Making Puzzles in AGS

Started by JackAnimated, Mon 15/01/2007 21:23:57

Previous topic - Next topic

JackAnimated

Hi, Im currently working on my first game in AGS and was having problems with making puzzles. I am working on the puzzles in the first room and I feel like they are too easy and too few. Also, it feels like I am just creating a sequence of inventory items to collect, not really puzzles. Something like;

get item to unlock cuboard.
get new item from cuboard to reach behind clock.
get newer item from behind clock and use to get even newer item... etc

Know what I mean? It seems very linear.

Could you give your opinions and tips on creating puzzles and creating branches of puzzles as well as different kinds of puzzles.

Thanks very much, hope this was clear.

Jack

ManicMatt

Yeah my first game was a bit like that!

My supposed tips:

1) Try to avoid generic puzzles like using keys/keycards.

2) Start off with the goal in mind. Work your way backwards! Say there is a lonely man in a house who's fish died, and he wants a new one, and your goal is to get him a fish. Now you could either go for a lake/canal scene, or a pet shop. Think which place could generate more interesting puzzles. Heck, if it's a silly game you could attempt to rescue a fish from a restaurant! Lets use the lake as an example. So there's your lake, and you want to get the fish swimming in it. You can't fish, but there is a fisherman here who can. Okay, you want him to get your fish for you, but it would be too easy if he could just get it for you by you asking him. So lets make him unco-operative. Perhaps we want to fool him into catching our fish? Maybe either blind him, mess with his rod when he isnt looking, or convince him the fish is a rare find! Then if he catches the fish, he'll want it for himself, ergo another puzzle!

The next puzzle being that you gotta convince or steal the fish off him.

Ermmmm... I just made that up off the top of my head. Did it help you to see the way I think when making puzzles? (Thats how I do it in my work in progress anyway)


police brutality

I think it depends on the genre of the game.

Survival/horror would need "physical" puzzles. Anything towards a "get out of X" or "find help" objective. Examples

-Breaching things with tools/escaping to gain access to other areas
-Barricading doors (There should be a time limit)
-Fixing things (Radio, vehicle, spotlight), finding the things to be used in these puzzles
-Just finding things like bandages, ammo or weapons
-Mazes
-Hiding from something

Mystery (This is just my opinion) needs much less travelling, and inspecting things closely.
-Give the player plenty of text to read/tapes to listen, and among it a safe combination or hints to where  to go/who to talk to next, for example
-Plenty of dialog, and something useful among it (Could be a item, or hints, or "unlocking" a new room for the player to explore)
-Put something 'odd' in the room, and make the player try to find out what happened once he examined it
-Following someone or just her/his traces
-The player should be able to inspect closely every part of the room (example- the floor of the closet) works well with a "I'm not supposed to be here" scenario

I know this is weak advice, but try to think how it would apply to your story.

Ghost

Quote from: JackAnimated on Mon 15/01/2007 21:23:57
I am working on the puzzles in the first room and I feel like they are too easy and too few.

Never underestimate a player, but also never underestimate your puzzles. Things you put in as puzzles may be regarded "too easy" by yourself, but may actually be quite hard to solve by a player who doesn't know how to solve said puzzle.

Item-based puzzles are, of course, something that shouldn't be the main topic of any game. There are excellent item puzzles, and there are such that feel like a boring extension to gameplay. It's quite easy though to make them still interesting by adding an unusual twist. To give an example, using ice to cool down something is a stale puzzle. But making the ice melt after a few steps/minutes/room transits, forcing the player to maybe use knowledge of the architecture would add to it (this has, of course, been done already, but the principle is sound.)

And never, ever, resource to outside knowledge, like forcing the player to know about the atomic density of materials just to solve a puzzle in a game where you play a brute guy who would've trouble to recognise a book with lots of pictures.  ;D

goldenTouch

This may sound strange, but you should not make the puzzles seem like puzzles.
I have tried some of the games here, and very often I turn off the game because the story is gone. It's all about the puzzles.

