AGS 2.8 alpha 8 preview

[Pumaman]

So, 2.72 was released in July, and there have been no new betas since then .. what's been happening for the last 6 months?

Well, partly I've started to get RSI which has meant I've had to severely cut back on my computer use.

But, in the time that I have been using the PC, I've been working on AGS 2.8. What does this have in store? Well, there have been various requests for features in the editor that simply weren't possible because of the editor's design, and its code was so messy that I was having trouble understanding it whenever I had to make updates.

So, I decided it was time to cut the losses and rewrite the editor from scratch. This alpha preview release is earlier on in the development process than where I'd normally unleash something on the public, but since it's a major change I thought it'd be good to get feedback early in case there are any big problems with it.

I've tried to design the new editor to be more Visual Studio-esque, so now rather than having a tree list with the main panes on it, and then sub-lists of Views (for example), it's all combined into a single treeview. You can also open multiple windows.




Requirements

The editor is now written using the .NET Framework 2.0. This is a free download from Microsoft, and it's also on Windows Update.
If you get an error about "mscoree.dll", then that means you are missing the framework.

WHAT??? Does this mean people will need .NET Framework to play my games?

Relax! No, only the editor uses the framework. You'll need it to make games, but the AGS Game Engine does not use .NET and so people will not need it in order to play your games.

What does this alpha release actually do?

It now does most of the main editor functionality.
The following features are NOT yet implemented:
* can't scroll around scrolling room if running editor at 800x600
* Various import and export options
* help file, general help system
* rebuild rooms automatically if script changes


What feedback do you want?

General feedback is welcome (ie. opinions on how the new panes have been designed, etc), along with any bug reports in the functionality that is there. But at the moment please don't make feature requests -- I want to get all the existing functionality implemented before adding anything new.


This alpha should be able to import games from 2.72 -- please try this out. If you get any errors, let me know.
HOWEVER, if you save the game it will overwrite files, so make a copy of your game to load into this version. Do not save over the only copy of your game using this alpha release.

http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/ags28alpha8a.zip

[Rui 'Trovatore' Pires]

Wow. Yet another big change that'll take quite awhile to get used to, but which will, no doubt, prove to be the best decision in the future.

Downloading the newest NET framework from your link, if I have any more comments on this preview I'll let you know.

EDIT - Honestly? I prefer the look and feel of the old one, but then, I've grown fond to it... HOWEVER, I have a feeling I could come to love this new incarnation of AGS. It seems so much more "fluid", and more user-friendly. Oh, and I *love* the handy tips that come up on the statusbar. Great going once again, CJ!

EDIT 2 - Mind you, trying to make a button or a label on a BUI seems to go bad. Ok, I know this is just a test, but thought I'd let you know.

Code: ags

************** Exception Text **************
System.AccessViolationException: Attempted to read or write protected memory. This is often an indication that other memory is corrupt.
   at drawGUIAt(Int32 , Int32 , Int32 , Int32 , Int32 , Int32 , Int32 , Int32 )
   at drawGUI(Int32 hdc, Int32 x, Int32 y, GUI guiObj, Int32 scaleFactor, Int32 selectedControl)
   at AGS.Native.NativeMethods.DrawGUI(Int32 hDC, Int32 x, Int32 y, GUI gui, Int32 scaleFactor, Int32 selectedControl)
   at AGS.Editor.GUIEditor.bgPanel_Paint(Object sender, PaintEventArgs e)
   at System.Windows.Forms.Control.OnPaint(PaintEventArgs e)
   at System.Windows.Forms.Control.PaintWithErrorHandling(PaintEventArgs e, Int16 layer, Boolean disposeEventArgs)
   at System.Windows.Forms.Control.WmPaint(Message& m)
   at System.Windows.Forms.Control.WndProc(Message& m)
   at System.Windows.Forms.ScrollableControl.WndProc(Message& m)
   at System.Windows.Forms.Control.ControlNativeWindow.OnMessage(Message& m)
   at System.Windows.Forms.Control.ControlNativeWindow.WndProc(Message& m)
   at System.Windows.Forms.NativeWindow.Callback(IntPtr hWnd, Int32 msg, IntPtr wparam, IntPtr lparam)


************** Loaded Assemblies **************
mscorlib
    Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0
    Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.42 (RTM.050727-4200)
    CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/Microsoft.NET/Framework/v2.0.50727/mscorlib.dll
----------------------------------------
AGSEditor
    Assembly Version: 2.80.0.1
    Win32 Version: 2.80.0.1
    CodeBase: file:///C:/Documents%20and%20Settings/rui/Ambiente%20de%20trabalho/ags28alpha1/AGSEditor.exe
----------------------------------------
System.Windows.Forms
    Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0
    Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.42 (RTM.050727-4200)
    CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Windows.Forms/2.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Windows.Forms.dll
----------------------------------------

[Gregjazz]

Wow!

I knew you were working on some big update.

[Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens]

I'm quite impressed, CJ.  You've started fixing essentially all of the issues I ever had with the original interface and more.  A few things I'd like to see:

1.  Drag and drop functionality between sprite manager and the view list by allowing you to display both areas simultaneously (like a top pane for the manager and a bottom pane for the views).  Drag and drop functionality between any areas of value in general would be welcome.

2.  An option you can toggle that will auto-load the views based on the structure of the sprite manager (creating the same folder structure and loading in the views from the sprite manager folders).  For people who have structured sprite lists that will save massive amounts of time essentially creating the same layout as they already have.

3.  Dynamic sizing for folder limits and the like (views, etc).  This will greatly benefit those who use very little in the way of folders by reducing the compile size and will equally benefit those of us who need more than the static limits.

4.  An option to tile the tab panes vertically so you can view more than one at once (goes back to option 1).

5.  For the interaction editor I think with the room scripts clearly available you could have scripting to take care of hotspots and regions (your second suggestion), but I would highly recommend making objects a separate entity from rooms at last.  Much like character sprites, it would benefit pretty much everyone if they were independent and could have their settings adjusted outside of a room, and it would also be highly convenient to have them all there in one list.

6.  Folders for dialogs as well, so those can also be categorized by the person speaking.

As for the way the interaction editor itself works now, if each object/character/room has a default script to begin with you could just script the interactions right there in the script.  Perhaps have the default script generate sections and headings for such things (a heading for mouse modes, stepping on regions, the like).

I am greatly impressed by this new direction.  Bravo.

[GarageGothic]

This is going to take a lot of getting used to. But so far I like it. Especially being able to have multiple scripts open at the same time is something I've really missed before.

Is there any way (a hotkey or something) to "replace" a tab instead of opening a new ones all the time? Closing the old ones first seem a bit of a pain.

[strazer]

The .net framework isn't supported by Wine in Linux and probably won't be for quite a while. Looks like I'm stuck with AGS v2.72.

Edit: My best chances seem to be getting .net v1.1 to work. Would that suffice for the AGS editor or do I need v2.0?

[Gregjazz]

In the view manager, it'd be cool if you could double-click on a frame to change its graphics, just like in the old AGS.

[Kweepa]

Awesome stuff!

To make it even more Visual Studio-like:
* ability to rearrange panels (or just switch the tree view from side to side)
* Ctrl-F6, Shift-Ctrl-F6 to switch between tabbed windows
* Ctrl-` (or another hotkey) to switch between source and header (for global script/module script)
* a "More Windows" dialog which shows all open windows and allows you to close/switch to
* buttons to scroll through the tabs

Features:
* a colour selector dialog would be nice, so we wouldn't have to use the colour finder except for scripting (and even then, it would be nice to right click in code, select a colour selector from the right click menu, and paste the selected colour as a comma separated RGB list directly into code)

Bugs:
* the current window's tab isn't always visible if you have a lot of open windows

Feature irritations:
* I know this is a .net control problem, but I hate that to change a drop-down option, you have to select the option, then click on the tiny arrow on the right of the control (or double click to cycle through). Please think about rewriting the drop down control (and its parents?) so that a second click anywhere in the control drops down the list of options!

More later...

[joelphilippage]

Wow I really like the new layout. its a lot easier with the tabs at the top but it will take a little bit to get used to the menu bar being on the right side and not the left.
It looks really great.

[scotch]

Can't you run it at all in Mono (on linux)? I don't know how good the forms support is currently, that was very much in progress when I last looked at it.

If anything, the shift to .net should make the thing more portable once the open source .net implementations are up to scratch. Might suck for non windows for now, though.

I like the new layout, nice work. Lots of ideas but nothing fundemental, so I'll let you get it more fully implemented for now.

[Gilbert]

So, I decided it was time to cut the losses and rewrite the editor from scratch.

Ah well for the third time, at least...

The editor is now written using the .NET Framework 2.0. This is a free download from Microsoft, and it's also on Windows Update.

That means, I won't be able to try it with this computer at work.

Actually what I'm thinking is, if the editor is going through complete overhaul, maybe it's also necessary for the engine, so to fix some of the inconsistencies and limits (like the low game res. which forces placement of objects in even coordinates in a high res. game for example) which may be hard or impossible to solve if we continue with the current codes, maybe it can be done in V3.0 though (without caring for downward compatibilities).

Honestly? I prefer the look and feel of the old one, but then, I've grown fond to it...

I prefer RoomMake (not RoomEdit).


Anyway, I now have reasons good enough to stick to V2.62 from now on.

[R4L]

Lookin good CJ! Hope that RSI doesn't hinder you too much. Can't wait to try it out.

[strazer]

Can't you run it at all in Mono (on linux)? I don't know how good the forms support is currently, that was very much in progress when I last looked at it.

If anything, the shift to .net should make the thing more portable once the open source .net implementations are up to scratch. Might suck for non windows for now, though.

I haven't looked at it that way. For now, it's a Windows application and doesn't run on Linux like that (no .Net-support in Wine), it would need to be ported and I can only hope someone will do that someday.

And before anyone suggests it: No, I won't run a virtual machine and buy a Windows license for just one program.

[AGA]

* Ctrl-F6, Shift-Ctrl-F6 to switch between tabbed windows

Or CTRL-TAB and CTRL-SHIFT-TAB, which most tabbed programmes support.

[Ishmael]

Oi, looking nice. I hope the autocomplete won't be as hopeless as it was before. I mean, if you start typing "but", autocomplete appears, you backspace the word away, and put in partenthesis for example AGS ignores the parenthesis and fills in what's selected in the autocomplete list.

And you better put the Import background etc. buttons back to the room editor, too. I still look for them every time before remembering the options are in the silly menu

[Radiant]

Nice work, CJ!

[monkey0506]

1) It would be nice if there were a prompt to save your scripts when closing (if they have been modified)...
2) Saving the game doesn't appear to actually save changes to the script...?
3) This might just be me/my computer...but autocomplete isn't working?

I can't replicate Rui's problem. I get no errors.

[Khris]

It's you :

It does most of the main editor panes; the following major features are **not** yet implemented:
[...]
* Script editor autocomplete

Great stuff, I love the tabbed editing of multiple things.
One small suggestion: I think the windows should open after a single click on a tree item rather than a double-click.

Great work, looking forward to 2.8 RC1.

[Pumaman]

EDIT 2 - Mind you, trying to make a button or a label on a BUI seems to go bad. Ok, I know this is just a test, but thought I'd let you know.

Thanks for this, you're right. It only happens if you create a GUI from the blank default game; if you load in another game then it seems to work ok. I'll take a look at it.

Edit: My best chances seem to be getting .net v1.1 to work. Would that suffice for the AGS editor or do I need v2.0?

The editor is built with 2.0, so having 1.1 wouldn't work.

Ah well for the third time, at least...

Hehe yes, this is the second time the editor will have been rewritten since AGS 2.0; maybe it is time for the engine to suffer the same fate. However, let's take things one step at a time!

I hope the autocomplete won't be as hopeless as it was before. I mean, if you start typing "but", autocomplete appears, you backspace the word away, and put in partenthesis for example AGS ignores the parenthesis and fills in what's selected in the autocomplete list.

That's not a bug, it's a feature
If you type "SetGameSp" and then press (, it's a shortcut to automatically completing the word and starting the function call.

1) It would be nice if there were a prompt to save your scripts when closing (if they have been modified)...
2) Saving the game doesn't appear to actually save changes to the script...?

Yes, sorry I forgot to mention these in my first post. They need to be implemented.

3) This might just be me/my computer...but autocomplete isn't working?

As KhrisMUC has pointed out, read my first post!

Thanks to everyone for all your feedback so far, I'll bear it in mind whilst continuing development.

[monkey0506]

I did read it. At least twice. But it's not working on my computer. A reboot and a couple of stabs through the power source with sharp blades should help.

[Ghost]

Sweet, though I agree with those saying the new layout might take some getting used to. I instantly liked it; since I always found the floating windows (GUI section) a bit awkward. The way it looks now is slick, consistent and easy on the eye, and it looks more, well, accessible. Modern. Don't know why that should matter (the engine is powerful enough, why make the IDE look goodÃ,  ), but somehow it is quite pleasing...
I'm also quite sure few people will complain the required .Net software- especially since it's not needed to run games. I had no trouble to download the framework and then run the beta, and I could also load 2.72 games.

Good work, really. Not commenting on bugs; I just had a look at the layout yet. Keep it up, and godspeedÃ, 

Ghost out.

[joelphilippage]

When do you thing Ags 2.8 will be done? It looks like you've gotten very far.

[Domino]

Looking great so far CJ. Thanks for doing such a great job with AGS.

[lowesalex]

Hope you feel better with this RSI problem.
And wow,somtimes resting brings up new ideas.

Well I don't have alo of time for reporting so I only found one bug:
-In the GUI editor you can't click a box and press the dell button for deleting in,only right click works.

Anyway:Far out.

keep up the wonderfull work and don't strain yourself.
Your health is more important than AGS and computers in general(I am a PC tech and right now suffering from RSI).

[edmundito]

Very interesting stuff. I'm gone for a few months and the editor is totally changed.

All I would say is... be careful. AGS was easy enough for anyone to use and switching it to a Visual Studio IDE style might be a bit overwhelming. The VS studio style is not too bad, but it does have a lot of random unnecessary options. I would say if you keep it as simple as possible you'll be fine.

My only suggestion is to switch the properties/"solution explorer" to the left side of the screen and put the toolbox on the right side. This would be most familiar with the previous AGS editor, and also Visual Studio Express 2005 has it set up that way and it's nice. (I'm actually writing this reply because I was just doing something on Visual C++ express. Strangely enough, Visual C# express is the other way around...).

I haven't looked at this in detail, but are files going to be separated or is it still going to be one huge file with all the data including the scripts?

[InCreator]

I noticed 2 issues I have to point out:

1) The mouse wheel (to scroll around) doesn't work while script is open (atleast Dialog script). Also, it doesn't work for Main menu. Don't forget to add this, if possible. Especially due much longer main menu.
But this probably needs making either script or menu active to make wheel "understand" what to scroll...
Anyway, this worked in "old" AGS. For everything.

2) Closing a tab should make last tab in row active, not the very first. Atleast to me, it's quite confusing.

ah, and

3) In general settings, "yes" and "no" feels much more reasonable options than "true" and "false".
I can't explain why. But programmers like true/false more, I guess.

Besides this, I like new design very much! Especially the lovely character editor with full overview on sprites.

[pcj]

You've got plugins on the list to re-implement.  How will the switch to .NET affect plugins?

[monkey0506]

When do you thing Ags 2.8 will be done? It looks like you've gotten very far.

[/url]That question is the devil!

Chris will only put it off further now...

In regards to what InCreator said about tab-closing...I think perhaps it should activate the previous tab. That seems less arbitrary than activating the first or last tab.

Also on the subject of tabs...it would be wonderful to see some better handling of multiple tab rows soon.

Thanks a million Chris.

[jkohen]

Can't you run it at all in Mono (on linux)? I don't know how good the forms support is currently, that was very much in progress when I last looked at it.

I haven't looked at it that way. For now, it's a Windows application and doesn't run on Linux like that (no .Net-support in Wine), it would need to be ported and I can only hope someone will do that someday.

No, you are wrong. Mono is not a Windows application. Not only was it actually started by "UNIXers," but it even runs on Windows. Try it for yourself: http://www.mono-project.com/ (already packaged by Debian and other distributions). It might mean that we don't need to use Wine anymore to run the editor.

[strazer]

I meant the AGS editor, not Mono.

[Pumaman]

The way it looks now is slick, consistent and easy on the eye, and it looks more, well, accessible. Modern. Don't know why that should matter (the engine is powerful enough, why make the IDE look good   ), but somehow it is quite pleasing

Whilst it shouldn't matter, in reality if the editor looks retro and quaint it will put people off. But more importantly than that, it has some really annoying features such as the way you can only open one script at a time, which wouldn't be possible to fix easily with the current editor's design.

When do you thing Ags 2.8 will be done? It looks like you've gotten very far.

You should know better than to ask that question!

Yes, a lot of work has been done. But bear in mind, it has been done over the last 6 months, not overnight. There is still a lot to do, so I expect it will take a good few months to get to Beta stage.

-In the GUI editor you can't click a box and press the dell button for deleting in,only right click works.

Thanks for that, I added the "Del" text to the menu but forgot to actually link in the key  :

All I would say is... be careful. AGS was easy enough for anyone to use and switching it to a Visual Studio IDE style might be a bit overwhelming. The VS studio style is not too bad, but it does have a lot of random unnecessary options. I would say if you keep it as simple as possible you'll be fine.

I agree that it needs to be kept simple; the way I see it, the new design is more intuitive than the old one, since you don't have to try and find things like where the "New GUI" button is hidden, and all the different components work the same way so it's more consistent with itself.

I haven't looked at this in detail, but are files going to be separated or is it still going to be one huge file with all the data including the scripts?

