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"Hallmarks of a genre" is pretty much the definition of a trope. The word "trope" is not a negative term or an insult (although "cliche" may be).

You're right, tropes aren't negative. As a matter of fact, they're practically unavoidable.
Cliches on the other hand are overused and should be avoided.

The main difference between the two is that tropes can be used in many different ways, even when they're very specific, and people generally won't grow tired of them.
Cliches on the other hand are usually things that were great the first time, but became groan inducing pretty quickly soon after.

If you experience a trope (for example, Zombies) for the hundredth time, you probably won't mind it, you might even like it.
But when you experience a cliche for the hundredth time (for example, the protagonist is actually unknowingly working for the bad guys), you will undoubtedly roll your eyes because you've seen it happen too many times.

Well, this post kind of proves my point that the line between tropes and cliches is a rather blurry one. You list one example as a trope and the other one as a cliche, and presumably we are to react negatively to the latter and kind of neutral to the formal, but surely many people would argue that both are cliches, or both are tropes.

I wouldn't even say that "Zombies" is a trope - surely, 'trope' implies a story telling device rather than just a... noun?

The - ludicrously extensive - site tvtropes.org covers your example of a cliche and call it a trope:
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/NiceJobBreakingItHero

so yeah, let's not pretend these are clear-cut terms and labels!

I'm a bit wary of calling things tropes and cliches, since it's hard to draw the line between unoriginal genericness and hallmarks of a genre. Let me explain:

For a long time I found it a bit uncreative and generic how many games would start in a locked room, and have the protagonist (often amnesic) escape it. But then this got so common it turned into a genre of its own - escape the room games. It wouldn't make sense these days to play an escape-the-room-game and complain that escaping a room is a bit of a cliche, since that's what people expect and presumably enjoy when playing them.

Having a character who's amnesic isn't just lazy writing - it's a rather effective dramaturgic device that lets the player experience the game world on the exact same conditions as the protagonist - namely with no prior knowledge or experience. They'll explore and learn about the world together, which is quite cool. There can still be tons of lore to learn, it's just presented very gradually.

This isn't some kind of defense speech - TSP was about a cryptologist helping a stranger to understand a family mystery-turned-tragedy, which I'd like to think is quite original, even though the actual adventure probably plays like a detective story, but I'm just saying it's sometimes hard to define what's cliche or not, or whether they're automatically bad.

Half my set was about the fact that I can't smile properly. And, if nothing else, that photo proves it.

That's fine - you've spent your time leaning how to make others smile instead.


Ok that was way over the top.

Fun fact: When I met up with Chrille in Göteborg, 2001, that was the second ever IRL meeting between AGSers, the first being Layabout visiting DGMachphee at his work somewhere in Australia.

His face is like "I'm happy I won, but I also suddenly came to think of all the abandoned puppies in the world"

Excellent topic! Even though it tends to resurface every 2-3 years or so

I remember how beating PQ1 back in the day (this was 91-92 I believe) took me and my friends more than a year of more or less constant playing. Heck, I remember having played for a really long time before anything even remotely important gameplay-wise occured. We were happy enough walking around looking at things and getting replies when we typed stuff.

Needless to say, this was before the Internet, but Amiga had a monthly magazine that had a page with puzzle hints and tips, and if you were extremely lucky they'd eventually print a tip that actually helped you wherever you were currently stuck... that's how I finally solved the nightstick vs bikers episode, hehe....

I definitely think there's a market for games that aren't super easy to beat, probably as a counter movement to how many modern games tend to hold their players' hand and tutorial the living crap out of them, when in actuality lots of players appreciate games like Dark Souls where virtuality nothing is explained and they're expected to discover and learn the game on their own.

No offense to anyone making them right now. I've just always wondered why there's so many of them, especially considering adventure games can work just as well with almost any kind of story you can think of.

Do you really wonder that? I think it's quite obvious that the adventure game genre lends itself quite well to investigative mysteries; following chains of clues, gradually unravelling a case, etc, plus the whole thing Mandle mentioned, how you don't need a contrived reason to put the protagonist there in the first case, or motivate them to actually solve the whole thing.

Even in literature at large, detective stories are quite prevalent, because they're easy to construct and people like them.

That said, loads of adventure games aren't detective stories, at least not in the sense of featuring an actual, official detective.

But sure, I'd like to see more perfectly mundane games, where the protagonist is just an ordinary person doing everyday stuff, not even catching a bad guy let alone saving the world, but that might be hard to construct a functional gameplay around, I don't know.

HAHA I just worked it out... DUH...

"I" is singular
"Us" is plural!

Nice one, you evil maniac.

Nice, although technically 'I' corresponds to 'we', and 'us' in singular would be 'me'.

Yes, I'm fun at parties.

You can find a flash fiction story of mine in English, in the following ebook/magazine. Page 26

https://en.calameo.com/read/00473905971ac8ff20c7e

That was all right but it's no Bob Dylan!

Good gracious, now that's a proper piece of art.
If you don't end up making games, you could always start selling posters...

[Picture of Dorian Gray]

The last few novels I've read:
Picture of Dorian Gray, by Wilde, which, perhaps unsurprisingly, was great.
All the light we cannot see, by Anthony Doerr. I think this was on Snarky's recommendation, or at least initiative. It wasn't all that good, unfortunately. It was very elegantly written, certainly the kind of writing that wins awards, but ultimately didn't really go into depth on any specific thought or idea.
The Slave (Singer). Very good. I like everything I've ever read by Singer.
Not that kind of girl by Lena Dunham. I'm a bit split here, because Dunham writes really cleverly and funny, and is no doubt very talented, however this book - auto-biographical, by the way - is slightly too unfocused and has long passages that lack both purpose and structure. 

Off-topic:
Who else thinks it's cool that Roy Lazarovich is here after like 15 years of absence?

Love that bg, great details (like the paintings, which are often underdeveloped in background art), and excellent control of textures and perspective.

Joking aside, it's pretty fascinating how time flies. Can't believe 2006 was ten years ago.

It's funny that the community seemed much more active back then, but we have so many more quality games now, with commercial titles released on a regular basis.

Who are you?

New thread page, that means new screenshot, hooray

This is neither AGS nor is it an adventure game, so I'll put it in gen-gen for now and see if Snarky wants to take it elsewhere.

[Sure. I don't care. â€"Snarky]

This topic has been moved to General Discussion.

http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=54215.0

Telling a blind person they're heading for a gorge isn't an ad hominem.

That was masterful, Khris.

However, this thread is pretty close to becoming circular and kind of pointless. I'm not too fond of the entire premise of this thread, nor its title, and would prefer if specific topics could be treated in individual threads.

I endorse this appointment.

Also, all new local moderators must buy the global moderators a beer, that's a time honoured AGS tradition.

It's also funny that this "fake news" is so much more dangerous than the confirmed fake news peddled by the establishment, which has led so far to over 100,000 civilian deaths in just one of the countries unlawfully invaded and occupied (Iraq).

I don't think that counts as some kind of hushed up conspiracy; that was just the Bush administration being stubborn and really needing a reason to go to war.
It was widely known - at least outside of the USA - that Iraq didn't have WMDs, that they weren't linked to the 9/11, and that the invasion would be unjustified. Any serious news outlet at the time would have cited Hans Blix and his UN committee explaining exactly this; what you chose to listen to instead is another matter.