Messages

OK now we're getting some where -Mrs. Spock really looks the part!  Do you have her in profile?

Nobody likes being asked to provide feedback and then being told off because it wasn't what you wanted to hear.

Alright, I concede maybe I got a bit frustrated with all the "she's a freak!" comments when I was already pretty satisfied with her appearance.  I appreciate that many people have offered constructive advice and drawn some decent looking pixie faces to illustrate their ideas, however most have been pretty radical stylistic departures from what I'm doing.  Realistically I'm not going to ditch my entire art style, and will have to put down any abnormalities to the fact that the character isn't really human anyway.   I regret the confusion caused by stipulating certain characteristics be revealed in her appearance, but I wanted this to inform people in critiquing the character's clothing (which, much like the face, reveals a lot about character).  I do apologize if you felt you were being told off.  The situation is doubly regrettable, since if I was to be the cause of bad-feelings anyway I could have really let-loose and had more fun with it.   

oh, and to make it at least a bit helpful: Your latest heads don't look bad, but somehow aged. Of course if it's 30something pixie you're heading after, I'd say you're there.

It's the eyes, I think.  My character has to be around 150 pixels to fit comfortably in a 640x400 screen, making the head about 30 pixels max.  At that scale proportional eyes would read only as dots.  To give more expression the eyes have to be enlarged, but the only direction to do that in is up, otherwise the character looks dumb.  But higher eyes lengthen the face, which is a characteristic of older people.  Fortunately I think I can live with 30-something looks -it adds to the sense that the character is experienced and knows her business.

And it's all fine that you take a stand for what actual human females look like, except of course real women who break up espionage rings probably don't strut around in tiny bikinis looking whimsical.

Precisely!  I was against the bikini look from the start, but many posters thought she should show more skin, and so I duly experimented.  I think more professional garb is in order, but the real trick would be to preserve a bit of the whimsy that one associates with pixies.  I agree this is a lot to ask (indeed, were it easy there's every chance I'd have found a solution without critical support), but what I'm looking for is almost a marriage between the professional (business/military, dark colours, clean cut) and the fanciful (gawdy/experimental, intense colour, more revealing).

I would recommend looking at some clips from the various pixie outfit designs in the Tinkerbell Disney movies.  There's a good range of colorful clothing styles for each character to set them apart and also make their particular 'talent' recognizable:

Yeah, I've looked into the Disney stuff.  I like how there is a lot of source material from many different angles, but it all falls way to far on the fanciful end of the clothing spectrum.  Who would take "Agent Tinkerbell" seriously in that green sparkly number, let alone some of the frillier outfits.  Back to the drawing board, I guess....

I want to preface this post with my thanks for all the constructive feedback.  Although I may take issue with certain aesthetic stances expressed in this thread, I appreciate that all of you have taken time out of your busy days to try to help me out.  Having said that....

If she is supposed to be whimsical and cutesy then you have a problem but if she is a little more brash then its not so much of an issue.

I would not say that cutesy and whimsical are necessarily in the same basket, but I think you hit the nail on the head that in graphical adventures we (rightly or wrongly) judge character based on appearance.  So my agent has to be tough, and she has to be proud, so she's going to carry her head high, whereas the more demure feminine ideal is to kind of look downward.

Maybe my former paint-over was a bit too realistic or something, so I made this very quick and rough sketch to illustrate the typical exaggerated "cute" ratio used in cartoons:
[imgzoom]http://www.esseb.com/andail/cartoonpixie.png[/imgzoom]
This one isn't anatomically correct - it's basically a big ball with eyes on - but it conveys positive things like friendliness and a childlike cuteness, often found in pixies, I'd guess.

OK, so she's got cutesy proportions.  But she looks kind of shy and sullen to be breaking up intermagestical espionage rings.  As Cailin said, she's got to look the part.

There's been some question (and confusion) about combining proper anatomy with a pleasing visual aesthetic so I made a little tutorial to help you and others out.  I'll go through and explain each of the steps in detail and you're encouraged to follow along.  The idea is that, while anatomy is important, you can and sometimes must take liberties at times when dealing with very small images to get a visually pleasing result.

OK, I get this.  And theoretically it is a very well proportioned face, although somewhat old and masculine looking for my purposes.  Love what the shading does to bring out the features, btw, but I can't be spending that kind of time on individual frames if I'm going to finish this project in my lifetime.  So stylistically I'm sticking to the line art (it works well with vectors anyway).

The only reason the signals are mixed is because the head is so anatomically deviant it's hard to name the parts properly. When it comes to crux of the matter - that your pixie looks neanderthalish - I think the signals are pretty clear.

So... I'm really having a hard time with the "anatomically deviant" label, especially given that this sketch was offered as an improvement.

