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When I first loaded this thread and saw the images I had a very powerful moment of nostalgia for the games I used to make on my Atari (in BASIC) 20 odd years ago!  It was nice!

Having said that ...

These are rather primitive and feel rushed!  Just simply slowing down and taking your time could improve them vastly. (the USA on the rocket for one, it's jagged and sloppy looking)

Not knowing your age and/or level of experience it's hard to know what you're capable of.  But from what you're shown here it would seem you could improve if you just slowed down a bit and took a bit more care in the details.

Rodney King is no social hero and/or role-model.  He was a gang-banging drug addict loser.  However, having said that, what happened to him was an example of police brutality and he certainly didn't deserve the level of abuse he received.

From what I could interpret from the video those cops weren't trying to subdue him; they were trying to beat him to death.  They were kicking, night-sticking, and punching him while insanely enraged.  They weren't reaching for handcuffs or straps to detain him, they were just wailin' on the guy.  I would agree 100% that this was brutality.

Though again the video starts rolling after the initial "incident" occured that set that whole thing in motion.  So public perception was based off sensational news coverage making it seem like King was some innocent poor black guy getting beat on needlessly by racist white cops.  While the beating was barbaric and unnecessary the tape doesn't show (and the stories never seem to mention) that King was fucked up on PCP, ran from the cops, was threatening them, was resisting arrest, and fighting back violently (though by the time the camera started rolling he had most of his "fight" beaten out of him already so the tape doesn't show that part).  It's tragic, and the cops went WAY overboard with the force they used.  They had subdued him enough that they could have cuffed him, but they didn't.  They kept wailing away at him over and over again.

The cop in this video never threw a punch, he never kicked, he never pulled his nightstick, gun, or mace.  Which is why I don't interpret this as brutality.  Again, this is just how I see it.  I don't for a second think any of you who see it different will ever change your minds just 'cause I point out my opinion.

Sites like YouTube ARE an important part of free speech.  You can turn on your webcam and rant to the world about issues that you care about.  Like all technology, it gets abused.  But Guybrush offers an interesting perspective:  Does free speech include a freedom to make personal jabs at somebody and mock them before the world?

I could be wrong but I think that if you're out in public you can be video taped without giving permission.  Any "law" people here that can attest to this?  Though please; lawyers only, cops won't be given a fair shake around here (sorry, couldn't resist)

I know that if somebody snuck up to your window and took video of you masterbating in your bedroom to midget porn and then put it on the web you could have him sued for invasion of privacy.  But out in public I don't think the same rule applies.

Now ... just because I can catch somebody' embarrassing moment on video doesn't mean I should share it with the world.  Sadly, there's no way to stop rude and inconsiderate people from doing rude and inconsiderate things if they aren't technically breaking any laws by doing it.

[strawman argument]

I tend to agree with Becky and the others, the AMOUNT of force was too much.  Now it's true we didn't see the events before the camera was turned on, but the kids weren't being violent towards the officer. 

The important question to me is what did they do before the camera was rolling.  If all they were doing was skateboarding, then I don't think that merits the kind of treatment he gave them, even if they did run.

Some cops are pigs. Let's face it.

Yes, there are bad cops.  Just as there are "bad" civilians.

I'm going to go out on a limb and take a guess that many of you who argue the cop was too excessive have never been in a situation where you're outnumbered 5 to 1.  I have (well ... it was 4 to 1, but they were a lot bigger).  You can see the whole video (after the fact) and know that these kids didn't get violent.  That doesn't mean they couldn't have.  The cop had no way to know they weren't going to get violent.  He was in the middle of a stressful situation where he was outnumbered and had people shouting and coming at him from all sides.  In my opinion, he showed remarkable reserve in not drawing his weapon or even just his mace.  Police officers are trained (yes trained) that when you commit to using force to detain you don't half-ass it.  You make sure the person(s) you're detaining have the least amount of chance to resist, whether they are 31 or 13 is irrelevant.  This is, to me (and I can't see how anybody with intelligence would see it otherwise), common sense in situations like this.

Now it is possible that this cop is just an asshole who hates kids.  It's possible he just started fuckin' with this kids out of some bitter resentment for his lost youth.  Again, this video only tells 1 small side of the story and we may never know as the first shot we see he's already got the first kid detained.  I'm not really defending this cop, but more police in general.  They do a thankless job and most people don't seem to know, realize, or even care and I find that offensive.

