Saddam Captured?

[evenwolf]

So Barcik, after pasting someone's detailed and thought-provoking theory on the current events, you simply want to insult those who are skeptical?


I believe it is the real Saddam, regardless of explaination, but to call someone bias is to call someone "someone else".

[TheYak]

That post brought up a couple very interesting questions.  It's a shame they made a point that's nullified by current knowledge.  One of the observations (point B) states that they left him with no way to end his life.  However, the last news report I read stated that he was found with a loaded pistol on his lap (which remained unused).  The theorizing itself includes the following fact: "Left with him were two AK-47 assault guns and a pistol, none of which were used.
"  Damned good thing you can't kill yourself with automatic rifles or pistols.  

It's also a bit of a shame that you ended your post on that note.  Biased does not mean stupid, wrong or bad.  It means to be pre-disposed to take one position or another based on personal beliefs or situation.  I really don't see how disbelieving a person's identity can show their prejudice.  Ah,well.

[Nacho]

So Barcik, after pasting someone's detailed and thought-provoking theory on the current events, you simply want to insult those who are skeptical?


I believe it is the real Saddam, regardless of explaination, but to call someone bias is to call someone "someone else".

Where is the insult?  

[Barcik@School]

I believe the explanation has nothing to do with Saddam being real or fake. It was in response to CJ saying that Saddam arranged all the attacks from this hole. The analysis shows that, at least at first, Saddam had the desturctive potential to lead the guerilla fight.

I think that to disagree with a bold fact such as Saddam's capture is a sure sign of a person being prejudiced against the US' word.

[Interference]

There's a lot of cash to be reaped off the Iraqis and Bush probably wants as much as he can fleece without people noticing. Pretending they're not looking for money and digging up dictators and looking for WMDs they'll never find is just a way of hiding that.

Makes you wonder what he's spending it all on. America has a national debt that jumps by $2.34 billion per day, but judging by his usual mentality, a f***ing huge coffee machine is probably on the Bush wish list this Christmas.

[evenwolf]

"7. And most important, $750,000 in 100-dollar notes were found with him (a pittance for his captors who expected a $25m reward)â€" but no communications equipment of any kind, whether cell phone or even a carrier pigeon for contacting the outside world."

If the $750K was a pittance from the army to Saddam's captors, why would they even report its existence to the media, and moreover- why would the money still be in the Army's hands?



This doesn't disprove the overall captor theory.  Afterall, it would be more plausible that the military paid its entire debt to the captors and that the 750k is simply a ploy to convince disbelievers that it actually is Saddam.  But who's to say 750k isn't simply the severance pay for one of Saddam's doubles.  Haha.

Besides what gives those supposed captors any more credibility of distinguishing Saddam from a double?  I pose this only to Barcik, who appears to view that one quote to be hard evidence. Could not a double have been held captive just as easily as the real Saddam?

[Barcik@School]

I repeat, the captivity theory is not evidence that it is the real Saddam. It has nothing to do with it.

I am just saying that such hard cold facts aren't stated without sufficient proof.

* Barcik gets ready for WMD accusation.

[evenwolf]

Barcik, maybe you need to edit your original post- because the one thing you DO say is that it has everything to do with him being real or fake.  Quotes only tell us what other people think, and juxtapositions of quotes only inform us that you see a conflict of interest.  What lacks is your own argument- which you keep defending without much detail.

[makri]

I think that to disagree with a bold fact such as Saddam's capture is a sure sign of a person being prejudiced against the US' word.

Wouldn't anyone in their right mind be prejudiced against U.S. word?

[TheYak]

Real or fake?  This is one thing that isn't disputed too much.  Since there have been DNA and dental tests performed to verify his identity, it is very likely that he is the genuine article.  Of course, we have only the authorities' word for it that these tests were performed (and performed correctly) but the chances that they're lying about that are slim.  

Upon reading the first couple lines of Barcik's quoted post, I thought they might be leading us to a different conclusion which is also possible.  There are no facts that can currently dispute this with absolute certainty:

Bush & Intelligence personnel (we hear more about them now than we have in the past.  Perhaps it's because he needs them more than anyone else did? ) and the military captured Saddam some time ago.  He was sealed in a location and guarded by native troops disloyal to him.  Bush wanted Saddam's capture "under-wraps" in order to continue his conquest of Iraq with the continued pre-texts of searching for WMD & Saddam.  Some event happened to make Bush decide to unveil his prize.  Perhaps he wants the year to end on a Bush-positive note?  Maybe he was saving it for a time when people were the most skeptical of his tactics.  Just a half-assed theory.  

[edit: Makri, good point. It's especially prudent to doubt the word of a Bush]

[Nacho]

I think that to disagree with a bold fact such as Saddam's capture is a sure sign of a person being prejudiced against the US' word.

Wouldn't anyone in their right mind be prejudiced against U.S. word?

Who are you to say who is in the right mind or not Makri? Are you God? If so, make me know, I´ll try to treat you with the respect that a divinity with the overwhelming power of knowing what is good and what is evil.  

Don´t say that everyone who doesn´t have prejudices against the U.S. is mad, you´re insulting a lot of american AGSers.  