[imgzoom]http://www.esseb.com/andail/cartoonpixie.png[/imgzoom]

Why must the attractive female have a bulbous forehead and ridiculously oversized eyes?  Why must their infantile faces be squished into the bottom-most quadrant of their heads?  Why must they look downward, or at least tilt their heads down demurely?  And why the small mouth, no-jaw aesthetic?  These features may be considered to be beautiful by some, but the characteristics they evoke are insecurity, vulnerability and weakness.  Some men may find this attractive in women, but this character needs to be stronger than that. 

Sorry, but she does look sort of deformed. When you look at the average head in profile, the foremost point of the forehead is roughly vertically aligned with the chin.

But what if she is holding her head up proudly, like a soldier.  Here is a simplified version of my process with some random feminine profiles procured from the internet for the purposes of demonstration.  Models were selected on the basis of a) having a full-profile picture and b) holding their heads up proudly.  It so happens that I think all three are reasonably attractive human females, but we are all entitled to our opinions.



What I have done is trace my model's face and main features in a simplistic fashion: eyes are just circles with a brow line and a white dash highlight.  The ear must be oversized to make it obvious that she is a pixie, and the eyes need to expanded or they will only read as dots at my game's resolution.  Expanding the eyes downward makes the nose appear to be too high and making the characters look dumb, so my only option is upwards.  This is a 200% zoom.



I must then play with the features a bit, due to the way that vectors are compressed.  An eye can easily bleed into a forehead, etc. so features must be separated sufficiently so as not to look awkward at 100%.  Here is the result:



In conclusion, I don't think the "anatomically deviant" label can really stand up to evidence.  This is in fact how human females do look, admittedly with crazy hairstyles and certain feature accentuations required by my game characterizations and resolution.  I think this style suits the "feel" of my game, and makes my characters appear both human enough to be beautiful but also exotic enough to be believable as a magical species.  I think comments like Daniel Thomas's are fair and constructive, as such feedback can improve the art without compromising the style.  But I take issue with the relentless assault on my drawing style and aesthetic beauty of my pixie.  I challenge anyone who thinks I'm that far off the mark to make their own pixie-game.  With blackjack.  And hookers.  On second thought, forget about the blackjack....

I just wanted to point out that, due to my screen resolution, the title of this thread as it appears in the main forum index is always displayed as "Guess the Movie Tit...".  This is always a great source of amusement to me, despite the fact that whenever I actually click on the thread I have yet to see any follow through from the contributors....

Your character has... virtually no forehead.

The hair band thing doesn't help with the forehead looking long

See, I'm getting mixed messages here.  For some the forehead is non-existent, for others it is too long....  What would Lincoln do?  I am aware that a great variety of feminine foreheads exist IRL, most of which are perfectly functional and at least moderately attractive (in so far as a feature noted for its space more than its substance can be assessed in terms of beauty).  I admit that the hairband look does push the hair back unnaturally, but I was going for a retro 1960s look that was still business like enough to be taken seriously.  Finally, my model has [roughly] these facial proportions and seems to get by in everyday life....  The practical (not to mention the politic) thing to do would be to keep her on, just in case I need to draw the head from different angles or with different expressions, etc.

To be honest I think the only problem is the back of the yaw....

What's a yaw?  Nevermind, I like what you did there.  Good eye!

As for the wings, you are all perfectly insightful art critics.  I had planned a bit of transparency, but some sort of pattern would really make them complete.  Back in a bit with some redraws....

Well, here's some ideas implemented:



Sorry, I wasn't able to implement Frito Master's idea: too many prying eyes.  Also I'm not really sold on the face re-do, but thanks for the suggestion.

As for garments, the original one had both the earth tones one would expect of a being close to nature and the military feel of some banana republic, but it lacks a degree of exotic sophistication one would expect of a spy.  I think the white makes her look a little too pale, and she'd stand out too much in white to be a secret agent (even in the context of the exotically garbed magical creatures she is blending in with).  I like the texture the sparkles give, but man I don't think I could animate that level of detail with any degree of realism.  The bikinis are a little too sporty for a secret agent.  So I've experimented with going dark, but the first reads as a little drab and the last one looks like a little black dress for a dance bar.  So.... basically I'm not satisfied yet.  Anyone else have any good ideas?

It's olympics time again, and I was fantasizing about being a sexy track star through the medium of QWOP when I discovered a new game by the same developer (Bennett Foddy) -CLOP.  Now you too can make unicorn pretzels instead of working on your game!  I got hung up on some ledge stuck horn down in the ground (I regret not taking a screen shot).  Can you save the princess?

Does she need to have a profile or can her face be in like 3/4 pose (I mean just the face, not the body), I always find that a a 3/4 view looks better than a side profile, just has more dimension and details.

Sorry, I should have mentioned that I intend an 8 loop walkcycle.  So there will be quarter turns, but I want to finalize the design before I draw them, so that I can avoid redrawing them if at all possible.

