Relationship between Games and Film

[TheJBurger]

Hi folks!

I have a pressing problem that I need assistance on, so here is the gist:

Basically, I have the opportunity to design a 4 week syllabus for a course curriculum exploring the nature between games and film.

But what does that mean exactly? That's what I need help with. I need to come up with a series of issues or topics in which I can apply film history and theory to game design to an extent that it would warrant a class curriculum. These issues should contain enough content to explore for at least maybe (4) class meetings, approximately an hour each. Analyzing specific films and applying their principles to game design (or exploring the difference between the two), I think, is the general hope.

If anyone has ideas, I would much appreciate them! And the unofficial due date for this curriculum is a week from today, Friday, Oct 1.

Thanks!
--Josh

[Wonkyth]

One thing that I think applies a great deal to both games and films is the Rule Of Perception!

[Anian]

Protagonist (stereotypes, character), cutscenes (directing, style, similarity) perhaps?

[Radiant]

I would recommend TVtropes.

Start from these two articles and go from there.

[Snarky]

This thread has some advice that might be relevant.

[GarageGothic]

Roger-fucking-Ebert! (Personally I have no beef with Ebert's stance on video games, I did however lose any kind of trust in his reviews after the unfair bashing of Kick-Ass)

[straydogstrut]

Pick some books on film theory and see where they crossover to get an idea of the popular topics. Then see how you can apply these to games. Two big, obvious ones I would suggest are gender representation and auteur theory, the latter of which has been covered plenty in games already, however.

I had the pleasure of being taught by, and studying the book by, Jill Nelmes. While my film studies class was presented as distinct from my games design classes - there was no games discussion at all - i'm pretty sure there's plenty to compare/contrast if you look deep enough. It's all subjective anyway. I did a piece on gender representation in the film Boy's Don't Cry and found more links between the film and the theory than I expected.

Good luck with this, i'd be interested to hear how it turns out.

[m0ds]

Most important one I can think of on the theory side is misé en scene: The what and the why of things that exist in a scene, "choices have been made" etc.

Anti-hero's, Good vs Evil, Intertextuality. Also the many cases where films have been thought to lead to bad behaviour and the various experiments to test that theory, and the relationship with games (ie Manhunter and how some people apparently copied traits), it'd be good to discuss why they don't actually run experiments like this with games because there are far more copycat crimes mimicked from games than there are films these days.

Good luck!

[TheJBurger]

Thanks, dudes, and dudettes!

I am considering to focus on a specific film genre for the 4 weeks of the curriculum, and apply that to game design, and so I came up with the genre of film noir.

Does anyone have any suggestions on pertinent films (noir) to analyze? I have put the following down (though not all are strictly film noir):
Citizen Kane (1941), M (1931), Double Indemnity (1944), Touch of Evil (1958).

(I specifically did not put down the following, because I have seen them already: Casablanca, The Maltese Falcon, The Big Sleep, and the Third Man.)

Anyone have other suggestions?

[Ali]

An interesting area to explore would be why bad film plots make good game plots. Compare Anthony Burgess's observation that bad literature makes for good Cinema. Traditionally 'trash' types of novel, like the detective novel have been adapted into some of the best Hollywood films. Pirates of the Carribean is a mediocre film with some very bad sequels, while Monkey Island is kind of the adventure games.

You could argue this is because Cinema and Video Games are degenerate art forms, but I don't believe that's the case. With Games the issue is predictability.

The Director Alexander MacKendrick defines suspense as anticipation mingled with uncertainty. We can guess what is going to happen, but are interested to know if we're right. In games this is different because we are active participants in the narrative. Like in real life, we have to anticipate what we want to happen and then attempt to make it a reality. What would be a tediously predictable story in a film is often enjoyable in a game because it helps to guide our actions.

[Dualnames]

Great would be to refer on  how a good game with a great story becomes a piece of crap. Namely, Max Payne. Or also how lately the trend of turning games into movies has become a trend.

[Alun]

An interesting area to explore would be why bad film plots make good game plots.

Really?  Well, that bodes well for one of my intended future projects, Plan 9 From Outer Space: The Adventure Game.

[GarageGothic]

Really?  Well, that bodes well for one of my intended future projects, Plan 9 From Outer Space: The Adventure Game.

You realize that already exists, right?

Edit: And as for film noir - Kiss Me Deadly (1955). I don't recall seeing it referenced in any game (apart from my own  ), but it's noir at its finest. Also an excellent film to look at to compare the way Grim Fandango and Discworld Noir recycles noir-tropes and plots would be Dead Men Don't Wear Plaid, one of the best noir paradies ever.

[Igor Hardy]

Anyone have other suggestions?

Dave Gilbert can recommend you a lot of great ones. I'm still very grateful to him for mentioning Night and The City (1950) in one of Emerald City Confidential interviews, because it is truly powerful.

Some other notable titles that spring to my mind:

The Postman Always Rings Twice (1946)

Angels with Dirty Faces (1938) - Cagney + Bogart

The Lady from Shanghai (1947) - primarily an Orson Welles film, but noir too, and the dialogs are sublime noir!

[Alun]

You realize that already exists, right?

I... actually did not realize that.  Hm.  Oh well.

It was a stupid idea anyway.  Stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid...

[GarageGothic]

It was a stupid idea anyway.  Stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid...

Don't say that, I would have played it for sure. And in any case, "Glen or Glenda: Quest for the Angora Sweater" is still up for grabs

[Ali]

I think Alun's quoting the film. Something along the lines of 'Your stupid brains... Stupid, stupid!'.

How cool am I for remembering that, and posting it online in the middle of the night? Answer: Quite.

[GarageGothic]

Oh yeah, the alien goes off on some rant at the end about how humanity is going to blow itself up with the Solaranite (sp?) bombs, is that where it's from?

[Alun]

Right, although I'd apparently remembered him repeating the word more times than he actually does.

[Dave Gilbert]

Regarding noir, the one thing to really remember is that it's not all foggy streets, dark alleys, men with fedoras, and femmes fatales.  What makes the best noir, for me anyway, is the anti-hero.  Someone who does the good thing for the wrong reasons or vice versa.  An essentially "damned" character who is constantly on the edge of redemption, and the suspense comes from waiting to see which way he will fall. 

Ascovel mentioned Night and the City, and it is terrific at doing this.  The main character does something that's kind of questionable, and then things go horribly wrong, then keeps digging himself even deeper trying to get out of it.  Then he is faced with A Choice that could either redeem him or damn him further.  The ending is extremely powerful.  And there wasn't a single trenchcoat or foggy street to be seen in the entire movie!