purdy! Good job!

FYI the src url of the arrow up and arrow down links on the A-Z list is wrong, creating a broken image. It is src="/Content/images/arrowup.gif" and should be src="../Content/images/arrowup.gif" (two dots in front to point to the right directory)

Quote from: Insane-Icey on Tue 17/04/2012 18:26:03
Might be too much work but I was wonder, for the forums would it ever be possible to give a member the ability to change the color scheme to what ever they wan't or to like some stock colors? It would also be cool if they could change the banner gif thingy to their games pic. It would give the user a little more customization and it'll be something new and different. I'm mean AGS and the forums it self could benefit from a lot of new things like maybe a FB like button. For some reason a lot of people think it's evil but I see it as a way of advertising your works or in some cases there's those times when you see a post and you don't know how to comment on it or maybe the post is just so old. All you have to do is hit the like button and bam.

Forum themes don't really work like that; you can't just design them on the fly.  Also, people put a lot of time and effort into creating nice designs! We have vague plans to add some more themes eventually, but I don't think it'll ever be as open as you might like.

I'll probably at least update the social media aspects of the site to reflect modern preferences (remove ICQ!).  I'll look at social bookmarking too, assuming it's not too cluttering and annoying.

I see, but Cool beans dude :)

Quote
I'll probably at least update the social media aspects of the site to reflect modern preferences (remove ICQ!).  I'll look at social bookmarking too, assuming it's not too cluttering and annoying.

Please reconsider.  I highly value privacy and don't want to have any part of facebook or be anybody's facebook friend.   I don't even want anybody to "Like" me.  I Really believe we would be much better of without it.

[edit]
Ah! Just realized you were talking about the website and not the forum.  Facebook and their ilk are never the less annoying scumm;  the cyber equivalent of STDs that are best to avoid.

I was actually talking about the forums.  However, if I did this, it would be a small icon that passed you over to Facebook, not integrated login or anything that extreme: no AGS user information would be shared with Facebook.  I'll see what the options are before I even consider it.

Call me dumb, how would integrating FB with the forums work? I.e. what happens as a result?

It is possible to have these like buttons as only images without any link to the social thingy and with a bit of javascript you can activate them and exchange all the information the user wants to has to give to facebook (twitter/pinterest/g+/etc) to recommend stuff to their friends...
So if the images for the buttons are on the AGS servers there is NO privacy invasion unless the user wants it this way and games can be distributed/promoted/spread via social networks which is how a big part of the internet works today.

and I prefer to see who made a game right from the start and without having to click on an extra link to unfold all contributors to a game. Like it is with the old design. This honors the gamemaker(s) even more. Is there any reason to hide them? Would this be possible?

Quote from: selmiak on Wed 18/04/2012 15:02:23
and I prefer to see who made a game right from the start and without having to click on an extra link to unfold all contributors to a game.

Yea, this was the only thing I didn't like.  I prefer to see who worked on the game as a default.  Otherwise the new design is awesome!

But there are some games with like 20 people. I believe that's why it was ever suggested in the first place.

Ok I've made some updates, hopefully most of the character encoding issues should be fixed so let me know of any that are still there.

I've also changed the red colour for team member comments to a more subtle purple and added a link to Add Your Game.

Psst, would the people debating the Facebook stuff please read what I actually said?  There would be no direct integration: Facebook would have no access to AGS's userbase.  It would (if it happens at all) basically just bounce you to Facebook and let you link to interesting forum posts.

even though the games are in 320x200 why not have bigger avatars in the forum? :D

Quote from: selmiak on Wed 18/04/2012 21:47:37
even though the games are in 320x200 why not have bigger avatars in the forum? :D

Way ahead of you.

Quote from: AGA on Wed 18/04/2012 21:24:15
It would (if it happens at all) basically just bounce you to Facebook and let you link to interesting forum posts.

Being able to share interesting threads/posts would be good! :).
I'm all for it!

Peder, there's absolutely nothing stopping you from posting a link to a particular forum post/thread on Facebook, which is all that the requested button/link would be doing anyway.

But you'd have to copy the URL, and type the topic title and everything.  So 20th century!

Quote from: Pumaman on Wed 18/04/2012 20:29:31
hopefully most of the character encoding issues should be fixed so let me know of any that are still there.

