Alice the Ork

[2ma2]

Nice orcish features there, but I think you could vary the linewidth even more to increase the distinguishing. Ofcourse, something as obvious as coloring does this aswell

Also, make sure your lines are cutting eachother off when dealing with objects infront of others. You do this well in some places and not so well in others. For instance, the ear and jewelery in it: good. The hand contra boobies: not so good. Basically, when an outline of a covering object does not cut off but more or less complete the line of the object underneath, so decrease readability making it more abstract to pattern like. Ergo, this is not a problem in cybernetic details or patterns on clothes, but more problematic in defining limbs and silhouettes. for instance, the crak in the rock goes down and joins in with the gun almost precisly in the diagonal of the aiming thinge, and the other crack does the same to a detail on the gun. It might be wise to let the crack reach the gun onto a defined line such as the barrel, and let it continue below it.

And no worries about masculine, an orc should NOT be feminine or God forbid, attractive

[IM NOT TEH SPAM]

I think the way you drew her face in the first one captures the femenine-but-orcish features, but the second one's chin is kinda creepy.  Stefano's edit does add femenine features, but it's a little too "pretty" for it.  IMO you should fix the chin (I know the way she's holding the cigarette, but...), and the gun barrel almost looks like it's smoking with the crack in the wall nearby.

[Igor]

Great changes! i love new "bad-ass" look on her face The pic has now much more character and is more dynamic and readable.. love it

[Squinky]

Thank you for all the feedback guys, I've been fooling around with it and think things are doing better....Heres one of my pics I've got finished....based off the pic of me in the photo thread holding a sword...


And another I just finished up...

[big brother]

It would be worth your time to explore a more gestural style and get used to expressing shapes with more depth. As it is now, every line and little detail seems to have equal importance and they all vie for the viewer's attention. Marvel artists always tried to simplify panels by making the outlines heavy and blocking in the shadows.

You need to step back from your drawing and look at it from a distance often. In the end, it's the impact of the whole that matters, not the little details.

In your latest drawing, the pose seems awkward, like she's floating rather than leaning back against the wall. The proportions need work, too. Her left arm is too short, as is her right thigh. Her neck is too long. Her fingers are all the same length. You might want to cut down on the flair a bit, since it distracts from the figure. The visible eye is very frontal, even at the three-quarters angle.

Figure drawing from live models is invaluable to developing a sense of space, weight, and proportion.

[Andail]

I have to say that most of your figures seem to lack both balance and natural postures. Most of them look like visitors in a cyber-weapon shop, where they proudly model with newly purchased guns and whatnot.
Try to aim for more credible, in-action poses, try to make them express something unique, something that would fit a specific environment, series of events, upcoming events, etc.

Your biggest (and maybe only) strength is your sense of detail and design. But this can't make up for non functional proportions and postures.

One of my absolute favourite artists Benjamin Carre is a master when it comes to cool posing.
http://www.blancfonce.com/galleries.html

It's not really your style, and I don't wish to compare two different artists, I just came to think of his pictures when I saw these figures posing with their weapons.

[Al_Ninio]

Oh my. Thank you, Andail!
I've seen this guy's art on the Sijun forums a few years back and been breaking my head ever since trying to find out who he was. Awesome.

[Stitches]

can we see some of your artwork as a comparison Andail?  Or some actual CONSTRUCTRIVE critique on Squinky's work? 
Like Igor, who showed Squinky some ways to improve his work, show us how YOU would improve upon these works.
You are a moderator, live up to the title.

[DanClarke]

can we see some of your artwork as a comparison Andail?  Or some actual CONSTRUCTRIVE critique on Squinky's work? 
Like Igor, who showed Squinky some ways to improve his work, show us how YOU would improve upon these works.
You are a moderator, live up to the title.

Woah take it easy!

Andail posted links, surely this will give squinky some inspiration or ideas on how to improve? He didn't say 'it's rubbish i dont like it' so i dont see what the problem is.

[IM NOT TEH SPAM]

Easy there, stitches... no one was being insulting to Squinky's work... it was a constructional comment, he told him he needs to work on poses and gave him an example of what he should do.  And he's right, the poses he had on both Alice before were confusing as were the ones he had on his new orcs here. (Tito and Outlaw?  Bah, whatever...)

[Ubel]

Yeah, Andail you bloody n00b! Why do you always have to be starting up these flame wars? Nobody likes you, go away!

( I'm gonna put this smiley here, just in case someone is really so silly they think I was serious here)

On topic:

I really like your drawings. I'm very impressed about the amount of detail in those. And yes, Alice is sooo hot!

If I could draw that good pictures, I wouldn't mind about the poses that much. I'd be just happy if I could draw that good.