My current plan is that all the data except the scripts will be stored in one file; each script will be stored in a separate file on disk since this is something people have asked for. Additionally, when source control integration is added, having scripts in separate files makes them much easier to compare with previous versions and see changes.

1) The mouse wheel (to scroll around) doesn't work while script is open (atleast Dialog script). Also, it doesn't work for Main menu. Don't forget to add this, if possible. Especially due much longer main menu.
But this probably needs making either script or menu active to make wheel "understand" what to scroll...
Anyway, this worked in "old" AGS. For everything.

The mouse wheel does work, you just need to click in the window that you want to scroll to activate it first. This is standard Windows behaviour.

You've got plugins on the list to re-implement.  How will the switch to .NET affect plugins?

Normal plugins will still be supported and work identically to how they do now.
However, support for COM plugins will be removed. I don't know of any COM plugins having actually been released, and to be honest it was a bit of a failed experiment. It required a lot of work from my end to implement and in order to provide useful functionality to the plugins, would have required a lot more work.
Once the new editor is finished, I'm planning to add a new .NET plugin system, which would be similar to the idea behind the old COM plugins but more powerful and easier to use.

If anything, the shift to .net should make the thing more portable once the open source .net implementations are up to scratch. Might suck for non windows for now, though.

Yeah, it should be easier to run the new editor through something like Mono. However, the editor still relies on a native code DLL that does the GUI and Font rendering (it uses the same C++ code as the engine, in order to assure WYSIWYG), so I'm not sure whether this has implications for running it on other platforms.

[Dusk]

I'd particularly welcome feedback on how the interaction editor should work. I'm not sure whether to re-implement it in its current form, get rid of it completely, or try to turn it into some sort of script-editing GUI that interprets and generates script code.

Epic CJ, I'm in a sad no-AGS-many-exams time, and haven't tried yet this revolutionary alpha, but I decided to write you my opinion about the interaction editor.
- re-implement it in its current form: no
- get rid of it completely: would be ok for me, but I can see it might be losing an attractive feature for new users
- turn it into some sort of script interpreter/generator: this would be the best thing, as long as ALL is code-doable. Maybe I already wrote this once, but the only thing I really don't like in AGS scripting is the necessity to have an empty strange-name-run_script-function generated for a specific interaction and not being able to directly write in the script editor something such as
myObject.onLookAt() { //code here}

If I can directly write (and why not generate from custom tools and then paste?) my function in the editor, and the code just works, it would be great.
If an interaction editor is able to parse the code and generate a visual resume of the interactions, well, it would be a cool add-on, but I can live without it.

Just my 2 cents! And as I always say, thankyou for your constant work on improving AGS from me and the others SOTE-guys 

[Rui 'Trovatore' Pires]

I lived very comfortably with the interaction editor. It had a HUGE advantage from my POV - if I made entries in the script manually (not that it was allowed, but if I did) I'd certainly skip over something. With the IE, I can take a quick look and check which interaction I left un-interacted-with. I know it's not much, but it's a big deal to me. Similarly, this quick visual-checkup has helped me many times before - for instance, when something wrong is happening at the beginning of the room script. One quick look at the IE and I find whether there IS or there ISN't an interaction that may be causing a problem (are all "Before room" events blank? Then it's probably not the problem). In a regular script, browsing would be a bit more of a hassle.

These are my 2 cents, and this is my request - expand on the editor if you will, but please don't remove it alltogether. I only use it for scripting, too, but this visual layout is very handy.

[voh]

I love the Interaction Editor, because it provides an easy way of doing things while I'm scriptically challenged. I see it as an introduction course to how scripts work, and I think it is one of the most userfriendly and attractive features of AGS as it is now.

Forcing all users to use code will put off some new users, I can guarantee you that. AGS is great because it's so easy to get something done. You want more? Go script! But at least you have the opportunity to create a game with little effort outside of graphics, which happens to be my only strong point.

Re-implement it as it is now? No, I wouldn't. How to imporove on it? *thinks* *opens AGS*

Actually, the way it works now isn't very userfriendly, but it's easy and clear enough to figure out quite quickly. What would probably be best, is to allow users to set specific commands to specific actions. With a good script editor and a context help system (like, when you have your cursor on playvideo, and you press F1, it gives you the help entry for playvideo, so you can easily check the syntax for it) would probably be enough. While this would call for coding it all rather than pointing and clicking, the added support and clear instructions would cancel that out.

Can't think of a better way. What I loved most about QB4.5, was that you could go into the help index, look up commands, but if you wanted to use, say, view, you could just type it, press F1 and you'd immediately see how view has to be used, with syntax and examples.

Best route, if you ask me

[Pumaman]

Just to keep you up to date, Alpha 2 is now up.

It implements the room editor, plugins and custom properties.
It also now allows Ctrl+Tab, Ctrl+Shift+Tab and Ctrl+F4 to navigate tabs, and better tab management.
A couple of other minor changes: DEL now works as shortcut key in GUI and View editors, and double-click in view editor to change sprite


The major features that still need to be done are saving rooms and compiling game EXE files, the script editor autocomplete and the interaction editor.

Thanks for your feedback on the interaction editor so far, if anyone else has any comments before I decide a way forward and start doing it, please do post your tuppence-worth here.

[Rui 'Trovatore' Pires]

Er, naturally, you do plan to re-add the visible mouse coordinates when editing a room AND still right-click for getting the coordinates, especially now that it can be done when, say, objects are being displayed...

...right?

EDIT - Accourse you will, I know you will. Anyway, teensy bug report you may or may not be aware of -

I played around, in the view editor, with clicking on "new loop" and "delete last loop" many times. Visually, it all got rather weird, like... heck, give it a go yourself - make a new view, add as many loops as you can, and see how weird the distances get. Then start deleting loops, and see what happens as you do.

EDIT 2 - *coughcough* Naturally, not seeing a placeholder for "preview animation" in the view manager doesn't mean there won't be such a feature, ayuh?

[Lt. Smash]

a feature that should be implemented in v2.8 is that you can make overlapping hotspots, regions, walkable areas and walkbehinds.
for example:
              Hotspot1 is marked                                            Hotspot2 is marked


That's very important if you have for example a room like this:



where you can walk under the bridge and on the bridge

[Gregjazz]

I guess the difficult thing about overlapping hotspots/walkable areas is that when you use the GetHotspotAt function (or the newer scripting equivalent) and it can only return a single value. Unless there was some sort of Z order like there is with the GUIs...

What's really useful about overlapping hotspots/walkable areas is when one is disabled, it won't inhibit the capable area of another hotspot or walkable area.

All in all, this new alpha is looking great!!

[Rui 'Trovatore' Pires]

I once had a problem with two "layers" of hotspots overlapping. I simply created a third hotspot where they connected, and made appropriate checks.

Seeing as it's workaroundable and a very specific and not so common use of the areas, I shouldn't think it's a priority...

EDIT - Another lil' issue, I opened up a (copied and backuped) copy of a project of mine, with a 800x600 GUI (it's one of those fullscreen panels, you know). I'm running WinXP at 1024x768, and it's a bit of a pain to edit that GUI. Previously, we saw the whole thing (if we didn't we could scroll) and we could move the "properties" window around. Now we can't scroll (which is unfortunate - but is it something you were going to look into anyway?) and the window isn't detacheable. Is it going to be the way it is now? Are you still going to change something?

Also - the game is 800x600, and there's text on the GUI I just mentioned. JUST AFTER opening the game on the new alpha, I took a look at the GUI and saw the letters quite small, as though I had told the game that I didn't want them to scale up at 640x480. Which I didn't, because right now I DO want them to scale up. Then I checked the fonts, then I checked general settings - in neither of them did I do much of anything - and then I got back to the GUI editing tab, double-clicking on the GUI in the panel on the right (rather than on the tab). And now I see the font displays properly. I don't know what caused this, exactly, and it's not exactly major, but I thought you might like to know about it.

[deltamatrix]

Just curious here.

I noticed the AGS Editor takes longer to load than before.
Is this just a side effect of the .NET framework?

[Rui 'Trovatore' Pires]

I'll keep writing these as new posts for as long as someone posts in-between, otherwise some edit may be overlooked... I know you may be aware of all these things I'm saying, but then again, you may not be, so I hope I'm doing the right thing by saying them.

So, I have a character/view/whatever. I double click on it, and the tab opens, and the properties window at the bottom-right fills up with info. But if I then click in ANY other item of the navigator panel at the top-right, the properties window blanks outs. Which makes sense. But if I click or double-click or whatever on the character/view/whatever whose tab is currently open, in order to edit/view said properties, the properties won't open. I have to open something else and THEN re-open the thing whose properties I want to see/edit. I can't see how this can have been intentional on your part, as it's unnecessary burden on the game maker, so I rather assume it just escaped your hawk-like vision for now.

EDIT - Ok, matter of preference now, but it's starting to bother me how much smaller all the graphics are... ok, maybe it's because the game is 800x600, but even at this res, the "old" AGS didn't give me as much eye-strain as I have now trying to pin-point the hotspot on the cursor.

And no, I'm not actually using it to actually work on the actual game, I'm just exploring it as much as I can while it's still being developed.

[Pumaman]

Er, naturally, you do plan to re-add the visible mouse coordinates when editing a room AND still right-click for getting the coordinates, especially now that it can be done when, say, objects are being displayed...

I see you've spotted my cunning trick of working out whether people use a feature by removing it and seeing if anyone complains that it's missing 

I played around, in the view editor, with clicking on "new loop" and "delete last loop" many times. Visually, it all got rather weird, like... heck, give it a go yourself - make a new view, add as many loops as you can, and see how weird the distances get. Then start deleting loops, and see what happens as you do.

Hmm yeah that is wierd, I'll have a look at it.

Naturally, not seeing a placeholder for "preview animation" in the view manager doesn't mean there won't be such a feature, ayuh?

Yeah, the problem is I can't see any obvious place to put the preview window on the View Editor (unlike the Character Editor, where it fits neatly). I don't really want it to be a popup window like in the old editor, because that'd seem rather out of keeping with the new design.

a feature that should be implemented in v2.8 is that you can make overlapping hotspots, regions, walkable areas and walkbehinds.

At the moment AGS stores these masks as a single bitmap, where each pixel can belong to one area; therefore it'd be a big job to change how this works and allow overlapping areas. As Rui says, when this situation does crop up, it's easy enough to create a third area where they intersect, and have the script behave appropriately.

All in all, this new alpha is looking great!!

Thanks, I hope people are starting to warm to the design of it now. Change is always scary, but in this case I think it'll make the editor more intuitive and easier to work with.

Another lil' issue, I opened up a (copied and backuped) copy of a project of mine, with a 800x600 GUI (it's one of those fullscreen panels, you know). I'm running WinXP at 1024x768, and it's a bit of a pain to edit that GUI. Previously, we saw the whole thing (if we didn't we could scroll) and we could move the "properties" window around. Now we can't scroll (which is unfortunate - but is it something you were going to look into anyway?) and the window isn't detacheable. Is it going to be the way it is now? Are you still going to change something?

I'm not sure whether the best solution here would be to make the GUI area scrollable, or whether to scrap the toolbox on the left hand side and move its functionality into the toolbar (like how the hotspot/region editing works). Any preferences?

Also - the game is 800x600, and there's text on the GUI I just mentioned. JUST AFTER opening the game on the new alpha, I took a look at the GUI and saw the letters quite small, as though I had told the game that I didn't want them to scale up at 640x480. Which I didn't, because right now I DO want them to scale up.

Interesting, I'll look into it.

I noticed the AGS Editor takes longer to load than before.
Is this just a side effect of the .NET framework? 

Probably, yes. .NET applications have to be compiled as well as loaded at runtime, so it will be a bit slower. As long as the performance within the editor is ok, I'm not too worried about it taking an extra second or two to load.

So, I have a character/view/whatever. I double click on it, and the tab opens, and the properties window at the bottom-right fills up with info. But if I then click in ANY other item of the navigator panel at the top-right, the properties window blanks outs. Which makes sense. But if I click or double-click or whatever on the character/view/whatever whose tab is currently open, in order to edit/view said properties, the properties won't open. I have to open something else and THEN re-open the thing whose properties I want to see/edit.

Yes, I've noticed this too. You have to find a bit of background of the pane to click on, then the properties will come back (eg. in a View pane it's quite easy to get them back, with Characters it's harder).
There's a bug somewhere here, I need to look into it.

Ok, matter of preference now, but it's starting to bother me how much smaller all the graphics are... ok, maybe it's because the game is 800x600, but even at this res, the "old" AGS didn't give me as much eye-strain as I have now trying to pin-point the hotspot on the cursor.

Are you referring to any particular part of the editor or just generally? The hotspot editor displays the room background at the same size as the old editor did.

[Rui 'Trovatore' Pires]

I see you've spotted my cunning trick of working out whether people use a feature by removing it and seeing if anyone complains that it's missing

There's only so much we can let you get away with!

Yeah, the problem is I can't see any obvious place to put the preview window on the View Editor (unlike the Character Editor, where it fits neatly). I don't really want it to be a popup window like in the old editor, because that'd seem rather out of keeping with the new design.

To be honest, if you want to avoid a pop-up window I can't really think of a better place either (and I agree that it's fabulous on the Characters pane, are you planning on adding Idle previews for completeness' sake?). I suppose opening up a whole new tab especifically for previewing would be silly, but I can't think of a better solution... but I'd be sorry to see the feature go, really. Heh, it's been coming and going for years, really!

I'm not sure whether the best solution here would be to make the GUI area scrollable, or whether to scrap the toolbox on the left hand side and move its functionality into the toolbar (like how the hotspot/region editing works). Any preferences?

Well, because I'm used to the way AGS currently works, I tend to preffer scrollability. But I have to say that moving them to the toolbar also seems like a good decision. That left-hand bar is a bit too empty for its height.

On the subject of GUIs, I noticed we can now create a text-window GUI from the word go, as it were - create it already as such. But apart from the layout of the newly created GUI, I didn't really spot anything that marked that difference once it was done. Did I miss something, or did you not think it was enough of a deal (seeing as the GUIs will probably get aptly named)?

Are you referring to any particular part of the editor or just generally? The hotspot editor displays the room background at the same size as the old editor did.

Well, generally it looks like the sprite graphics are a bit smaller (GUIs, inv, everything but the room graphics) - and less blocky, obviously) - but generally it doesn't bother me. But I did like double-clicking on an item in the sprite manager and seeing a close-up... and specifically, and the reason I posted this, the images in the "cursors" pane - walk, look, examine, whatever - all look smaller. Now, when I want to pin-point the hotspot on the cursor, it's a bit of an eye strain, whereas AGS used to give me a rather magnified image of the cursor, making it much easier and more comfortable.

Now for an unrelated question - you've said this version will eliminate some limits. I don't suppose that includes the little pixel-accuracy problem when dealing with 640+ res? Just curious. Mind you, I'm also curious as to whether it will make it easier to change room/object/whatever custom properties at runtime, and as to whether it will... I'll shut up now, I think I'm starting to drool in antecipation.

Re everything else you said - glad to hear I'm being helpful, as opposed to nagging.

And of course, how could I forget to say - great work, nay, extraordinary. Congrafatabulations.

[SSH]

When I try the "add to source control" option, I get a clearcase errror... can you throw some light on the source control support?

I can't fathom how this is related to Rui's error, though...

[Rui 'Trovatore' Pires]

CJ and SSH - the error SSH reported seems related to the first error I reported in this thread. And it seems that it only happens when on a new GUI, if you load a GUI and try and create a control it'll all be allright. Hope you didn't think you had fixed that...

[voh]

It would be great, by the way, if it were possible to zoom in when drawing hotspots - and to have the cursor actually draw where you're holding it. Now, I get mixed results because it's usually a line lower than what I'm aiming at, and it's hard to make well-fitting hotspots without being able to zoom in on my tiny 320x240 backgrounds

[Pumaman]

On the subject of GUIs, I noticed we can now create a text-window GUI from the word go, as it were - create it already as such. But apart from the layout of the newly created GUI, I didn't really spot anything that marked that difference once it was done. Did I miss something, or did you not think it was enough of a deal (seeing as the GUIs will probably get aptly named)?

That's a fair point, I guess it should probably say "TextWindow GUI" as the property window title at least.

Well, generally it looks like the sprite graphics are a bit smaller (GUIs, inv, everything but the room graphics) - and less blocky, obviously) - but generally it doesn't bother me.

The GUI and room graphics are definitely the same size; however it's possible that the cursor graphics are not as magnified as they were in the previous editor, I'll check it.

Now for an unrelated question - you've said this version will eliminate some limits. I don't suppose that includes the little pixel-accuracy problem when dealing with 640+ res? Just curious. Mind you, I'm also curious as to whether it will make it easier to change room/object/whatever custom properties at runtime, and as to whether it will..

Please don't twist my words -- when I said limits, I meant limits like "Thou shalt only have 500 views" and "Thou shalt only have 100 sprites per folder". Not just random feature requests

Please bear in mind I'm basically aiming not to change the engine at all for this release, to go for as low-risk approach as possible. So any changes that would require the game engine to be updated are unlikely to be put into this release.

When I try the "add to source control" option, I get a clearcase errror... can you throw some light on the source control support?

The source control support is not yet fully implemented, so it won't actually add any files to source control at the moment (though it will create a folder).
AGS uses your PC's default source control provider, so if you have visual studio installed this will probably be SourceSafe, it sounds like you have the Rational suite installed so you're getting ClearCase.

AGS will use it in the same way that Visual Studio does, ie. allow you to check in/out the various files that make up your game. But obviously, in order to take advantage of this feature, you'd need a source control repository set up on your PC. This is fairly easy to do with SourceSafe, I don't know about ClearCase but I imagine it's more involved.

CJ and SSH - the error SSH reported seems related to the first error I reported in this thread. And it seems that it only happens when on a new GUI, if you load a GUI and try and create a control it'll all be allright. Hope you didn't think you had fixed that...

