Messages

Raggit, I think you've misrepresented a lot of the issues here in your initial post. I think also we're discussing some very seperate issues here in relation to the video you posted. Somehow they've all been mixed together and confused.

First of all, the video posted was a news segment regarding the incident, not an actual video showing the kid held down while teabagged and banana-raped. And it's like you're asking if we should ban the video you posted for fear of encouraging more stupid kids doing the same thing. Okay, but then you've got to ban the original news program the video was from. It doesn't make sense to ban it. There's no reason to. It doesn't encourage kids to go out and teabag.

What's my opinion of the clip? It's from a news program. It doesn't show what actually happened to the kid. It only discusses it.

But, Raggit, you've brought another issue brought into this debate; where users are submitting their own content on the internet of crazy stunts. This is NOT the same thing as the video you posted.

Let's not confuse the two issues. Raggit, the clip you provided is NOT an example of an extreme video that you want us to discuss. It's from a news program. It's not a user-created video of the kid getting teabagged and having a banana put in his rear. Somehow you've linked the video you've posted to user-created explotive video content. They're two different things.

Let's examine this further:

1. The clip you posted is from a legitimate news program and presented by a website that steals content from other people and adds captions like "CLASSIC: Kids life ruined by being tea bagged." (although Mr Bauman labels the video with a "not cool" tag, which shows his perception -- I don't think it's fair in this instance to say eBaum is presenting the video in a mocking manner, Raggit. ). In this instance, you can't ban a video like that. There's nothing that warrants such a banning. It's a clip from a news show. It's legitimately presented.

Is it exploitive? Partially. All news programs (and TV/video in general) are exploitive to some degree. But I'm sure they had permission from the kid and parents to film, otherwise they wouldn't be interviewing them all. This backs up the video's legitimacy.

2. The scenario that you suggest, Raggit -- where websites do present videos in a mocking manner -- isn't a cause to ban the video, nor is it a cause to ban the way the video is presented. Sadly, this is one of the facets of freedom of speech. Unless the video is implictly encouraging such acts against people (say a more extreme example where the KKK has made a video with the implict purpose of encouraging more people to beat up black people), then you can't ban the way they present such a video, even if in mocking. If a site said "BANANA UR FRIENDS' ASSES TODAY" and meant it in a serious manner, then yes, that's inciting rape. But that would be a cause for banning not so much the material but the commentary. But the comment has to have malicious intent. (at least, according to Australian Law, it does)

But I just want to make clear: even if they're only mocking the kid, they're still arseholes for getting off on other people's exploitation.

3. Now let's consider an actual video where the kid is getting teabagged and banana-raped. Yes, that is exploitive and absolutely abhorrent in my view. And if I know my media law correctly, it's also illegal to publish such a video without authorisation from the people involved (unless it's in the public interest to do so, which such a video isn't). The reason is because it unfair exploits someone who is pretty much innocent and undeserving of such actions. This includes everything from the tame, like someone publishing a audio file of a secret conversation where someone else discusses their favourite sexual position, to more extreme examples, like publishing a film of your friends raping someone else.

Here's the grey area: The rape is a crime. Video recording it isn't a crime. Publishing it on the internet is a crime. (Just to note, video-taping it is stupid since it can be introduced as evidence in a court trial for the actual rape).

But in such a case, yes, ban those types of videos on the internet. And I think most content-sharing websites like YouTube have policies on such things and do take steps to delete such content for violating such policies.

4. As for video content of kids doing stupid things, like stupid stunts, to themselves, I say there should be more of them. Anyone dumb enough to do a stupid stunt they see in a video on the internet deserves what they get. If they kill themselves in a stupid skateboarding stunt, good, they're idiots, the world has become lighter. Sucddenly the worldwide IQ has gone up because we lost a moron trying to skate down a hundred stairs. Just Darwinism at work.

I've sepearted what's being discussed here and tried to make things clearer about what we're actually discussing here. That was my main intent with this post. I think it is wrong to misrepresent the video in Raggit's initial post. This is a more complex issue than people are making out.

The video that Timosity talks about -- that's an example of point 3 from my diatribe above. That's the kind of content that should NOT be published. And there are already laws against such non-consentual exploitative media. Like I said, it's an abhorrent exploitation of people.