[TheYak]

Sorry, Farl, but I agree with him.  I'm an American and I like my country quite a bit.  However, I like it for its people and not its politicians.  Perhaps I could feel otherwise but, damn it, I read.
[edit: I do, however, want to make it perfectly clear that I don't think much more of governments or politicians worldwide.  I'm certainly not self-centered enough to believe that only the US has manipulative persons in high places]

[Nacho]

But Makri does not attack the Bush administration... he says... "U.S."

You can think he´s made a slight unintentioned mistake... well, I can´t be sure, but I think that Makri is just another case of the new fashion who crosses Europe... I hate the U.S.!

[YOke]

Bush & Intelligence personnel (we hear more about them now than we have in the past.  Perhaps it's because he needs them more than anyone else did? )

The CIA has had a tendency in the past of supporting the presidential canidate that is willing to give them the biggest budget and the loosest reigns. One can only speculate that the whole Monica Lewinsky-thing was part of the help Bush got from the CIA.
Anyway...
That's the reason, I think, that we hear more about Intelligence Operations (such a catchy name too). Intelligence agencies work to keep secrets and find out secrets. Their job creates a division between the people, who are kept in the dark, and the government who are supposed to be the representatives of the people. It doesn't get better when the intelligence agencies keeps information from the government it's supposed be an instrument of, only to get bigger funding. So the REAL $64.000 question is: Does George W. Bush know the REAL reason for attacking Iraq. I mean, these people got their jobs because they are REALLY GOOD with all this "Cloak and dagger"-stuff. I'm quite sure they can outwit both Georgie and his staff.

sorry for ranting...

[makri]

But Makri does not attack the Bush administration... he says... "U.S."

You can think he´s made a slight unintentioned mistake... well, I can´t be sure, but I think that Makri is just another case of the new fashion who crosses Europe... I hate the U.S.!

You are awfully quick to dismiss everyone who disagree with you as "fashion followers". Maybe you should wake up and realize that most people have good reasons for their opinions. Or are you defending U.S. just because you think it's cool and makes you different?

"U.S. word" naturally stands for the administration - that's what Barcik ment in his post and that's where I replied. I forgive you for your mistake.

[SSH]

Of course, if it's not the real Saddam, all the real one has to do to prove them wrong is get a photo of himself holding the "Santa" picture and laughing taken and distribute it to the world. But thyen, maybe that's what the Americans want: they're staking out every chemists in Iraq, ready to pounce when he goes to get them developed...

[Barcik]

Ok, to make it all clear.

The quoted segment from Debka.com came in response to CJ's post. He said that Saddam was leading the guerilla fight from that hole of his. So, I brought up this theory that he really was being held captive in that hole.

The comment in the end of it had nothing to do with my respone to CJ. It was a respone to people saying that the person shown on footage's is a double. I said that not to accept such a bold fact a person must be seriously prejudiced against the American administration's work. This is not something Bush can be lying about.

[Butcher]

Saddam's captured = Bush will win the elections = what this whole war was all about + enstating a new tyrant that's friendly to the US

Everybody's happy!

except maybe those who died (both American and Iraqi) , and their families.

sorry for being so blunt. That's the way I see things. I'm glad a tyrant has fallen though.

[Nacho]

But Makri does not attack the Bush administration... he says... "U.S."

You can think he´s made a slight unintentioned mistake... well, I can´t be sure, but I think that Makri is just another case of the new fashion who crosses Europe... I hate the U.S.!

You are awfully quick to dismiss everyone who disagree with you as "fashion followers". Maybe you should wake up and realize that most people have good reasons for their opinions. Or are you defending U.S. just because you think it's cool and makes you different?

"U.S. word" naturally stands for the administration - that's what Barcik ment in his post and that's where I replied. I forgive you for your mistake.

I don´t think that I was on a mistake. Anyway, let me explain the thoughts of many of the people who is following this fashioned wave of antiamericanism.

U.S. helped Pinochet.
U.S. armed Iran.
U.S. armed Noriega, and Saddam, and after that, they invent lies to make war against them and earn money.
U.S. help the Jewish, who have stolen the land to the poor Palestinians.
U.S. avoid to war real dictators, because they´re evil and they must be have trats with them.

Well... so, for this antiamericans, no matter which administration rules U.S. they will always look to their actions with unconfidence.

I don´t know if that´s your case, but, in my country, this people finally agree with the enemies of U.S., and they finally celebrate actions against the U.S. or their interests, such as Palestine terrorism or the 11th of September.

I am not saying that you are one of that, but I must face everyday people who says "I was terribly happy when the towers collapsed, they had it deserved", that´s why I´m so sick when I see any expression that reminds me this.

And excuse me man, but you say that you don´t believe the words of Bush when he says they got Saddam, you remind me a lot to that people who really sicks me.

Anyway, I suppose you were jocking... And of course you have the right to judge the U.S., as a Finnish, a country with a noble recent history...


Mmm... a finnish fighter... look at that cross... maybe Finnish don´t should really judge the U.S...

Just kidding  

[Nacho]

Well... Maybe that post before was too "heavy"... I just wanted to say that judging countries is easy... "americans do bad things, they´re evil"

But that who is free of sin, throw the first stone... All the countries behaved terribly when they ruled the Earth, Romans, Greeks, Spanish, Brits...

So... can we really judge a country? I think we can´t.

Well... I´ve finished, you all can start crushing me.

NOW!