These still have issues:
http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/Newsite/Games.aspx/Detail/1436/3
http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/Newsite/Games.aspx/Detail/822/Emma_Rode
http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/Newsite/Games.aspx/Detail/1417/Gear_BladeDX
http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/Newsite/Games.aspx/Detail/724/Indiana_Jones_and_the_Fountain_of_Youth_DEMO
http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/Newsite/Games.aspx/Detail/257/Indiana_Jones_and_the_Fountain_of_Youth_ROLLING_DEMO
http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/Newsite/Games.aspx/Detail/1515/Indiana_Jones_and_the_Passage_of_Saints
http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/Newsite/Games.aspx/Detail/1121/Indiana_Jones_and_the_Temple_of_Spheres

Quote from: Tartalo on Thu 19/04/2012 16:58:48

Quote from: Pumaman on Wed 18/04/2012 20:29:31
hopefully most of the character encoding issues should be fixed so let me know of any that are still there.

These still have issues:
http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/Newsite/Games.aspx/Detail/1436/3
http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/Newsite/Games.aspx/Detail/822/Emma_Rode
http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/Newsite/Games.aspx/Detail/1417/Gear_BladeDX
http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/Newsite/Games.aspx/Detail/724/Indiana_Jones_and_the_Fountain_of_Youth_DEMO
http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/Newsite/Games.aspx/Detail/257/Indiana_Jones_and_the_Fountain_of_Youth_ROLLING_DEMO
http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/Newsite/Games.aspx/Detail/1515/Indiana_Jones_and_the_Passage_of_Saints
http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/Newsite/Games.aspx/Detail/1121/Indiana_Jones_and_the_Temple_of_Spheres

Mods look at all the trouble youv caused  o/

Say no to Facebook integration whats the point...   Look everybody I made something NOW GIVE ME YOUR LIKES ...... IF NOT I WILL BE OFFENDED .... AND NOT AS POPULAR AS I'D DREAMED

Not sure what's going on with the credits for http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/Newsite/Games.aspx/Detail/1303/Eternally_Us (http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/Newsite/Games.aspx/Detail/1303/Eternally_Us)... Calin seems to be listed twice and it says he's worked on 16 games, listing each twice.

I was also wondering if it would be nicer to have the screenshots under screenshots and features on the AGS (http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/Newsite/AGS.aspx) page open in an overlay instead opening in new tabs. Might fit better when things like the feature list expands out onto the same page?

Other than that I really like the new site, great work.

Edit: Also sorry if I missed this, but were game lengths, resolutions and websites intentionally removed from the database entries?

That's not an error. He is listed twice on his profile already for EU.

Also keep going with the FB thing. Forget it about the likes think about the sharing. If someone likes you game then other people can see that that persons likes that game and might even go and at least check out your download page for the game on the new site.

Because if it's about who likes and who doesn't like what then you might a swell remove the rating system. A lot of people could get mad that they might have only 1 cup versus for something they worked hard on versus someone else who may somehow have like 2 or more for a "waste of time".

The whole rearranging would also be a great time to remove "wrong links". My game page lists me as author for two games I did not make, but the usernames also have "ghost" in them*. I bet there are more cases.

* I don't mind though, both are cool games!

I'm with Icey, 'liking' doesn't have to be a way for people to feel more popular and validated, although it's true people do treat it that way.  It's more a way of promoting what you enjoy and getting other people to see it.  Big brands pay a lot of money utilising the 'like' system. Every time someone 'likes' or share something from AGS on Facebook, it can only be good for AGS, so why not make that easier by implementing it on the site?

I agree with Stupot.

I'm not a huge fan of facebook, twitter et al, but I think the forums/database should make promoting games and sharing updates as easy as possible. The most prominent AGS (and ex-AGS) developers are already using social networking to their advantage.

I think the concerns of the anti-facebook folk are legitimate, but as long as the integration is unobtrusive I don't see any reason to swim against the current.

Quote from: Ali on Sun 22/04/2012 12:03:28
I agree with Stupot.

I am absolutely neutral on the subject- I see some benefits in it though and would like to know more. Anyone savvy care to enlighten an old dog? How DOES this whole liking, twittering, socializing work? How would it be implemented here? I know I could just google it up but I like to get feedback from people who are already USING the stuff.

(http://oi42.tinypic.com/eiqb75.jpg)

I make my games then my a download page on the AGS servers. Next I upload them to a storage server like media fire so people can download the game. People who play the game may end up liking it and post about it on a social network site(Third way of sharing). The AGS site will have the Like or share, tweet, +1 buttons so if people like the game they can share with everyone(Second way of sharing).

