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I also played Purity of the Surf a few days ago, and I really liked it. I feel that I'm missing out on something because I play the RON games out of order, but at least I'm starting to know the characters now.

The only time I got really stuck was because I for some reason hadn't realised that you could visit the location with the telescope on the cliff. You don't know HOW long I spent trying to turn the detergent into drugs before I found the rope

Thank you for all the kind words

Ali: Thanks for noticing the expressionist influence, although the Caligari sign perhaps made it a little too obvious. German expressionist film is an important part of the plot of the game, so I figured a small homage was in order.
As for making L.A. dark and rainy, I really wanted to stay away from the Blade Runner cliché, but thanks for the suggestion - I have considered it for a long time myself. I think it's much more of a challenge to make Los Angeles seem mysterious and weird in bright sunlight (think David Lynch's last two films, Lost Highway and Mulholland Drive), and I like the contrast of sunny days and dark nights. Sunshine and noir. In fact, the working title for the game used to be "Sunset by Night".

DinghyDog: I have wondered the same thing. 30-40 backgrounds at 640x400 and 16bit color, that's quite a lot. Add to that the sprites and sound effects.... now that's a scary thought.
And it really worries me that AGS precaches all the sprite data (or so I've heard, can anyone verify this?). There doesn't to seem to be any limits on sprites except the maximum number. But surely it can't all fit in memory if you use large hi-res hi-color sprites?

Well, the tilted head was just to make her seem less stiff for this shot. Just think of it as a single frame from an idle animation.

Also, I'd like to ask this: I was thinking about giving her a bag (carriedover her shoulder), to avoid the magic pockets phenomenon. But I worry that it will cause trouble when animating (such as having her put it down at times while doing something else and such) has anyone had these same considerations? The only bag (visible, not as the briefcase in PQ1) that I remember from any adventure game was Indy's shoulder bag, but that was quite small compared to what I intend. The other solution would be a big coat but the game takes place in L.A. and I suppose that would be a bit too hot at daytime (she DOES wear a coat at night though).

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I know most of you guys hate Poser art - and I do too, at least when it has that Poser look. However, producing an animation heavy game all by my self, it's the only option, and I think I've managed to get rid of most of that standardized look that just screams Poser.

So I've messed around with the sketch render settings in Poser for a week or so, without getting results I was happy about. The colored areas just aren't solid enough. So I decided for a new approach, closer to the technique used for the background: Combining a monochrome sketch render with a seperate color layer.
This is what I came up with, and I think it fits pretty well with the background style. I can't believe that I spent so long on creating textures and finding the right clothing props and hair, and you can't make out a single detail in the final artwork. But at least I didn't get around to drawing reflection maps for the boots

I do need to clean it up a bit (I hate the nose line), but for now, this is the look of my characters. Tell me what you think.



And composited with the background (I see now that the character should be quite a bit darker):



By the way, does she look tall and skinny to you? She's supposed to be, and compared to normal adventure game characters (Indy and Guybrush), she is. But should I try to exaggerate that further? Of course, it depends on the other characters in the game, but I'm going for a realistic, slightly stylized look.

I DID try out pixel resize yesterday, and it STILL did the antialising thing. But that was with transparent background. Maybe I should try with colored background.

Thanks, I'll try that out when I get home (although I did think I had gone through all the resampling settings).

I've been playing around with Animation Shop from Jasc the last few days, and it seems like a great tool for preparing animated artwork for AGS. However, it seem I can't resize an animation (in Animation Shop) without also antialising the edges of the character? Even when I set the background to translucent, I still get antialised edges that look terrible in AGS. Anyone know how to avoid this?

Hi Ratracer. Congratulations on creating a great game. I got it yesterday (would have downloaded it sooner if not for the file size), and played it all through the evening. It's right up there with Pleurgburg (or however you spell that awful name ) only with nicer art.

I have a few thoughts on it though, some of it criticism, some of it... well, just things I noticed while playing. I don't expect you to change anything in the game, but maybe you can keep it in mind for your next game. I'll put them all as spoiler text not to reveal anything during my ramblings:

Spoiler

First of all, the puzzle with the coordinates at the end. A lot of people seem to have trouble with those, and that was also the only time I got really stuck. See, to me coordinates aren't just a series of numbers, there are at least two of them (x and y, longitude and latitude) and perhaps as much as four or five when we're talking other dimensions. Anyway,  I think people get stuck because they don't expect it to be just one long number. Maybe you could just put a "format of entry: XXXXXXXXX" or something similar along with the "enter coordinates" prompt.
And on those lines, here comes the random thoughts: Because I was having trouble with the coordinates, I started thinking that they might be real world coordinates (might as well be real world coordinates as years, couldn't they? neither seems to make too much sense unless the scientist put the museum sign up himself). The Sea Encyclopedia was a real red herring. Especially since you put it in the office as well as the lab, and had the player character comment that she didn't know what to look for, at least not right now. I kept thinking that I should found out were the actual Robinson Crusoe island was and find it on a map, or maybe find the coordinates for the place where the freedom statue was found. But now that Phil was gone and I couldn't find a copy of Robinson Crusoe, I just resorted to entering the numbers in any combination and finally found the straight ahead answer.
Speaking of Phil, I know that you've admitted that there's not much characterization of any of the NPCs. But especially Phil struck me as odd. He was just this know-it-all info-machine of a man, standing around, waiting to help you. I really expected him to turn out to be the master villain, because he was just TOO friendly and helpful, never asking for anything in return. Maybe you could have used your laptop and the books in the office more, like you did in the beginning, instead of letting Phil know so much. And while I remember - the laptop and the notepad carried pretty much the same function - sometimes notes got added to the pad, sometimes they got added to the computer. The notepad wasn't used much either, for the largest part of the game it contained only two pages of notes. If not for the need to draw the symbols by hand, it could have been eliminated.
It would have been nice to actually meet Peter earlier in the game. His cigarette was always there, smoking away, but he was never to be seen. It's a major flaw in many games, that you never get to meet the badguys before your final confrontation with them, but especially seeing as Peter was a mole within the office, he should have been presented as a nice guy first.
The architecture was cool, futuristic in a modernist sort of way. Reminded me of Truffauts Fahrenheit 451. I'm not so sure that Le Corbusier would be happy that you turned his Villa Savoye into a warehouse though

