Messages

Throw pillows. Useless junk that make it impossible to actually use a bed or sofa for its intended purpose. The best you can do is just move them off whenever the furniture is in use, either taking up storage space somewhere or making a pile on a chair, or dropped on the floor (tracking dirt back into the bed/sofa when they're put back). They are the coronavirus of home decoration. If I see that someone has a bunch of throw pillows in their house, it instantly makes me think less of them.

They do have two uses though.
The first and most important, is as a tray. They're perfect for putting that hot plate onto, instead of straight onto your lap, while you watch that film on TV.
The second is that they give you something to lay your head on when you go to lay down. Whether it's because you're feeling tired or ill, you can easily prop your head up without having to go get a pillow from elsewhere.

So at most, I think a home should have two, maybe three throw pillows. And only on the sofa.
If you insist on putting them on a bed though, or owning loads of them, I recommend rethinking your life choices. 

I blame the fans, who endured a decade years of mostly horrible point and click games in the 2000s, and cleave to the mechanics of the 90s "classics" rather than the things that actually made them enjoyable. I recently made a similar observation to your point about tank controls - no one would say that Doom Eternal wasn't really an FPS because it uses analogue sticks. But adventure game devotees are ready to insist that Firewatch, Life is Strange, Dear Esther and Telltale games DO NOT count as adventure games because they lack an incredibly outdated 1990s interface. It's particularly absurd, because it's not like interfaces have ever been consistent across adventure games.

I kinda completely agree with you. 
But something that comes to mind, is that to most people Point and Click Adventure games are like pixel art.
Yes, there's a better way to do it now, thanks to the improvement of technology. But there's something about that style that stuck with us.
You can get a 3D model, apply some filters, and make it look like pixel art. But it won't actually be proper pixel art. And to me, Adventure games are kinda like that.

That all being said, the interface has almost nothing to do with it. It's the content. The reason why I don't consider Telltale's games to be Adventure games (at least, not the same type as DotT), is because of a lack of the gameplay loop that old-school adventure games have. Their early games, from Sam and Max to Back to the Future, had that gameplay loop. Every game from The Walking Dead and onwards, has a different gameplay loop, that more closely resembles a visual novel.

And as for the conversation of genres as a whole. They evolve, split, get renamed, merge, ect.
People complain about Roguelikes and Metroidvanias being named after games, while being unaware that Adventure games are also named after a game... it's called Adventure. 
And then people start to forget what the genres mean, with many Roguelites now being called Roguelikes, and what was called Roguelikes now being called Mystery Dungeon games.
Then of course there's the games that come out that didn't gain their genre until much later. LSD Dream Emulator is clearly a Walking Simulator, and Alone in the Dark is clearly a Survival Horror, but they weren't referred to as such back then, and I still haven't seen anyone refer to LSD Dream Emulator as a Walking Simulator.
Genres are constantly shifting. We've simply carved out a chunk and named it Point and Click Adventure Games, and are now holding onto it for dear life.

This looks really great! The plot synopsis is right up my street, and the artwork is all lovely! Unfortunately I don't speak Spanish so I won't be able to play it, but I will keep my eyes peeled in case an English translation pops up.

Same here.

Jeez. Sorry to hear about your colleague, Snarky. But glad your friends pulled through.

I don’t know anyone who has definitely had it but I know a few acquaintances who think or suspect they have had it, to varying degrees of severity, but without having been tested they’re not sure.

In the UK if you have flu like symptoms you may have Covid-19 (so we are informed).

Really? From what I've heard in the news, they've been attributing every single symptom that's ever been reported in the history on of humanity, as being a symptom of Covid-19.
The most recent one was, and I kid you not... a rash.

I mean, I guess it might be possible. But it's equally possible that my computer could suddenly overheat and catch on fire. But it's so unlikely, it's not even worth mentioning. 

As far as I am aware, the graphics that come with the template were included so that people could actually practice and make a game...

...and so probably aren't licensed for redistribution. I wonder if the developers consider the Artistic License to apply to the template graphics. My understanding is that source code licenses don't automatically apply to the graphics, but I could be wrong about that.

I am 100% sure that the people who made the graphics for the templates won't mind you releasing a MAGS game with them in, so long as credit for using the template is given somewhere.

Ha ha! That cat one is brilliant! 
I'm pretty sure a cat would split like that if it could. As a matter of fact, I'm not entirely convinced that they can't.

Using the newer AGS engines to keep the older games functional is nice, but I've only ever ran into compatibility issues with AGS games that are so old that the new AGS engine no longer supports it. Besides, I'd just find an alternative way to get the game running. There's plenty of ways. Dosbox and virtual machines spring to mind.

