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The thing is that some people have been told they're not allow to provide unlicensed anime, as per my example of Sony with Ruroni Kenshin in 1999. But on the whole, most fansub distributors have been making use of "administrative silence".

Yes, but they've got links to other LucasArts/LucasFilm games to download (Loom, for example). We've been over this already. I don't see why you want to bring this up again.

Oh, you are absolutely adorable!! Have a Larry: 

[distribution of copyrighted material without the express consent of the owner is theft.]

Jet, I can't believe you're so lazy that you're asking me to check this out for you. You should check this out yourself.

First of all: http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/archives/news/old/012099B.php

And this was before any licensing.

So, pwnd, bitch!

Next, the article I posted before does cite legal references from international law. These references are coming directly from the laws themselves, so why would you need references from textbooks when you've got references to the laws themselves? If you had bothered to read the article properly, you'd see that.

For example, it cites the Berne Convention. Article 2 of the Berme Convention sets out the definition of a protected work, such as "cinematographic works to which are assimilated works expressed by a process analogous to cinematography" -- which is what anime is. Article 3 sets out the criteria, and I've read nothing that does not discount anime in that section. Article 5 sets out the rights, which include: "Authors shall enjoy... the rights which their respective laws do now or may hereafter grant to their nationals, as well as the rights specially granted by this Convention." As far as I'm aware, all anime is protected by Japanese law (the country of origin). What applies to Japan in regards to anime, applies to other countries according to the Berne Convention.

Here is the actual text of the Berne Convention:
http://www.wipo.int/treaties/en/ip/berne/trtdocs_wo001.html

Here's a cut down version of the Berne Convention that focuses on specific parts we are discussing (useful for you, since I now how lazy you are not to go out and check this yourself):
http://www.wipo.int/enforcement/en/faq/international/faq01.html
http://www.wipo.int/enforcement/en/faq/international/faq02.html

Even though there are no specific court cases involving anime, that doesn't make it legal to download unlicensed anime. (Besides, I've still provided an example where a company has ask fansubbed to stop distribution. And why did the fansubbers stop? Because it is illegal and Sony was within their rights to threaten them with legal action). I mean, would you assume if hypothetically there were no civil cases involving copyright infringment restricted to just your country that it would be legel to infringe copyright despite the legislation put in place by your government? You see, just because there is no common law (i.e. law interpreted by judges, such as prior court cases), there's still statute law (i.e. law made by governments). To ask me to only cite court cases disregards an entire body of law, which is really stupid. I could just as well ask you provide an example of a court case where anime producers sued an anime distribution site and lost. There aren't any, just the same as there aren't any cases where producers have gone forth, sued, and won. But I can still quote statute law (as well as the link to the Sony legal threat). Thus, I don't need to strictly provide any common law basis when I can also quote statute law.

Let me put it another way: let's say I wrote an article and published it in a magazine in my home country, Australia. A German writer imports the Australian magazine with my article published and reads my article. He likes it so much that he decides to put his name on the article and sell it to a German magazine. They publish it. Now, are they allowed to publish it? No fucking way! It's my article! It was stolen! Can I prove it? You bet. The article was stolen word for word and mine was published before his was. Can I sue even though it was published in another country? Damn right! The Berne Convention affords me that right, even if I can't find another case as a pretext.

Here's the crunch: though, I can't cite a international copyright case involving anime (even though I don't need to, due to the statute laws and my example of a legal threat), I can cite cases where extraterritorial litigation has happened. For example, there's a famous defamation case called Gutnick vs Dow Jones. Dow Jones published an online article that made reference to Australian businesman Joseph Gutnick. The crux of the case revolved around whether the case could be brought to Australia from the US. The Australian High Court ruled that plaitiffs are allowed to sue for internet defamation irrespective of location. On November 15, 2004, Dow Jones settled the case and paid Gutnick $440,000 in fees and damages. While this example has nothing to do with copyright, it does show that extraterritorial litigation can happen. If Japanese anime producers wanted to sue online distributors, they'd be within their rights to do so under Japanese law. They haven't so far, but it doesn't mean they can't -- the means just hasn't been tested (Like I said, I'd like to see you provide an example of a court case where anime producers sued an anime distribution site and lost). But this shows that, while Japanese producers haven't sued, you can still do something illegal even if you're in another country. We're living in a world where boundries are being erroded on a daily basis. I can still do something in my country and get sued by someone else in another country.

Now, so far, I've quoted:
1) a case where a Japanese company asked fansubber to stop distributing an unlisensed anime title.
2) statue law
3) an example of internation law in action.