Do you know what a strawman argument is? Would you care to explain your understanding of it, so that I can make sense of your post? Would you also care to explain how pointing out a logical fallacy makes me lose anything?

No, I don't think that being 13 gives somebody the right to break the law. That's why your argument is a strawman argument. It's fallacious because nobody ever claimed that 13-year-olds should be immune to the law. You misrepresented the opposing argument and then refuted it. It's a logical fallacy. That's all I'm saying. I'm not really taking sides in this discussion at all.

Yes I know what the "strawman" argument is.  It's a useless argument tool which people toss out too frequently

Shbaz said:

Plus the general american opinion is that the cop is always right and that cops put up with way too much crap already.

There is little strength and/or point in this statement as it's conjecture.  Most of the people I have talked about this with think the EXACT opposite (and yes, they're Americans)  It seems to me that it must be fun to jump on the "all cops are bad" bandwagon.

And:

So beat up the 13 year olds, choking is better than simple detaining if they give you any crap because you have to show them you're the boss.

I don't see any logic in this statement.  I will go back and watch the video again if I'm wrong, but I don't believe the cop ever threw a punch.  He wasn't "beating them up".  He was simply detaining them.

A choke-hold is one of the single most effective ways to detain somebody.  If the situation is set-off and gets physical the cop is going to use all the training (including choke holds) to detain and difuse the situation.  Arguing that "choking is better than detaining" is then completely illogical.

Thus my counter-argument is perfectly logical.  The fact of their age doesn't come into play (in my opinion).  No strawman there.  Now of course it's simple and easy to counter-argue with your points and throw out Mr. Strawman again.  Which is why I think the strawman argument is worthless as it's simply a matter of opinion

I don't know ... I guess it's just a matter of how each of us looks at the world.  I don't see this video as an example of police brutality (given my experience with police and other things) but I can, of course, see why some people do.  I saw a video on the news last night where a police officer already had one guy detained and another office came running in and starting throwing knees and punches HARD on the guy who was already detained on the ground and wasn't resisting.  THAT is brutality.  This video?  Not so much.

[Edit]

No you're absolutely right ... being a smartass know-it-all 13 year old should give you the right to break the law.

I call strawman on this. I'm all for people being of different opinions, but GOD DAMN, at least use proper arguments...

Ahhhh ... the [rediculous, pointless, worthless] strawman excuse strikes again!!  I feel if you must resort the strawman, you've already lost the point.  What exactly isn't "proper" about my argument?  Do you really think that being 13 gives somebody the right to break the law?

A scenario:

The judge says, "let them go free!"
Prosecutor, "but your honor... we have it on camera and he admits he shot and killed the cop!"
Judge, "Mr. prosecutor it's okay ... he's 13??!!?"
Prosecutor, "oh you're right, he should go free, I mean .... he's 13"

I don't care if they were 4 years old.  They were breaking the law, they resisted, they suffered the consequences.  The really sad thing I see from this is that now, because of youTube they'll attain some kind of "celebrity" for this.  Now, rather than learning from this incident (as an intelligent person would), they'll continue to think they were in the "right" and remain ignorant punks.

It's awfully convenient how all these people rally against the police without having any real idea what they have to go through on a day-to-day basis.  It's these same people that belly ache against the police who are the first people whining when they need a cop, but can't find one.  Well ... you probably can't find one because he is in court defending himself against one of your fellow complainers who is sueing him for looking at them funny.

Edit
If anybody wishes to continue this debate with me, please send me PMs.  I will not continue to clutter this thread with things unrelated to the actual topic.  And I wish to apologize to Raggit for my tangent.

Plus the general american opinion is that the cop is always right and that cops put up with way too much crap already.

So beat up the 13 year olds, choking is better than simple detaining if they give you any crap because you have to show them you're the boss.

No you're absolutely right ... being a smartass know-it-all 13 year old should give you the right to break the law.

And cops should let you roll all over them 'cause, as we all know, 13 year olds know a lot more than the cops as to who should do what with the law.

My bad.

But they weren't just loitering.  They were riding their skateboards in direct violation of city ordinance.  Just because it's "ride your skateboard day" doesn't mean that law just goes away.  I'd be willing to bet you that these kids had been told by that cop several times to stop.  These little punks, thinking they know best, decided not to.  The cop steps up, they get loud, so he takes one of them down.  Then they all start yelling at him from all angles and there he is by himself outnumbered more than 5 to 1.  In my opinion, the cop actually kept his head pretty damn well.  He answered every question they asked him and even said, "calm down or I'm gonna spray you" which he never resorted to doing.

