Author Topic: Trumpmageddon  (Read 86678 times)

Snarky

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Re: Trumpmageddon
« Reply #520 on: 08 Jan 2021, 07:31 »
Are you seriously claiming that the Black Lives Matter movement, protesting against the unjustified killings of black people by police officers never held to account, is comparably "extreme" to the QAnon movement, a cult built around conspiracy theories that hold that Democrats are Satanist, cannibalistic pedophiles who secretly rule the world, and who await a day of judgment when Donald Trump will come in his glory and lead them to throw the evildoers in concentration camps?

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Re: Trumpmageddon
« Reply #521 on: 08 Jan 2021, 07:37 »
They're very different brands of crazy, but until Capitol Hill Qanon at least didn't have any deaths on its hands, so I guess we can now say Qanon has caught up in that regard. They are, however, extremists in sharing the same set of tools and ideals. Both believe they are on a righteous path (some more accurately than others) and doing the right thing, both are prone to extreme worldviews, make unrealistic demands of society to sate their needs and wants, and now are both proven to be capable of extreme action and violence.

I've seen a BLM oriented American friend of mine go from "We need to be more active and vote" to "I think it's okay to burn down the city hall and see some cops get killed if that gets people to listen to us" in less than a year.
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KyriakosCH

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Re: Trumpmageddon
« Reply #522 on: 08 Jan 2021, 07:43 »
While I am not in favor of Antifa, I don't think it can be that compared to Qanon, cause Qanon involves conspiracy theories which are just... not in touch with reality. At least Antifa and BLM are tentatively based on reality.
I also don't view BLM as in tautology with Antifa; BLM is something very tied to the US (for better or worse, black people's rights don't have the same history in other western countries, probably due to relative lack of numbers there).

That said, not all alt-right is Qanon, and I suppose the non-Qanon (ie without the theories including mass pedophilia and murder of babies, etc) alt-right is comparable to Antifa to a degree.
« Last Edit: 08 Jan 2021, 07:45 by KyriakosCH »

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Re: Trumpmageddon
« Reply #523 on: 08 Jan 2021, 07:47 »
To me it just seems the whole "based on what, and to what degree, is this extremist movement bad compared to the others" conversation is pretty pointless. Violent political extremism in all aspects should be curbed and pacified if a nation is to remain a place of law, order and justice. Creating a tier list of who's worse than who is irrelevant to that end, save for the time-sensitive risk analyses produced by law enforcement as they do their work.
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Re: Trumpmageddon
« Reply #524 on: 08 Jan 2021, 08:03 »
Funny how the closeted fascist reasonable centrist comes out of the woodwork with a bunch of horseshoe theory crap right after I posted about right-wing brain rot.

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Re: Trumpmageddon
« Reply #525 on: 08 Jan 2021, 08:12 »
I didn't disagree with anything you said, but nice to see that believing that violent extremism is bad makes me a closet fascist. I'd imagine it's that exact sort of gatekeeping that's keeping a lot of people from wanting to have anything to do with certain worldviews and groups.
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Re: Trumpmageddon
« Reply #526 on: 08 Jan 2021, 08:36 »
I'm calling you a fascist because of fascist statements you've made in the past, and because you're equating a largely non-violent protest movement against police murdering innocent people for the crime of being black with deluded conspiracy believers and antisemites who advocate for a 2nd civil war, something only people plagued by right-wing brain rot do.

And also because you literally said being anti-fascist is self-serving extremism less than two hours ago, a sentiment commonly uttered by right-wing demagogues and proto-fascists the world over.

You might as well put a MAGA hat on your avatar, you're not fooling anyone.

(And your last sentence is exactly the famous trope of the guy who's definitely not a nazi becoming a nazi because of all the SJWs who keep calling him a nazi. You couldn't imply "closeted fascist" more if you tried)
« Last Edit: 08 Jan 2021, 08:47 by Khris »

KyriakosCH

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Re: Trumpmageddon
« Reply #527 on: 08 Jan 2021, 09:25 »
I don't want to be caught in the crossfire, but... can't we all just get along? :) I mean this is just a web forum.

Snarky

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Re: Trumpmageddon
« Reply #528 on: 08 Jan 2021, 10:08 »
Yes, please tone it down, Khris, and focus on arguments not persons. We've been over that particular ground many times before, anyway.

(It's awkward for me to play a double role of mod and participant in discussions like this. We should get a dedicated mod for this forum.)

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Re: Trumpmageddon
« Reply #529 on: 08 Jan 2021, 10:30 »
(And your last sentence is exactly the famous trope of the guy who's definitely not a nazi becoming a nazi because of all the SJWs who keep calling him a nazi. You couldn't imply "closeted fascist" more if you tried)

I guess there's nothing to do, then. I am undone! I cannot resist!
Curse thee, oh soyboy leftie! I will wear my MAGA hat with pride and dignity as you cuck yourself on the altar of woke socialism! Choke on your precious bread, marxist!

(Good enough? Did we get the sarcasm layered on thick enough?)
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Re: Trumpmageddon
« Reply #530 on: 08 Jan 2021, 11:11 »
Gentlemen, PLEASE!

That damned man is not worth it. This odious miasma he perpetually seem to generate is not worth it. Have some tea, let it be.

