POST - MITTENS

Matt Goble · Sun 27/08/2006 17:25:26

Helm, you are right, we are all on holiday. And we're on holiday as a group which we've all paid to be a part of. As such everyone should be considerate of everyone else, whether that it down to people's behaviour regarding alcohol, or they're likes and dislikes regarding what the group does.

Nacho say's that you weren't big on going for the drinks and socialising, but made an effort because you're a considerate person. I'm not a huge fan of thrill rides, but I was more than happy to hold the bags at the theme park while other people experienced them. I would like to think that I am a considerate person.

You're right it is easier to talk about 'slapping someone for being inconsiderate' than it is to do, and I would never suggest that we resort to violence over such matters

. My point / dream is that as we get to know people more, and build up our relationships, we will be able to turn to each other and verbally 'slap' each other into shape as you and your mates do at home. We should be able to tell each other when we are being unreasonable, and when enough is enough.

You're right, it was never about GET DRUNK vs TALK ABOUT AGS, but at the same time, going out of an evening was not about getting drunk - I think we might have some crossed wires.

I personally went out because there were places other than the campsite where it was easier to talk, whether that is over a meal, a drink or the walk from one place to another. We could stay at the campsite and get drunk, we could stay at the campsite and talk AGS, we could do both of those things away from the campsite.

The only problem with discussing this stuff after the fact is that it looses some of it's context. It is now a bigger thing than it was. As I said in my earlier post, what was fundamentally lacking was communication.

Disco · Sun 27/08/2006 18:28:01

Communication...crossed wires...yes that seems right.

Now that I think of it, most of the bad things I recall from Mittens and in this thread (i.e.-hurt feelings, seperations) were because of communication problems.

I hesitate speaking of this as it's a bit embarrasing, and was going to leave it for a PM,Ã,Â but now that I know I'm not alone I feel alright talking about it. Like Helm, I also often experience a near catatonia-inducing (well, for me at least

) depression, which sadly just happened to hit the night before Mittens began. Because of this, there were times where I felt quite hurt or offended by non-drunk people standing right next to me (not vica-versa), though I conjure most was due to misunderstandings. Also, the fact that I am a North American who is not used to "taking the piss out of each other" for fun didn't help either. I feel I must apologise to every Mittener for the times I left the group to wander on my own at night, feeling disconnected from everyone, and to the 4-5 people I lied to when they asked me what was wrong. I'm sorry for that, I just didn't want to cause anyone to worry. It wasn't you it was me (Wow, that really is true sometimes...thank you George Custanza).

As for the person to person problems, it's hard to tell if any of it was real or imagined or that things weren't as bad as I saw them, but I sometimes worried that I was falling out with people or perhaps that someone didn't like me or something. Anyways, I left Mittens acting cheery for everyone, but really feeling awful because I just wanted to resolve things one on one with those I felt I had problems with. However, In the few days ince I've been home, I realise that there probably wasn't such a problem in the first place, it is just likely just communication.

I'm confident that after everyone speaking their minds this year, we'll get along that much better next year. Sorry if this makes little sense, I'm just pouring out my thoughts on a dificult topic.

Still looking forward to Canada,
Kenneth

Becky · Sun 27/08/2006 18:39:14

I think we're looking back in hindsight and blowing things out of proportion a bit here. At times I did feel a bit frustrated at events, and I do agree that poor or fractured decision making was the root of the problem. With a group as large as 21, we really should have been prepared that we would split into smaller groups, and made arrangements accordingly. However, overall I think it was fine, we did enjoy our trips out as groups, and I managed to try and speak to everyone over the course of the time I was there.

I really enjoyed everyone's company, whether as a large group or as smaller groups. Everyone was friendly towards me and I had such an awesome time, I hope to be with you all in Canada next year!

AGA · Sun 27/08/2006 19:05:17

I don't think any planning is needed really. People split into groups at times, sure, but it wasn't always the same few people together. Sometimes Darren (Quintaros) was with the drinking crew, for instance, and sometimes he was with the others. Sometimes Goldmund and Dominica had stuff to do, so they disappeared. Sometimes scotch, Disco, magintz and Petteri disappeared in the sea for hours. People were off having fun doing what they wanted to do. We still spent a lot of time together as large groups - the theme parks, some meals, some bar trips, late nights at the campsite, for instance. But keeping that up all the time would be very difficult, and I think we struck a nice balance. I can't speak for everyone, but I don't think anyone was especially excluded or stuck doing something they didn't want to do, did they? You might have wanted everyone to spent more time together as a whole, but that was practically speaking just not going to happen.

