It's official, California is moron-central

[OneThinkingGal and ._.]

That's there everywhere, sometimes actually, sometimes percieved.

People feel that they are discriminated on the basis of thier skin colour, place of origin, caste(well in India ), hair colour, looks, body size, and just about anything. Sometimes its real, sometimes its not. You just have to be there to actually judge.

So basically my point being, its not a race thing, its a human thing.

[Alynn]

You know, there's male/female ends of plugs.  Why don't we bitch about that too!

I just have to say as soon as the lesbian and gay communities start bitching because of the above, I will go on a killing spree, but I wont be discriminitory... I'll kill everyone....

[remixor]

I'm still unclear, who exactly is it offending, aside from that over-politically-correct moron in the article?  

Well, interestingly, I worked under a black server admin who was the first person who brought the issue to my attention.  He's not some crazy "black power!" guy either, he just thought the term was unnecessary and not really appropriate.  

I'm pretty sure though that I'm much more liberal than most people here and judging from the responses in this thread it really wouldn't be worth it to respond to them.   There have been many (other) things said in this thread with which I disagree, but they're all things which people tend to have opinions about which are too strong to be worth discussing in a non-related forum.

[Quintaros]

I think its a little silly to be offended by the use of the words Slave and Master in a context that has nothing to do with human slavery.  But its even sillier to resist.  There's no reason not to change the name of a computer component when a large group of people find it offensive.

After the whole CJ!=Christ debacle, I've decided that its easier for me to stop doing potentially offensive things than it is others to stop being offended.

[Las Naranjas]

If it was a choice between rather absurd PC people and those that try to forget events which still have ramifications today, I'd prefer the former.

If we just get over slavery, or crimes against indigenous populaces, why don't we just get over the world wars, or the holocaust, or Vietnam. Sure the country is still fucked by having more craters than the moon and the best part of the arable land destroyed, but I'm over it, like flares, both in the original craze and the revival.

In fact, lets get over Sept. 11th, it was like 2 years ago man! The world moves so quickly with all the news these days, why should we dwell on something when the Euro qualifiers are in the news cycle. Feel free to be unhip, but Paris Hilton's sex tape and Michael Jackson's arrest are where it's at man. If it ain't news, get over it dude!

[quintaros (at work)]

Feel free to be unhip, but Paris Hilton's sex tape and Michael Jackson's arrest are where it's at man.

I must be totally unhip because I have no idea what you are talking about.  I have, however, received a lot of spam lately with something about Hilton's sex tape.  Didn't know what it was about and never opened it.

[Las Naranjas]

Woah dude, you're totally like those people that are living in the past on ANZAC day, or the 11th on November or Thanksgiving.

All that stuff happened, like, ages ago.

[Haddas]

"- California Customer Support speaking. How may I help you?"


Is this insulting to anyone?

[RickJ]

I do think the master/slave designation should be changed.

I disagree. These terms are imbedded far deeper than just disk drives.  You will find such designations on chip labels and in software systems.  It addition to the pervasive use of these terms you will be hard pressed to find a more accurate description of a pair of  electronic devices where on is under the complete control of the other.  

This kind of silliness, if taken seriously, will eventually get someone killed.   I can easily see an accident happen because of vague and confusing labels being used.  

This reminds me of something that happened when I was working for General Electric.  The GE micro-processor boards I used to build control systems with had a signal named "Bushog".  To all of us English speakers at GE the term perfectly described the situation when address and control signals were sent out on the computer bus and no device responded within a reasonable amount of time.   What else would you call it when something is "hogging" the bus?  Then we had French customers to whom "hog" was just a farm animal with tasty meat and had no other connotation as in English.  They asked me  "Yes I know what it does, but why do you call it boos-ogg?".    

So what's the point?  Computers don't give a shit about politics and neither do the engineers that design them.  Terminology is coined that is easy to remember, that is concise, and that accurately and intuitively describes the thing being named.    Client/Server, Primary/Secondary are very different from Master/Slave.  

One could easily make the case that an absurd complaint such is this is offensive.  I would say that it's intent is dodge the real political issues of the day and that the it is casing harm.  Anyone that has enough time to sit around and think this stuff up can't have time to be doing any useful work.  I also find it offensive that people like this are being paid from tax payers' money that could be better spent elsewhere.

So there  

[SSH]

Well,

I think that the reason people get offended is not just "you used the word slave" but  rather the underlying assumptions in the analogy:

For example, a slave on my embedded system bus is so called becasue it is entirely under the control of the master and should not do anything without being told to first. The analogy is obvious. But with real slaves, they were  people who did think for themselves and want to do their own things and have hopes and dreams for their future and for that of their children. That is where the analogy falls down and that is where the descendant of a slave might feel that an offensive over-simplification of the master-slave relationship has been introduced.

On the other hand, the chip I was designing the other day had a revolt becasue the master had raped one of the slaves and the bus slaves tied up the master and escaped the system. So maybe it IS a good analogy!  

[Haddas]

Then how 'bout callin' it Master-Zombie???