So far, you don't have anything that proves me wrong. All you have done is raised some criticism on the validity of the article I linked here, but you haven't given anything from a legitimate legal source that states, "Yes, downloading anime is legal." Where's your legal pretext? I've provided mine, so why don't you provide yours, instead of copying and pasting from only one mystical, unlinked FAQ that could have come from anywhere and then proceeding to call me lazy? Then again, I'd expect this from someone who can't understand the subtrext of Lord of the Flies and mistakes it for Lord of the Rings instead.


Some extra notes

Here's a quote from ADV producer David Williams: "I think it [fansubbing] can both hurt and help the industry. It can help the industry in some ways because it can help build awareness of the titles. It can also hurt the industry. I have a classic example that I've used quite often. We had a show that was fansubbed very heavily for the first part of the show but the last part wasn't. When that show was released in stores, the sales on the first part of that show were really low and the sales on the part that was not fansubbed, were really high. That's backwards from the way a normal sale works out. It normally starts out really high and then gets lower on the later volumes. So there's an example of where we can see that a lot of people that have seen the fansubs didn't buy the first part of it but they went out and bought the last part of it because it hasn't been fansubbed."

Here's another article on "unlicensed anime" being illegal: http://www.animenation.net/news/askjohn.php?id=954
I especially like the line that says, "In light of my limited knowledge of international copyright law, and my own common sense, it seems absolutely logical, rational and appropriate that the distribution of unlicensed anime is illegal. Anime is copyrighted in Japan, if not in North America also, and any distribution of copyrighted material without the express consent of the owner is theft."

Someone (though with no legal background) typed this handy FAQ of anime legality and ethics: http://members.tripod.com/~AvatarHR/legalfaq.html See Q2.22


I hope I have settled this matter once and for all, everyone. Now answer my question: Does anyone like Toyko Godfathers?

But if you want free h@rdcore fux-pix of lezbians, just PM me.

Some guy who owns a website called uphorses.com and whose photographs happen to come up on google. OH DEAR ITS NOT ME I SPOILT TEH MAGIC!!

I deleted Layabout's post, because he was being a complete dickhead, as he so often does on these forums. I've done it before and I'll probably have to do it again.

And you'd get away with it if it weren't for these meddling kids:

Again, I'm going to totally disagree with you by saying gay marriages should NOT be legalized.

As a Christian, marriage, in my eyes, is defined as the holy sanctity of two individuals of the opposite sex. Not only is homosexuality a complete perversion of God's intention of human sexuality, but when they want to get married, they might as well piss on the bible and flip the bird to the heavens.

But that's just me. See it as incensitive, repulican, or just stupid. I don't care. Again, repeating myself, I'm not a gay-hater or homophobe in the slightest. Just because I don't believe in it doesn't mean it's real and I shouldn't accept that as a fact of life.

Oh well. Do whatever makes you happy, as long as it doesn't fuck anyone else over. (I guess you could call me a Utilitarianist, in that respect o_0)

We was just having fun.  OMG DOANT BE SO BAKA!!1 :'(

Alright, I'll put it back on track...

Anyone seen Tokyo Godfathers? That was a great anime. A very wonderful story. If it was choice among Three Men and a Baby, Ice Age, and Tokyo Godfathers, I'd choose Tokyo Godfathers. It challenges the notion of parenting better than the previous two.

In the spirit of this thread, I award your kitty the highest honour:

Ah, you know I can't get mad at you, you adorable Spaniard you!

...I also spot a few titles on the list that are sold internationally, like Yu-Gi-Oh! and Sailor Moon. It's illegal. Deal with it.

Talking about "LAZY BUGGER!!!" who dont "READ THE DAMN LINK"

Quote from animesuki

....Please note that this is the first series of Yu-Gi-Oh!, which has never been licensed. 4Kids has announced not license and air this first series on TV, presumably due to the content (which is supposedly a bit violent)...

...The first two seasons (Sailor Moon and Sailor Moon R) are no longer licensed according to ADV's website.
Seasons three and four (Sailor Moon S and SuperS) have been licensed by Geneon Entertainment.
The fifth season (Sailor Stars) has not yet been licensed. Considering the transgendered nature of its new characters, it probably never will be....

Well, since you didn't actually link to that blurb in your signature (Was it from the FAQ or something else? I don't know. You don't even say.) how can you expect me to read it before you accuse me of being a lazy bugger? It's like a teacher telling you to study page 45 of a textbook and then giving a test for page 76. I mean, I don't go reading through an entire site just because I want to prove a minor point in an argument. Your the one pimping the site, so why don't you provide adequate links?