[Helm]

hope this helps a bit. It's about center of gravity and character placement and perspective and I hope the image clears more things up than I could with words. Try to not start with a character in limbospace. Try to make a good perspective scheme for him, try to think where the camera is looking from, what height, eye hight? knee height? bird's eye? remembeing the horison is on eye level ( when the camera also is on eye level) helps establish some rules about all of that stuff. The leg as I edited it is now properly grounded, and provides support. The sorta perspective you were using for the background was very very off.

the anatomy here otherwise is pretty sold, although I moved the head in closer to the torso. I like this piece a lot.

Try to distribute your detail less evenly. Don't fear white space. Things that are detailed catch the eye more and that's a useful tool. Try to vary your line widths according to the curve you're following in the inking.

[Andail]

Stitches, try to calm down, you're being offensive for no reason.

If I sounded harsh, it doesn't mean I wasn't being constructive. If I hadn't considered Squinky's artwork very promising in some areas, I wouldn't stress how good they could be if he improved some other areas.

Also, yeah, I could illustrate how they actually could be improved, which is something I do on regular basis in the critics lounge, and which is something I have done for Squinky before (I have a distinct memory of doing a paint-over in the past.) But now I lack the time, unfortunately.

[Stitches]

just so you know Andail, i am quite calm.
i made a promise to myself that i would not reply more to this thread unless i had more creative input to place within this thread(as that is the point). BUT i had to put two more cents in.  You can not judge my attitude through text.  Most of my critique upon your critique was this statement from you:
"Your biggest (and maybe only) strength"
This is not constructive, this is insulting.
As for input on this thread, i wanna give a thank you to Helm and Igor for helping my brother with his technique.

[Andail]

I'm used to people being able to handle constructive criticism, even though it may be expressed a bit harsh. However, I'm not used to having their smaller brothers bursting in and making a scene.

To say that someone has a strength in detail and design is not an insult. When I say "only", I meant in the context of other things I've mentioned, namely composition, human postures, proportions etc. I didn't say he sucked at that either, but I said they weren't his strengths.

[Helm]

Stitches, relax. Andail's post offered critique. If your brother didn't feel insulted to the point of complainage, why did you feel the urge to post in his defense? There's nothing to defend, this is critique and that's how it goes.

[loominous]

Facial mods:



I think the facial features are holding the drawings back the most. The face is the first thing we look at, and if we don't buy it, we'll look very critically on the rest, and vice versa.

I hate studying anatomy, so I'm reluctant to recommend it, but perhaps look some books on faces, and do a couple of eye studies. My recommendations once again goes to Andrew Loomis' books, which focus on understanding of shape/mass, which will lead to solid understanding and independence from references.

Not only the best books on the subjects, imo - though I havn't really looked at many other - they're available for free (they're not printed anymore) at:

http://www.saveloomis.org/

[MrColossal]

personally I would have a hard time buying your edit, loominous, from the setting she's in and the clothes she's wearing and all that I wouldn't really buy a pretty face on her neck. Especially one as emotionless as the one you drew, but obviously it's just an edit and you probably did it up quick, just wanted to say.

[loominous]

personally I would have a hard time buying your edit, loominous, from the setting she's in and the clothes she's wearing and all that I wouldn't really buy a pretty face on her neck. Especially one as emotionless as the one you drew, but obviously it's just an edit and you probably did it up quick, just wanted to say.

Well:

I) I'm assuming that Squinky is going for a comic book kind of style, and though I havn't read many, protagonists with attractive facial features seems like the standard, regardless of the setting.

II) I don't see how a trashy setting/clothes would have anything to do with facial features.

III) I deliberately do attractive faces in edits since it's usually easier to "uglify", rather than beautifying. The problem many have is that they don't know how to create natural ideal looks, and if you don't know how to do this, then you don't have much control when it comes to determining the look of your characters, and have to rely on good fortune.

IV) My edit was mainly to show how more realistic features usually look from that angle. If Squinky knows this already and is deliberately going for the style featured, then he can just ignore it, but chances are in cases like these, that the style is based on limitations rather than preferences.

V) I don't really see how comments on edits serve much purpose, unless they'res from the maker of the original image. If the maker likes something in an edit, he/she'll include it, and vice versa. The knowledge of what forum member X thinks about an edit is as interesting as replies consisting of a smiley.

[MrColossal]

I apologize if because it was directed at you, you took it as an insult or something but it was really a general comment.

How about this then:

I personally feel that because of the setting and taking the character into account, the face is fine. The character doesn't live a happy life I imagine and the face adds character.

My comment was to point out that when drawing something, taking the whole image into consideration changes how each part is rendered and for me the face is fine.

Squinky can take what I wrote to you and like it or not just like he can take other crit and do the same.

I was just making a comment, if you think my comment was useless then I see your point 5 as pointless flame bait.

So thanks for the insult.

edit:

also, I don't know why you chose to respond to my post and call it useless when there are tons of posts in other threads of people saying your edit is better than the original and how awesome your edit is and eye popping smileys. I think those are more useless than a post from someone who thought he could have a friendly chat. Oh well.