Messages

Stupot+:

Interesting game.  I have a few points I would recommend for future projects:
1. Create F1 key help

• by allowing F1 to bring up the help screen it utilizes the old F1=help association.  Even if you have the (?) in the game F1 should still work confirming that there is no other hidden functionality.
• the (?) might also be considered by some as just helpful game hints and not necessarily program functionality like SAVE, LOAD, QUIT etc.
• Since few people will read any help information having a concise F1 help screen with functionality will help people who are just looking for how to control the game and quit/save.
• Basic functionality is provided for how to utilize F1 in the stock game templates of AGS

2. Add a way to quit the game and/or add this to the help

• All programs need to have an exit button and the button should be simple to find.

3. A possible suggestion for puzzles like the "find the list"

Spoiler

I was able to find the list under the refrigerator. However I did not find this challenge fun.  After finding the magnet on the floor I figured that the list fell down, but did not associate that with the possibility that there was space under the refrigerator.  So only by randomly clicking the area near the magnet did I find out that I would need to some how get the list from under the refrigerator.  The current bottom of the refrigerator though drawn, does not stand out to me in the game.  Perhaps coloring it a darker color then the rest or even black would have benefitted the player.  I can see the freezer and main door fine, and even the spoon and sushi magnet.  But the base of the refrigerator didn't stand out.  So without this pronounced visual clue, the mind may not immediately make that association that there is space under your refrigerator. 

To demonstrate this I created a quick image with a single line drawn  Although it is not much it at least brings the eye to the bottom of the refrigerator and gives a visual guide where to click.



I believe if there is a pixel hunt, the area for the pixels should be well defined.  Manic Mansion Deluxe did a great job of this with the paint on the wall and hiding of the film.

Another feature of Lucas arts games is the use of text to tell you what the mouse is top of.  The text will change if you mouse over something that is relevant or different in the game.  Thereby allowing a pixel hunt to consist of a steady mouse hand and not a random click.  Since most people really don't pay that close attention or won't normally spend the time needed to find a small detail, the pixel hunt works well.  Having to randomly guess where on the screen to click the mouse can be irritating as there is no X,Y coordinate feedback that at least allows you to eliminate the pixels you have already clicked on.

There is a great example of how mouse over challenges can be done in the game Arden's Vale.

[close]

4. A save/load option

• Even though the game is very short the ability to save/load a game can allow one to jump to a point in the game.  This can be useful in debugging as well as allowing the player to have an "out" if they have to do something else. For instance if there was a bug in the chicken coop I would have had to replay the game to get back there to take screen shots or to trouble shoot it every time.

5. A way to skip over/replay the intro content (in the diner) 

• Animation and scripted scenes although interesting the first time through are usually less enjoyable the second or third time
• Even if how to skip the scripted sequence is only talked about on the help screen, having that option is still good as it doesn't force someone to have to wait through a script if they died and didn't save.

[Cast:]

Cast: Sid, Bernard, main guy
Time: after the chick gets taken to the zombie-matic and the doctor turns off the house power
Just finished: recording a gig with Sid and the green tentacle, sent the music off to get signed by the publisher and got the green tentacle to back me up.

Action to cause error:
    Door to dungeon is open as key was used to open it
    Sid had green tentacle protection (and was partial friends with Son Ed, gave package only)
    Sid enters basement and turns off power to house to get caught by purple tentacle
    Turns back on power before tentacle arrives
    Purple tentacle gets hostile and takes sid to dungeon
    fade to black
    crash before dungeon scene

Error:

Code: ags

An error has occurred. Please contact the game author for support, as 
this
is likely to be a scripting error and not a bug in AGS
(ACI version 2.61.747)

(Global script line 1006)
Error: MoveCharacter: character not in current room

So I updated the bum for cCris.  I still really don't know where to go with the shoes.  Since the animation works for now, I think I will stop at this point and continue adding other content to the Demo 3-1 game as I learn the different aspects of the editor.  Like walk maps etc so that at least you don't get stuck in the museum.

Any suggestions for source material on the shoes would still be helpful as I will be getting the animation bug again eventually and want to revisit. (I think I will focus on percival for the time being)



-Adventurer 007

[So a few questions:]

Arm movements:



So I tried to create an angle or small triangle between the chest and arms.  Raised the knee caps, altered the armor plating on the right shoulder as the left was the side usually in use for jousting, changed over the hip armor to more of what I was seeing how that should have looked, added more visor.

To speak on the elbow armor, it is rather odd. Instead of coming to a point in the inside it bulges into two circles above and below the crease. (see this image: http://medievalresearch.blogspot.com/2012/03/medieval-arms-armor.html#.VK-o2b6CWJU) I believe this was to provide more armor in that area.

So a few questions:
1. Does the arm area from the gauntlet to elbow look too bulky?
2. How is the angle of the arms? etc?
3. Do I still elongate the legs? and if so are we talking 10 pixels or more like 2.
3.a. And does the elongation happen universally, or above/below the knee caps?
4. With the knees I am guessing its the black part to move down to the middle, and perhaps make more vertical height on the caps?