There are other issues that could be involed too, like defamation laws, but I think this post is long enough. Like I said, this is a very complex issue that I think has been twisted around and confused a little. Let's aim for some clarity.

Although I agree with Chrille about the second to last panel, I think the comic is very much finding its legs now. The third comic is an improvement x 10 over the first two. Good work!

What about your camel riding expedition?

Dammit, didn't you hear what Tuomas said! The advice I gave was filled with lies. Now when she consults a medical textbook on male reproductive organs, she'll think you're a liar. And then she won't know what the fuck to believe about your camel riding exploits.

Tell her you lost your penis in a camel riding expedition and therefore feel no attraction for anyone anymore.

While we wait here... DG, it's not all in the penis, one can still feel attraction to someone without it. After all, the hormons come from the part I'm too lazy to look the English word for.

I'm glad you pointed this out to me because my advice to Raggit was super-duper deadly serious (especially the camel riding expedition part) and now he won't take such dodgy advice because it's proven to be false by you. Whew!

Yes, where are the compliments, guys? I mean, apart from all the bits where everyone has said "wow, linus, that is visually stunning!" and "wow, vampires! good idea!" -- if we ignore all those bits, yeah, where are the fucking compliments??

And yeah, I know this isn't the Critics Lounge and 2ma2 wasn't asking for feedback, but what else do you expect when you post something like that here? For people to just go, "Wow, a comic. Good luck with that." and leave it at that?

Besides, I don't think anyone here has said "ur comic sux, stop drawing dood" -- In fact, just the opposite, we've all encouraged Linus to continue with it, regardless of what constructive criticism we offer. Like I said, it's got a lot of potential.

I was talking about Lucius at the end of the strip. Not Abel stalking the "prey".

I can only assume Lucius wanted to have some sex with the inflatable doll. Unless he was just saying "hello there" to it and NOTHING ELSE.

A lot of jokes are made about Morgan Freeman narrating movies. But forget about that... Best way I can describe something beautiful is that scene that Morgan Freeman narrates in Shawshank Redemption where the prisoners are drinking beer after tarring the roof.

And that's how it came to pass that on the second-to-last day of the job, the convict crew that tarred the plate factory roof in the spring of forty-nine wound up sitting in a row at ten o'clock in the morning drinking icy cold, Bohemia-style beer, courtesy of the hardest screw that ever walked a turn at Shawshank State Prison. The collosal prick even managed to sound magnanimous.

We sat and drank with the sun on our shoulders and felt like free men. Hell, we could have been tarring the roof of one of our own houses. We were the lords of all creation. As for Andy - he spent that break hunkered in the shade, a strange little smile on his face, watching us drink his beer.

You could argue he'd done it to curry favor with the guards. Or, maybe make a few friends among us cons. Me, I think he did it just to feel normal again.

If only for a short while.

DG: I kinda like the heavy dialogue within webcomics. The strip medium often demands to cut down on text and deliver punchlines like clockwork. The webcomic medium however can work with changes in lenght and tempo, handing out new storytelling possebilities. I don't think I will cut down on dialogue, I aim for the pseudointellectual approach rather than visually appealing storytelling. But we'll see...

I'm not too sure how jokes about vampires fucking blow-up dolls and "Wild Horse Skullfucking" constitute pseudointellectual. Then again, I don't read much Anne Rice.

But I'm not sure if it's just the strip medium that demands it as such, but I think humour in general works better when it's tight. And if you go for a longer set-up, the pay-off has to be bigger.

Here's a great example of a comic from SexyLosers (NSFW) with a long set-up and a great pay-off.

Manic, ildu, DG and Helm: The curseword is there to stand out. Lucius ain't the character to use such language, it is there to emphasize how much he doesn't want Abel to move up from the basement. It is far from Victorian language, deliberatly so.

But the problem is we don't know these characters well enough to understand why Lucius is so against Abel moving from the basement that he'd resort to such potty talk. It just seems like the sort of phrase used to setup a joke you read in 99% of webcomics. The kind of joke where one character answers another character in a mean way causing the other to reply, "You could have just said 'No'."

I prefer comics with surprising endings/punchlines that knock the shit out of my guts. I like surprises. I like my expectations confounded.

But it is your comic. So best to go with what makes you feel comfortable. Regardless of what I say, it has a lot of potential and is impressively drawn.