I could give out news updates of the game while it's under development or even after it's finished(First way of sharing)(Hence why the second way of sharing works).

The good news will spread all over the internet thus making people aware of your cool and awesome game you just made. This is a very beneficial way for an indie dev to get out there. Cause it's hard when your stuck in the shadows of the big time game dev companies. Everyone deserves a voice, you just gotta find a way to be heard. 

Quote from: Ghost on Sun 22/04/2012 19:54:38
I am absolutely neutral on the subject- I see some benefits in it though and would like to know more. Anyone savvy care to enlighten an old dog? How DOES this whole liking, twittering, socializing work? How would it be implemented here? I know I could just google it up but I like to get feedback from people who are already USING the stuff.

It is simply buttons connected to the page they are on that when clicked creates a post/tweet that links to the page.
If you haven't logged in to the service the button is tied to (facebook, google+, twitter) it will first ask you to login then you can either post the default post (generated by the code depending on the content of the page) or customize it.

And let's imagine a non-AGSer or 'real person' has downloaded a game from the database and really enjoyed it. They're not terribly likely to copy the URL and paste it into facebook to recommend it to their friends. But if there's a button to share on twitter or like on facebook, they're that bit more likely to spread the word.

Bottom line is, if you don't have a Facebook account, don't worry about it. You're not going to be automatically signed up or something. It won't affect you in the slightest.

Okay, so I have this enacted on my test version of the upgraded forums (which should go live fairly soon).  There are basically two buttons next to the topic title on every page, one for Twitter, one for Facebook.  When clicked, these bounce you to the relevant page, with options to share (see http://custom.simplemachines.org/mods/index.php?mod=2827 for examples).  I've also added most of the modern social media site links to people's profiles (http://custom.simplemachines.org/mods/index.php?mod=3304).  All very subtle and unobtrusive, and none of which involves the forums sharing people's data.

Quote from: Hudders on Sun 22/04/2012 22:52:34
Bottom line is, if you don't have a Facebook account, don't worry about it. You're not going to be automatically signed up or something. It won't affect you in the slightest.

Well, it can affect you slightly. If the Facebook like button is implemented directly, stuff from FB is loaded that can and will track any user, FB member or not, in various ways. While it's most likely not influencing anyone's life negatively if FB knows she was on the AGS forums, the best way would probably be a two-click button, where you click once to activate the FB like-button which loads FB stuff, and click again to actually like the site/game/thread/post. A German IT news site has made such a thing (http://news.softpedia.com/news/German-Sites-Implement-2-Click-Facebook-Like-Button-to-Get-Around-Privacy-Issue-220489.shtml), don't know if it's easy to get it in the forums though.

Quote from: TomatoesInTheHead on Mon 23/04/2012 13:38:52
Well, it can affect you slightly. If the Facebook like button is implemented directly, stuff from FB is loaded that can and will track any user, FB member or not, in various ways.

If you are going to worry about such things then you should really just consider to stop using the internet.
If you have a google account everything you do is most probably already tracked anyway and it would not surprise me if even browser companies do so too.. It seems that in this day and age everyone is tracking everything you do online... 

Quote from: AGA on Sun 22/04/2012 22:54:27
Okay, so I have this [facebook integration] enacted on my test version of the upgraded forums

I understood that people wanted this in the game page rather than the forum.

Here's a thought. Would it be possible to check boxes for which social buttons you vidible to people who come to your game download page?

What about just making this optional in the profile "Look and Layout Preferences"? I don't want facebook buttons but I don't mind if other people have them.

QuoteThese still have issues:
http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/Newsite/Games.aspx/Detail/1436/3
http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/Newsite/Games.aspx/Detail/822/Emma_Rode
http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/Newsite/Games.aspx/Detail/1417/Gear_BladeDX
http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/Newsite/Games.aspx/Detail/724/Indiana_Jones_and_the_Fountain_of_Youth_DEMO
http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/Newsite/Games.aspx/Detail/257/Indiana_Jones_and_the_Fountain_of_Youth_ROLLING_DEMO
http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/Newsite/Games.aspx/Detail/1515/Indiana_Jones_and_the_Passage_of_Saints
http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/Newsite/Games.aspx/Detail/1121/Indiana_Jones_and_the_Temple_of_Spheres

These now look ok to me, if there's anything wrong that I haven't spotted please let me know what it is.