The crash you posted when creating a button/label/etc happens if there are no fonts in the game (it tries to draw the "New Button" text and dies). I won't be fixing it, because for the final version you'll have to go through a "new game/load game" welcome screen which will ensure that a game will always be loaded with some fonts in it.

It would be great, by the way, if it were possible to zoom in when drawing hotspots - and to have the cursor actually draw where you're holding it. Now, I get mixed results because it's usually a line lower than what I'm aiming at, and it's hard to make well-fitting hotspots without being able to zoom in on my tiny 320x240 backgrounds

I can appreciate this -- but as I said, please hold off with feature requests for now. Once I get everything implemented to be on a par with the 2.72 editor then we can consider adding new editor features that were too difficult to do with the previous version.

[Kweepa]

The source control support is not yet fully implemented, so it won't actually add any files to source control at the moment (though it will create a folder).

It pops up a perforce connection window here. So that part seems to work.

[voh]

I can appreciate this -- but as I said, please hold off with feature requests for now. Once I get everything implemented to be on a par with the 2.72 editor then we can consider adding new editor features that were too difficult to do with the previous version.

A thousand times sorry, I had missed that request. I will keep my piehole neatly shut, and revel in the knowledge that I made a fairly semi-decent point, which was simply badly timed 

[subspark]

One request I have is the ability to resize boxes and text windows from every corner. Not just from the bottom right.

Also, when positioning for example an inventory box in the GUI editor, on the left hand side, the borders of the item jump a pixel when trying to stretch it evenly on both sides to the edge of the window space.

EDIT: To reiterate with more clarity, I noticed this phenominon presents itself when dragging 'anything' around. Items seems to jump a pixel no matter where you drag them. I beleive a 2 pixel drag grid is unecissary.

Cheers,
Paul W.

PS: Don't worry, not only programmers get RSI. Artists too. Your not alone in the world of computer entertainment.

[Gilbert]

EDIT: To reiterate with more clarity, I noticed this phenominon presents itself when dragging 'anything' around. Items seems to jump a pixel no matter where you drag them. I beleive a 2 pixel drag grid is unecissary.

Are your game in hi-res (640/800) ? In that case that "jump" is necessary since it's how hi-res stuff placement is handled at the moment.

[LimpingFish]

Am I alone in thinking that the editor is sufficent as is, and that the engine would benefit more from some tweaking?

All this extra work on the editor is great, but it's not really going to have much impact on finished games (apart from a change in the creation workflow), and we're still left with people moaning about the niggling little problems with the engine.

I realise this makes me sound awfully ungrateful for CJ's hard work, and I'm sure he's planning to get to the engine, so I'll stop now.

[monkey0506]

Am I alone in thinking that the editor is sufficent as is, and that the engine would benefit more from some tweaking?

All this extra work on the editor is great, but it's not really going to have much impact on finished games (apart from a change in the creation workflow), and we're still left with people moaning about the niggling little problems with the engine.

I realise this makes me sound awfully ungrateful for CJ's hard work, and I'm sure he's planning to get to the engine, so I'll stop now.

Yes. You are *very* alone. For you see, the rest of us have read what CJ actually had to say about this Editor update:

Well, there have been various requests for features in the editor that simply weren't possible because of the editor's design, and its code was so messy that I was having trouble understanding it whenever I had to make updates.

Not to mention the fact that he said it would remove most of the system limits.

On a side note...I've only for the first time realized the word "not" in the posts regarding my previous posts about the script auto-complete. Interesting the way sometimes those words just disappear somewhere between my eyes and brain.

[pcj]

Actually, I think both the editor and the engine could use some work.  Let's hope the engine is next.

[Pumaman]

Partly it's psychological. Re-writing the editor can be done gradually, adding more functionality bit by bit and seeing it work. Also, there's quite a bit of freedom when designing the new version since it doesn't have to work identically to the old one.

A rewrite of the engine would be harder for two main reasons:
1. It would have to behave identically to the current version, for backwards compatibility. Even the most minor difference could lead to games not working properly, so it would need a lot of effort to make sure it ran as expected.
2. It's more of a big-bang approach. You pretty much need to implement the entire thing before you can see tangiable benefits.

Having said that, this re-write of the editor should ease the process of re-writing the engine, should that happen in future. The 2.72 editor is quite strictly tied to the engine file formats, whereas the 2.8 editor uses its own data structures and will then 'compile' them into the engine formats when you save the game. Therefore this process could easily be replaced with a different 'compiler' to save the game differently for a new engine.

But please don't take this as a promise to re-write the engine, let's take things one step at a time.

[Ghost]

You should never forget that it's YOUR program, and we're just the spoiled brats that nag all the time 

Honestly, I'm still 100% sure that the AGS engine is without peer when it comes to sheer amount of features, and the new editor looks as if it's to increase the acceptance of more recent designers by adding a nice look, consistent gui and other cosmetical stuff. So what could we ask more?

[pcj]

Does the new engine HAVE to be able to run old games?  I mean, even Microsoft eventually realized that backwards-compatibility was limiting forward progress.

[LimpingFish]

Roll on AGS 3.0!

Yes, the reason for rewriting the editor before the engine is clearer to me now. So I'll just be in this corner. Over here. For now. Here. Um...

LimpingFish runs.

[pmprog]

Some bugs, if you're not aware of them...

1)

After loading, if you right click on Fonts, and add a new font, then double-click on "0: Font 0", I get the following exception-

System.AccessViolationException: Attempted to read or write protected memory. This is often an indication that other memory was corrupt.
  at drawFontAt(Int32, Int32, Int32, Int32)
  at AGS.Native.NativeMethods.DrawFont(Int32 hDC, Int32 x, Int32 y, Int32 fontNum)
  at AGS.Editor.FontEditor.imagePanel_Paint(Object sender, PaintEventArgs e)
...
...


2)
Right click Views, and select New View. Double click "1: View 1", click the "Create New Loop" 8 times. The last loop erm, "row" is offsetted wrong, and the spacing between rows get progressively further apart as more are added.


Looking good! Keep up the good work!

[Pumaman]

After loading, if you right click on Fonts, and add a new font, then double-click on "0: Font 0", I get the following exception-

There are various problems if you try to use the empty game that is loaded at startup. Please test it out by making a copy of a game that you have, and importing that.


Alpha 3 is now out; it adds and fixes various things:
* Script compiler added, along with a new "Build" option
* Autocomplete added to script editor
* Interactions for inventory and characters are conveted to script
* Initial source control implementation, should be able to check in and out the main game files
* New icons by Klaus
* Removed the toolbox in the GUI editor and moved the icons to the toolbar
* Fixed view editor going wierd when adding enough loops that the screen needed to scroll
* Fixed the "fonts designed for 640x480" setting not being properly respected in the GUI Editor
* The GUI editor property grid now has "(TextWindowGUI)" as the title for text windows.
* You can now edit multiple room scripts at the same time
* Renaming rooms now works

Things that I'd like you guys to test:
1. Does the script compiler still work? Can you import and successfully compile your game?
2. How is autocomplete looking? There are probably some bits of it that I've forgotten, so let me know of any situations where it used to work but doesn't now.
3. Interactions for inventory and characters will be converted to script functions. (There is no interaction editor now; instead, the "Events" pane of the property window is where you'll find the relevant bits). Do the generated scripts look reasonable?
4. Source control -- if anyone does have any source control software installed on their PC, I'd appreciate it if you'd give the feature a quick try.

[Rui 'Trovatore' Pires]

* Removed the toolbox in the GUI editor and moved the icons to the toolbar

Ah, it's so much better now! Thanks a lot!

EDIT - I see you've changed GUI Buttons' "x" and "y" names to "left" and "top". I wonder if it might not be confusing... ah well, I'll see what other people think.

Say, I had a couple of buttons very carefully placed behind some labels, and it seems their position has changed a bit. Their *coordinates* are the same in both the new build and the last version... but in the editor they are clearly in different places. I have a label with 5 words, and have 5 buttons behind each word in the label, and now they don't line up anymore. Could it be related in any way to this new editor's font processing, or something? Does it process fonts the same way as the old one did?

EDIT 2 - Double-clicking on buttons no longer brings up the relevant bit on the script, is this yet to implement or are you planning to do away with it? Also, it seems that no button/script association was imported correctly, all the OnClick events for my buttons are empty.

EDIT 3 - Oh, forgot - for me, everything compiles nicely, but I'm not really taxing AGS with this project in any way except maybe graphically. Also, the autocomplete looks a lot fancier, neater, and helpfull-er.

EDIT 4 - Are we supposed to be able to open AGF files? Because trying to open the Game.agf file that got made after I imported my game came up with the following error:

---------------------------
Adventure Game Studio
---------------------------
An unexpected error occurred. Please note down the following information and contact CJ.



System.IO.FileNotFoundException: Could not find file 'C:\Documents and Settings\rui\Ambiente de trabalho\ags28alpha3\Brass Tacks\Module0.ash'.

File name: 'C:\Documents and Settings\rui\Ambiente de trabalho\ags28alpha3\Brass Tacks\Module0.ash'

   at System.IO.__Error.WinIOError(Int32 errorCode, String maybeFullPath)

   at System.IO.FileStream.Init(String path, FileMode mode, FileAccess access, Int32 rights, Boolean useRights, FileShare share, Int32 bufferSize, FileOptions options, SECURITY_ATTRIBUTES secAttrs, String msgPath, Boolean bFromProxy)

   at System.IO.FileStream..ctor(String path, FileMode mode, FileAccess access, FileShare share, Int32 bufferSize, FileOptions options)

   at System.IO.StreamReader..ctor(String path, Encoding encoding, Boolean detectEncodingFromByteOrderMarks, Int32 bufferSize)

   at System.IO.StreamReader..ctor(String path)

   at AGS.Types.Script..ctor(XmlNode node)

   at AGS.Types.Scripts..ctor(XmlNode node)

   at AGS.Types.Game.FromXml(XmlNode node)

   at AGS.Editor.AGSEditor.LoadGameFile(String fileName)

   at AGS.Editor.Components.FileCommandsComponent.LoadGameFromDisk(String gameToLoad)

   at AGS.Editor.Components.FileCommandsComponent.CommandClick(String controlID)

   at AGS.Editor.GUIController._mainForm_OnMenuClick(String menuItemID)

   at AGS.Editor.MainMenuManager.MenuEventHandler(Object sender, EventArgs e)

   at System.Windows.Forms.ToolStripItem.RaiseEvent(Object key, EventArgs e)

   at System.Windows.Forms.ToolStripMenuItem.OnClick(EventArgs e)

   at System.Windows.Forms.ToolStripItem.HandleClick(EventArgs e)

   at System.Windows.Forms.ToolStripItem.HandleMouseUp(MouseEventArgs e)

   at System.Windows.Forms.ToolStripItem.FireEventInteractive(EventArgs e, ToolStripItemEventType met)

   at System.Windows.Forms.ToolStripItem.FireEvent(EventArgs e, ToolStripItemEventType met)

   at System.Windows.Forms.ToolStrip.OnMouseUp(MouseEventArgs mea)

   at System.Windows.Forms.ToolStripDropDown.OnMouseUp(MouseEventArgs mea)

   at System.Windows.Forms.Control.WmMouseUp(Message& m, MouseButtons button, Int32 clicks)

   at System.Windows.Forms.Control.WndProc(Message& m)

   at System.Windows.Forms.ScrollableControl.WndProc(Message& m)

   at System.Windows.Forms.ToolStrip.WndProc(Message& m)

   at System.Windows.Forms.ToolStripDropDown.WndProc(Message& m)

   at System.Windows.Forms.Control.ControlNativeWindow.OnMessage(Message& m)

   at System.Windows.Forms.Control.ControlNativeWindow.WndProc(Message& m)

   at System.Windows.Forms.NativeWindow.Callback(IntPtr hWnd, Int32 msg, IntPtr wparam, IntPtr lparam)
---------------------------
OK   
---------------------------

[Pumaman]

EDIT - I see you've changed GUI Buttons' "x" and "y" names to "left" and "top". I wonder if it might not be confusing... ah well, I'll see what other people think.

Yeah, this is just to be more "standard" since it's the way that the latest Visual Studio-type products phrase things. They can always be renamed back if they cause confusion.

Their *coordinates* are the same in both the new build and the last version... but in the editor they are clearly in different places. I have a label with 5 words, and have 5 buttons behind each word in the label, and now they don't line up anymore. Could it be related in any way to this new editor's font processing, or something? Does it process fonts the same way as the old one did?

Hmm, are you using TTF fonts? I think the TTF sizing might be off in this editor, I'll need to look into it.

EDIT 2 - Double-clicking on buttons no longer brings up the relevant bit on the script, is this yet to implement or are you planning to do away with it? Also, it seems that no button/script association was imported correctly, all the OnClick events for my buttons are empty.

Thanks for reporting these, I'll look at them.

EDIT 4 - Are we supposed to be able to open AGF files? Because trying to open the Game.agf file that got made after I imported my game came up with the following error:

Well spotted, thanks, it seems module scripts aren't being saved after import (neither is the global script header, for that matter). I'll look into it.

[Rui 'Trovatore' Pires]

Hmm, are you using TTF fonts? I think the TTF sizing might be off in this editor, I'll need to look into it.

Ayuh, it was a TTF font.

As for everything else, glad to have been of service, as always.

EDIT -

3. Interactions for inventory and characters will be converted to script functions. (There is no interaction editor now; instead, the "Events" pane of the property window is where you'll find the relevant bits). Do the generated scripts look reasonable?

I'd forgotten to check this. Looks great to me, but I'd like to point out that, similar to the GUI buttons, there are no associations - I mean, the interactions that I HAD defined still appear on the field, but when I click the elipsis button it creates a brand new section on the script. Not only that, by scrolling only a few lines up I can see the lines that I HAD programmed for that interaction. So it's still there, just not associated.

[Ghost]

It seems to be quite robust. I imported a 2.72 project and played around with it, "ran" it, and everything a normal user would do worked fine. Script compiling caused hardly any trouble even thouhg there is a whole jumple of plugins in that game- SSH's "multiple idle views" and "animated inventory", plus a lot of scripting to handle inventory clicks. The beta took it all with just some minor corrections.

I must say that I really like the way everything works now; it IS a big change in look and feel, but the new design is functional, not just modernised, and the page switching alone is a great thing. It's like watching the original Star Trek episodes, and then watching Next GenÃ,  ;DÃ, 

Two things I'd just like to write down, even though this is an early stage alpha and all: Please make AGS remember its window state, so that it starts maximised when we left it that way.
Plus, why not keep the old logo screen? The new one looks a bit awkward- that's just my personal oppinion, thoughÃ, 

Keep up the great work!

[Gregjazz]

Right off the bat, I love all the new art, the opening screen as well as the new editor icons!

[Kweepa]

I installed perforce at home (it's free for up to two users on one code depot) to test out the SCC integration.
It nearly worked, but the missing asc and ash files caused the initial submit to fail.

Also, it seems the editor can't work with locked files (submitting files to perforce locks them):

Code: ags

System.UnauthorizedAccessException: Access to the path 'C:\dev\ags28alpha3\Maya\room1.asc' is denied.
   at AGS.Editor.BusyDialog._timer_Tick(Object sender, EventArgs e)

Are you planning to allow that, and automatically check them out when editing starts?

Awesome stuff though. Development will be much more comfortable (for me) with multiple windows and SCC!

[Traveler]

Their *coordinates* are the same in both the new build and the last version... but in the editor they are clearly in different places. I have a label with 5 words, and have 5 buttons behind each word in the label, and now they don't line up anymore. Could it be related in any way to this new editor's font processing, or something? Does it process fonts the same way as the old one did?

Hmm, are you using TTF fonts? I think the TTF sizing might be off in this editor, I'll need to look into it.

At the risk of looking silly for stating something obvious: font rendering under .Net is very different from the normal Win32 font renderer - I had similar problems when I was working on a paint program. Text width & height values don't necessarily match the rendered text on screen for various reasons. Maybe there is a solution but after roundly cursing Microsoft and Bill Gates for a while back then I didn't find any. MSDN does have some articles on this.

Feel free to ignore this, since this is a .Net problem; if you use a 3rd party library, it may not apply.

[SSH]

AGS_MAX_GUIS, AGS_MAX_CONTROLS_PER_GUI,  aren't defined when I build, although they seem to be in the autocomplete... probably because I manually added them to get it to build...


Also, I wonder if americangirlscouts.org are going to set up a subversion server for AGS projects now...

[monkey0506]

I don't see those values in autocomplete SSH...maybe it's just you.

I like the new autocomplete...but I see "true" autocompleting twice. I especially like the fact that it registers all of the reserved keywords as well as macros (#define-s). It apparently even picks up on my own custom-defined macros which is wonderful. It does however register the keyword "attribute". That's not one that we can make any effective use of...considering what it does...or can we?

I have a question about the way character and inventory interactions are converted into script functions though: Is this going to be the actual function that is called (like the way that GUIControl clicks are run), effectively obsoleting the "character1_a", "inventory5_c" functions? Because that would be absolutely brilliant.

I see that there is a "Close all others" option to close all tabs except the active one. It would be nice (IMO) if there were a "Close all" option.

I've noticed that though you can see the ZOrder for GUIControls, you can't directly modify it. You couldn't in AGS 2.72 either...which I didn't actually realize until I looked. And I know this isn't supposed to be a feature request thread...I'd just like to voice my support for the ability to directly access/modify a GUIControl's ZOrder.

This alpha is looking absolutely wonderful Chris. The only other thing (as if I haven't said enough ) I'd like to really see changed would be names for our scripts. For example, the first script in my game is "Module0.ash". I recognize the ASH extension as being a script header, but I don't know for which module! So I have to open it to see which module it is...Oh, it's the Properties module!