Interestingly enough, as I build out the armor, because of the need for animation it feels like I am slowly getting each piece into its own layer...  Just like the actual armor would be separated.  So that I can rotate and reposition. 

Is it common for one to actually create a segmented "doll" type character to allow for animations, or do most artists just draw again the image they are keeping in their mind?

-Adventurer 007
(thanks for all the help btw)

So I tried my hand at skinning the dummy.

He is Percival the knight.  And if drawn well may be having adventurers soon
This is a first draft outline only.  I was thinking of getting that right first then going on to the detail.

-->


I was thinking the arms will have to come out as the armor shell (chest) is actually wider than that and it probably isn't possible in full armor to ever look like that.  But I would have to think about how to angle the arms around the chest.  Suggestions? (stop while I am ahead? lol)


-Adventurer 007

adventuress: 

    First off thank you for the time in making the tutorial!   It is still a bit complicated for me to understand the proportions.  Meaning if I started with a blank slate and was trying to create a character who was a little person or perhaps rotund for example I would still be at a loss.  I am guessing the mannequin presented would be representing a average male?  The best I can do now would be to use that drawing and get an idea where the shapes should occur to try and define things like the buttocks and knee bend.
   
I agree, I like the first one the best.  It was the one that I did at the start when I was fully rested.  The rest were a bit of a trial of patience for me as the night wore on.  The colors given are from the original sprites provided in the AGS Demo Game so the colors there are different it appears then the first image.  I know she needs work on the bum for quite a few of the images.  Was the first bum better than the rest?

With the shoes I am sort of at a loss as I have a hard time some times envisioning how a shoe would look with so few pixels available. I was trying to create a inverted U on the back to differentiate them from the forward looking image.

The other challenge I was thinking about was how the body contorts.  The mannequin only shows a standing position.  Would that be why I think I remember a human like doll being given out at art school to allow on to change the body and study how it contorts in different positions?  I mean would getting a wooden doll object be useful in modeling characters?  Or is it just something that is learned and people have gotten good at?

Background example?  Do you mean the image on an in game background?  Here is the forward and reverse on the Empty Street (room 10) of the demo game.



-Adventurer 007

I actually rather like the font.  It reminds me of some of the old buccaneer games like Sid Meiers Pirates.  But I suppose if you are having a game based on cartoonish characters it may be a bit out of place... don't know.  If there is an option to change the font to a basic font for the game (as an accessibility option) then you wouldn't have to worry about someone who has trouble reading it.  I guess it would be how you are trying to set the mood of the game. 

If you don't mind I ask, which font this is?  Is it something that is free?

-Adventurer 007

There were no animations for the walk up sequence in demo game so I decided to try my hand at some animation.  I took the forward facing images and reversed them.  I can program anything without a sweat, but artwork isn't my strong point.  These took about half a day for me to create and upload into the demo to make the Player Character actually walk up and down instead of just left and right.

What do y'all think?

http://oi58.tinypic.com/2lm29o0.jpg


I should also ask if there are people here who are looking for an art project to do?  As I can tackle any technical issue (given time) even recode the source libraries that AGS was built on, but when it comes to doing the art, it either takes me away to long, or it comes out well ... not really that great.  If I am going to build a game I would need to either have an artist work with me or pay to get artwork.  Any suggestions?

-Adventurer 007

Oddly I cannot reproduce the issue.  Setting to 8/16/32 bit or different resolutions of the screen doesn't affect the bmp and it saves fine with a fresh copy of the demo.  I have changed the settings and tried various things and changed them back but nothing I did would corrupt the images. Should I chock this one up as a bug?

Thank you for letting me know that I shouldn't be seeing odd graphics. I have refreshed my copy of the demo and will be using source control.

-Adventurer 007

So I cannot run the game engine in full screen via VMWARE. Not sure if this is due to a lack of drivers or if just doesn't work.  So I cannot test this feature.

[snip .. removed posted code..]
too early in the morning on that one. sorry.

-Adventurer 007

[Cross-Platform Support]

LostTrainDude:

   Just a quick thought, are you running full screen mode?

Cross-Platform Support
Windows: Full-screen only
MS-DOS: No
Linux: No
MacOS: No

Another thought try just setting the value to 200 to validate it can change:

Code: ags

if (System.SupportsGammaControl) {
  System.Gamma = 200;
}

humm if the graphics were changed to 16/32 bit and then back to 8 bit would that cause a loss of the information perhaps?  I did a check and they are actually not the negative just odd looking when exported.  So that would be a destructive attribute... I will refresh the VM re-install AGS and check again.  This time backing up the demo for a master copy.

-Adventurer 007

Is there a reason why the backgrounds exported from the demo quest seem to be negatives in the demo? 

When I load a BMP into the editor it shows up as the same BMP when I export it...  So are these backgrounds actually saved as negatives?  Is there an advantage in that? Or is there something that I am missing.