The Trumpet has finally shat in the blue cupboard so fiercely that it is inoperable, and by all accounts he is done. Done on the presidential throne, done in New York, done on the internet vomit machine. He will be out of office one day, and with these events, he may also finally go out of style.

We, meanwhile, will all be here tomorrow, when he is presumably packed off to Russia (if Ivan will take him in). We will have to get along when he is gone. It is not worth it, gentlemen.

EDIT: I am off to work, but surely we can all come along to laugh at the Trumpet later? I could bring a pie. Stay safe and stay calm!
« Last Edit: 08 Jan 2021, 11:16 by Reiter »

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Re: Trumpmageddon
« Reply #531 on: 08 Jan 2021, 12:16 »
For my part, while it's less about Trump and more about the future, I more interested in how the next 4 years will go. While I've been pessimistic about things, and remain so, I am genuinely curious to see what team Biden can actually do, and what steps they take to resolve the ongoing conflict in the US. While I may be too short sighted to see a solution, maybe people smarter than me have ways of actually bridging the divide and resolving some of the tensions that are currently dividing America?

Whether one thinks Trump was the cause or effect of this divide, what do you folks think might be required to heal the nation? What can be done to de-radicalize the extremes and help give the regular people who just want work, peace and stability a voice in a society where, currently, it seems the group that screams the loudest gets all the attention?
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KyriakosCH

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Re: Trumpmageddon
« Reply #532 on: 08 Jan 2021, 13:54 »
I don't see how polarization - already extreme - won't just keep increasing. Until either some state(s) secede or there's a world war.

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Re: Trumpmageddon
« Reply #533 on: 08 Jan 2021, 14:13 »
You mean a civil war, right?
I feel that's too extreme, even with the high level of polarization and constant expansion of radicalism. The actual underlying issues aren't such that I could imagine any states seceding from the union, let alone doing so in a group large enough to threaten the whole of the union. The average quality of life across the states is high enough that vast majority of people won't be willing to risk that.
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KyriakosCH

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Re: Trumpmageddon
« Reply #534 on: 08 Jan 2021, 14:23 »
You mean a civil war, right?
I feel that's too extreme, even with the high level of polarization and constant expansion of radicalism. The actual underlying issues aren't such that I could imagine any states seceding from the union, let alone doing so in a group large enough to threaten the whole of the union. The average quality of life across the states is high enough that vast majority of people won't be willing to risk that.

I mean a world war, ala Britain having another reason to enter ww1 (mass revolts in Ireland) :)
I think the US has two very distinct, and incompatible by now, ideologies, and sooner or later this will mean two countries. Although massive events (such as a world war) obviously can change that.

I'd personally not want the US to split, by the way. In my view (for better or worse) the US can be seen as the leading euro nation, and Europe itself has far worse to look to than the US as its implicit leader. The European Union itself has failed, sadly. It might have been able to succeed, but since austerity/debt colonizing it is very clearly a failed project.
« Last Edit: 08 Jan 2021, 14:28 by KyriakosCH »

Danvzare

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Re: Trumpmageddon
« Reply #535 on: 08 Jan 2021, 16:50 »
I don't want to be caught in the crossfire, but... can't we all just get along? :) I mean this is just a web forum.
Unfortunately, as long as someone misinterprets having a different opinion as an attack on their identity, it will always be impossible for us to get along.  (wrong)
And unfortunately that fight or flight response is built into us as humans. So we're destined to never get along... unless coincidentally we all like the same thing. Speaking of which, does anyone here like adventure games?  (laugh)

KyriakosCH

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Re: Trumpmageddon
« Reply #536 on: 08 Jan 2021, 16:58 »
Life is also an adventure game, without a save option and one where regardless of what you do, you lose.
Although some dream of becoming immortal gods  (nod)

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Re: Trumpmageddon
« Reply #537 on: 08 Jan 2021, 17:13 »
Speaking of which, does anyone here like adventure games?  (laugh)
Go back where you came from, verbcoin lover!

Errr...good luck everyone related to this bonkers situation. Most of my non-western friends seem fairly ambivalent and jokey about the situation, at least that's what social media sharing tells me.
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Re: Trumpmageddon
« Reply #538 on: 08 Jan 2021, 18:36 »
Yes, please tone it down, Khris, and focus on arguments not persons. We've been over that particular ground many times before, anyway.

(It's awkward for me to play a double role of mod and participant in discussions like this. We should get a dedicated mod for this forum.)
The polarization and name-calling in US politics are awful, but the worst part of it is how their bipartisan politics and the mentality of their "debates" keep bleeding over to discussions outside the US.

As a Swede and a History buff, I can't say I would be surprised if the USA ceased to be a superpower in this century, with the numbers of wars they've fought and foreign interventions they've kinda been burning the candle in both ends and there's been hardly any focus on sustainability or longevity. Few empires have lasted more than a couple of centuries, and those that did focused strongly on building a strong infrastructure and cohesive governmental body, whereas, as some rando on the internet said, USA isn't even a full country, it's 50 tiny countries in a trenchcoat.


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Re: Trumpmageddon
« Reply #539 on: 08 Jan 2021, 22:40 »
It's as ridiculous to draw an equivalence between BLM protesters and MAGA nutbars as it is to imply that Trump's populism meant that he had the support of the majority of Americans. He never did.
« Last Edit: 08 Jan 2021, 22:43 by Ali »