Also, hmm the agent thing kind of throws a curve ball, but my first thought was "Needs more skin", pixies usually wear little to no clothes, so I'd go for a black bikini or a really tight little black dress. Or maybe add a comment in the game that they usually wear like leaf bikinis and then call the character a perv for thinking that.
In which ever case, add a bit of "dazzle" to the wings, maybe some swirll lines and a few sparkling dots, that'll contrast the simplicity if the dress is just pure black, liek a woman might wear jewels with a simple dress...and I'm over analyzing pixies now. 

I'm getting simple garment with a bit of "dazzle"..... I'll give it a shot.

As is the face needs a bit more ratio adjustment, her hair goes a bit too far back on the fore head and the whole eyes+nose+lips should move a bit down and the back of her jaw should be a more rounded, just to make her look more feminine: It's up to you though, I know you have your own style (and I like it), but if it's just a suggestion.

Your character has relatively small eyes, a distinctively protruding chin and virtually no forehead.
Here's a quick sketch-over to suggest how you can make her face more proportionally harmonic:
[imgzoom]http://www.esseb.com/andail/graphics/pixiepaintover.png[/imgzoom]

I've got a neanderthal-foreheaded, beady-eyed lady-friend who will have a whole lot less self-esteem if she ever reads this thread.....   

She needs a magic wand with a star on top. And also sparkling

Wands are like weapons, so they're only drawn as a last resort 

Any more suggestions on the clothing?

Nice looking WIP, Ponch.  You really lucked out on the theme this month.  Wait....

[Ï€]

So I've started building this game around a pixie character. So far she's looked like this:

But I've found myself in need of a) a good idea of her final size for room layouts and b) in need of reassurance that the character will look compelling and believable.

So recently I've been trying to design her final form.  A lot rides on this: players will be staring at this character for the whole game, and her look and feel will be the primary factor in whether or not players find the world believable.  She is a secret agent with Pixie Intelligence, an organization usually just referred to as Ï€.  So she's got to look clever, and she's got to look tough.  But she's also a pixie, so she needs some unnatural beauty and a whimsical feel.  This is what I've got so far (I just added the back arm and leg for show, the rest will be her side standing posture):


I'm of course interested in any ideas and improvements, although I'm mostly satisfied with the drawing style and appearance.  What's really bugging me is her outfit -it just doesn't feel "right" yet.  It has to be relatively tight and revealing (it's like a pixie dress-code thing), and it has to be pretty simple for animation purposes, but outside of that I'm keen on some fresh ideas.  Here's a blank template if you find it easier to use for paintovers:



Many thanks in advance for your input!

Well then!  Welcome to Baron's Industrial Workshop of Animation & Soft Icecream -satisfaction guaranteed, or your pixels back!

Post how much you would charge for a front-facing animation only. If I think you're ok for the job, I'll hire you to do it.

I won't charge you anything for the first animation because a) maybe it's not what you're looking for and b) it's not like you can just take one animation and run.  I'll do it as an artistic study and a free sample.  If you like it then we will have to negotiate a cost based on the time I will spend, which itself will depend on the number of frames you want (more frames are smoother but will take more time....).  At that time I'd expect to see some real money to prove that you're actually willing to pay.

If my boss likes the front facing animation, we will pay for 7 more, and you'll probably do the rest of the animation.

Suddenly this project just got a whole lot bigger than a walk-cycle....

The only thing I'd like is that i could review a single-frame sketch of the character (can be black and white even) before you start making the whole animation.

OK.  So your sample is not what the character is supposed to look like?  This again adds a bit to the process.  Do you want the character to look similar, but with a few tweaks?  Or a radical redesign?  And will we be using the style of background in your sample, or is that just holder-art?  If I'm going to design the character from scratch I will need at least a basic character bio -who is she?  How old?  What does she do?  What's her attitude?  And what about stylistic guidelines for the character art?  Other characters in your sample background have different proportions, shading, and less-cartoony features, to say nothing of their non-vector design.   Feel free to PM me if these details are "sensitive", but I'll need more info before I can proceed.

Is that an in-game background?  A vector sprite with fine-black outlines doesn't really match the rest of the style....  Anyway, the front walk-cycle really doesn't look that bad to my eye, but the other directions are very mechanical.  Also the posture seems unhealthy.

The requirements are:
1) fluid movement, preferably with every frame hand made (without tweens and automation etc)
2) good detail
3) preferably it should be done in flash

I've done work that way, although not to that degree of "realism".  With broader strokes and quite a bit of stylization for effect: Princess Porphyra and Jack from Snakes of Avalon .  My greatest asset for the position, however, is my wife, who is about the same build as your character.  If I were to do this animation I'd probably have her model the different angled walkcycles wearing similar garb and then (mostly) trace over in Flash for realistic movement.