The only complaint I do have personally is that on the occasions we did decide to all do something together, it usually took us about half an hour of standing around to actually LEAVE. People going to the toilet, changing clothes, getting money, whatever. Kind of understandable, but come on, get a move on, people!

scotch · Sun 27/08/2006 19:52:00

I didn't find the drinking too excessive, at least there were plenty of people not involved (along with myself), so there were always people around to hang out with. And most of the time people weren't drinking. It's preferable to talk to people in smaller groups, so I am glad we went and did different things sometimes, I don't think there was a lack of planning.

To Nacho and Lorena: The location and activities of this mittens were great, I loved it. Contrary to what this argument and some of the photos might suggest, drinking was a tiny part of the week in general, and will be less most years... we were in an alcohol fuelled tourist town, what do you expect?

Disco... do you have your videos?

passer-by · Sun 27/08/2006 20:14:03

Are you ever going to stop this and do some photoshop ? ?
We're getting impatient here!!

La Lore · Sun 27/08/2006 20:36:43

AGSers... I exist... and now, I have a video...

Quote from: La Lore
http://s12.photobucket.com/albums/a214/La_Lore/Mittens%20Spain/
The password: morebeer

Grundislav... great film
I want to see more photosÃ,Â

Adamski · Sun 27/08/2006 20:43:02

Sorry to cause such a stir with my post, it's unfortunate that the textual delivery made it sound like I felt more deeply about it than I actually do! I had discussed it with Becky a bit when we left which is why it was at the forefront of my mind, and as Matt has said the context gets lost a little after the event. Everyone has made some fair points in defense, it's a shame there wasn't anywhere more comfortable that we all could have gone to talk away from the campsite (I don't believe anyone would have chosen Home From Home over a proper Mittens Campfire if there'd been a choice!) as I do feel like I missed out on chatting to the folks who spent more time in bars than me - mostly the brits actually. It probably doesn't help that we missed the trip down and Thursday evening too, otherwise my brain would have probably felt more satisfied with the time spent in everyone's company!

The small niggles we've experienced ths year - and we've had 5 years without a single frownline so far so we're doing pretty damn well - will be forgotten in weeks and we'll only remember all the great bits such as 6 storey yellow enema slides, bone-shaking rollercoasters, spinning hammer rides of joy, flipping people over on the rapids, waterslide races, Eugene and his Bionic Arm, The Adventure Game Movie (lost in production), Exorcising Kings Quest 7, Bohemian Rhapsody vs. Acceptable Noise Pollution Levels, CJ's face as a memorabilia cereal bowl, Insane bus drivers and their ticket despensers, fun with curry, Italian Music Video critique (it's the same frigging drum sounds!), Arse Arse Arse, discovering water is secretly highly flammable, taking a boat to the island (Red Cross version), taking a real boat to the island, Bar Celona, "All you CAN eat, not all YOU WOULD LIKE to eat", Cow Trading, The AGS Male Low-Note Drone Choir and countless other nuggets of greatness that can only happen at Mittens - I'm sure there are many more people can add.

I hope no one feels there's any tension or bad blood - certainly not from me anyway - if this thread has given the illusion that there is! Things tend to appear more serious in writing than intended. But hey, that's the internet for you

At least next year we'll be better prepared to deal with organisation issues and planning, especially if we have our own cozy central living quarters as a base of operations.

Nacho · Sun 27/08/2006 20:53:43

Yes, this been magnified, probablty because people felt that this was more an attack that a commet. This is the crap of internet, everything sounds in your head, when read, worse than told in real live, face to face... for me everything is solved.

And now, you, suckers, congratulate me for the maravelous hosting is ok, but Lorena wants her glory too! PM her!!!