So maybe we could have our scripts listed like "Properties Header, Properties Script, Global Header, Global Script, etc." instead of "Module0.ash, Module0.asc, GlobalScript.ash, GlobalScript.asc"?

Thanks for your work on this Chris. It really is looking great.

[EDIT:]

P.S. Ctrl+W used to save-and-exit scripts. Now it just inserts a very interesting looking ETB character. :o

[Kweepa]

For example, the first script in my game is "Module0.ash".

This is a good point - if the module order is changed, it will mix up the modules in source control.

[Pumaman]

Ok, because I need to make sure the font sizes are correct, I've uploaded an alpha 3a version:
* Module scripts are now saved correctly on import
* Changed TTF sizing to hopefully be consistent with AGS 2.72
* Text box "Show Border" property was being imported the wrong way round
* Middle-click now closes a tab
* Improved behaviour of room list when switching between rooms
* Double-clicking GUIs and GUI controls now jumps to their script handler, if they have one
* Fixed GUI control handlers not being linked up on import
* Added some missing AGS_MAX_* constants

If you could let me know whether your fonts are looking ok now, that'd be cool.

I'd forgotten to check this. Looks great to me, but I'd like to point out that, similar to the GUI buttons, there are no associations - I mean, the interactions that I HAD defined still appear on the field, but when I click the elipsis button it creates a brand new section on the script.

Hmm, could you elaborate? There was definitely a problem with GUI controls which is fixed in 3a, but I haven't had any issues with inv/char interactions being hooked up on import?

Script compiling caused hardly any trouble even thouhg there is a whole jumple of plugins in that game

Ah good -- I meant to ask about plugins as well. Glad to see they're still working.

I must say that I really like the way everything works now; it IS a big change in look and feel, but the new design is functional, not just modernised, and the page switching alone is a great thing. It's like watching the original Star Trek episodes, and then watching Next Gen

Hehe, as it's progressing I'm finding the same thing, when I go back to use 2.72 it feels rather "retro"

Please make AGS remember its window state, so that it starts maximised when we left it that way.

Good point, this is probably something I'll leave till later, but please do remind me if it's not doing this by beta-time.

Right off the bat, I love all the new art, the opening screen as well as the new editor icons!

Indeed, thanks to Klaus for these

Also, it seems the editor can't work with locked files (submitting files to perforce locks them):

Hmm, AGS should automatically check out files when you try to edit them -- but I've only been able to test it with SourceSafe. What is the concept of "Locked" in perforce? Is it equivalent to "Checked in" or is it something further?

but I see "true" autocompleting twice

Could you elaborate? I only see it once.

I have a question about the way character and inventory interactions are converted into script functions though: Is this going to be the actual function that is called (like the way that GUIControl clicks are run), effectively obsoleting the "character1_a", "inventory5_c" functions? Because that would be absolutely brilliant.

Yes. From 2.8 onwards, the functions will be called "cEgo_Look", "cEgo_Interact", etc. As part of the import process, the editor will wrap any script functions you have, such that they are all called via these new-style function name.

I've noticed that though you can see the ZOrder for GUIControls, you can't directly modify it. You couldn't in AGS 2.72 either...which I didn't actually realize until I looked. And I know this isn't supposed to be a feature request thread...I'd just like to voice my support for the ability to directly access/modify a GUIControl's ZOrder.

This poses problems with the editor then having to jiggle numbers around to maintain a unique z-order. In what situation would you need this rather than just using Send To Front / Back?

like to really see changed would be names for our scripts. For example, the first script in my game is "Module0.ash".

Yep, this is only a temporary solution, I need to add the ability to rename the script files.

[Rui 'Trovatore' Pires]

If you could let me know whether your fonts are looking ok now, that'd be cool.

It's almost perfect, but it's still a pixel off in a couple of places. But maybe it's close enough to work with... just not 100%.

I've noticed that double-clicking on a control with no previously established script does not automatically create a script entry, as it used to (via a confirmation box). Is this on purpose or an oversight? I liked it, it saved me time.

And I think I figured out what happens to the inventory items (no char interaction in my game, so I can't test *that*). Some *new* ones get created, and they *call*, say, inventory1_a(). Which naturally means it will work. I hadn't noticed that, because it was so unexpected. Nice workaround, I'll say.

[Layabout]

I meant the AGS editor, not Mono.

Allegedly, from what I read in the mono faq, mono can run .net binaries, so if that were true, then it should work. I'll give it a test.

*edit* As it also says here http://www.mono-project.com/Guidelines:Application_Portability

*edit again* And it doesn't run. It has something to do with winform, which mono hasn't fully got working. But that said, I guess when it is more developed, it just may well be able to run the AGS editor. Which would make the linux folk happy. Hopefully by the time 2.8 is official, mono might be more capable of handling the winforms stuff.

[monkey0506]

but I see "true" autocompleting twice

Could you elaborate? I only see it once.

Commenting out my scripts made that go away. So it's an error on my part somewhere.

I have a question about the way character and inventory interactions are converted into script functions though: Is this going to be the actual function that is called (like the way that GUIControl clicks are run), effectively obsoleting the "character1_a", "inventory5_c" functions? Because that would be absolutely brilliant.

Yes. From 2.8 onwards, the functions will be called "cEgo_Look", "cEgo_Interact", etc. As part of the import process, the editor will wrap any script functions you have, such that they are all called via these new-style function name.

Wonderful!

I've noticed that though you can see the ZOrder for GUIControls, you can't directly modify it. You couldn't in AGS 2.72 either...which I didn't actually realize until I looked. And I know this isn't supposed to be a feature request thread...I'd just like to voice my support for the ability to directly access/modify a GUIControl's ZOrder.

This poses problems with the editor then having to jiggle numbers around to maintain a unique z-order. In what situation would you need this rather than just using Send To Front / Back?

I can't really. I just think it would be nice if we could......besides...if it were really an issue we could use the send-to-front/back functions multiple times to put them in the order we wanted...

like to really see changed would be names for our scripts. For example, the first script in my game is "Module0.ash".

Yep, this is only a temporary solution, I need to add the ability to rename the script files.

Great. So...good work thus far. Hope to see the first beta soon!

[Lt. Smash]

Some bugs:
I started AGS, created a new font, double clicked it and this error message came:

---------------------------
Adventure Game Studio
---------------------------
An unexpected error occurred. Please note down the following information and contact CJ.



System.AccessViolationException: Attempted to read or write protected memory. This is often an indication that other memory is corrupt.

   at drawFontAt(Int32 , Int32 , Int32 , Int32 )

   at AGS.Native.NativeMethods.DrawFont(Int32 hDC, Int32 x, Int32 y, Int32 fontNum)

   at AGS.Editor.FontEditor.imagePanel_Paint(Object sender, PaintEventArgs e)

   at System.Windows.Forms.Control.OnPaint(PaintEventArgs e)

   at System.Windows.Forms.Control.PaintWithErrorHandling(PaintEventArgs e, Int16 layer, Boolean disposeEventArgs)

   at System.Windows.Forms.Control.WmPaint(Message& m)

   at System.Windows.Forms.Control.WndProc(Message& m)

   at System.Windows.Forms.ScrollableControl.WndProc(Message& m)

   at System.Windows.Forms.Control.ControlNativeWindow.OnMessage(Message& m)

   at System.Windows.Forms.Control.ControlNativeWindow.WndProc(Message& m)

   at System.Windows.Forms.NativeWindow.Callback(IntPtr hWnd, Int32 msg, IntPtr wparam, IntPtr lparam)
---------------------------
OK   
---------------------------

And:
When I open the sprites window or other window and click on something else in the upper right field, the settings field to the right disappears. -> it gets white.

[Kweepa]

Also, it seems the editor can't work with locked files (submitting files to perforce locks them):

Hmm, AGS should automatically check out files when you try to edit them -- but I've only been able to test it with SourceSafe. What is the concept of "Locked" in perforce? Is it equivalent to "Checked in" or is it something further?

That wasn't very clear. I apologise. Yes, I meant "checked in" ("submitted" in perforce parlance) read-only files. I submitted them through the perforce client because I couldn't submit in the editor (perforce has atomic operations and not all the files existed, so the editor check in failed).

[Pumaman]

I've noticed that double-clicking on a control with no previously established script does not automatically create a script entry, as it used to (via a confirmation box). Is this on purpose or an oversight? I liked it, it saved me time.

Good point, I need to add this back in.

I started AGS, created a new font, double clicked it and this error message came:

This has already been addressed earlier in the thread -- basically, don't try to use the blank game you get when the editor starts up. Find one of your games, make a backup copy of it, and then import that into the editor.

When I open the sprites window or other window and click on something else in the upper right field, the settings field to the right disappears. -> it gets white.

This is by design, at a later date it might give you properties of whatever you clicked on in the tree list, perhaps. Clicking back in the main window should restore the properties.

That wasn't very clear. I apologise. Yes, I meant "checked in" ("submitted" in perforce parlance) read-only files. I submitted them through the perforce client because I couldn't submit in the editor (perforce has atomic operations and not all the files existed, so the editor check in failed).

So in what situation do you get that error message? If the files are checked in, then when you try to edit a script AGS should prompt you to check the file out.

Anyway, alpha 4 is now up.
This now includes the ability to actually build the EXE file; hence, you can see whether stuff that you do in the editor actually works or not. I appreciate that there's still no way to save room files so for now you can't test changes to rooms yet.

Please give this a go; let me know if the EXE that it builds actually works for you, and if any bits of your game stop working as a result. It's been quite a mammoth task getting all the compilation code in there, so I'm sure I've missed something somewhere.

In addition, alpha 4 adds a couple of minor bits -- you can now rename script modules, and there's a Find option in the script editor.

[Rui 'Trovatore' Pires]

Everything seems to work fine... except that when I quit the game, I got this:

Code: ags

---------------------------
Adventure Game Studio
---------------------------
An unexpected error occurred. Please note down the following information and contact CJ.



System.AccessViolationException: Attempted to read or write protected memory. This is often an indication that other memory is corrupt.

   at System.Drawing.SafeNativeMethods.Gdip.GdipDrawPath(HandleRef graphics, HandleRef pen, HandleRef path)

   at System.Drawing.Graphics.DrawPath(Pen pen, GraphicsPath path)

   at AGS.Editor.TabbedDocumentContainer.DrawPane(Graphics graphics, ContentDocument pane, Boolean selected, Int32 x, Int32 y)

   at AGS.Editor.TabbedDocumentContainer.tabsPanel_Paint(Object sender, PaintEventArgs e)

   at System.Windows.Forms.Control.OnPaint(PaintEventArgs e)

   at System.Windows.Forms.Control.PaintWithErrorHandling(PaintEventArgs e, Int16 layer, Boolean disposeEventArgs)

   at System.Windows.Forms.Control.WmPaint(Message& m)

   at System.Windows.Forms.Control.WndProc(Message& m)

   at System.Windows.Forms.ScrollableControl.WndProc(Message& m)

   at System.Windows.Forms.Control.ControlNativeWindow.OnMessage(Message& m)

   at System.Windows.Forms.Control.ControlNativeWindow.WndProc(Message& m)

   at System.Windows.Forms.NativeWindow.Callback(IntPtr hWnd, Int32 msg, IntPtr wparam, IntPtr lparam)
---------------------------
OK   
---------------------------

And you know what? I couldn't reproduce it.

And, uh, somehow this happened...



Closing all tabs and re-opening them didn't restore it back, too. Couldn't reproduce it. Also, just a curio - I can click on the image that appears when I'm "saving the game", or "importing the game", or whatever, it works like a button.

[GarageGothic]

My game compiled fine and seemed to run without problems. I haven't played around much with the editor itself since there seems to be so many features still missing.
I really have trouble adapting to the .NET 2.0 style (I also recently got Microsoft Expression Web and the interface is a major obstacle), so I don't expect to upgrade until there are major changes made to the engine itself. I wonder how easy it will be for Microsoft to get casual users to accept this, probably the biggest change since Win95 came out.

[nahuel]

The new editor does look quite nice (not a very helpful comment I know).

I was wondering if there is a specification of the data files AGS uses (ie .dta). I was considering the posibility of working in an editor for mac, however the problem is that trying to reverse engineer the file format would take ages. If that technical information would be available, developing editors for other platforms would be much easier of course.

[Pumaman]

Everything seems to work fine... except that when I quit the game, I got this:

Hmm, so this error happened when you returned to the editor after running the game? Strange, I haven't been able to reproduce it.
The red-cross-over-white-background will happen as a result of the first error -- basically, that GUI control crashes and then no longer draws itself.

I was wondering if there is a specification of the data files AGS uses (ie .dta).

No, this has been discussed before and there is deliberately no specification because that would make it too easy for people to write game de-compilers to steal other people's artwork and other resources.

[nahuel]

No, this has been discussed before and there is deliberately no specification because that would make it too easy for people to write game de-compilers to steal other people's artwork and other resources.

Oh ok. I see your point. Although you could still steal other people's artwork by taking screenshots; a bit tricky but well it is feasable I imagine. So, is there any way do you think to port the editor? how did people port the engine without any specification?

regards, Nahuel

[subspark]

Protecting peoples artwork through withholding potentially important information is futile. It is ultimately and soley up to the developers who take themselves seriously to copyright and legaly protect their assets.

This can be done by a simple statement on the bottom of their website. For example "All artwork, music and sound is copyright 2007 BlaBlah games."

Thanks to the digital rights act, game developers amongst many other internet users have had their work protected since the late 90s.

Unless your game includes some secret recipe of code that you dont wish to share, then decompilers are a developers best friend. I don't need to remind anybody that example code is the fastest route to learning how to write it yourself.

Can we leave the responsibility to the developers, please? Or at least induce an optional lock on game content before compile.

Make sense?

Cheers,
Paul W.

[SSH]

But it is enough to stop the casual thief, and no-one has written an AGS decompiler, so

There are hundreds of examples of example AGS code: check out the Wiki page on open source games, plus loads of code snippets here. AGS does not have a problem with support or learning curve.

Copyright has protected authors for hundreds of years but the problem with all of these "protections" is that you need to pay a lawyer to enforce them. CJ and most other developers here can't afford it and wouldn't want the bother even if they did, so security through obscurity does work here.


Also, I have tried the latest alpha and it managed to compile the walkcycle generator which has oodles of modules and exercises lots of AGS, so it seems OK. One thing, though, the import process seemed to delete the "  " (two spaces) text I had set on some of my GUI buttons. Those spaces were there deliberately and AGS seemed to change the text to blank: I had to change them back.


On an entirely unrelated note, now I am an ISEB certified tester, I can say that this is NOT an alpha release but a beta, because alphas are releases that are tested at the "vendor's" site and CJ certainly didn't invite ME round to his pad

[Pumaman]

So, is there any way do you think to port the editor? how did people port the engine without any specification?

The people who ported the engine are working under a non-disclosure agreement. As for porting the editor, it hasn't been done for two reasons:
(a) It uses a lot more Windows-specific code than the engine, so would require a significant amount of time to port
(b) Starting from scratch making a port of the editor would be such a massive undertaking that nobody is likely to want to attempt it

Thanks to the digital rights act, game developers amongst many other internet users have had their work protected since the late 90s.

Unless your game includes some secret recipe of code that you dont wish to share, then decompilers are a developers best friend. I don't need to remind anybody that example code is the fastest route to learning how to write it yourself.

Can we please not have this discussion again -- we've been through it all before. Yes, people's work is protected by copyright law. And yes, a determined hacker could figure out the file formats and write a decompiler if they really wanted to.

But so far, that hasn't happened; and after surveying people here using AGS, the consensus was that leaving file formats undocumented was the best approach.

With the new 2.8 editor however, its Game.agf is a standard XML file, the format of which should be self-explanitory. Hence, in theory it would be possible to create another application to edit or create this file, and then just use the 2.8 editor to compile it into an EXE.

One thing, though, the import process seemed to delete the "Ã,  " (two spaces) text I had set on some of my GUI buttons. Those spaces were there deliberately and AGS seemed to change the text to blank: I had to change them back.

Hmm, interesting point ... this seems to be due to the use of XML to save the game data, whitespace is stripped. I'll have to look into it.

On an entirely unrelated note, now I am an ISEB certified tester, I can say that this is NOT an alpha release but a beta

Congratulations 

[nahuel]

With the new 2.8 editor however, its Game.agf is a standard XML file, the format of which should be self-explanitory. Hence, in theory it would be possible to create another application to edit or create this file, and then just use the 2.8 editor to compile it into an EXE.

That's an excellent idea! Yes, creating a mac editor from scratch would take ages of course. But, slowly it could be built up, especially if the file format is an xml file. I completely agree with you that the win AGS could be used to compile the source then. It is (at least for me ) a great news.
I wish now only that the mac engine would be more developed... but well, patience is a virtue

[covox]

*edit again* And it doesn't run. It has something to do with winform, which mono hasn't fully got working. But that said, I guess when it is more developed, it just may well be able to run the AGS editor. Which would make the linux folk happy. Hopefully by the time 2.8 is official, mono might be more capable of handling the winforms stuff.

Yep, as of right now Mono's implementation of System.Windows.Forms has a few missing bits and bobs (for me it tripped up on Application::SetUnhandledExceptionMode), but thankfully the Mono team are hard at work vigorously filling in the gaps.

Also remember that if Mono ever runs it, the floodgates will be opened for both Linux and Mac punters 

[monkey0506]

[off-topic]What truly makes this interesting SSH is that this isn't an Alpha version at all. It's a preview for the Alpha version. [/off-topic]

[Pumaman]

Ok, alpha 5 is now up. This now fully implements room interactions and saving rooms, and also allows you to create, delete and re-order script modules.

Please let me know if you have any issues. In theory now the only things missing are the various import and export options, and the Game Menu options like translations and templates.