But of course there's the brilliant fact that the newer editors, still support importing your old games. Allowing you to update your game and continue working on it. This is brilliant if you're taking a long time, took a huge break, or just want to update an old game you made. But to what extent should that be supported? How many versions back do we really need to be able to import our old projects and expect them to still work?

My vote is for making games. Although a little bit of backwards compatibility will always be appreciated.

As for the legacy AGS engine, I'd say to wrap it around some ScummVM-like UI to help people that use it to run older games to have a tool just for that.

It'd be nice if ScummVM implemented support for old AGS games. It'd fit in better than Might and Magic. (A game series I adore by the way, but they're hardly point and click adventure games.)

Wait, there's a new English Maniac Mansion Mania episode! 
Awesome! 

When it comes down to DRM, if you want something effective, you need to completely disregard the consumer.
One way I could envision doing this is a key that's somehow generated from the computer's name or something along those lines. But another way that I think would be more effective, is to require people to be logged into that portal to run the game. That way it would be connected to the account. Then all you have to do is kick out anyone who logs into the same account on more than two machines at the same time.

Have you ever heard the high pitched squealing of an old tube television?
Just make it twenty times louder and have it rapidly turn on and off.

How could these not violate noise laws? That's crazy. I hope I never live around anyone with such little consideration for others.

Easy. The majority of people don't hear it, so it doesn't violate any noise laws.

Exactly, plus that's gotta violate age-based discrimination laws.

I hope so. But I'm not sure if there are any such laws in my country. 
Then again, I'm no lawyer.

Here's something that grinds my gears.
Very high-pitched devices, used for scaring away cats or sometimes used in shops to "detract" youths.
Because I can hear those things, and they're nauseating!

What do they sound like?

Have you ever heard the high pitched squealing of an old tube television?
Just make it twenty times louder and have it rapidly turn on and off.

There's already an award for best free game. And commercial games tend to receive the majority of the rewards anyway.
Are you saying to divide all awards between free and commercial games to make it more fair?

Here's something that grinds my gears.
Very high-pitched devices, used for scaring away cats or sometimes used in shops to "detract" youths.
Because I can hear those things, and they're nauseating!

Uncharted Collection and Journey are free on PSN right now.
So if you have a PS4 and don't have those games, now is a good time to get them. 

^Is it the PS1 iteration of Clocktower?

Yep, Clock Tower Ghost Head to be exact. (Or Clock Tower 2 if you want the localized name.)
Your turn. 

Yay I got it. 

Ok then, let's see how quickly someone can figure this one out.
[imgzoom]https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gameclassification.com%2Ffiles%2Fgames%2FClock-Tower-Ghost-Head.jpg&f=1&nofb=1[/imgzoom]

Hey, I know that character! That's Roland!
I recognize him as the mascot of Roland Radio. 
And according to that site he's from... either Roland in Space or Roland in Time.
Considering the screenshot, I'm going to guess that it's Roland in Time.

You've listed problems with each interaction system, but that doesn't mean there aren't situations where each of them are appropriate

I think you've perfectly summarized everything there.
Barring our preferences (I hate the Seirra interface and you hate the Verb coin, we don't need to justify why, we just hate them), you need to choose the best interaction system for the game you want to make, and utilize it to it's fullest. While keeping in mind it's weaknesses and how to overcome them.

Also, unrelated rant.

Spoiler

Yes, I meant Tales of Monkey Island. It's the fifth game isn't it? Therefore it's Monkey Island 5. If I say Monkey Island 3, you know I'm talking about Curse of Monkey Island, right?
Also, I don't care what their excuse is, the Wii has nothing to do with that click-and-drag control scheme. There's a perfectly usable nunchuk with an analog stick on the Wii.

It's the 5th game, but it isn't "Monkey Island 5", the same way Telltale's Sam & Max games aren't "Sam and Max 2" (and 3 and 4...), or Telltale's Borderlands game isn't called Borderlands 3. And I'm not sure what you mean that the Wii had nothing to do with it. Obviously the control scheme wasn't the same on the Wii, the drag system was TellTales' conversion of the system from the Wii to the PC.

