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What about making each month's MAGS bundle a pay-what-you-want, like a monthly bake sale, which is already organised and running?

Better keep MAGS free imo.
But as I said, some commercial games (steam keys) could be unlock when a certain amount is paid or stuffs like that (it would rise the value of the bundle so the sales).

To be true, I'm not afraid of money, we can do it.

The most difficult to set imo is the project:
- update what we have?
- rewrite everything that has to be rewritten?
- start from scratch?
- keep the AGS editor and make a new engine?
- AGS as a toolkit for Unity?
- Use SCUMMVM?
- Or whatever: I don't know enough about the tech side to know what makes sense or not, but we have people here who are able to do so, I would like to hear them.

[Sonneveld maybe?]

CW don't want to lead anymore.
Sonneveld maybe?

If you want to see contributors' activity, here is a link:
https://github.com/adventuregamestudio/ags/graphs/contributors

(Mind, it seems we have the same debat than in politics: do we need a leader first or a programme first...)

you first think, do you need food right now, and if yes then how much.

To me, it's a fact:
We "need food right now"/ a modern engine.
But I don't know exactly "how much" / what kind of new AGS.

Maybe you still have some in the fridge?

We have some, but I'll quote Snarky:

Lack of motivated, knowledgeable developers, organization and decisiveness

That's why I fear nothing will come in time, then it will be too late and AGS won't be attractive anymore.

Same with any project, first you decide on what you want to get, and then you find out what you need to get it: do you need to hire someone, etc.

Personally, before wondering what car I want to buy, I check if I can afford one.
So I check funds.
Then indeed, I can choose.

Whatever, I don't want to argue like this.

The work on AGS is huge.
It's even too much for a small team with "issues" mentioned by Snarky.
We need a fulltime dev.
Who can do that?
No one*.
Except if he is paid.

*(We all have bills to pay.)

Mate, please, laugh but do not cry.
I didn't mean to hurt.

What this consensus is about, and consensus between who and who exactly?

Well, I already read discussions here about what should be the future of AGS, I know that all people aren't agree on the "way", but they are all agree on the modernity point.
I'm not competent on the tech side, so I won't discuss it.
I know we can always find a consensus in everything.
That's why I made this post: to make people think/share/talk eachother.

You started this thread asking people to vote about hiring the "full time coder" without having a clear understanding what that magical coder will do... I wonder what all those people who voted were voting for?

Talk about the funding side is - imo - a way to approch the problem and it could simplify it a bit.

Whatever, we have to start somewhere, I "put my foot in it" so let's progress.

If people are agree with the crowdfunding point (not sure they are), let's jump on the project definition.

Indeed, it won't be easy to find a consensus.
But it's not because it's hard that we should not try.

Indeed (bis), I guess the dev team are the more relevant people to lead the project.
If there are several projects/ways we can vote.
With a clear statement for each project/way, anyone who want to vote should be able to vote.

We should not fear discussions nor votes imo.

we have talked about since at least 2012.

Indeed (ter). So, maybe now we are ready.

I mean, come on, even speaking on features, this is something that does not even need a mention IMO.
When I was suggesting a new engine, I assumed that it can do everything a decent contemporary engine should be able to do: run on multitude of common platforms - desktop or mobile - freely, run in any display resolution, support common control devices (keyboards, mouse, gamepads), etc; I just thought that is too obvious to mention in the informal thread like this.

Obvious indeed, but not for everyone.
We have to talk to the whole community.
If we want to ask money to people, the project has to be clear.
People has to know what they fund.
(But indeed, it could/should be in another thread)

I wouldn't want to enforce any one company's vision on it

That's not the idea at all.
The dev team and the community will decide what to do.

Btw, I guess the first step would be to create a list of what needs to be done (so we could figure out how much it would cost)

The tech side is opened to discussion (CW's idea and example are interesting. I guess some people have other points, let's discuss).

Whatever is decided, imo, it has to be collegiate and clear.

1) What do we all want? (features list)
2) How to do it, so the cost? (tech side)
3) Who for the job?
4) Raise money (Bake sale, Kickstarter, something else, whatever)

Could be a good way to plan stuffs maybe?

We (meaning Wadjet Eye) have offered money to folks in this community to work on updating AGS in the past. The answer has always been no. It's a hobby for most people here, and accepting money for it implies a commitment that not many are willing to make.

I can understand them and I respect them, but it's not about stealing money to a community. Imo, it won't be a shame at all to be paid for a hard fulltime job.