He told the girl, who was clearly sticking her nose in the way when he was trying to manage the cuffed kid, that she was under arrest for interfering and obstructing and she ran.  He should have tazed her punk-ass.  She's lucky all she got was a little head-lock action.  What?  He should have been "gentle" just 'cause she's a girl?  A girl can pull a knife just as easily as a guy.  You do not get in the way when a cop is arresting somebody ... no matter how much you think he's wrong, you do not interfere.  She is a moron.

I think there's a bigger issue at play here than "police brutality" ... I think it's a larger issue of kids/people thinking they don't have to worry about consequences for not obeying the law.  I download mp3, if the cops come knocking one day I certainly am not going to resist arrest (even though I would vehemently disagree with it).

Meh ... I dunno.  I know a lot of cops and I hear a lot of stories about the shit they have to put up with.  In my opinion, if you "step up" to a law officer the way these kids did ... they got what they had comin' to 'em, and maybe not even what they deserved.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EH6AYVn2yw4

I can't speak for anybody else ... but I was rootin' for the cop.  If these little kid's attitudes, when the camera showed up, are any indication the first kid on the ground probably did something stupid and then the rest jumped in with their 13 year old "wisdom" and thinking they know what's right.  The camera doesn't show the original take-down or the events leading to it.

If there is a city ordinance that you're not allowed to ride your skateboards in town, a "national ride your skateboard day" doesn't make it okay.  They broke the law, period.

Granted the cop did get a bit physical, however, those 5 or 6 kids could easily over-power him (and kill him).  The cop's only choice was a brutal show of force to convince them not to resist.  Which they, idiotically, still did.  I say they got what they had coming to them.

Thanks for all the kind words

What would have been wrong with sending the author a PM thanking him for trying to liven up the forum and that you would let it run for a few days before moving it,  maybe even encourage  him to edit out the explanation so that people would fall for it?

I suppose it wouldn't have been a bad thing to let it go awhile.  However, I worry that if one person does it, others would follow suit.  Personally I don't like seeing a game with promise, getting my hopes up, and then finding out it's a farce!  This would, in my opinion, lessen the effectiveness of the GiP board.  Granted, if it had been posted in the Talk and Chat (where I have since moved it) it would be suspect right away 'cause why wasn't it posted in the GiP?

I would like to clarify that (in most cases) when I lock a thread I send a PM to the author explaining the situation.  They are almost always appreciative and work with me to set their thread straight.  I have cases where I've bounced 5 or 6 PMs back 'n forth helping them out.  I've even wrote/edited some of their threads for them!

I may be a Sith ... but there's a heart in there somewhere with all the evil!!!

1. Is Darth Mandarb just a locking machine?
2. Are the other mods MIA? Or too nice to hand out locks?
3. Do so many threads need to be locked?

In my opinion:

1. 99% of the time Darth's locks seem fair. Some of them can be a bit terse, but lets be honest...How many times can one person reiterate the board policies without cracking?

2. I have no answer to this. I just rarely, if ever, see any name other than Darth Mandarb's at the ass-end of a GiP lock.

3. This is a matter of opinion. Though, various reasons why aside, I would say yes.

Hehe!  I'd have locked this thread LONG ago!!  Kidding

I tend to be the only one that moderates that board. Snake shows up from time to time though he's far more lenient than I am.  I don't even know who Nellie is.

I'm a pretty cut'n'dry kind of moderator really.  There are rules, if they are broken I lock.  If they are "grey" areas (like the second screenie is a menu or something) I will post a warning to read the rules and update, if they don't comply, lock goes the weasel.

Sure, I can be a bit terse from time to time but (as LimpingFish commented on) considering the number of idiots people that just can't seem to read the very simple rules before posting it's amazing I keep my cool at all sometimes!  All-in-all (personally) I think I do a pretty damn good job at it.

The alternative is a bunch of "I'm makeing a game!  It's gonna be teh awesomes!!1!!" threads with no information, no screenshots, nothing.  Speaking for myself personally, I wouldn't want to post a thread in there with my actual "in production" game if it were like that 'cause it'd be lost in the muck (as it was like before I started my domination term as moderator).  The board would quickly deteriorate into uselessness (in my opinion).

But hey ... this is just my opinion.  I'm not trying to be a hard-ass or to piss people off.  I'll even resign as a moderator if that's what people want.  My intent isn't to offend, just to keep it clean and usable in there.  Which I feel is being accomplished.