I think the problem with swearing is it only works is it suits the character. If the character is an aggressive arsehole, yep, he's should swear. If it's a cute kitten with big saucer-shaped eyes, yep, the kitten should swear. (as a joke in extreme opposite to the character type).

But Lucius doesn't seem like the kinda character who'd swear. He seems too classy for that.

Visually, it's stunning. I'm always impressed when you draw, 2ma2.

The premise is also a good one. Get The Odd Couple and make them vampires. Simple and full of potential.

The gags need a little work though. One of my pet peeves with many webcomics is there tends to be too much talk when telling jokes.

Case in point: remove Garfield's text and the comic gets funnier.

Try less dialogue between characters. Expose more of the story and jokes with the pictures and action. And ninja-kick your jokes.

I think a good example of a well-drawn comic that has many good gags is Perry Bible Fellowship. Not much dialogue, only enough to let you know what's going on. The jokes lie not within the text but the action. It's more effective, I think.

Here are a few examples:

Food Fight
Chew Boy
Mittens
No One is Thirsty
Mimes
Freaking Vortex

What I like most is how the joke gets exposed. Each panel builds on the previous until the big "Ah-ha!" when you piece it together.

Your comic is a different style, obviously, but I think a good way to go about it to use less dialogue and more action in the pictures. The first half of the first comic does this quite well, actually. Each scene builds and builds, tension rising and then it's at the point where he's about to bite the victim... THEN... the light gets turned on and you see the "victim"!

But after that, it kinda fizzles to a second joke about Lucious being a pervert, but there's not much to build up to it. I'd have the second half as a new comic.

Regardless of my advice, I think your comic has some great potential to be one of the funniest, most well-drawn webcomics around the internet.

Tell her you lost your penis in a camel riding expedition and therefore feel no attraction for anyone anymore.

I also like the phrase "instant girlfriend". Sounds like something you put in the microwave for 30 seconds. DING! INSTANT GIRLFRIEND!

by this time she's convinced that we're soulmates and that we're destined to be together.  Okay, I'm not that sure at this point.  After discussing this with a close friend of mine who's been through this kind of situation before, he says to end it immediately before it gets too far.

I can see why you're not sure about things at that point. I mean, it doesn't sound like you both know each other well (only a couple of weeks, right?) and already she's decided you're her soulmate. It doesn't make sense. It'd be like you going up to someone you've only known for a few weeks and saying, "I want to spend the rest of my life with you." You can't know that much about a person in only a couple of weeks to make that kind of judgement (though some people do and it works out beautifully, but on the whole it doesn't). You can be attracted to them, sure, but I think it's a total misjudgement to liken such an attraction to "This person is my soulmate."

It's obvious why she's with her current abusive boyfriend. She sounds like the sort of person who'll jump into things without REALLY getting to know someone on any level. Not a lot of good foundation in her current relationship and not a lot in what the two of you currently have either. I tend to think of relationships as something you build emotionally over time and it sounds like she's the sort of person who'll skip all that and go straight to the end part where it's all lovey-dovey. But doing so is nonsense.

I think you are right to not want anything other than maybe a platonic relationship with this girl.

However, I do think honesty is key here. And LGM pretty much nailed it. You have to be direct and honest with her about this. And it sounds like you want to be honest cause you said, "I don't want either one of us to get the wrong idea again."

I can understand why you didn't want to answer the doorbell when she showed up. But I think it's avoiding the issue. You really do need to be direct in how you feel and your next meeting with her is a good opportunity to do so. Obviously, you don't want to be harsh because she's had a pretty heavy background and you don't want to compound that, but what you do want to do is help her relate to how you're feeling about the whole thing, which sounds to me that you're uncomfortable about it.

Tell her exactly that. Tell her that you're feeling uncomfortable about the whole soulmate thing. Tell her you both can be friends and you'll be supportive when she needs a friend (keyword: friend), but you don't see things developing any further than that. And pursuing it makes you feel uncomfortable too.

I like how helm has a bug up his ass but you seriously can't take jokes i.e. Progz's post.