An adventure gamer wants to explore and be swept away by a compelling story!
The puzzles should be a big part of exploring the game, and not just using things on things.

The PDF file provided earlier in this thread is very good.
Read that, and always remember that if you can catch the player's attention and make him/her WANT to play the game, he/she will be interested in trying out the puzzles.

Ben Jordan Case 4 is a great example. You want to find out what's happening, so you solve the puzzles to get to the answers.

Another great example is a game I can't remember the name of.
About an elf trying to get a demonstration going.

Maybe someone else remembers it?

Stupot

Avoid one room puzzles that have no bearing on the progression of the game... whilst planning my work in progress I scribbled out an entire room and everything in it because I realised it was completely pointless...
It was the hallway to my character's appartment.  And he had to get into the door, which was locked, so he had to look under the mat, and find a rod then he had to use a picture on a wall and get the hook the attatch the hook to the rod and use it on his letter box to retreive the key inside...
sounds fun, but had absolutely no meaning for the storyline and it was all done in the same room. A Puzzle is better when it involves several rooms and is interwoven with the other puzzles and plot.. not just thrown in the way as an obstacle for the sake of it.

And also, I realised that my character would have had his key on him anyway, why would he want to set up a puzzle for himself to get into his own flat?

lo_res_man

because he is a hardcore adventure gamer? ;D
the puzzle would have worked better if it had been someone else apartment
†Å"There is much pleasure to be gained from useless knowledge.†
The Restroom Wall

Erenan

Quote from: Andy (GT) on Mon 15/01/2007 23:24:35
Another great example is a game I can't remember the name of.
About an elf trying to get a demonstration going.

Maybe someone else remembers it?

Cedric and the Revolution
The Bunker

Peder 🚀

Quote from: ManicMatt on Mon 15/01/2007 21:32:21
Yeah my first game was a bit like that!

My supposed tips:

1) Try to avoid generic puzzles like using keys/keycards.

2) Start off with the goal in mind. Work your way backwards! Say there is a lonely man in a house who's fish died, and he wants a new one, and your goal is to get him a fish. Now you could either go for a lake/canal scene, or a pet shop. Think which place could generate more interesting puzzles. Heck, if it's a silly game you could attempt to rescue a fish from a restaurant! Lets use the lake as an example. So there's your lake, and you want to get the fish swimming in it. You can't fish, but there is a fisherman here who can. Okay, you want him to get your fish for you, but it would be too easy if he could just get it for you by you asking him. So lets make him unco-operative. Perhaps we want to fool him into catching our fish? Maybe either blind him, mess with his rod when he isnt looking, or convince him the fish is a rare find! Then if he catches the fish, he'll want it for himself, ergo another puzzle!

The next puzzle being that you gotta convince or steal the fish off him.

Ermmmm... I just made that up off the top of my head. Did it help you to see the way I think when making puzzles? (Thats how I do it in my work in progress anyway)

(sorry for offtopic)
You just made a new game!!
Can I use these ideas to make a game? :P.
Wanted to make a short game about saving a fish from a restaurant now!!


[OnTopic]
I am really bad usually at puzzles when I do them myself, but with another brain by my side working with me many good puzzles pops out of our heads.

Anyway, I think the others have said mostly what is to say..


Peder.

ManicMatt

HAHAHA!!  ;D

Not sure if you're being serious, as it sounds like you're joking, but feel free to make a fish saving game with those puzzles! Just stick me in the credits somewhere yo.

It'd be cool to see a game inspired by my random brainstorming!

Mr Flibble

I remember hearing somewhere that puzzles should help you to tell a story, rather than block the player's progress through it.

You know, why put in a puzzle where a character needs to find the key to his own door if he's a business man with an organised house?

I can't think of many good examples of this idea (if I could, my game would be done by now). I suppose other advice might be that once the player has worked out what to do, it should be extremely easy to perform the action. I really don't like it when I know what the solution is, but the execution of it is somehow awkward.
Ah! There is no emoticon for what I'm feeling!

SMF spam blocked by CleanTalk