I'd also welcome some feedback in two particular areas:
1) Is the Text Dump feature still needed now that the scripts are stored in disk files? The original purpose of it was to allow you to easily search all the scripts, but you can now just do that with "Find in Files" in any decent text editor
2) Room Messages and Global Messages. Currently the 2.8 editor imports these but there is no way to access them. Are they useful? Is it worth re-implementing them, or does everyone just use Display() command instead these days?

[monkey0506]

Regarding #1 I haven't used it personally, but seeing as it's all stored in disk files now I would imagine it's okay to take it out. Though as I haven't had the need to use it I might not be the best source on this.

As for #2 I've always used Display/Character.Say, I've never used the Room/Global messages. I can see how it could be useful to have this option available in the editor (specifically with regard to new users), but it's something that's relatively simple to emulate via the script.

[AGA]

I used to use text dumps, but since they've been superseded, you'd may as well take them out.

I've never used room or global messages.

[smiley]

When I try to type one of our special letters (äöüàŸ) and autocompletion should be triggered, I get this error:

Code: ags

---------------------------
Adventure Game Studio
---------------------------
An unexpected error occurred. Please note down the following information and contact CJ.

System.ArgumentOutOfRangeException: startIndex darf nicht länger als die Länge der Zeichenfolge sein.
[startIndex may not be longer than the length of the string]

Parametername: startIndex

   bei System.String.InternalSubStringWithChecks(Int32 startIndex, Int32 length, Boolean fAlwaysCopy)
   bei AGS.Editor.ScintillaWrapper.GetPreviousPathedExpression(Int32 startAtPos)
   bei AGS.Editor.ScintillaWrapper.ShowAutoCompleteIfAppropriate(Int32 minimumLength)
   bei AGS.Editor.ScintillaWrapper.OnUpdateUI(Object sender, EventArgs e)
   bei Scintilla.ScintillaControl.DispatchScintillaEvent(SCNotification notification)
   bei Scintilla.ScintillaControl.WndProc(Message& m)
   bei System.Windows.Forms.Control.ControlNativeWindow.OnMessage(Message& m)
   bei System.Windows.Forms.Control.ControlNativeWindow.WndProc(Message& m)
   bei System.Windows.Forms.NativeWindow.Callback(IntPtr hWnd, Int32 msg, IntPtr wparam, IntPtr lparam)
---------------------------
OK   
---------------------------

Additionally these letters are disappeared, when I reload the script.

[Rui 'Trovatore' Pires]

In my current project, translation is impossible via AGS' automatic system, so I'm relying on a global Text Dump for editing and then a global Text Import. Since there's over a hundred rooms, keeping it in a single file would be greeeeat. So I'd like text dump to still be around.

I don't use global messages, but at times room messages can be handy, especially for those templates (such as my IF template which never saw the light of day but which I still use for myself) that... well, that use them. It's great to be able to have in each room a property which links to a message number to display in *whatever situation* - in my IF template, it was great for easily doing room descriptions. Even allowed for some really complex formations.

So I don't know about global messages, but I'd welcome keeping room messages.

EDIT - It all looks and feels wondrous. I find it amazing that we can now even edit scripts of a room that isn't loaded! My pre-2.8 mind boggles!

Hmmm, am I the only one who thinks the Hotspot-drawing-area has somehow gotten a bit smaller and it's trickier to draw the hotspots you really want to draw?

[GarageGothic]

Perhaps the text dumping function could be changed to be more similar to "make translation source" except with the option to re-import text?

My own game doesn't use a single global/room message or dialog option/script, so the only current option for proofreading is to dump the entire game code - which is a mess to look at. It doesn't seem to make any sense when the translation source generator is perfectly capable of exporting strings only. Right now, for somebody who wants to have an easy-to-read document for their proofreaders, the only option is to create a translation source and the implement the changes manually.

[SupSuper]

DEAR SIR, I WANT TO HAVE YOUR BABIES!

Let's ignore how impossible that is, but I must say that I just LOVE the new editor. Being a coder myself, it just makes the geek inside me squeal with joy with the much more familiar and user-friendly design. I tip off my unexistant hat to you, for you have done an excellent job!

Now, it's time for the feature request/bug report/pickyness. Don't take any of this extremely seriously or let it annoy you, it's just easier to dump all my thoughts at once then filter them from anything you don't care about, so just ignore those. Don't take this as me wanting to bash on your parade or that I just wanna pick your program apart. Completely wrong! I just like to mention everything nobody else has because all the little things count towards a program and might turn into a big thing if left unnoticed. I'm just trying to help.

The New UI:
- The UI as a whole should be more customizable. This is, users should be able to move the panel and toolbar around to wherever they please. This should take care of people annoyed by the fact that things aren't in the same place as in AGS 2.7, and shouldn't be much effort if you're using the .NET UI elements. As an example, see Visual Studio.

- Tabs are a good change, but there's always those times when you want more than one open at once, like regular windows. Users should be able to place tabs in windows so they can easily move and place them around as necessary. Again, as an example of this, there's Visual Studio's Windows menu. (while I'm at it, a Windows menu is a much nicer place for the tabs list than that arrow button. The menu is pretty bare anyways)

- Instead of only having recent games in 2.72 welcome panel, it'd be more standard to add them to the File menu as well.

- The new dialog panel with both script and options in one window is lovely. A Delete button for the options wouldn't go amiss though.

- When you change the width of the right-side panel, you can't see the "width line" if you have no tabs open, because of the background color of the window. I suppose this might be Windows-style-based, just being picky.

- Room descriptions don't show up on the respective tab title, unlike all the other windows.

- As other people have pointed out, GUI controls have all the corners visible when selected, yet only the bottom-right corner resizes items. This is a bit pointless since you can already drag around controls by clicking anywhere else on them.

- Any chance you could replace the Script Editor's Find panel with a .NET Find & Replace? Yes, yes, I'm too lazy to use an external editor.

- The New GUI Slider icon looks more like a progress bar to me.

- Any chance that you could edit item properties through the Properties Editor just by selecting them in the tree? (in other words, selecting an item in the tree would bring up its properties in the Properties Editor, for when you just wanna do some quick editing and not have to open another window. Activating a tab again would fill the Properties Editor back with that tab's properties)

- The new "output window" would be a lot more used if the compiler didn't bring up one error at a time, and instead listed all the errors at once.

- How about being able to rename any item from the tree view? (currently you only can with Views)

- Both tabs of the Colours window could probably be merged into one, what with their small size and all.

Stuff missing:
- There's no options for opening/saving/saving as individual GUIs, scripts, rooms. (when I say "opening" and "saving as", I mean from/to external files. This was sometimes known as import/export in AGS 2.72. And since the scripts are now stored in their own files, it only seems sensible to quickly nab them from example games and such. Heck, modules would become just plain old script files)

- No option to preview sprites (in their actual-size glory) by double-clicking on them. If you don't like the extra window, you could probably fit a "preview panel" somewhere in the Sprite Manager like there is for Characters.

Bugs:
- Users of the interaction editor will have a lot of fixing to do since any interactions that used old-style-scripting (eg. RunDialog()) will now bring up compiler errors. Though I suppose they could just disable "Enforce object-based-scripting".

- Trying to make the AGS Editor directly open any file (eg. in Windows, dragging a file onto the AGS Editor EXE) will bring up this error:

---------------------------
Adventure Game Studio
---------------------------
An unexpected error occurred. Please note down the following information and contact CJ.



AGS.Types.InvalidDataException: Native initialization failed.

   em AGS.Native.NativeMethods.Initialize()

   em AGS.Editor.AGSEditor.DoEditorInitialization()

   em AGS.Editor.AGSEditor.startupTimer_Tick(Object sender, EventArgs e)

   em System.Windows.Forms.Timer.OnTick(EventArgs e)

   em System.Windows.Forms.Timer.TimerNativeWindow.WndProc(Message& m)

   em System.Windows.Forms.NativeWindow.Callback(IntPtr hWnd, Int32 msg, IntPtr wparam, IntPtr lparam)
---------------------------
OK   
---------------------------

After which the loading halts and you have to kill AGS Editor manually to get it to close.
I bet you probably didn't see this coming :p but I wanted to see if the AGS Editor could "directly open" game files (without going through File > Open). It'd be a nice feature. And in AGS 2.72, nothing happens if I did this.

- After importing my old game, fixing errors and getting it to build an EXE successfully, I try to run it. And get this error:

---------------------------
Adventure Game Studio
---------------------------
An error has occurred. Please contact the game author for support, as this
is likely to be a scripting error and not a bug in AGS.
(ACI version 2.80.923)


Error: invalid interaction variable specified

---------------------------
OK   
---------------------------

I have no idea if this is a problem with AGS or my game, since I have no idea what it means or how to fix it. It comes up right after the screen switches resolution.

Interaction Editor:
- Regarding the old outdated Interaction Editor, I understand not many people use it and it's pretty unfriendly right now. However, there's always people who just can't get into scripting. So I'd suggest something like Flash's "Script Assist" for scripting. It provides both a simpler alternative to scripting and allows people to learn how scripting works as they use it. Thinking about it, it's much like the current Interaction Editor should be. I'll explain:
(click it for biggening)
This is the Flash's "Script Assist" feature. It's built into the regular script editor, so a simple press of a button enables/disables it.
The left panel has a complete reference of all functions, keywords, objects, operators and anything else used in scripting, all split into categories. A nicer version of the AGS Editor's Interaction Editor's huge-combo-box-of-functions. Double-clicking on any element here adds it onto the selected line.
The bottom-right panel is the script editor. It's like always except it selects one line at a time, instead of individual text. No direct editing can be done through it.
The top-right panel brings up info on the selection. This being:
- Top: Description of whatever function/condition/evaluation/whatever is currently being used in that line.
- Middle: A toolbar that allows people to quickly add/remove/move around the selected line. The "Target" button allows people to directly point at something in Flash's library (
- Bottom: All the function/condition/evaluation/whatever parameters, split into descriptive fields that allow for an easy editing of the script below, which is automatically updated and formatted whenever any data is entered. Things like a list of objects (eg. characters in AGS) use comboboxes, raw values use an edit field, etc. Again, not very different from the current Interaction Editor's "function editing" window.
This little panel also helps people get into scripting since they automatically visualize what they're doing, and therefore associate and start learning how to script on their own. After all, the Script Assist is great for simple things but easily gets outdone with complicated things. It also works with user-written code, though it's a lot less helpful, specially since it operates on a line-by-line basis, so that's up to CJ to work out if he does write his own Script Assist to replace the Interaction Editor.

Just my two cents.

As for the last questions: I've never used any global/room messages, I prefer to just write messages directly into the script. Plus there's already global strings.
I've also never used text dump, though as many people pointed out, an all-in-one-file-exporter/importer could be handy.

[Traveler]

I'm not sure if this is already known or not, but I got this exception when trying to add a GUI button:

---------------------------
Adventure Game Studio
---------------------------
An unexpected error occurred. Please note down the following information and contact CJ.

System.AccessViolationException: Attempted to read or write protected memory. This is often an indication that other memory is corrupt.
   at drawGUIAt(Int32 , Int32 , Int32 , Int32 , Int32 , Int32 , Int32 , Int32 )
   at drawGUI(Int32 hdc, Int32 x, Int32 y, GUI guiObj, Int32 scaleFactor, Int32 selectedControl)
   at AGS.Native.NativeMethods.DrawGUI(Int32 hDC, Int32 x, Int32 y, GUI gui, Int32 scaleFactor, Int32 selectedControl)
   at AGS.Editor.GUIEditor.bgPanel_Paint(Object sender, PaintEventArgs e)
   at System.Windows.Forms.Control.OnPaint(PaintEventArgs e)
   at System.Windows.Forms.Control.PaintWithErrorHandling(PaintEventArgs e, Int16 layer, Boolean disposeEventArgs)
   at System.Windows.Forms.Control.WmPaint(Message& m)
   at System.Windows.Forms.Control.WndProc(Message& m)
   at System.Windows.Forms.ScrollableControl.WndProc(Message& m)
   at System.Windows.Forms.Control.ControlNativeWindow.OnMessage(Message& m)
   at System.Windows.Forms.Control.ControlNativeWindow.WndProc(Message& m)
   at System.Windows.Forms.NativeWindow.Callback(IntPtr hWnd, Int32 msg, IntPtr wparam, IntPtr lparam)
---------------------------
OK   
---------------------------

This is what I did:

• Run the editor
• Right-click the GUIs node in the tree pane to the right and selected New GUI
• Clicked the "Add GUI button" button on the toolbar
• Dragged the button rectangle onto the GUI. The exception came when I released the mouse button. At this point the editor is still running but the control editor pane shows only a white background and a red X.

[SupSuper]

(Edit by strazer: No need to quote the whole post directly above yours!)

You should not use the editor blank, you should use it on an existing game.
The error comes from the fact that the game has no fonts to draw the button with.

CJ should probably put this in the first post since people keep running into this error.

[Rui 'Trovatore' Pires]

BTW, I just wanted to clarify why I need to use a Text DUmp for trabslation (in a new reply because if I edit the old one it'll probably not be seen now) - I had to make a custom function that gets the inputted string, puts it on a GUI label, and if necessary splits it into 2+ lines. This splitting involves counting characters on the string, and a couple of other things. When I tried to do an automatic translation, it was a no-go. So I need to text-dump it ALL, add a gazillion "if trabslations is X then Write("X"); else Write("Y")" functions and re-import. Better to text dump it all than to do it manually.

[GarageGothic]

I had to make a custom function that gets the inputted string, puts it on a GUI label, and if necessary splits it into 2+ lines.

I have the exact same problem in my game - and in the end gave up on the idea of ever having it translated. I wonder how much it would take to rework the engine so that translated Strings are implemented the moment they are parsed rather than when they are displayed (at least that is how I understood the internal workings, but maybe I'm wrong?). This would allow for linebreaking code working also on translations, since the lettercount would refer to the translation rather than the original string.

[Ghost]

Loading a scrolling room (in this specific case a room of 570 x 240 for a 320x240 game, but it happens in all scrolling rooms) gives me a vertical scroll bar but not a horizontal one- I can only access the left side of this room!

[Pumaman]

Thanks for the positive comments guys, I'm glad that you think the new editor is an improvement on the old one

When I try to type one of our special letters (äöüàŸ) and autocompletion should be triggered, I get this error:
System.ArgumentOutOfRangeException: startIndex darf nicht länger als die Länge der Zeichenfolge sein

Well spotted thanks, I'll look into it.

I don't use global messages, but at times room messages can be handy, especially for those templates (such as my IF template which never saw the light of day but which I still use for myself) that... well, that use them. It's great to be able to have in each room a property which links to a message number to display in *whatever situation* - in my IF template, it was great for easily doing room descriptions. Even allowed for some really complex formations.

Fair point, I'll see about adding these back in.

Perhaps the text dumping function could be changed to be more similar to "make translation source" except with the option to re-import text?

Yes, I was wondering whether the text dump and translation features could somehow be combined with some sort of option to read changes back in.
If the output was dumped as an XML file rather than a plain text file, would that cause any problems for anyone?

The UI as a whole should be more customizable. This is, users should be able to move the panel and toolbar around to wherever they please. This should take care of people annoyed by the fact that things aren't in the same place as in AGS 2.7, and shouldn't be much effort if you're using the .NET UI elements. As an example, see Visual Studio

Interesting point -- I have looked into this, but as far as I can see the whole dockable windows/toolbars thing is not part of the .NET Framework; it's something that they've specifically coded into Visual Studio. So obviously I could do the same, but I'm not sure whether it's worth the effort...

Tabs are a good change, but there's always those times when you want more than one open at once, like regular windows. Users should be able to place tabs in windows so they can easily move and place them around as necessary. Again, as an example of this, there's Visual Studio's Windows menu

A Windows menu is certainly a reasonable idea; I'll have to look into how hard it would be to allow multiple tabs to be visible at once.

- The new dialog panel with both script and options in one window is lovely. A Delete button for the options wouldn't go amiss though.

My reluctance here is that dialog options are still referenced by number, so allowing one to be deleted from the middle could allow people to unintentionally mess up their dialog scripts. Perhaps allowing only the last one to be deleted is a fair plan though.

- Any chance you could replace the Script Editor's Find panel with a .NET Find & Replace? Yes, yes, I'm too lazy to use an external editor.

Again, as far as I'm aware there is no ".NET Find and Replace" dialog, but I can certainly look into adding Replace features to the existing dialog.

Users of the interaction editor will have a lot of fixing to do since any interactions that used old-style-scripting (eg. RunDialog()) will now bring up compiler errors. Though I suppose they could just disable "Enforce object-based-scripting".

That's a good point, I need to make sure that the generated code uses new-style scripting.

After importing my old game, fixing errors and getting it to build an EXE successfully, I try to run it. And get this error:

Error: invalid interaction variable specified

Ah, the new editor does not maintain any Global Interaction Variables that you've created, therefore if you try to load in a room that uses one, it will give this error. If you load and re-save that first room in the editor, it should remove the reference.

Regarding the old outdated Interaction Editor, I understand not many people use it and it's pretty unfriendly right now. However, there's always people who just can't get into scripting. So I'd suggest something like Flash's "Script Assist" for scripting.

Something like that is a good idea; it's probably not something I'll do right away, and potentially could be the sort of functionality for a plugin to provide at a later date.

Thanks for all your other comments, I'll bear them in mind.

BTW, I just wanted to clarify why I need to use a Text DUmp for trabslation (in a new reply because if I edit the old one it'll probably not be seen now) - I had to make a custom function that gets the inputted string, puts it on a GUI label, and if necessary splits it into 2+ lines. This splitting involves counting characters on the string, and a couple of other things. When I tried to do an automatic translation, it was a no-go. So I need to text-dump it ALL, add a gazillion "if trabslations is X then Write("X"); else Write("Y")" functions and re-import. Better to text dump it all than to do it manually.