But I did take his joke, and I retaliated to ProgZ in non-serious manner. If I took his comments seriously, I'd say "What?? How fucking dare you say that about my penis! You have wronged me, sir, and I challenge you to a duel! etc etc" If you actually think my response was because he wounded my ego by talking about my penis and I took it to heart, then please dunk your head in a barrel of water until you realise "hey i'm a goof whoops!".

It's just some barb-trading. Get over it.

And in actual fact, I appreciated he at least made a joke, even though it was a little hamfisted. But at least he wasn't serious, unlike you for example.

But hey, check out SSH's response to me if you want a good joke at my expense. And my response to him was a sign of praise. Way better than a penis joke.

Just don't apologize to him in the thread you insulted him in! That might mean you'd have to lighten up and not take things so seriously which... is exactly what you're accusing people in this original thread of doing! Oh my!

Another one of Colossal's "hey you're doing what you're accusing others of doing" Only flaw in your argument is I'm not taking this thread seriously. Try and find some actual hypocrisy for a change instead using of your super-duper ninja debate tactics.

Oh my, indeed, you ass!

If you'll look back, by the time you entered this thread all the hooplah was over.

Great. But I wasn't joining on that hooplah. I was commented about the hooplah. And I thought the hooplah was pretty dumb because it was over NOTHING. Thought it needed to be said.

I look forward to your attack.

You're looking forward to my attack? What is this? High school? Are we to meet at the flag pole after lunch and duke it out to see who gets to take Judy out to Good-Time Burger tonight? Are you freaking kidding me?

I actually have this picture in my mind of you with your dukes raised to the computer screen going, "I'm ready for you DG! Just try something, man! It is soooo ON, motherfucker!" Also, in the same mental image, you're wearing Napoleon's hat. Do you own such a hat? Or do I just have a vivid imagination?

Now quote my post all over and make fun of me.

No, I'm not going to make fun of you. I agree... it's all bad stand-up comedy. Cause let's face it I do all of my stand-up comedy work on the AGS forums. Like I formulate all of my jokes here and come here with the express purpose of devising clever punchlines and delivering razor sharp wit all over the place. In fact, AGS forums are the very bane of my stand-up comedy existence. And it nice to get comedy feedback from people like you. I will strive to be more funny in more threads that contain pointless over-reactions about discrimination and sexism. I'm so stoopid, stoopid, stoopid. And here I was ready to send my sitcom idea about a man who marries a llama to a television network and enjoy the high-life that all sitcom writers enjoy.

No, forget about making fun of you, Helm. I'll be serious: who are you trying to kid? If your reaction for me saying, "This conversation: full of retardedness!" is "Hey you're not funny!", then you've just proven my point. That's a bullshit argument to my point, thus fuelling the retarded nature of this thread.

I mean, seriously, you think I'M other-enthusiastic? Have you read some of the reactions in this thread to Queen Kara's original post? How it's DISCRIMINATION AGAINST MEN? How it's SEXISM? You expect me to debate on an even level to that? Are you fucking kidding me?

My point is proven. You, along with many others, take things WAY too seriously. It's my whole reason for posting in this thread -- Queen Kara posts something about an all-girls AGS team, and suddenly everyone gets super-serious about the social implication and discrimination and blah blah blah.

Now, I'm going to do something special. I am going to forgo the $14.58 cheque and instead provide you with a can of insect spray...



Use it to kill the bug up your ass.

(ha ha did you see waht i did thar, helm? see, the line above was the punchline thus ending the joke! does my comedy appease you now, oh great lord of the jokes?)

Now, quit the whole "Stop mocking people or else I will get the impulse to attack! Rar rar you fail at being funny and at life! Bullshit attitude and blah blah blah!" If you've really got an impulse to attack or have any problem that's specifically got to do with me, then PM me about it and we can discuss it in private.

And on a related note, I find it very sanctimonious of you to criticise me about my "bullshit attitude" and "being an asshole on the internet" in regards to respect for my peers. I remember many times you've struck down others with your "bullshit attitude". Like a few years ago when you went apeshit at Yufster, starting a thread to verbally smack her down. And although you were acting like an asshole to her, I still defended you on it because I thought you had a valid enough point regardless of your attitude. And Yufster was pretty cool about your whole rant against her too.

[after]

DG, for somebody who thinks this is really unneccesary, you have the two longest posts on this page alone.