And even then, the blurb you posted doesn't render my main argument invalid, which is:

DOWNLOADING THE ANIME ON YOUR LIST IS STILL ILLEGAL

And you've said nothing that proves me incorrect. So think about that before you accuse me of being a lazy bugger. In fact, you're the lazy bugger cause:

a) You didn't even bother to post a link along with the blurb you wrote and you automatically assume I'm supposed to know everything about that site despite the fact that you're the one linking to it in the first place.
b) More importantly, you automatically assume downloading anime is legal without actually checking things out. At least I checked things out. You did squat!

In conclusion, you're an even lazier bugger than Farlander. And with Farlander I was joking. With you, I'm serious.

READ THE DAMN LINK ANYWAY, YOU LAZY BUGGER!!!

No offense guys, but this is some of the worst advice I've ever heard.

KANDY, you've already heard what I've had to say on the matter. Just do whatever you think is right, after all it's your choice. Don't let these bozos condemn you for making your own decisions, whether they be right or wrong. And if any problems come up, I know you can find a way overcome them.

I tend to think (unless a movie adaptation strays too far from the original source) that the books and movies are just part of the same canon, with neither better than the other.

For example, one of my favourite book/movie(/TV show) combos is MASH. I don't think any are significantly better than the others. I enjoy all three in various ways. Thus, I regard them as part of the same canon.

Meanwhile, for I, Robot, I thought the film strayed a little too far from the original source. (Who am I kidding? Too far? More like booted out of the fucking field!) Therefore, I don't really consider the I, Robot movie as part of the Asimov canon.

It's a common misconception that downloading anime that hasn't been released in your country is legal. It's still illegal, but with some loopholes. To back up Esseb's comment, I urge you to read this:

http://www.auphanonline.com/articles/view.php?article_id=1423

So Esseb is right.

EDIT: And aside from the loopholed anime, I also spot a few titles on the list that are sold internationally, like Yu-Gi-Oh! and Sailor Moon. It's illegal. Deal with it.

The film takes many many liberties, but you can see it as simply a different take on a concept. They're very thematically different, but I like both of them. Unlike most films based on Dick, which take the concept and end up becoming sub par action films.

As was the case with Asimov this year.
I can still hear his corpse going, "Stop raping me! Stop raping me!"

It's strange but I see a lot of debate on book-to-film adaptations, but how come I haven't read much on film-to-book adaptations? And also books based on films and TV shows but with new plots? For example, have a look at how many Star Trek and Star Wars novels there are. Sure, I haven't read any, but there's sqillions of them.

The only film-to-book adaptations I've read are Super Mario Brothers and Beethoven's 2nd. I didn't think much of the Super Mario Bros film, so I didn't have much hope for the book. I did think the Beethoven's 2nd book was better than the movie because it was able to tell you what all the dogs were thinking. It's hard to convey what people (and in this case, animals) are thinking in a film, which is why you have to manifest the subtext symbolically into a physical object. With books, you can just state what the characters are thinking. And this actually improved my understanding of Beethoven. On screen, he was just a big, slobbery St Bernard -- they didn't even bother to capture his thoughts. In the book, I felt he was a lonely soul searching for a mate. And that why I think the book captured his portrait better than the film did.

There's a simple idea everyone should follow: If you don't like the way moderators do their job, then go away. Start your own AGS forum if you want.

CJ pays for this forum and assigns people to moderate the forums. They're doing their job with the full support of CJ. If you don't like it, you can raise your objections directly with the moderators or CJ. But don't expect them to reverse their decisions if something violates one of the rules. If you don't like the rules, like I said go ahead and make your own forum. But this is CJ's forum and he (and, by extention, the mods) should be able to run it any way he wants to.

So stop being crybabies if your posts get deleted.

I prefer the gay Spiderman in this: http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/elvis.php

Bump!

Guess which country will be the next battlefield in the War on Terror?

http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/?050124fa_fact

Reports also indicate they eat babies and have sex with your mothers.

Other news stories:
http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=7348599
http://www.cbc.ca/story/world/national/2005/01/17/hersh-iran050117.html
http://here-now.org/shows/2005/01/20050117_1.asp
http://www.geo.tv/main_files/world.aspx?id=60370
http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200501/s1283747.htm
http://www.arabnews.com/?page=7&section=0&article=57711&d=18&m=1&y=2005