To really make it work, we'd probably need to hire a pro from outside the community entirely.

That was what I meant.
But ofc, if someone of the community want the job, better give it to him.

Someone to crack open the engine, see how it works, and then begin the arduous task of updating it. It's *not* easy, and could easily run into $50,000+ range if we wanted someone professional and fast.

For sure it's not easy.
50 000: I thought about less, but I guess you know better than me.

I was toying with moving to Unity last year, but after a few months of playing around with it I decided that I was trading one set of problems for another. So I'm sticking with AGS right now.

Same here.
But I can't stop loving AGS... ^^

But I'd be lying if I said that the lack of forward momentum on keeping it updated and modern doesn't worry me.

Again, same here.
And, I mean, it's not only about my games: I could just move my ass and switch to Unity (even if it bores me).
I fear AGS won't attract new people if we don't reach a kind of "modernity".
To me, it's not only a commercial games issue, if you know what I mean.

Here is a WIP mockup :

(Tweet is here)

Natural evolution: from C64 to Amiga

[30 votes]

So we have 30 votes.

Yes: 63% (19)
Depends: 23% (7)   
No: 13% (4)

Even if the result is clear, I guess it's not enough to be relevant.

Well, I keep my money. ^^

Let's hope we won't be - more or less - at the same point in one year.

7 Colors.

I guess you are right and that game is very interesting!
You can play it here:
http://playdosgamesonline.com/7-colors.html

Well done CW!
Your turn!

What about this?

I had this one on Amiga!
Logical (it's the game name hehe)

[19 votes]

Just to let you know, there are 19 votes for now.

Yes    : 74% (14)
Depends: 11% (2)
No     : 16% (3)

But it can't be considered as representative for the moment.
I guess we need around 100 votes.

That depends on what "identity" means. Is it bugs and technical limitation; or having authentic line of code circa year 2000 inside the engine?
I specifically pointed out that the idea is to keep using AGS Editor to create game data. This would mean that game creator will use same tools and design concepts. They will just be run in different enviroment.

hehe
Well, indeed, if we keep the editor / concepts, I personally don't really care about what is running behind.
Still, I guess it would ask a lot of time?
Do you have an engine/framework in mind?
Maybe we should open a new topic to discuss about it and keep this one for the funding side?

My opinion is to forget about updating old code and choose an existing modern engine/framework, which should be modified to emulate AGS behavior.
This could be easier and faster.
Not all of the features are critical, some AGS features are used very rarely and may be added only if really necessary.
You keep writing games in AGS Editor, if you like, but run them on better engine.

That's an interesting way indeed. But maybe with such solution, the risk to lose AGS "identity" is high?

Also, whatever the tech side of AGS future, I don't think it's incompatible with paying someone to do it.

I wanted to add (if some people wonder):
- I'm a coder (that's my job but I don't want at all to be hire for AGS)
- I tried many engines/frameworks (including Unity)
- I really love AGS above all since many years.
That's why I would like the best for AGS.

["Should the AGS community hire a paid full time coder?"]

I hope I won't sound insisting but I just wrote a topic titled "Should the AGS community hire a paid full time coder?":

http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=53196.0

I'll be glad to hear your opinion, discuss and find what is the best for our community.

[I just think the "hire a paid coder" question has to be asked.]

Yesterday, after this, I made a poll here:

http://goo.gl/s1MtKc

I don't want to bring revolution, discord or anything negative.
I just think the "hire a paid coder" question has to be asked.
It's not about not having trust in the current dev team, huge work has been done.
But so much hard work remains, it means so much time, issues, tough choices, hair pulling, etc. that imo it's not a shame to talk about money.
Also, if that coder work fulltime, it means it should take less time and time is against us imo.
So we could quickly turn AGS into a modern engine (so people don't need to switch to boring Unity or any other engine).

Of course, first, we should create a list of what needs to be done, so we can get an idea of a time frame and cost.
Then we could make, for example, a new AGS Bake Sale.

I guess it's better to sell games to people instead of just asking for money.
Btw, Mark and me could give some Dustbowl steam keys.
I know KodiakBehr would agree to too.
And I'm sure some other people who released commercial games could be too.
Some games could unlock when a certain amount is paid, etc.
Well, it's not the time to discuss how that Bake Sale would work: it's only to point that we can raise money without "begging" people.

I hope you'll see my post as something constructive and not a lese majesty.

I'm really glad to see that our theme inspired you guyz!
6 entries is a lot! And they look nice!
Be sure I'll try them all!
Thx you dear MAGSers