Hmmmmm....  The download still works for me.  It must have been a server blip (As the company tells me, 99% uptime isn't 100%).

 

Do a MAGS game with somebody.  If it's not just you there'll be more pressure to release it at the deadline, warts and all.  You know what da Vinci said: Art is never finished, only abandoned. 

[West Texas]

Between your new psychic abilities and Frito's thinly veiled death threats, we're afraid to leave the house!

What, thinly veiled death threats are keeping you holed up in the closet?  You purport to live in West Texas, man!  No Country For Old Men country.  You boys are supposed to eat six death threats for breakfast, and then wash it down with half a pint of straight Famous Dave's Devil Spit BBQ Sauce ^TM.  Start wearing some pants and man up, will ya?  And for pity's sake start pumping out those musky yet savoury aromas again!  I've got blue nostrils out here....

Goodness, why won't someone have a birthday already so we can get this thread back on track and Kim and I can go back to our lives! 

I think you can consider this thread officially hijacked.  Throw your wallets and cellphones into the bag and listen carefully to all instructions from the crazy looking guy with the monocle, or there WILL be consequences.  Messy, and perhaps slightly malodorous consequences.  Am I understood?

You keep this up, Baron, and I'm not breaking into your house in the middle of the night to spoon anymore. 

Is that an offer or a threat?  And how come I didn't smell BBQ tonight?!?  What's the Mrs. cooking at?  You can't make friends with salad, man.

It's freaky, is what it is! Seriously, I'm a little freaked out right now!

What if there's a monocled man lurking outside our window, sniffing our aromas? 

That's right.  Creepy Street runs both ways, man.  Beware the Bemonocled Window Sniffer of the Night!  It's 1 o'clock; do you know where your garbage is?

[Famous Dave's Rich & Sassy BBQ Sauce tm]

Who forced you to fill in a date or mark the map? 

If you really don't feel comfortable, you can simply leave it empty.

In my mind it was like a red-herring left on my trail for my many stalkers to find, one in a series of mis-clues subtly designed to lead them in ever tightening inward spirals until they eventually bonked heads somewhere in the crazy mushroom lady's back lot.  To leave my personal information blank would invite inquiry, but providing plausible alternatives would throw the hounds off the scent until it was too late (cue coconut sound for head bonking).  Maybe I wasn't even born in May.  Maybe I wasn't even born at all.  Maybe this is all just an elaborate ruse designed to confuse and obfuscate any trace of my IRL existence....

So I suspect you to have fun in lying instead of the “excuse” you told us.

You don't understand what it's like!  You're minding your own business and then suddenly there's this faint whiff of Famous Dave's Rich & Sassy BBQ Sauce ^tm and then even more suddenly there's Ponch breathing heavily over your shoulder, trying to spoon and asking you to read more quickly so he can turn the page.  I can't live like that any more!  The price of freedom is eternal anonymity.  You don't know me, man!  Back off.  Just.... just... back off, man!  Just be cool, and everything will be alright.

Thanks Ponch, Tabata -I really appreciate that.  Except... I kind of lied on my AGS profile for the sake of privacy.  Like all good-hearted people I was actually born in May (*gasp!*).  ....And since we're coming clean here, I've also misrepresented my location on the AGS map and my willingness to do AGS tutoring.  And I'd do it again, see.  With impunity -IMPUNITY!  Buwahahahahahahahahah!!1!!!

What was this thread aboot again?

Let ME try to summarize:

    1) Breathy dude attempts to enunciate a passion for stick men and Star Wars next garnaration.  I assume this to be a type-0 and what was actually meant was garneration (from garner, to gather -thus, the gathering).  He appears to be thinking about maybe developing a stick-man Star Wars reunion, and is soliciting opinions thereon.

    2) Other breathy dude clearly articulates the same passions (it's almost like phone sex if you listen to the tracks over each other).

    3) Several dudes then misrepresent their geographical location.  A certain supporter of Ron Paul clearly can't hack it as a Texan, and a certain military man does not live in Canada but in some secret undersea base (or possibly a yellow submarine) at 0^o latitude and 0^o longitude along with the majority of AGSers.

    4) A short debate ensues about perfectly acceptable weather not being perfect, and then the breathy Canadian clearly, clearly said

You're still hot

to the mock-Texan.

    5) A heroic, if somewhat drunken effort is made to summarize the proceedings thus far.

    6) The thread continues to spread in every direction, with absolutely no sense of closure or progress.  Will the Stick Wars reunion dig up old grievances and petty rivalries?  Will the mock-Texan rehydrate before developing some sort of sweat-induced bum rash?  Will the breathy Canadian learn proper elocution and pronunciation?  Will this rambling post finally kill a topic that doesn't really seem to have a point?  Will nobody buy my incomplete 1989 Upper Deck baseball card collection on e-Bay??  Find out next time as the posts..... just keep coming.