It's easy to forget that until relatively recently, countries in the West had Blasphemy laws and would behead/imprison people who said anything against Jesus; not forgetting that if you did anything out of the ordinary in your day to day life, you'd be branded a witch and put to death.

You could argue that countries like Sudan are simply at a different stage of "evolution" to countries in the West, and that in time they will become more moderate. It's only when two countries at different stages collide that it becomes a problem, as in this case.

Oh believe me, I'm not sticking up for Christianity by any means.  We're just as hypocritical a bunch as any organized religion.  I say "we" 'cause I was raised Christian and still consider myself one.  Even though I hate what's been done in the name of my religion (and all organized religions).  Yet I still call myself one...  See?  Hypocrits all.

As for the Sudan being at a different state of "evolution" well ... I don't know.  I'm of two vastly differing opinions on this.

Part of me thinks a line must be drawn somewhere.  The world is evolving and 40 lashes for naming a bear is dumb.  What if they believed it was a crime worthy of a hanging/beheading?  Should we just say, "well, it's their culture"?  It's 2007, not 1380!

Then another part of me says, "who are we to say what they believe is right or wrong?"  It's their land and their culture and they should dictate it, not us.

But I lean more towards a line being drawn.  Her 'crime' is a joke and giving her lashes (even 1) is barbaric and, it would seem to me, intentionally confrontational.  Seems more like they want to "show the west (Christians/Jews)" something rather than actually caring about the bear.  Wars have been started over things far more trivial I suppose.

I can see it now ... 100 years from now the history records will say, "And then there was World War III ... the most deadly war in human history that destroyed nearly the entire planet.  All because of a teddy bear."

Way to go religion!!

You guys better be careful what you write on here, there could be one of them reading this very thread and accusing us of insulting Islam AND that we should all be executed for it. See, this is how incredibly stupid and unpredictable these religion fanatics are. I just can't find the proper words to express myself... so I'll use this smilie instead  : and name him Mohammed.

I openly insult Islam outloud.  They should give her the 40 lashes for her heinous crime and then go right back to preaching peace and tolerance.  Way to go!  I used the bathroom yesterday and I named the result Mohammed.  That should be enough to kick-off the next Crusades!

Now before anybody has an anuerism or, in the name of peace, wants to cut my head off for my "racist" comments, you should know I feel the same way about all organized religions.

I agree with CJ's sentiments about culture dictating what's acceptable.  I'm not saying their practice of lashing is right or wrong.  I just don't like the hypocracy of a religion, which preaches peace and tolerance, giving lashes to somebody that named a bear.

What happens if you breathe less when your sleeping?

When your sleeping does what?  And you have a sleeping?  I wish I had a sleeping.  I would take it to the park and put it on the swings ... we'd be great friends!

[this thread]

I get high by double-posting three times in a row ... oh wait, no I don't.

Seriously though?  This is really lame.  It gives this thread some meaning I hadn't previously given it.

[Private Message]

You know the last post was in August ... which means you know you're breaking the forum rules.  Which would imply that you've read them.  However, if you had read them you'd know to send a Private Message to the author, as the rules say.

Do not dig up old threads no matter how much you want to.

Please review the Rules for this board ...

PM me when ready to follow them.

Fix the images [very] soon ...

[Nightfable]

It was a pointless bump I suppose ... but the first post was updated in September so I suppose it's not really breaking the rules!

Nightfable ... if you're not working on this anymore let me know and I'll lock it!  But I hope you are still working on it!

Given the sheer volume/vastness of space and time; I find it highly unlikely that any other civilizations have found us and/or are visiting us.

The analogy I usually make (when discussing this topic with friends - and yes, it happens quite often) is that if there were only two humans on the entire planet and they both spent their entire lives wandering around looking for eachother, the odds of them actually meeting are so incredibly remote it's not unreasonable to say, "it's impossible they'd ever meet".

Now multiply those (already astronomical) odds by a factor of several trillion (to account for the size/scale of the universe) and you've not even incresed the odds of finding another specie(s) somewhere out there in space by even 1%.

I'm totally convinced there are other species out there.  I just don't think we'll ever chance to meet them.

sigh ...

Cirius - if you are still working on this let me know when you want to update it and I'll unlock it (please include a link to this thread in your PM)

davidnagel - again, don't dig up old threads.  read the rules.

Ladies and Gentlemen I believe we have a new forum-record here!!  OVER THREE YEARS AS A DEAD THREAD!!!

Wow ...

davidnagel - don't do that again.  Read the forum rules.