And you'll notice I haven't commented once of whether there should be an all-girl AGS team. Mainly because stuff like that doesn't worry me. But my original post was about how it surprises me that some AGSers seem to get their panties in a twist over things that are pretty minor. Like this thread. So I haven't really commented about the actual topic. Why? Because I think it doesn't really need much discussion. If I were to comment, I'd say: "All-girls AGS team? Fuck it, let 'em do whatever they want." But I didn't really need to write that mainly because things like that shouldn't need to be said. People should be able to do whatever the hell the want in terms of starting up teams. I just don't understand why there was so much criticism and debate over the issue. Hence, my question, why are people even bothering?

As for my two longest threads on "this page", meh, keep in mind I haven't said anything until page 4. And keep in mind I hardly post on AGS much anymore. And keep in mind I still think the topic is a big waste of time.

Stop stealing DG's soapbox, Eric.  You know he's only 3 feet tall without it- and that's after standing on his penis! :>

hey guys did you know apparently i am short and have a small penis

oh dear i feel inadequate and less of a man because of my short stature and tiny penis so i had better buy that penis pump i have been wanting since christmas

good work ProgZmax you called me out using a joke that hardly makes much sense but is somehow trying to attack my manhood merely because i am saying "hey you guys are arguing about something stupid and you are a bunch of stupids"

BRAVO BRAVO YOU WIN THE DIPSHIT AWARD FOR 2006 AND THE CROWD GOES WILD

That comment has made this whole thread worthwhile. Seriously.

haha yes good one Colossal trying to find tiny scrap of hypocrisy in my post -- a scrap which isn't really much of a hypocrisy. it's the ol "hey why are you complaining about the complainers when you're complaining!" They should write that one into the "Handbook of Internet Debate Cliches". And by the same token I could accuse you of offering an opinion on my opinion despite that you're condemning me for offering an opinion on people offering opinions. Wow, you're a hypocrite too!

So, cut the crap. And just read me correctly:

People can offer opinions. Just make them about something worthwhile.

By the way, how does someone "yell" at people through a text-based medium? If dictionary.com isn't lying to me, yelling requires an increase in volume. And I'm pretty sure if you turn the volume knob on your speakers to full throttle, it won't really make much of a difference to my previous post. Perhaps you're automatically assuming aggression on my behalf, when really what I feel is disappointment over a bunch of people who do have potential for intelligent conversation but are wasting their time debating something that they don't really need make a big deal about.

Yet another thread that has somehow reached four pages that makes me say, "Big deal!" I mean, really, why is it whenever someone on AGS starts a thread that seems just the slightest bit edgy... PEOPLE GO NUTS!

AN ALL FEMALE-TEAM OF AGSERS?!? HOLY CRAP FEMINISIM SEXISM DISCRIMINATION RAH RAH BULLSHIT!

I mean, really, why are people even debating this? Shouldn't you all be watering your gardens/feeding your fish/downloading gigs of hardcore pornography/whatever instead of discussing whether or not there should/shouldn't be a need for an all-girls AGS team? Seriously, this one is a no-brainer.

I guess, some people have this idea that their opinion matters in this instance. They're going, "Goddammit, I'm gonna get on a soapbox about this!" But really, what does it matter? What's going to change in the end?

Sweet FA.

I mean, why can't some people read threads and think, "Hey this doesn't really affect me in any way! I don't really need to post about this because the issue isn't really that important!" I mean for godsakes, what happened in these people's lives that they feel this dire need to express every single thought on issues that don't even concern them?

And if you seriously feel this thread is some bastion of pro-feminism or rebelious anti-discrimination of men, then you need to go down to the local life store and get yourself a life. I will also personally send you a cheque for $14.58 to contribute to the purchase of a life. I believe in doing my duty to make sure people are not wasting their time on stupid things they mistake as important, such as giving their opinion on things that don't warrant an opinion.

. I really wish there was a way to show people on the net that you're being sarcastic without saying so. Anyone who saw Steve on Discovery will know that he treated his animals better than most people. I loved watching him when I was little. I guess I'lll use sarcasm tags from now on.

Yeah, without the tags you suck donkey balls at being sarcastic.

And no, that's not me being ironically sarcastic. You truly are an insult to people who actually know what sarcasm is and how to actually use it. Please, please, please, please for the sake of all that is holy don't ever try to be sarcastic again.