Andail · Sun 27/08/2006 21:02:35

The initial mittens had booze, although it was actually only Candyman who got really drunk.
My mittens included very little alcohol, and no nights at pubs/clubs. I was drunk myself once but it was an isolated incident, I hope. I tried to arrange activities and force everybody to participate, so that people could break the ice without alcohol.
Mittens USA also had close to zero alcohol, which was also due to the fact that the crew was fairly small (and quite well acquainted, mostly) and we had a locale to be in. There were also activities.
Mittens Greece was quite peacefully devoid of drunkenness (except for AGA, but that was harmless and fun). People were well acquainted at this point and there was no need for special acitivities or booze. However, the group was relatively big this time and split up on occassions.
Wintermeet...only one night out, which totally rocked! Celebrating the new year dancing with Grundislav, Blazej and Dominika was awesome. But over all, not much booze.
Brightens saw Spleen as frantic as ever, and that certainly added to the atmosphere. It was a great meeting over all.

Personally I've cut back on alcohol quite dramatically, which is because of a) I'm getting way too tired and hung-over to appreciate the drunkenness, and B) I have a steady relationship, and that tends to calm down that sort of behaviour...

Anyhow, I promise to attend the next meeting.

Helm · Sun 27/08/2006 21:06:39

Lorena, thank you for co-hosting. You are very nice

Andail: looking forward to getting together again.

Becky · Sun 27/08/2006 21:07:08

When all the shops ressurect on Tuesday I shall take my camera to have the photos developed - I can only hope that the underwater-photo attempts didn't trash the film!

m0ds · Sun 27/08/2006 21:53:39

Can't wait to see the underwater shots!! And Lorena, thank you for hosting us! Or co-hosting us

And getting us discounts, and picking us up early on the morning of Nacho's race... You did a grand job! And like Helm said, you are very nice! As is Nacho, and everyone else who went!

Except me.

Matt Goble · Sun 27/08/2006 23:40:50

Lorena, great job on co-hosting. Sorry I missed you out of my huge "back slapping" to Nacho earlier.

Radiant, I missed having a go at the Pizza Card game, so maybe next time.

Adam, 'Home from Home' out of the question due to SSMS (Scary Single Mother Syndrome), but Beer's Friend next door - outside tables, pool for AGA, 1.10 for a pint if you wanted 2.00 for a soft drink. Very easy to 'tread water' on one pint there!

Andail, you were sorely missed, although understandably so. Make sure it doesn't happen again.

Everyone had a great time, I think when it comes down to it, people will always want a greater time. Like girlfriends, the grass is always greener.

Just as an aside, on the way back when the road-trip crew stopped at the CarreFour Express HyperMarket place, 1.5L of Water was 20c - how cheap is that!?!? Just a bit far to go for some hydration each day.

Nacho, Lorena, before I forget, and so as not to start a new thread, when it comes out in Spain, you must go and see Guillermo del Toro's new film "Pan's Labyrinth" or "El Laberinto del Fauno" as it may be called. I saw a showing over here on Friday with an Introduction by del Toro and it's amazing - kind of Alice in Wonderland during the Spanish Civil War.

Pumaman · Mon 28/08/2006 00:30:29

Did I miss some sort of alcohol-related incident, because I'm really not sure what's being referred to here?

If it's just the fact that some of us went out to the bars for a while on a few nights, well as Grundislav says that was just a result of the situation we were in -- there was no-where reasonable to sit around and chat on the campsite, so why not go to a bar and chat instead? The majority of the time was not DRINK DRINK DRINK GET BLIND DRUNK but rather just having a chat over a pint, in a pub with some chairs to sit on. You didn't need to be a frantic drinker to come along, and could easily just drink Coke if you so desired -- it was just somewhere to sit and talk.

As has been pointed out several times, 21 people is just too many to sit around in a circle and have a single discussion; it's not going to work. Splitting up into groups is to be expected with this many people -- my only complaint would be that we should have organised things better. Saying "we'll go to the bar, you guys go to the beach, and we'll meet back at the campsite at 11:00" would have been far preferable to people randomly leaving or getting left behind, and then a panic to find them later on and not knowing how long to wait for.