Hmm, I still don't fully understand. The translation source file should automatically include all script strings, and then can't your custom function just use GetTranslation to get the translated version?

Loading a scrolling room (in this specific case a room of 570 x 240 for a 320x240 game, but it happens in all scrolling rooms) gives me a vertical scroll bar but not a horizontal one- I can only access the left side of this room!

I just tried with a 470x200 room and it was fine, but I'll try to make one that size and see what happens...

[Rui 'Trovatore' Pires]

If the output was dumped as an XML file rather than a plain text file, would that cause any problems for anyone?

If you provide a tutorial for working with XML files, sure. I know nothing about XML.

Hmm, I still don't fully understand. The translation source file should automatically include all script strings, and then can't your custom function just use GetTranslation to get the translated version?

Hmmm, never thought of using GetTranslation. I'll look into it sometime, thanks for the tip. Since it's so unpredictable *when* the lines get broken, I thought it just couldn't be done.

[GarageGothic]

Hmm, I still don't fully understand. The translation source file should automatically include all script strings, and then can't your custom function just use GetTranslation to get the translated version?

Hmm, this is something I considered briefly at one point, but didn't pursue since I didn't know whether GetTranslation was compatible with new Strings. Would it be possible to substitute a String with it's translation at the beginning of a custom function without messing anything up? Like this:

Code: ags

function lbSay(Character *charname, String dialogline, int voicefile) {
   dialogline = GetTranslation (dialogline);
   etc. etc.
   }

Is GetTranslation a slow function so it would be safer to check for IsTranslationAvailable() first? In some situations I need to run through a couple of hundred Strings every loop.

Edit: Woohoo! Yes, it worked! Thanks CJ, this solved all my translation problems!

[Rui 'Trovatore' Pires]

Well, if it worked for him I'm sure it'll do the trick for me. I still haven't understood how extraordinary AGS truly is, it seems. Well, that means I have no real need for Text Dump anymore.

[SupSuper]

Interesting point -- I have looked into this, but as far as I can see the whole dockable windows/toolbars thing is not part of the .NET Framework; it's something that they've specifically coded into Visual Studio. So obviously I could do the same, but I'm not sure whether it's worth the effort...

Hmm you're right. .NET does have a component to make draggable toolbars (ToolStripContainer), but not windows, sorry, my mistake.

Though there seem to have been a lot of people that wanted a Visual-Studio-like UI too: http://www.windowsforms.net/ControlGallery/default.aspx?Category=7abindex=10 (DockStudio seems to be the only one that's free)

Of course I'm not considering this a priority, just showing that you don't have to code it yourself and steal away precious AGS-working time.

A Windows menu is certainly a reasonable idea; I'll have to look into how hard it would be to allow multiple tabs to be visible at once.

The tags don't have to go anywhere, just displaying them in a window would be nice. Again, some of the libraries above seem to have that feature too.

My reluctance here is that dialog options are still referenced by number, so allowing one to be deleted from the middle could allow people to unintentionally mess up their dialog scripts. Perhaps allowing only the last one to be deleted is a fair plan though.

Good point. It's just easy to mess up dialog options when reordering, correcting, moving them to separate dialogs, and I find it a bit sloppy to end up with blank dialog options.

Being able to delete the last option would be fine, thanks.

Again, as far as I'm aware there is no ".NET Find and Replace" dialog, but I can certainly look into adding Replace features to the existing dialog.

Whoops, more assuming on my part, what with all the .NET Dialogs, I checked myself and you're right.

Replace would be great, thanks. Other things like "Match word" are also handy for script editing, but definitely not a priority.

Ah, the new editor does not maintain any Global Interaction Variables that you've created, therefore if you try to load in a room that uses one, it will give this error. If you load and re-save that first room in the editor, it should remove the reference.

It doesn't remove them, but rather puts in an ugly "*** TODO: VARIABLE CHECK ***" in their place, but since it comes up as a compiler error and thus forces me to fix it, I suppose it's fair game. And the game works fine now.

Thanks for all your other comments, I'll bear them in mind.

Cheers.

As for more notes:
- In AGS 2.72, a message box would pop up when there were compiler errors. In this new version, this no longer happens, so sometimes it's easy to miss when errors do come up when you're saving, specially when you're not even on the script editor anymore. I'd appreciate a return of the 2.72 message box in some fashion, some kind of "There was an error while saving".
- Saving the game doesn't save any open rooms.
- The Output window only gets updated (or cleared) when Building a game and not while Saving the game. Is this intended?

And bug reports:
- Deleting events in the Properties Editor doesn't delete the corresponding functions in the script.
- One of the side-effects of having multiple windows open is that if you save an old AGS 2.72 room while the script editor is open, you don't see any changes until you close and reopen it.
- If you do any visual changes (objects, hotspots, etc.) to a room, close it, ask for the changes to not be saved, and then re-open it, the changes are still there. They only go away if you load another room.
- If you open and close a room without saving any changes (even if you don't make any), the script is still upgraded.
- I haven't pinpointed the exact cause or how to reproduce this bug, so I apologize in advance, but I'll report it anyways until I figure it out: In some cases, the script upgrade process writes out the "redirect functions" twice. Like, say:

function hotspot1_Look()
{
hotspot1_a();
}

function hotspot1_Look()
{
hotspot1_a();
}

Also, ine of the odd advantages of the new editor is it made me spot any events I left created but deleted the respective function manually, since during the script upgrade, it tries to assign functions that don't exist and thus doesn't compile.

[Ghost]

Loading a scrolling room (in this specific case a room of 570 x 240 for a 320x240 game, but it happens in all scrolling rooms) gives me a vertical scroll bar but not a horizontal one- I can only access the left side of this room!

I just found out that this quirk doesn't appear when I set my screen resolution to 1024 x 768; the bars are only missing in 800 x 600 resolution. I know that few people run such a "low" res, but it appears that the panel (?) you're using for room display somehow "swallows" the slide bar?

Another fun thing: I have a room with no "room description"; opening it in Alpha5 brings me directly to the scripts pane, while all other rooms start with their image displayed. Intention, or did I spot a bug? 

[Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens]

On the subject of dialogs, I still think a folder list for them would be a good idea, that way you could categorize multiple dialogs for one person in a folder much like you do for multiple views for one person.  Small improvements like these make a great difference when actually building a game and go a long way to keeping things ordered.  I like the new start up screen!

[monkey0506]

I'm getting protected struct members autocompleting...and nothing appears to be autocompleting after 'this'. 'this' is also *apparently* autocompleting outside of member functions...where it can't be used....so is my computer just screwing with me again or what?

[SupSuper]

The following features are NOT yet implemented:
* Autocomplete doesn't yet work with local variables or the "this" variable

[monkey0506]

Red and blue appear to be backwards in the color finder. (31R,0G,0B) shows up for me as blue and (0R,0G,31B) shows up as red. Green appears to be fine though.

Oh thanks SupSuper. Looks like I still can't read properly (although protected struct members don't fall into either of those categories (on my own behalf)).

[joelphilippage]

Ive got a suggestion. I think that the walking and talking animation preview for the character should either be a bit taller or scale down the animation to fit it's size. most of my characters get cut off at the top.

[edmundito]

Chris, I was wondering if you lost that icon I sent you for the newest versions of AGS... the one that was meant to work on XP and such...?

The new build looks pretty nice. I'll try it with some games of mine. I still feel that putting the sidebar on the right feels awkward. I guess I'm still too used to the left side from the other ags (and now I'm using eclipse and they put their stuff on the left as well, lol.) Maybe there should be an option for docking the sidebars left or right?

And also, the normal behavior for opening a new document in tabs is that it appears on the right side of the screen. Yours they keep pushing the other windows to the right....

Oh, and also... just a minor minor detail: LucasArts is with a capital A On the speech style it says Lucasarts...

[RickJ]

Regarding running on Linux/Mono ...

From: http://www.mono-project.com/Guidelines:Application_Portability

Important Visual Studio can produce "incremental" executables, these are executables that do not have some of their tables compressed, and they are used by Visual Studio during development.

These assemblies do not work with Mono, as Mono does not support them, you must turn off "incremental" builds.

The incremental option can be set from the Project's Configuration/Advanced properties.

When I tried running alpha 5 with mono on Open Suse 10.2 it crashed complaining about unknown WinForm methods.  No susrpise since this is what others have already reported. 

But I noticed that the error message also had something vague to say about assemblies as well.   So I was wondering if the the above mentioned "incremental builds" are turned off for alpha 5 and if not could they be turned off for the next alpha?  If so I would gladly give it another try and report the results.

Keep up the good work.

[subspark]

Dear AGSers,

I have imported my game into AGS 2.8 Alpha 5 with no problems.
However when I attemtpt to compile the script it spits out the following error:
undefined symbal 'ACTION'

Code: ags

// Main global script file


//SOME TEMPLATE DEFINITIONS:

//-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#define MAX_MODES 			11//	put here how many cursor modes you have (= last
//                          number in mode '#defines' in the Script Header+1).
//                          Putting a lower number will cause strange errors.
//-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#define MAX_SAVEGAMES 			99//    Max number of savegames.
//-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#define EXTENSION_IDENTIFIER 		">"//	Character(s) extensions start with. 
#define VARIABLE_DEF_ACTION_EXTENSION	'v'//	Extension for variable default action things.
#define NO_DEF_ACTION_EXTENSION		'n'//	Extension for no default action things.
#define EXITS_EXTENSION			'e'//	Extension for exit type things.
//-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#define ALWAYS_GO_TO_HOTSPOTS 		1//	Read the template documentation for this.
//-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#define DEFAULT_FONT_HEIGHT 		8//	Used in SaveGame GUI script
//-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#define GUI_MAPS_WIDTH 			100//	Used for setting up the GUI label in map rooms .
#define GUI_MAPS_LABEL_FONT 		1//
//-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#define INV_UP_ARROW_ON_SPRITE 		39//	Used for setting the correct arrows so that the 
#define INV_UP_ARROW_OFF_SPRITE 	45//	player can see if the inventory is scrollable.
#define INV_DOWN_ARROW_ON_SPRITE 	40//
#define INV_DOWN_ARROW_OFF_SPRITE 	46//
//-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#define ACTION_LABEL_COLOR_NORMAL	 3//	Used in highlighting the action bar.
#define ACTION_LABEL_COLOR_HIGHLIGHTED 	11//
//-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#define BLANK_CURSOR_SPRITE_NUMBER 	1//	Used for changing the cursor back to 'wait' 
//                          cursor after 'semi-blocking' functions finish. 
//-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#define FIRST_INV_SLOT_COORDS 	    161,159//	Any point inside the top left inventory slot.
//                          coordinates used for inventory box.
//-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#define CONFIRM_GUIS_CHARACTER_YES	'Y'//	Keys for 'Yes' and 'No' in 'exit game' and 
#define CONFIRM_GUIS_CHARACTER_NO	'N'//	'restart game' GUI requests. (Always uppercase)
//-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#define SPECIAL_INV_MODE		1//	1 = LOOK mode (as defined in script header).
//                          It is the mode that will trigger a left click
//                          in the inventory if mode is WALK or PICKUP.
//-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As you may have guessed I'm using a monkey island template.

I corrected this error by adding #define ACTION into the global script. While this fix doesn't make sense I attempt to fix the next problem.

The compiler spat out the following error:
missing argument in function call (line 249)

Code: ags

function HighlightActionBar(){
  //highlights the action bar with the color defined at the top of the global script
(line 249) SetLabelColor(ACTION,0,ACTION_LABEL_COLOR_HIGHLIGHTED);
  SetTimer(20,5);
}

Any ideas on how to get this not too lengthy script to compile for 2.8 alpha 5?
Any help here would be hot.

Cheers.

[Scorpiorus]

I just looked into Monkey Island 2 template and noticed that ACTION is a name of the very first GUI (#0) in the list.
I thought it's worth mentioning in case it's somehow related.

[khnum]

I just tried tu run my game with the alpha5, and i get this errors:

Code: ags

---------------------------
Adventure Game Studio
---------------------------
An unexpected error occurred. Please note down the following information and contact CJ.



System.ArgumentException: Width must be greater than zero.

   at AGS.Editor.BusyDialog.Show(String message, ProcessingHandler handler, Object parameter)

   at AGS.Editor.Components.FileCommandsComponent.LoadGameFromDisk(String gameToLoad)

   at AGS.Editor.Components.FileCommandsComponent.CommandClick(String controlID)

   at AGS.Editor.GUIController._mainForm_OnMenuClick(String menuItemID)

   at AGS.Editor.MainMenuManager.MenuEventHandler(Object sender, EventArgs e)

   at System.Windows.Forms.ToolStripItem.RaiseEvent(Object key, EventArgs e)

   at System.Windows.Forms.ToolStripMenuItem.OnClick(EventArgs e)

   at System.Windows.Forms.ToolStripItem.HandleClick(EventArgs e)

   at System.Windows.Forms.ToolStripItem.HandleMouseUp(MouseEventArgs e)

   at System.Windows.Forms.ToolStripItem.FireEventInteractive(EventArgs e, ToolStripItemEventType met)

   at System.Windows.Forms.ToolStripItem.FireEvent(EventArgs e, ToolStripItemEventType met)

   at System.Windows.Forms.ToolStrip.OnMouseUp(MouseEventArgs mea)

   at System.Windows.Forms.ToolStripDropDown.OnMouseUp(MouseEventArgs mea)

   at System.Windows.Forms.Control.WmMouseUp(Message& m, MouseButtons button, Int32 clicks)

   at System.Windows.Forms.Control.WndProc(Message& m)

   at System.Windows.Forms.ScrollableControl.WndProc(Message& m)

   at System.Windows.Forms.ToolStrip.WndProc(Message& m)

   at System.Windows.Forms.ToolStripDropDown.WndProc(Message& m)

   at System.Windows.Forms.Control.ControlNativeWindow.OnMessage(Message& m)

   at System.Windows.Forms.Control.ControlNativeWindow.WndProc(Message& m)

   at System.Windows.Forms.NativeWindow.Callback(IntPtr hWnd, Int32 msg, IntPtr wparam, IntPtr lparam)
---------------------------
OK   
---------------------------

any other game i tried to load worked, and there aren't modules or plugins

P.S.: CJ, are you going to implement something new or it will be only a graphic update?

[Pumaman]

Ok, well it's been a month since the last update so I thought it was about time I uploaded the latest build. This has the following changes:

* Added welcome dialog when editor starts up, including ability to create new games
* Added Make Template option
* Added room messages editor
* Added automated backup of game files before importing game from 2.72
* Autocomplete now works with "this" variable
* Added option to create non-state-saving room
* Generated code for interactions should now all compile correctly with "enforce object-based scripting" enabled
* Better handling of room scripts to make sure they get updated properly when loading in an old room
* Added ability to delete last dialog option
* Script names should now be verified as unique
* Fixed extended ASCII characters 128-255 crashing the script editor

Your comments are welcome, as usual.

The following things are still missing/broken; I am aware of them and will be doing them soon, so please don't report them as problems:

* Autocomplete doesn't yet work with local variables
* autocomplete enums
* autocomplete is showing protected struct members to public
* remember width/height of editor when exit
* Text Dump / Translation Source into XML file
* red and blue are backwards at 16-bit colour
* auto-number speech lines feature
* custom icon on generated EXE
* generate setup.exe as well as game exe
* Better way of importing interaction variables (currently crash game when attempt to use GetGraphicslVariable)
* Various import and export options
* help file, general help system
* automatically adjust GUI width/height to at least 1 when importing old game

Is GetTranslation a slow function so it would be safer to check for IsTranslationAvailable() first? In some situations I need to run through a couple of hundred Strings every loop.

GetTranslation internally calls IsTranslationAvailable anyway, so if you called it as well you'd actually be making it slower

It doesn't remove them, but rather puts in an ugly "*** TODO: VARIABLE CHECK ***" in their place, but since it comes up as a compiler error and thus forces me to fix it, I suppose it's fair game.

This is something I want to improve by the final version of 2.8; ideally I want the upgaded game to work straight off, without needing manual script fixing.

- In AGS 2.72, a message box would pop up when there were compiler errors. In this new version, this no longer happens, so sometimes it's easy to miss when errors do come up when you're saving, specially when you're not even on the script editor anymore. I'd appreciate a return of the 2.72 message box in some fashion, some kind of "There was an error while saving".

The latest alpha now does this.

- Saving the game doesn't save any open rooms.

This should now happen.

- The Output window only gets updated (or cleared) when Building a game and not while Saving the game. Is this intended?

Yes this is intentional; if you save the game it doesn't try to compile or anything, so any previous error messages are still valid.

Deleting events in the Properties Editor doesn't delete the corresponding functions in the script.

This is deliberate, I don't want to risk people losing their script code when they didn't want to.

- One of the side-effects of having multiple windows open is that if you save an old AGS 2.72 room while the script editor is open, you don't see any changes until you close and reopen it.
- If you open and close a room without saving any changes (even if you don't make any), the script is still upgraded.
- I haven't pinpointed the exact cause or how to reproduce this bug, so I apologize in advance, but I'll report it anyways until I figure it out: In some cases, the script upgrade process writes out the "redirect functions" twice.

Thanks for pointing these out, the latest alpha should fix these.

I just found out that this quirk doesn't appear when I set my screen resolution to 1024 x 768; the bars are only missing in 800 x 600 resolution. I know that few people run such a "low" res, but it appears that the panel (?) you're using for room display somehow "swallows" the slide bar?

Well spotted, you're right ... at 800x600, the editor window isn't big enough to see the scroll bars. Does anyone else still use 800x600? I'm not sure if this is worth fixing?