QuoteNot sure what's going on with the credits for http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/Newsite/Games.aspx/Detail/1303/Eternally_Us... Calin seems to be listed twice and it says he's worked on 16 games, listing each twice.

He had been entered twice, I've now corrected it.

QuoteThe whole rearranging would also be a great time to remove "wrong links". My game page lists me as author for two games I did not make, but the usernames also have "ghost" in them*. I bet there are more cases.

This shouldn't happen on the new site, as it only matches based on forum names and doesn't do the substring search that the old site does.

I agree that a facebook "like" button would be good on the Games Detail pages, is it easy to add one?

I've uploaded an update of the new site; you should now see a link to edit your game when viewing a game that is yours. Can you guys test this and check that this message only appears for your own games?

Just my two cents, but I'd rather not see Facebook and Twitter integration. I get enough of that on every other website, and it's nice that www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk is the only site that doesn't trigger a third-party script warning in NoScript.

Personally, I can't stand Facebook. The less avenues people have to get a hold of me, the better.

I don't quite understand how it affects you as a person browsing the games page? It's there for those who want to socially advertise their own games or one that they enjoy.

I don't overly like Facebook myself but I don't understand the negativity towards it being added to the games database. If it'll help attract more gamers or developers to the AGS scene, then I'm all for it.

I'm not a big fan of FB and personally I think twitter is retarded but if I have any chance to get my games out their and show'em off to more people through people then I would go with the whole social sharing.

Spoiler

One problem with AGS anyways is that it's...well.."out of date". What I mean is that it's lacking a lot of modern thing like for ex, the ability to post youtube videos into forums.
I've been in plenty of forums and noticed they could do but why not AGS? Most people around AGS that has been here for way long I have just don't seem to like any of the new stuff and so rather keep the page stuck the year 2000 or something not to far from that. Just give it a chance maybe it my turn out good or bad.

[close]

  Good thing you set spoiler text, as I want to be surprised when I watch "AGS Website: The Movie".

  I think the Facebook and other social media links are fine as long as they are (as it sounds from the explanations in this thread) strictly optional and don't result in icon clutter on the page.

Quote from: Insane-Icey on Tue 24/04/2012 02:49:57
One problem with AGS anyways is that it's...well.."out of date". What I mean is that it's lacking a lot of modern thing like for ex, the ability to post youtube videos into forums.
I've been in plenty of forums and noticed they could do but why not AGS? Most people around AGS that has been here for way long I have just don't seem to like any of the new stuff and so rather keep the page stuck the year 2000 or something not to far from that. Just give it a chance maybe it my turn out good or bad.

We don't like annoying things, that's why we don't support embedding videos.

Quote from: Pumaman on Tue 24/04/2012 00:14:02
I agree that a facebook "like" button would be good on the Games Detail pages, is it easy to add one?

Likes are a bit iffy though, since they share information with Facebook (and vice versa?) that you might not want.  Sharing (http://developers.facebook.com/docs/share/) probably has fewer negative connotations: it shows the Facebook world a game / post / whatever, without needing to report back to the forums just how many people also enjoy that thing.

Facebook developers site (http://developers.facebook.com/docs/reference/plugins/like/).

Quote from: Pumaman on Tue 24/04/2012 00:14:02

QuoteThese still have issues:
http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/Newsite/Games.aspx/Detail/1436/3
http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/Newsite/Games.aspx/Detail/822/Emma_Rode
http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/Newsite/Games.aspx/Detail/1417/Gear_BladeDX
http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/Newsite/Games.aspx/Detail/724/Indiana_Jones_and_the_Fountain_of_Youth_DEMO
http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/Newsite/Games.aspx/Detail/257/Indiana_Jones_and_the_Fountain_of_Youth_ROLLING_DEMO
http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/Newsite/Games.aspx/Detail/1515/Indiana_Jones_and_the_Passage_of_Saints
http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/Newsite/Games.aspx/Detail/1121/Indiana_Jones_and_the_Temple_of_Spheres

These now look ok to me, if there's anything wrong that I haven't spotted please let me know what it is.

It seems that Chrome, Explorer and Opera chose to hide the problem to the user, but if you visit these pages with Firefox (tested in Windows and Linux) you will see some odd characters, a square with an hexadecimal code, like this:

(http://s16.postimage.org/ksam4i6tt/character.jpg) (http://postimage.org/)

EDIT: Not in Emma Roide!

Same issue here (also firefox)

It looks like its an issue with the font and special characters eg. : ; ' < > [ ]

What version of Firefox? I'm not seeing the issue, using the latest version, (12.0).