-Adventurer 007

[slasher:]

slasher:  First off let me apologize. It was not my intention to insult.  Re-reading the text I can see how is can be read that way.  I should have rewritten it to state if one were to add the violence to the game as a marketing ploy or just for the sake of it, time would be better spent working on other constructs or finding people to help add to the game.  I did not mean to say that you were without skill or otherwise.

I probably should have prefaced the entire post with a "this is my opinion" as well.

And I wish you well in your game.  Any undertaking is challenging.

=Adventurer 007

As I learn AGS I am going to be modifying the Demo Game.  Fixing any (all) bugs that exist with it and adding more content to learn how to use the tool.  The question I have is if development for the game is still underway or if there is an updated version somewhere besides 3-1?

As I have created tutorials in the past I was thinking to create some to allow the new user to learn how to use the engine and update the demo. (using the demo for source material for lesson plans etc.). 

Is any of this wanted?  Just my cup of coffee for the day.  

-Adventurer 007

Stupot+:  Well said Sir.  And thank you for welcoming me to the forum.  I assure you as a man of my profession, my needs are well provided for, and I need not interfere with established relations.

migel: To address my former comment on the 20 questions; If I have just finished off a 10 hour day reading an annual report, the last thing I want to do to unwind is to have to go through an exam to prove that I am old and capable of the use of intelligence.  It is a sad state of affairs when trolling spam bots and, well, the less enlightened force us to use such measure.  Unfortunately the motivation to "become" part of a group has to be there in and above being willing to share intellectual opinion on an open forum in order for that comment to be received.

.rhavin:  Welcome to AGS!  Its great to see the community continually gaining such talent.

["If it is healthy to dwell on these things constantly."]

Slasher:

The only real reason why there is a market for blood, gore, and violence is that these are more of the taboo things in our real society.  So there will be a natural interest in something that is not allowed. (sex, drugs, alcohol)

A question to ask is, "If it is healthy to dwell on these things constantly."  The answer there would be no.

The best made games, books and movies have little to none of this while still getting the reader/viewer emotionally involved.  Violence/etc is used only when deemed as a tool to bring a message across to the viewer.  Many good stories have a moral. Violence for the sake of it is simple a cheap trick to get people involved who are looking for that sort of thing.  The proverbial candy bar for the person who is trying to loose weight.  Just because someone wants it doesn't mean it is good for them, or that you are adding value to your game.  Some of the newer shows on paid network TV are just simply vulgar and have really cast aside any concept of well done story line or characters for more sex and violence on. This being based on the idea that they can get people to watch crappy shows as long as they put enough of that in.  Its the same as over salting food, or trying to change the taste of something by drowning it in butter or deep frying it.  You will still need a visit to the doctor if that is all you do.

So the fact is that it's being done so the question to ask here is, "Is it what you want to do?"  As games are a form of artistic expression who am I to prevent one from expressing themselves.  However as everyone is a critic, know that some expression is best left for personal enjoyment, or to use as a healing agent for the mind then discarded later.

The bigger question to ask is "why" you want to place it in the game.  If it is because you believe that you are not skilled enough to make a game that enough people would want to play then I recommend spending your time looking for a additional game developer for the project who has the skills you need to bring to the table a better game.  I am sure there are many here who have that skill.

Also violence can be added to a game without excess.  Such is done in many of the Nintendo games you see, players fight with guns but no blood occurs.  It is similar as one playing paintball.

If you are asking for an example of success of a game without violence,  Minecraft was said to gross 2.5 billion for its creators... I believe the most successful game of all time. And where is the violence in it? I believe the world has spoken to what it wants.


-Adventurer 007

If you look at the crack in the wall it breaks the game and crashes out the program. When you click on the small white pixels around the door frame.
Adding the following code to the room 14: Crack in the Wall, fixes this.

#sectionstart hotspot0_a
function hotspot0_a() {
  Display("You have found a bug in the demo.");
  Display("Congratulations!");
}
#sectionend hotspot0_a


Was this fixed? and just not worth updating the download? I didn't know where to put this post as there didn't seem a good place for it if this is already been discussed.

-Adventurer 007

Hello,

   Just wanted to say that the sign on for the forums was a bit rough.  For us older folk, perhaps a place to just directly call you or for you to call us and talk to validate we are human would be nice.  It is sad that we have come to the point where a 20 questions survey is needed.  In truth it will actually turn away a few folks my age because we don't have time for silly games.

   I have been working over game design for a long time and like what I see with the AGS engine.  I am not sure if I will be porting it from C# to base C so I can work on it without using proprietary tools or just building a quick adventure game.  But I am here none the less.  Long time fan of Sierra games and Kings Quest.  Liked what AGD did and wound up here because of that.

    As a side note. Is it just me? or does the default font on this forum editor seem a bit small?
(the safari browser 7.1 build 9537.85.10.17.1 seemed to display an odd font at first when I was writing this. After clicking on preview the interface changed a bit and everything is now as I would expect from a forum submit dialogue...)

-Adventurer 007