[RickJ]

SSH,  Being a chip designer gives you the same perspective as I.  From your comments, perhaps we should be offended because of the misapplication of the terms by those guys some 200 years ago.  

Perhaps the plantation owners should have been called the Primaries and the plantation workers called the Secondaries.  

[Darth Mandarb]

"get over it" does not equal "forget about it".

You should never forget the past, but neither should you live in it.

[OneThinkingGal and ._.]

"get over it" does not equal "forget about it".

You should never forget the past, but neither should you live in it.

Couldn't have put it better. Over-political-correctness with regard to historic terms  is often sweep-under-the-carpet-ness.

[remixor]

"get over it" does not equal "forget about it".

You should never forget the past, but neither should you live in it.

Couldn't have put it better. Over-political-correctness with regard to historic terms  is often sweep-under-the-carpet-ness.

But keeping the terminology is somehow promoting productive or intelligent historical discussion?  

[Darth Mandarb]

I saw a can of white paint on the shelf at Home Depot today.  It had the nerver to say WHITE right on the can!

Now, as a white man, I find this offensive.  Are the paint companies saying I'm like paint?

It's simply rediculous.

Get the frickidy-frack over it!!!

I'm am making light of this.  I can see the point of the original argument.

HOWEVER ...

There are hundreds of thousands of people dying from hunger and starvation daily in the world.  There are millions of homeless.  Millions of people infected with diseases.

There are many MUCH more important things to worry about than a frickin' designation on a computer hard drive which has connotations of something that hasn't existed in over 200 years.

If we focused 1/2 the attention on important matters rather than frivilous bullshit like this, I think frivilous bullshit like this wouldn't matter at all.

(this is, of course, just my opinion)

]).]v[.

[Fuzzpilz]

There are many MUCH more important things to worry about than a frickin' designation on a computer hard drive which has connotations of something that hasn't existed in over 200 years.

I basically agree with your points, and I do think it's absolutely silly to get offended over this, or any, piece of technical terminology (within reasonable limits), but I'd like to point out that the 200 years thing is very, very incorrect.

One, slavery in the US in fact ended much less than 200 years ago - formally, the end was 1865, or 1863 if you count the Emancipation Proclamation (I don't think there's any real reason to do so).

Two, I'm alarmed how many people don't seem to know that that wasn't the only instance of slavery in the history of the world. Slavery has always existed at any point of history you might care to name, probably in a way even before the homo sapiens, and it still exists.

[OneThinkingGal and ._.]

"get over it" does not equal "forget about it".

You should never forget the past, but neither should you live in it.

Couldn't have put it better. Over-political-correctness with regard to historic terms  is often sweep-under-the-carpet-ness.

But keeping the terminology is somehow promoting productive or intelligent historical discussion?  

What is removing the terminology accomplishing?

How is this any different from the 'don't call CJ christ' thing in which you more or less said Wanderlady would have to bear it since none of us meant any offence by it? Do you really think people are calling it 'master-slave' configuration to offend anyone in particular?

The term 'slave' is an analogy(and an accurate desciption) for the function the hardware performs, much like christ was used as an analogy there. I don't see why different rules apply.

[Darth Mandarb]

but I'd like to point out that the 200 years thing is very, very incorrect.
One, slavery in the US in fact ended much less than 200 years ago - formally, the end was 1865, or 1863 if you count the Emancipation Proclamation (I don't think there's any real reason to do so).

I know that  I was just over-emphasizing!  (Which many here know I tend to do sometimes!)

Two, I'm alarmed how many people don't seem to know that that wasn't the only instance of slavery in the history of the world. Slavery has always existed at any point of history you might care to name, probably in a way even before the homo sapiens, and it still exists.

I was wondering if people realized this too.  But that article only commented on slavery in the 19th century so I kept my comments to that topic/era.

I suppose it could be the Jewish community bitchin' about this, "Ramhses ... let the hard drive designation go!!!"  

(nuthin' but love to the Jewish community by the way ... before somebody jumps all over poor ol' DM!!)

[TheYak]

Why is it that the Master/Slave terminology can actually be a topic of debate when it is used in a electronic or mechanical sense?  It's not as though the terminals are colored black and white.  It's not as if the Master cylinder in your car bears the words, "Master Cylinder, Master Race, Born White and Proud!"  It's finding offense where none is intended and where the terms are applicable and fairly accurate.

However, I fill out census forms and answer questionaires.  When completing employment forms or a request for a replacement driver's license, I have to mark "White" (Which I'm not.. I'm more of a tannish-pink) or the supposedly less-offensive term "Caucasian."  I'm never sure whether to mark this since none of my relatives have actually come here from Caucasia.  Technically, I could mark "Native American" being 1/4 Cherokee but I'm not actually registered with a tribe/reservation so I cannot do so, legally.  

Only my opinion, of course, but given the two situations, I believe I have more right to be offended and bitch about my situation than in the thread's example.  Maybe not.  I'll strive to be more open-minded.  Perhaps, eventually, I can be so open-minded that I can accomodate a gentle breeze through my skull.  BTW, this post isn't directed towards any one person but at people in general.  If you're offended by it, I'll be sure not to expect a Winter Holiday present from you.