Hiding the “prob” is more bad in my opinion because if you don't know about it you don't even realize, that there is something wrong  :P

(http://s7.directupload.net/images/user/120424/pl8bynlo.png)

Quote from: Ryan Timothy on Tue 24/04/2012 01:39:58
I don't quite understand how it affects you as a person browsing the games page? It's there for those who want to socially advertise their own games or one that they enjoy.

Then they can take to Twitter and point a link to the game in question. Or they can post about it on Facebook. If they care enough about the game in question, then suitable avenues to crow about it are only a url away. If they can't be bothered because there's not a button there to do it for them, then they probably won't lose any sleep either way.

But if you think about it now that like going backwards.

Quote from: LimpingFish on Tue 24/04/2012 23:44:05
Then they can take to Twitter and point a link to the game in question. Or they can post about it on Facebook. If they care enough about the game in question, then suitable avenues to crow about it are only a url away. If they can't be bothered because there's not a button there to do it for them, then they probably won't lose any sleep either way.

Adventure games have always appealed to not-quite-average gamers, so we shouldn't assume that everyone visiting the database is thoroughly web-savvy. There may be visitors who are used to sharing with a facebook button, but don't share a game simply because they see no button.

In adventure game terms, you're endorsing the sierra interface method of sharing rather than the one-click method everyone outside of the forums is used to.

Quote from: Ali on Wed 25/04/2012 10:41:42
In adventure game terms, you're endorsing the sierra interface method of sharing rather than the one-click method everyone outside of the forums is used to.

That really made my day.  ;D

Quote from: Hudders on Tue 24/04/2012 21:50:19
What version of Firefox? I'm not seeing the issue, using the latest version, (12.0).

I was using Firefox 11.0, of course, 12.0 was released yesterday!
Well, it seems that the Mozilla developers read these forums, or something.

Quote from: LimpingFish on Tue 24/04/2012 23:44:05
Then they can take to Twitter and point a link to the game in question. Or they can post about it on Facebook. If they care enough about the game in question, then suitable avenues to crow about it are only a url away.

See, I don't understand this way of thinking. Why not make it easy to spread the word?

You don't like facebook/twitter? Fine! But there is no reason to gimp a site because some people don't want to use a feature.

The facebook like button, I don't like. I agree that it's iffy to share that much information with facebook from a site that has a like button (which is a minimally tiny link to fb, which means it shouldn't get info).

Share and Twitter's intent are easy as pie and don't require any info/tracking to/from facebook.

They're just links. Inert, safe.

http://twitter.com/intent/tweet?text=From%20AGS%20forums%20http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk
http://www.facebook.com/share.php?u=http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk

If I can do that from the forum, you can trust that they're just links. If these get implemented, then you've got nothing to worry about, LimpingFish. If the Like button gets implemented, eh, I'd rather you not.

About the panel ratings and categorization:

I know this is a lot of work to do and understandable that the panel can't rate all games as soon as they are added to the database. But now there is a large amount of games that aren't even categorized.

I suggest to add the category dropdown to the "Add game" page again so that authors can select the game length themselves as it was before. When the panel reviews the game and think that the category is wrong, they can change it later anyway.

voh, that's exactly what the new forums are going to do.

cat, the reason they aren't categorised is no one can agree on an appropriate category for some games.  I'm planning to add some more categories as soon as I get the chance / remember to.

If you are changing categories, I suggest making MAGS an additional flag and not a length category. There are short, medium length and non-adventure MAGS entries.

Quote from: Tartalo on Wed 25/04/2012 12:09:00

Quote from: Hudders on Tue 24/04/2012 21:50:19
What version of Firefox? I'm not seeing the issue, using the latest version, (12.0).

I was using Firefox 11.0, of course, 12.0 was released yesterday!
Well, it seems that the Mozilla developers read these forums, or something.

OK, so I was actually using 12.0 beta 6.  :P

Ok, I've moved the new website off the /Newsite URL and onto the main URL.

For now both websites are running in parallel. Can you guys please test this:
http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/Home.aspx
and make sure it's all working properly. Once we're happy, I can change the default page so that the main www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk and www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk pages point to the new site instead.

Hmm. Something I never noticed when we were testing the new website. I'm not overly fond of the Picks of the Month not having a picture of the game to the left side.

Could I suggest a sideshow of some new AGS games on the new site games page? I could make it and post the code for ;)