On the subject of dialogs, I still think a folder list for them would be a good idea, that way you could categorize multiple dialogs for one person in a folder much like you do for multiple views for one person.

Sounds reasonable, I'll leave new features like this until I've got all the existing stuff implemented.

Red and blue appear to be backwards in the color finder. (31R,0G,0B) shows up for me as blue and (0R,0G,31B) shows up as red. Green appears to be fine though.

Hmm yes, this seems to only happen to me if the game colour depth is 16-bit. I need to look into it.

Ive got a suggestion. I think that the walking and talking animation preview for the character should either be a bit taller or scale down the animation to fit it's size. most of my characters get cut off at the top.

It's difficult to size the window so that it will cater for everyone; I'll have a think about it.

Chris, I was wondering if you lost that icon I sent you for the newest versions of AGS... the one that was meant to work on XP and such...?

Probably, if it's not the one that I'm using at the moment?

But I noticed that the error message also had something vague to say about assemblies as well.   So I was wondering if the the above mentioned "incremental builds" are turned off for alpha 5 and if not could they be turned off for the next alpha?  If so I would gladly give it another try and report the results.

I haven't noticed an option anywhere for this, but I assume it's turned off by default.

I just looked into Monkey Island 2 template and noticed that ACTION is a name of the very first GUI (#0) in the list.
I thought it's worth mentioning in case it's somehow related.

Hmm yes, in 2.72 the GUI names have #defines created for them, but 2.8 doesn't do tihs any more. Would this be useful for people?

I just tried tu run my game with the alpha5, and i get this errors:
System.ArgumentException: Width must be greater than zero.

Hmm, sounds like you have a GUI or a GUI Control that has a width of 0; this should probably be handled better.

[pcj]

Good to see an update, I was just checking this to see if I missed it yesterday.

[GarageGothic]

Great work, CJ. I came across a problem though. Probably related to the extended ASCII characters previously crashing the editor, they now seem to just get corrupted when importing an old game. In my script, the name "René Descartes" becomes "RenàÆ'© Descartes" when importing from 2.72 Final 2 to 2.8 Alpha 6.

[Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens]

It's difficult to size the window so that it will cater for everyone; I'll have a think about it.

A right-click zoom option that magnifies/shrinks the images by 2x from their default size would fix this.  If the sprite being in the editor is the problem you could always have it display in a separate window like 2.72?

It's looking pretty slick, CJ.  Are you going to add drag and drop support for pulling sprites/views/etc into folders?

One thing I noticed is that if you click outside of a pulldown menu (like backgrounds) it doesn't deselect it, so if you use the mouse wheel it still cycles through whatever is in that menu.

Also, if you'd consider shipping the new ags with the updated roger template/gui I made that would be cool.  I've verified it to work perfectly with 2.8 alpha 6.

A couple of things would be nice:

1.  A display of the fonts current size and the ability to change it in the editor with up/down arrows and manual keying rather than reimporting the font.

2.  An animate tick bar next to cursors as well so you can see them animate.

3.  On the character list the properties read 'Speech View' and 'Normal view' but the editor displays them as Walking view and talking view.  This could confuse some people I guess.  Also the ability to set a loop for each direction in a view would be nice (see 6 for more info).

4.  Don't know if you just haven't gotten to this yet but similar customization screens for idle/blinking/thinking would be good.

5.  A change to dynamic limits on the # of views, chars, etc, though I realize this will require an engine edit as well.

6.  Consider changing the way AGS decides what the walk/talk etc loops are to a set of variables the author can select and edit in the properties pane.  This would certainly obviate much of the current difficulty with creating new views each time you want to change the walk movements.  By default these variables could be the current setup, naturally.

[strazer]

Hmm yes, in 2.72 the GUI names have #defines created for them, but 2.8 doesn't do tihs any more. Would this be useful for people?

Unless there's another way to check for the existence of a GUI, I think module authors need this to present an error message using ifdef if the GUI belonging to the module is missing. That's what I would do, anyway.

[SSH]

I just looked into Monkey Island 2 template and noticed that ACTION is a name of the very first GUI (#0) in the list.
I thought it's worth mentioning in case it's somehow related.

Hmm yes, in 2.72 the GUI names have #defines created for them, but 2.8 doesn't do tihs any more. Would this be useful for people?

Well, if you want games to convert automatically...

Also, I think some of my modules depend on this behaviour

[Tartalo]

This .NET rewrite creates hope of cross platform compatibility, is it an objective?

[monkey0506]

Just to reiterate what strazer and SSH already said, #ifdef is about the only way for a module author to say "does a GUI with this name exist?...because I need it."

Thanks Chris.

[subspark]

Chris, AGS 2.8 Alpha 1 - 6 has been throwing the following error at me:



To clairy, I've never been able to run any incarnation of the alpha on my PC.

My PC specs are as follows:

Dell Precision 670
-------------------
CPU: Intel XEON 2.8Ghz
GPU: Quadro FX 4500 PCI-E
OS: Windows XP Pro
RAM: 2GB

I beleive this is a MAJOR bug. Hope we can clear it up soon.

Cheers,
Paul.

Screen Resolution set to default: 2560x1600

[Radiant]

Hm...

This obviously means I'll have to update META at some point

[GarageGothic]

To clairy, I've never been able to run any incarnation of the alpha on my PC.

Have you made sure that you do have version 2.0 of the .NET Framework installed?

[Pumaman]

Probably related to the extended ASCII characters previously crashing the editor, they now seem to just get corrupted when importing an old game. In my script, the name "René Descartes" becomes "RenàÆ'© Descartes" when importing from 2.72 Final 2 to 2.8 Alpha 6.

Hmm, I'll look into it.

Also, if you'd consider shipping the new ags with the updated roger template/gui I made that would be cool.  I've verified it to work perfectly with 2.8 alpha 6.

This is an interesting point. Should the AGS distribution include some of the more popular templates to make it easier for newbies to get started?

A couple of things would be nice:

Thanks for your comments, however I want to get the 2.72 functionality all in there before I start adding other new stuff. We'll revisit your suggestions at that time.

This .NET rewrite creates hope of cross platform compatibility, is it an objective?

It's not a design goal, no. If it helps, then great. However, the editor still uses a native code component which means it's probably more difficult to run on other platforms than pure managed code.

Chris, AGS 2.8 Alpha 1 - 6 has been throwing the following error at me:

That's an error trying to initialise your source control system. Do you have a source control program (eg. sourcesafe, perforce) installed?

[LimpingFish]

This is an interesting point. Should the AGS distribution include some of the more popular templates to make it easier for newbies to get started?

I think a couple of "open source", as it were, (very) short sample games might prove popular, rather than trying to incorporate templates and various guis into a single demo game.

It might stop people asking the same questions over and over again ("How do I make a platform/first person/shooting gallery/misc").

[SupSuper]

Built-in templates for the most common requests would suffice, such as Lucasarts style, RPG game, etc.

[subspark]

Built-in templates for the most common requests would suffice, such as Lucasarts style, RPG game, etc.

I couldn't agree more. As for Lucasarts GUIs I beleive the most complete one is the Monkey Island 2 GUI. Theres a couple floating around. Its Perikovs one. (hideously misspelt)

If it could be rewritten for 2.8 using modern code then a template could be included with AGS 2.8.
Theres no need to include templates of similar design like Fate of Atlantis. Its just a matter of swapping sprites and a good practise for new developers anyway. I've been there. I loved problem solving that one once.

As for my issue, yes, I use Perforce for licensed Unreal 3 development. It is installed and theres definatly a problem there.
I don't expect to have to uninstall Perforce to get AGS running. Making games is my business and not just my hobby so I'd really love to be able to continue my job and work on my beloved AGS on the same machine if you please. 

Could we correct this error, Chris. I imagine others too may need Perforce installed.

Cheers mate,
Paul.

[Pumaman]

Alpha 7 is now up, with these changes:
* Added support for script extender functions
* Added support for translations
* Added Auto-Number Speech Lines feature
* Editor now remembers its size and position when you close and re-open it
* Autocomplete now handles protected vars/funcs correctly
* Autocomplete now pops up for enums in function calls
* Game EXE icon is now set (without support for win98 -- does anyone still use it??)
* Setup program is now generated in Compiled folder
* Fixed red and blue being mixed up in the colour finder at 16-bit colour
* Fixed accented characters getting corrupted on import from 2.72
* Re-implemented #defines for GUIs (only if their names start with "g")
* Any GUIs with width or height of 0 are automatically adjusted to 1 on import from 2.72 to prevent errors
* Added some error handling around the source control initialization


What is an extender method?

It's a feature that people have been asking for for quite a while; the easiest way is to give an example:

function SayHello(this Character*)
{
this.Say("Hello");
}

and then later on in the script you can do:
player.SayHello();
character[EGO].SayHello();
etc

Basically, it allows module authors to add extra methods to the built-in types like Character.


What's still missing from 2.8?

* Autocomplete doesn't yet work with local variables
* Better way of importing interaction variables (currently crash game when attempt to use GetGraphicslVariable)
* Various import and export options
* help file, general help system
* Test Game command

As for my issue, yes, I use Perforce for licensed Unreal 3 development. It is installed and theres definatly a problem there.

I've improved the error handling in alpha 7 so you should get a more useful error message and be able to continue anyway. Perforce should definitely work with AGS, I've tried it and Steve McCrea has also reported success with it.

Did you have the Perforce SCC Plugin installed at some point and then un-install it? That might explain the error you're getting if it didn't uninstall properly. Try re-running the P4V installer and see if that clears up the problem.

[SSH]

Can extenders take OTHER arguments, too?

[Pumaman]

Yes, you can just do this for example:

function SayHello(this Character*, int jibble)
{
this.Say("Hello, %d", jibble);
}

[subspark]

Well our programmer reccommended turning the dll off by renaming it to p4scc.dll.no so that i wouldnt get this annoying hang up everytime Unreal3Ed starts. That MUST be the problem, CJ.

Thanks for the speedy fix. Your efforts are most appreciated mate. Thankyou.


On another note, all my sprites from a 2.72 game have turned out pure black. In other words I loaded an older project using AGS 2.8 and all the pixels are black. In a related matter, It would be really handy, Chris, if we sometime had an alternate viewing option for sprites. Too often I have to double click on the sprite to see what it is because the thumbnail is too small. Could we perhaps have an option to label our sprites and a choice between the names and the standard numbers. If I am to reimport all my sprites, I'm running blind as to which ones are which to replace.

Does anybody else second this? It would be a big help in my pipeline with the editor.

Enjoy your weekend people.

Cheers guys,
Paul W.

[Gilbert]

On another note, all my sprites from a 2.72 game have turned out pure black. In other words I loaded an older project using AGS 2.8 and all the pixels are black.

Hmmm. Can you check if the colour depth of the game was unchanged after imported in V2.8?

[subspark]

Absolutely. Checking again now.

Okay. When I first converted the old 2.72 project over to AGS 2.8 it was on another computer without Perforce installed. After I got back from overseas, I copied the 2.8 converted game to my home pc and havent been able to run it until this weekend thanks to CJ's fix. When I opened the already converted game up, the sprites were black.

I have reimported the original 2.72 game into AGS 2.8 alpha 7 and all is good with the sprites.

I don't beleive I can reproduce the problem without the laptop which I dont have.

Cheers,
PW.

[monkey0506]

Regarding extender methods...if I put said extender method into a script module do I have to put an import in the script header to make the function globally available (as with  normal functions)?

I'm going to go to the home computer right now and test it...I just figured I'd ask anyway.

Regarding "* Re-implemented #defines for GUIs (only if their names start with "g")"...okay now that I actually test I see that the 'g' isn't necessary for our 2.8 GUIs. Now I understand.

Also I wanted to ask if you've just been copying and pasting that "What's still missing" list. Just every time I read over it to see what you've got left to go I see that "GetGraphicslVariable"

[EDIT:]

Ermm...I have an error to report. I figured my GUIAnimation module would be a good place to start with this extender method stuff...so I've got an Animate(this GUI*, int view, int loop, ...) function. And apparently you do have to import it to use it globally (duh)...but...when I put "gEgogui.Animate(" in my GlobalScript.asc file and tried compiling...it crashed every time with an "AGSEditor.exe has encountered a problem and needs to close.  We are sorry for the inconvenience." error.

I thought it was a problem with the extender methods until I realized that perhaps typing out the opening parenthesis for a function without providing any parameters or the closing parenthesis might cause problems. :o

P.S. If I may, I would like to take this opportunity to suggest that when the ability to import/export modules (scripts) is reimplemented, you keep the SCM format that way we can make modules that are compatible with both 2.72 and 2.8 instead of having to release separate versions (otherwise will this #ifver stuff ever actually amount to anything? ) Thanks

P.S.S. Would it be possible (and I know I've asked several times in several different ways about this) to make the autocomplete detect #if[n]ver and react accordingly? Obviously said changes wouldn't be backwards-compatible...but at least it would work with future versions.

[Pumaman]

I have reimported the original 2.72 game into AGS 2.8 alpha 7 and all is good with the sprites.

Ok, if it's working with the latest version then I'm not too worried. Please do let me know if it happens again.

Ermm...I have an error to report. I figured my GUIAnimation module would be a good place to start with this extender method stuff...so I've got an Animate(this GUI*, int view, int loop, ...) function. And apparently you do have to import it to use it globally (duh)...but...when I put "gEgogui.Animate(" in my GlobalScript.asc file and tried compiling...it crashed every time with an "AGSEditor.exe has encountered a problem and needs to close.  We are sorry for the inconvenience." error.

Can you clarify what happened here?
Are you saying that when you typed the ( character the editor crashed, or that when you tried to compile the game it crashed? I haven't been able to reproduce it so far, what did you do exactly?

P.S. If I may, I would like to take this opportunity to suggest that when the ability to import/export modules (scripts) is reimplemented, you keep the SCM format that way we can make modules that are compatible with both 2.72 and 2.8 instead of having to release separate versions

It will certainly import SCM files, I guess it wouldn't do any harm to allow it to export them too.

[monkey0506]

I started to type out the function then started working on a different script (because I knew I hadn't actually written the function out yet) and forgot about it. It might just be my computer that's crashing but in the script header I had something to the effect of:

Code: ags

import Animate(this GUI*, int view, int loop, int delay, RepeatStyle=eOnce, BlockingStyle=eNoBlock, Direction=eForwards);

And then in the global script I had (inside of game_start()):

Code: ags

gEgogui.Animate(

For testing purposes I have a GUI (gEgogui) that runs through EGO's animation cycles. So that explains what gEgogui is. And like I said, I stopped typing after the opening parenthesis because I was working on another script and forgot to return.

There was no sort of error message generated by AGS itself (as I would suspect there (would/should) (be/have been)), Windows just reported that it had to terminate the program.

Again, it may have just been my computer, I don't know.

As for the SCM files, it would just be easier (for me as a module writer) if I wanted to create a module that was compatible with AGS 2.7* and 2.8* if I didn't have to create separate distributions.

[subspark]

My game compiles, but I get an error when I run it.

Code: ags

// Main global script file


//SOME TEMPLATE DEFINITIONS:

//-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#define MAX_MODES 			11//	put here how many cursor modes you have (= last
//						number in mode '#defines' in the Script Header+1).
//						Putting a lower number will cause strange errors.
//-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#define MAX_SAVEGAMES 			99//    Max number of savegames.
//-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#define EXTENSION_IDENTIFIER 		">"//	Character(s) extensions start with. 
#define VARIABLE_DEF_ACTION_EXTENSION	'v'//	Extension for variable default action things.
#define NO_DEF_ACTION_EXTENSION		'n'//	Extension for no default action things.
#define EXITS_EXTENSION			'e'//	Extension for exit type things.
//-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#define ALWAYS_GO_TO_HOTSPOTS 		1//	Read the template documentation for this.
//-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#define DEFAULT_FONT_HEIGHT 		8//	Used in SaveGame GUI script
//-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#define GUI_MAPS_WIDTH 			100//	Used for setting up the GUI label in map rooms .
#define GUI_MAPS_LABEL_FONT 		1//
//-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#define INV_UP_ARROW_ON_SPRITE 		39//	Used for setting the correct arrows so that the 
#define INV_UP_ARROW_OFF_SPRITE 	45//	player can see if the inventory is scrollable.
#define INV_DOWN_ARROW_ON_SPRITE 	40//
#define INV_DOWN_ARROW_OFF_SPRITE 	46//
//-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#define ACTION_LABEL_COLOR_NORMAL	 3//	Used in highlighting the action bar.
#define ACTION_LABEL_COLOR_HIGHLIGHTED 	11//
//-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#define BLANK_CURSOR_SPRITE_NUMBER 	1//	Used for changing the cursor back to 'wait' 
//							cursor after 'semi-blocking' functions finish. 
//-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#define FIRST_INV_SLOT_COORDS 	    161,159//	Any point inside the top left inventory slot.
//									coordinates used for inventory box.
//-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#define CONFIRM_GUIS_CHARACTER_YES	'Y'//	Keys for 'Yes' and 'No' in 'exit game' and 
#define CONFIRM_GUIS_CHARACTER_NO	'N'//	'restart game' GUI requests. (Always uppercase)
//-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#define SPECIAL_INV_MODE		1//	1 = LOOK mode (as defined in script header).
//							It is the mode that will trigger a left click
//							in the inventory if mode is WALK or PICKUP.
//-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Guis from 0 - 10

gAction
gMaingui
gDialogsgui
gOptions
gMaps
gPaused
gRestore
gSave
gSavetextbox
gConfirmexit
gRestart

The error message is this:

Error: FindGUIID: No matching GUI found: GUI may have been deleted

I thought #defines were reimplemented. Im not sure what is happening.

[monkey0506]

Does it by any chance tell you the line number that is crashing the game or which GUI ID it's looking for but can't find?