Look, if Kingdom Hearts Chain of Memories was the last Kingdom Hearts game to ever be made, and the whole franchise had been cancelled after that. I would call it Kingdom Hearts 2, simply because the story continues from where the previous game left off, and the gameplay isn't too dissimilar. Telltale's Borderlands has completely different gameplay to the rest of the series, so it's clearly distinguished as a spinoff. The Telltale Sam and Max games make no reference to the other Sam and Max game, distinguishing it as more of a reboot than a sequel. Meanwhile, Tales of Monkey Island has gameplay that's exactly like the previous games and also makes it clear that it's a sequel to those games. The only reason I can think of why you wouldn't call it Monkey Island 5, is because the developers said so. But I'm a firm believer of "the death of the author" so screw what they say. Show me an actual Monkey Island 5 (one which is actually named that, or completely ignores everything that happens in Tales of), and I'll stop calling Tales of Monkey Island that.

Also if the control scheme on the Wii wasn't the same, and the drag system was from the conversion, then that literally proves my point that the Wii had nothing to do with the click-and-drag system. Since they could've very easily just put in a normal point and click during the conversion.
I was under the assumption that both versions had the same system, and that you were arguing that they were too lazy to change it. In which case, I was trying to point out that there was no reason to have a click-and-drag system for the Wii. But you've just said that the Wii didn't have the click-and-drag system, meaning they weren't too lazy to change it, as they actually did change it. Which means, they came up with that click-and-drag system because... I don't know... they wanted to try something new and stupid I guess.
In either case, you can't blame the Wii for that click-and-drag system.

[close]

[Rusty Lake]

Just out of curiosity, what do y'all first-person-adventure-game haters here think about the Rusty Lake and Deep Sleep series?

I've never played Rusty Lake, but I thought Deep Sleep was pretty great.

I don't know what Monkey Island 5 is, but if you meant Tales of Monkey Island, yeah, the  first episode was designed with the Wii in mind or something, so it had very weird controls.

Yes, I meant Tales of Monkey Island. It's the fifth game isn't it? Therefore it's Monkey Island 5. If I say Monkey Island 3, you know I'm talking about Curse of Monkey Island, right?
Also, I don't care what their excuse is, the Wii has nothing to do with that click-and-drag control scheme. There's a perfectly usable nunchuk with an analog stick on the Wii.

(My biggest "this crap is overused and overrated and it should disappear forever" pet peeve is in fact the 2-button "left-look/right-interact" interface, but let's not open that can of worms here )

I want
you
to,
please contribute 
(personally I hate the verbcoin way more)
And I haven't heard of any of those games, sorry! I can't actually think of a "traditional" (puzzles, combining stuff, talking to people, inventory items, etc.) adventure game in first person, but there are lots of first person games with heavy adventure elements.

The problem is, what's the alternative?
The single click interface is bad because it simplifies interactions too much, allowing brute-force-click-on-everything gameplay.
The two click interface is bad because no one ever presses the right mouse button, therefore being exactly like the single click interface, but without the character giving context to anything.
Half of adventure game creators (like you) hate the verbcoin for seemingly no good reason. (And I've heard the arguments, none of them are compelling.)
No one ever talks about the Sierra interface (and personally, I don't like it).
The 9-verb interface has been declared "old" and "outdated".
No one in their right mind would use a text parser.
Apparently direct control is considered too "action adventure".
And no one seems willing to come up with an entirely new and original way of playing adventure games.

Everyone is always willing to complain about the interfaces that are available, but no one is willing to improve them or make their own.

Quote from: Crimson Wizard on Yesterday at 17:19

    In terms of character movement, I found keyboard controls give much more immersion and worked well in the "Cat Lady" for example, because having to keep hold keys to move character around gave more connection with her. I never tried playing adventure game with joystick or gamepad, so cannot tell about that.

I actually remember someone telling me that the only adventure game they liked, was Escape from Monkey Island, because it had those type of controls. The guy felt a disconnect from the character in most adventure games due to having to point and click to move, and as such preferred even the tank controls over it.
While I don't share his opinions, I did find it quite interesting. Perhaps direct control of the character could be the future for adventure games?

Personally I didn't enjoy the controls in Monkey Island 4 or Broken Sword 3. I found them cumbersome and more suited to action games.

An interesting alternative is to have an onscreen character that you can't move, like in The adventures of Valdo and Marie or more recently An eternity reflecting. When done right, being immobile doesn't bother me that much and it allows for more varied camera angles.

Agreed, I'm not too fond the controls in those games either. But the fact that some people do, is at least worth thinking about.

As for games with a static onscreen character... yeah, I can't stand those.
The adventure game controls I like the most to the ones I hate the most:
1. Point and click to move
2. Direct control
3. Text parser
4. Tank controls
5. First person adventure games
6. That weird thing Monkey Island 5 did
7. Static onscreen character