Anyway, as I say, unless there was some sort of incident that I'm not aware of, I didn't see anything that happened as being a problem, and I really enjoyed the week. But I think it proves that we need Andail, and he shall never be allowed to miss another Mittens.

EDIT: So on this topic, how about these for the custom titles:
1: Mittens teetotaler
2: Mittens drinker
3: Mittens drunkard
4: Mittens hangover
5: Mittens AGA

m0ds · Mon 28/08/2006 00:43:49

QuoteEDIT: So on this topic, how about these for the custom titles:
1: Mittens teetotaler
2: Mittens drinker
3: Mittens drunkard
4: Mittens hangover
5: Mittens AGA

Hahaha! I'd definitely take number 3!

Woops!

AGA · Mon 28/08/2006 01:03:18

That would make you, m0ds and DarkStalkey a Mittens AGA too, Chris :O

I propose

1. Crap at pool
2. Crap at pool
3. Crap at pool
4. Crap at pool
5. AGA ARE KING

Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens · Mon 28/08/2006 03:47:08

QuoteI just don't like to drink a lot and a night out in town at pubs at wet-shirt contests and karaoke (which, as a Greek I suspect I will never understand the appeal of) does not excite me.

Greeks are not the only people who feel this way, Helm ^_^.

Also, based on what I have read it seems that Mittens is simply not for certain people, ie, people like me that simply cannot stand being around alcohol or people consuming it. It also seems it's not for people who are attention-needy and want to constantly have something going on and be surrounded by others. This isn't a bad thing, really, but perhaps people should know what they're in for in advance? Certainly I figure most of the regulars already know what to expect, but new (and interested) parties do not, and it might be nice to give them an idea in this regard so they can decide whether or not it's something they can handle.

NO DEPOSIT NO RETURN.

Also: Berian is a scamp, and less loveable than he claims!

Erenan · Mon 28/08/2006 07:25:27

Yeah, as someone who would like to meet up with some of the people on here in person someday, and as someone who doesn't drink a drop of alcohol ever, period, let's just say I was a little put off by the photos I was seeing. But I am reassured by the content of this conversation. I was worried that I would feel alienated by my decision not to have any alcohol, but it seems now that that probably would not be the case, and I'd probably have fun after all.

Of course, I don't have a heck of a lot of money. And I know my girlfriend (fiancÃ©e before too long, probably) would encourage me not to go and meet Internet people in person, especially flying off to Europe or Canada to do it. Maybe those of us over here on the west coast who are interested really ought to have a meeting sometime.

Pet Terry · Mon 28/08/2006 08:16:13

I did my best to get along with everyone, drunk or not. I even got quite drunk myself twice, and that's not something I usually do. I knew the group would split in two on several occasions, and I usually had hard time deciding which group to join. Sometimes, though, people just started gathering around a couple of people, like when Dominika and me had a discussion about differences between languages. Then people just started gathering around us, and BLAM! A new group had born. I guess it just happens.

On the other hand...

Quote from: Adamski on Sun 27/08/2006 20:43:02
The small niggles we've experienced ths year - and we've had 5 years without a single frownline so far so we're doing pretty damn well - will be forgotten in weeks and we'll only remember all the great bits such as 6 storey yellow enema slides, bone-shaking rollercoasters, spinning hammer rides of joy, flipping people over on the rapids, waterslide races, Eugene and his Bionic Arm, The Adventure Game Movie (lost in production), Exorcising Kings Quest 7, Bohemian Rhapsody vs. Acceptable Noise Pollution Levels, CJ's face as a memorabilia cereal bowl, Insane bus drivers and their ticket despensers, fun with curry, Italian Music Video critique (it's the same frigging drum sounds!), Arse Arse Arse, discovering water is secretly highly flammable, taking a boat to the island (Red Cross version), taking a real boat to the island, Bar Celona, "All you CAN eat, not all YOU WOULD LIKE to eat", Cow Trading, The AGS Male Low-Note Drone Choir and countless other nuggets of greatness that can only happen at Mittens - I'm sure there are many more people can add.

Thanks for the list! I had already forgotten some of those things!

My photos should be up in the end of this week.

EDIT: To clarify, I didn't get drunk to just to get along with people. I just went to get a couple of drinks with people, and it just kind of happened.