-----------------

BTW Chris...it's wonderful that we can implement our own extender methods...but is there any way it would be possible to implement extender properties? Basically it would be great if we could get rid of having to use get/set methods and local variables if we want to store our own data for the built-in types. Thanks either way.

[subspark]

No line number I'm sorry. Thats what was so confusing about it.

In order to hack around the problem, I basically changed all the names of the GUI's in the global scripts to numbers, compiled again and it ran without a hitch.

For a working LucasArts template for 2.8 a7 visit my post here:
http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/yabb/index.php?topic=31258.0

Cheers,
Paul W.

[monkey0506]

You could have done something like this (although annoying to type out and it shouldn't have been necessary):

Code: ags

#ifndef ACTION
#define ACTION 0
#endif
#ifndef MAINGUI
#define MAINGUI 1
#endif
// etc.

No idea what the problem might have been.

However...I never understood why you posted that code snippet as it has nothing to do with the GUI name #define-s...?

[Pumaman]

For testing purposes I have a GUI (gEgogui) that runs through EGO's animation cycles. So that explains what gEgogui is. And like I said, I stopped typing after the opening parenthesis because I was working on another script and forgot to return.

There was no sort of error message generated by AGS itself (as I would suspect there (would/should) (be/have been)), Windows just reported that it had to terminate the program.

I just tried this but it was fine. Are you able to reproduce the crash?

The error message is this:

Error: FindGUIID: No matching GUI found: GUI may have been deleted

Ah, I think there might be a problem with the implementation of the #defines. I'll take a look at it.

BTW Chris...it's wonderful that we can implement our own extender methods...but is there any way it would be possible to implement extender properties?

Custom properties are a separate request, it's been requested a few times but won't be happening for 2.8 I'm afraid.

[Stee]

Just my opinion, but with the removal of 320x200 support in Vista, would it be possible to get the compiled exe, to check the OS, and if its vista run the game in 640x480?

[Gilbert]

The games should work by choosing 640x400 and turning on letterbox mode in setup, I doubt if it's worth implementing to check for a specific version of OS to force switch the resolution.

[SupSuper]

Just my opinion, but with the removal of 320x200 support in Vista, would it be possible to get the compiled exe, to check the OS, and if its vista run the game in 640x480?

Actually 320x200 / 320x240 full-screen still works on Vista. It's just a mix of whether the application and video drivers execute it properly on Vista.

Thus it's still best to just use the Setup option to change it yourself since everyone might experience it differnetly.

[Pumaman]

Just my opinion, but with the removal of 320x200 support in Vista, would it be possible to get the compiled exe, to check the OS, and if its vista run the game in 640x480?

Do you have a source for that claim? As far as I'm aware, as SupSuper says Vista still supports 320x200 as long as your graphics card drivers do.

[subspark]

Yeah I would have though so. It's a common development resolution for Nintendo DS ipod other devices. I don't see microsoft discarding that screen format for quite some time.

[scotch]

You're right that Vista supports 320x200 for games, it's the classic PC resolution and every PC graphics card supports it too (although it's not accurate to say it's the resolution of the DS, iPod, or most handhelds, but I don't see why that'd make a difference to MS wanting to support it). Vista graphics card drivers are pretty new, so if it doesn't work right now, it may soon. However, I think the main problem people have is with their monitors not supporting particular combinations of resolution, depth and refresh rate. I know I have that problem sometimes. I don't think there's a good way to detect it and up the resolution automatically, unfortunately.

[SupSuper]

I've decided to look a bit into this and there seems to be something up with how AGS switches to such low resolutions in Vista. If you run a full-screen AGS game in 320x200/320x240, the screen will blink a couple of times (possibly trying to switch resolution) until eventually it gives up with something like this:
---------------------------
Adventure Game Studio
---------------------------
There was a problem initializing graphics mode 320 x 200 (8-bit).
(Problem: 'Can not set video mode')
Try to correct the problem, or seek help from the AGS homepage.

Possible causes:
* your graphics card drivers do not support this resolution. Run the game setup program and try the other resolution.
* the graphics filter you have selected does not work. Try another filter.
---------------------------
OK  
---------------------------
This could still be just a driver issue, but since other applications like DOSBox or The Games Factory switch to 320x200 fine, it might be worth looking into. Though you can just setup to 640x400/640x480 or to run in a window and that'll work.

I'm gonna do some more Vista testing to look for any other issues.

[subspark]

although it's not accurate to say it's the resolution of the DS, iPod, or most handhelds

Really. I thought most handhelds besides PSP use 320x200. From memory this is pretty standard cross platform.

[scotch]

About SupSuper's findings: that does seem odd, it's definitely trying to set an appropriate mode... should be fine if it works in DosBox etc. Does AGS do anything unusual when setting the display mode, CJ?
Still, we can hope that these issues will disappear with driver and OS updates. Luckily most people are waiting for SP1

subspark:
There's not much of a standard on gaming handhelds and mp3 players, but perhaps you're thinking of the squarer 320x240, which is a common resolution on phones/PDAs (it's called QVGA), and the GP2X uses it for example.

320x200 is pretty unusual because it's not a square pixel mode on 4:3 displays. I suppose exists because it fits in a neat 64kB of memory. I'd usually recommend against using it for AGS games (as well as 640x400), because people almost never draw the graphics properly for it, but it's not a huge deal I suppose.

[subspark]

No your right actually. I was thinking 320x240 but was typing 320x200.

[larino87]

Wow, I haven't really made a game yet or anything. I just messed around with AGS until I get an idea for one but I gotta say--looks wise-- this version looks a lot more easier to work with than 2.7 and prettier too... but that's just me

[Pumaman]

About SupSuper's findings: that does seem odd, it's definitely trying to set an appropriate mode... should be fine if it works in DosBox etc. Does AGS do anything unusual when setting the display mode, CJ?

It does try a few alternate combinations. For example, if your game is 320x200 at 16-bit, then AGS should automatically try the following resolutions before giving up:

320x200x16
320x200x15
320x240x16
320x240x15

However maybe it should try 640x480 as well, since not supporting 320x200 is getting more common these days?

Wow, I haven't really made a game yet or anything. I just messed around with AGS until I get an idea for one but I gotta say--looks wise-- this version looks a lot more easier to work with than 2.7 and prettier too... but that's just me

Yeah, the 2.7 editor does look and feel quite "retro"; and this 2.8 version will provide a much easier base on which to expand.



Anyway, 2.7 Alpha 8 is now up. This includes these changes:

* Added Test Game command
* Added VOX file compilation, including PAM file compilation
* Improved autocomplete to show local variables and function parameters
* Added ability to import script modules
* Added a couple of advanced options to the Auto Number Speech feature
* Added preferences dialog
* Importing game from 2.72 now creates script code for Check & Set Graphical Variable interactions
* Fixed GUI #defines not being recognised by the game engine

I think that'll be the last alpha release, it's very nearly ready for Beta.

It's still lacking some import/export features, but that's what I want to ask you guys. Rather than me just re-implementing the same import and export stuff as 2.7 had, what do you want it to be able to import/export? I take it GUIs and Characters are useful to able to do?

[GarageGothic]

I get this error message when importing my 2.72 Final 2 game with the new Alpha. It imports fine in Alpha 6. Didn't try Alpha 7, because I never got around to downloading it and can't find a link now.

---------------------------
Adventure Game Studio
---------------------------
An error ocurred whilst trying to load your game. The error was: Object reference not set to an instance of an object.
If you cannot resolve the error, please post on the AGS Technical Forum for assistance.
Error details: System.NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object.

   at AGS.Editor.Components.MusicAndSpeechComponent.ReadFileTimes(XmlNode node, String elementName, Dictionary`2 fileStatuses)

   at AGS.Editor.Components.MusicAndSpeechComponent.FromXml(XmlNode node)

   at AGS.Editor.AGSEditor.ImportedOldGame()

   at AGS.Editor.OldGameImporter.ImportGameFromAGS272(String gameToLoad, Boolean useWizard)

   at AGS.Editor.Tasks.LoadGameFromDisk(String gameToLoad, Boolean interactive)

   at AGS.Editor.InteractiveTasks.LoadGameFromDisk(String gameToLoad)
---------------------------
OK   
---------------------------

[Pumaman]

Ooops my bad, didn't test this release with a 2.72 import. I've uploaded a fixed version, thanks for letting me know.

[GarageGothic]

Thanks CJ. This time it imported fine. Haven't found any errors so far.

I just noticed that the 2.8 editor still displays corrupted transparent areas for alpha channel sprites, just like the old one. Is there any chance of getting rid of this annoyance?

Edit: Regarding import/export, as previously discussed it would be very convenient to have a text dump/re-import function using a format more similar to the translation source (no code fragments whatsoever, pure String/strings, GUI texts and dialogs).

[Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens]

Would be nice to be able to import/export objects as well, especially if you make them independent entities that can be moved to different rooms. 

[SSH]

Export of Objects, GUIs, Characters, Sprite folders would all be fab and a way to import/export a set of things... say import everything importable in a specified zip file would be great!

[monkey0506]

I think a multiple-sprite exporter would be nice. So many times I've selected multiple sprites, right-clicked, and said to myself, "Oh yeah..."

The sprite folder export would work just fine.

Also if Objects could be made room-independent...that would be cool.

* Added ability to import script modules

But I've noticed there's still no support for exporting SCM files. Again, the primary reason for me asking is the portability of our scripts between 2.7* and 2.8*. Besides, there's not a proper way to port scripts between 2.8 games as it is. I've found that by modifying the Game.agf file to add in the appropriate ASC and ASH files, I can import 2.8 scripts...but that method does require one to ignore this line:

<!--DO NOT EDIT THIS FILE. It is automatically generated by the AGS Editor, changing it manually could break your game-->

The XML tags are all very simple to figure out...just it wouldn't be too hard to mistype something that might possibly corrupt all your game files. Isn't propaganda fun**?

I suppose this falls under "various import/export options" but there's currently no way (aside from editing the Game.agf file directly) to import rooms. Just thought I'd mention it so as it won't be forgotten.

**DISCLAIMER: Propaganda is fun. Rhetorical questions are not.

[deadsuperhero]

The one, true thing I would love to see:
A Mac and Linux version editor. I know, it seems a little overstated here sometimes.
But if I could get a native version of AGS for Linux, with specialized AGS Linux-compatible games, that'd be dandy.
Also, a "create for operating system" option would be useful ("Windows/Mac/Linux") for developers on say, a Mac, who want to make their games completely cross-platform.
Besides which, there's not many good Linux Game Maker programs around...yet...

[Pumaman]

I just noticed that the 2.8 editor still displays corrupted transparent areas for alpha channel sprites, just like the old one. Is there any chance of getting rid of this annoyance?

Where are you talking about this being annoying, in particular? Is it with alpha channeled objects when you're trying to view them on the room background?

Regarding import/export, as previously discussed it would be very convenient to have a text dump/re-import function using a format more similar to the translation source (no code fragments whatsoever, pure String/strings, GUI texts and dialogs).

Would an option to import a translation file and replace the game texts with it solve this one?

Would be nice to be able to import/export objects as well, especially if you make them independent entities that can be moved to different rooms. 

I'm not really sure about this, wouldn't you effectively just be exporting a sprite? Or do you mean including interaction code?

Also if Objects could be made room-independent...that would be cool.

I'm not really sure what you guys mean by this. In AGS, objects are room-dependant and characters are not. If you want a room-independant object, use a character.

Export of Objects, GUIs, Characters, Sprite folders would all be fab and a way to import/export a set of things... say import everything importable in a specified zip file would be great!

You can already export a sprite folder by right-clicking and choosing "export all sprites in folder". Or were you thinking of something different?

But I've noticed there's still no support for exporting SCM files.

Give me a chance, Rome wasn't built in a day!

there's currently no way (aside from editing the Game.agf file directly) to import rooms

Hmm, interesting one. I guess this is something that people might want to do.

The one, true thing I would love to see:
A Mac and Linux version editor

Hopefully, the new editor using .NET might make it easier to run on mac/linux, once Mono catches up.

[monkey0506]

Would be nice to be able to import/export objects as well, especially if you make them independent entities that can be moved to different rooms. 

I'm not really sure about this, wouldn't you effectively just be exporting a sprite? Or do you mean including interaction code?

Also if Objects could be made room-independent...that would be cool.

I'm not really sure what you guys mean by this. In AGS, objects are room-dependant and characters are not. If you want a room-independant object, use a character.

Aww Chris...no room-independent objects? Oh well. It's nothing I really necessarily need.

Export of Objects, GUIs, Characters, Sprite folders would all be fab and a way to import/export a set of things... say import everything importable in a specified zip file would be great!

You can already export a sprite folder by right-clicking and choosing "export all sprites in folder". Or were you thinking of something different?

I didn't know you could do that! Hooray!

But I've noticed there's still no support for exporting SCM files.

Give me a chance, Rome wasn't built in a day!

But it was destroyed in a day!...or something. I was just mentioning it again so you won't forget it. I've been working with 2.8 as much as possible to get used to the changes, and it's just a hassle trying to port scripts between games ATM (copy & paste FTW! )

there's currently no way (aside from editing the Game.agf file directly) to import rooms

Hmm, interesting one. I guess this is something that people might want to do.

Would that be why 2.72- had the "Load Room..." feature?

Speaking of rooms though, I've noticed that (as best I can tell) room scripts aren't saved unless the room itself has been opened (i.e., you have the room tab and the room script open then choose "Save Room"). Rather, the script is saved, but none of the changes are compiled into the game.

Also, it might just be my computer being it's normal craptastic self...but I can't get 2.8 to properly import any sprites. Well...they appear to import fine, but then in-game appear severely corrupted.

Apparently it was just my computer. Importing sprites works fine.

[alexhans]

mmmm.... Its odd... It'l take time to get used to.

BAD THING:  The net framework 2.0 is a 22.4 mb download.  And in a semifast machine took almost 15 min to install completely.
I wonder if its gonna work in the machine I have at home Pentium II 128 RAM

Where on earth can I find the Module manager...?
What happened to the wonderfull keyshortcuts like Ctrl+W,etc that made my life happier...?
the tags above are handy, but if you like working faster than with the mouse shortcuts are the way to go... dont forget about them and about us keyboard users 

nothing further... thanks for your time...

                                           Alexhans

[monkey0506]

A 22.4 MB download isn't that bad these days. Most (notice I say most) users can handle this without much problem. Those who can't have several options at their disposal: Upgrade to a faster-speed internet service, download the program from another location than their primary internet connection, continue using AGS 2.72-, etc.

It's not a great solution, but it is after all in the name of progress.

The good thing is, once the .NET framework is installed, you can use all sorts of programs that require it without having to worry about needing to reinstall the framework again (unless you need to delete it for some reason). Granted, it could be an annoyance at first, but it's for the greater good!

There isn't currently any type of "Module manager" in AGS 2.8. Chris is still working on implementing a method for exporting scripts, but the good news is you can import them! Simply right-click on "Scripts" then choose "Import script..."

Again, there's no option yet for exporting scripts, so if you really need to distribute that script you've been working on in 2.8 you'll probably need to copy and paste the code into 2.72 and export the module from there. But I imagine (WARNING: What follows is the personal opinion of a monkey. Chris Jones is in no way affiliated with any monkeys of any sort, excluding the fact that he saw one once at the zoo. Chris Jones cannot be held responsible for said opinion of said monkey. By reading said opinion you acknowledge that Chris Jones has waived liability for the opinion, and agree to exclude him from any type of responsibility up to and including, but not limited to, legal action, verbal abuse, and threatening emails, for any ensuing consequences of said opinion. If you do not agree to these terms you must click here now.) that Chris will probably get that issue resolved within the next release or two.

As for shortcut keys, some of them are gone, some have been reassigned. Ctrl+W is no longer a shortcut key in AGS. You can use Ctrl+S instead. It won't close the script but since you can have multiple scripts open at once now, as well as compile the game with them open, it's no longer really necessary. Just rewire your brain to use Ctrl+S instead! "Test game" used to be Ctrl+T. Now it's F5. Again, just learn the new key to use.

[GarageGothic]

Regarding import/export, as previously discussed it would be very convenient to have a text dump/re-import function using a format more similar to the translation source (no code fragments whatsoever, pure String/strings, GUI texts and dialogs).

Would an option to import a translation file and replace the game texts with it solve this one?

Yes, that would be perfect - as long as it actually substitutes the strings in the code rather than only replacing them on compile.

[Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens]

I'm not really sure about this, wouldn't you effectively just be exporting a sprite? Or do you mean including interaction code?

Yes, yes I am.  Objects exported as little packages that could be reused, even duplicated would be nice.  Doors don't typically vary much in what they do, for instance, and a little tweak of the target room and coords would make adding multiple doors a snap (unless you needed to change the image for a different direction/style).  This of course hinges on them not being tied to one room anymore.

[Lt. Smash]

so I wanted to ask, if there's going an engine update after the release of v2.8 final edition.
If so it would be wise to create a new thread where all the AGS'ers could post their suggestions for 2.9 or 3.0.
Then its also time to implement the tracker entries.

But there are suggestions, where an rebuild of the engine is indispensable, like vector-based boxes for roomareas(walk,behind,hotspot,area) like they were in the SCUMM engine or an inbuilt parallaxscrolling or bitwise graded lightning of chars and objects and many more...


but for now: very good work CJ. The 2.8 editor looks very good.

[Pumaman]

so I wanted to ask, if there's going an engine update after the release of v2.8 final edition.
If so it would be wise to create a new thread where all the AGS'ers could post their suggestions for 2.9 or 3.0.

Let's not get carried away, let's get 2.8 out of the way first.
And suggestion threads don't work, we had one once but it just ran out of control with random suggestions from everybody.

Anyway, I'm about to release the first beta, so I'll lock this thread.