The puzzles were - in one word - GREAT. Very logical, not too easy and not too hard. I got really stuck only two times (first one when I failed to find the cigarette in the vase on 11th floor, second, as I said, with the coordinates). And the vase made sense when I retraced my steps and read her comment about the other cigarettes. I really liked the nailpolish puzzle, but now I'll have to rethink my own game - I had a VERY similar puzzle with a keypad in mind. I thought the whole thing with the symbols on the painting and all that was a bit contrived (maybe there's part of the plot I didn't get, but why would they even think of hiding the filter in the newspaper building?) but I suppose that's the kind of stuff people DO in adventure games. I wouldn't cry if there wasn't a single puzzle with translations of strange symbols ever again though. Maybe because it reminds me of the glory days of copy protections (KQ5, KQ6, Indy3 etc. etc.). Although I supposed it worked quite well in GK1 (if only because of a good interface, and that you actually had to compose a message while filling in the blanks yourself).
What else is there to say? It was a thrilling ride playing it. Just like being back in the good old days. I'm really looking forward to your next project, especially if you spend more time on the characters. The story and the whole philosophical aspect was fascinating. I think I'll replay the game just to make sure that I understood it all.
Finishing off, a single question: You find two keys on Peter, but lose them both after finding Colin. What is the second one for? The P.O. Box?

[close]

Thanks for a great gaming experience!

DGMacphee, I unzipped Sakura when I got home yesterday (had it in my abandonware collection, but it took me a while to find it, because I have them sorted by company, and I had no idea who'd made it), but it wouldn't run on XP. As for Grim Fandango, I've only played it one time, back when it came out ('twas Christmas, don't recall what year anymore). I have installed it, but it acts up under XP as well (crashed the moment Glottis was about to come out of his office). Will try them both out on Win98 tonight.

SuperScotthishHero. I agree with what you say, although Titanic probably isn't the best example, not just because I hate the movie, but because the tragedy comes at the end. The question should be how James Cameron makes the audience sympathize with Leo BEFORE the ship hits the iceberg.

But it leads on to another question: How should friends be used in game? It may be effective to kill the characters best friend off near the end to motivate him, but won't we see it coming? Obviously friends can help the PC or they can cause problems (having to rescue them etc.) but can they somehow add to the drama without being sacrificed for the sake of the story?

That's why it's so hard to get them to do it, Rabbit

DGMacphee, I'm working on the story outline, I'll send it as soon as it's done. (I hope you've read MY edit as well )

But to return to the topic after our short lesbian interlude, I'd like to hear people's thoughts on how you get the player (as well as the player character) to really care about an NPC, maybe even fall in love with them. But, to keep sexual attraction out of the discussion, let's just stick to friendship for now. What kind of personalities make for good NPC-friends? And how do you put depth into the relationship? Very often, the PCs in adventure games are opportunistic, they make friends with whoever can assist them in their quest (and often it's rather obvious that you only help others because the game expect you to do it for getting something in return).

Background is one way. I believed in the relationship between Gabe and Mosely in GK1 and 3 right from the start, because they obviously had a past together. Gabe knew all the right things to say to annoy Mosely. But all this refers back to something that happened before the game started, out of the players grasp. How do you make friends during gameplay with a character that the PC has never met before? How do you turn friendship and making friends into interaction?
I think that being helpful to everyone you meet (King's Quest and Quest for Glory series) has been overdone - you do it because you expect something in return anyway, if not a service or an item, then at least some kind of honor from the game (doing good deeds ALWAYS pay off in adventure games, and you know it, even if it's just saving a mouse from a cat). There's too little cynicism in games these days Also, this constant aiding of everyone around you devaluates the character's true friendships.
Maybe we should turn it around, let the player be in trouble and have some nice person help them. It would then be up to the player whether or not he would return the favor and create a basis for a relationship?

Any ideas on this? Please feel free to refer back to the discussion on love if it helps. I just changed it to friendship to simplify matters.

Did you see the cutscene where the girl on Mars said that she sent a gas can to Annie? If you've played the original Zak, you would know that Annie's office is the door between the pawn shop and the hairdresser. Now, how can you get in there?

Not sure how much off topic this is. "Goals" seem to be a hard to define word, because on a macro level (the whole arc of the game storyline), it usually means very little for gameplay, on a micro level (specific situations within the game), it's more related to puzzles than plot.

From what I understand, you are looking for goals somewhere in between, as subquests to split up the story.

I seem to recall some article that listed the possible "plots" in adventure games. I'll see if I can find it. Meanwhile I think it is important to simplify the list to it's basics. For example the "Gather the pieces to fix something in order to leave" are actually combined of two parts: The Quest plot (looking for stuff in all the wrong places a la King's Quest I) and a Parts-of-an-item puzzle (As in "the amulet has been split in six pieces, and you must combine them to unlock the gate", actually not unlike the keys in KQ2), which is just a way of structuring the plot (key to the next part of the game). This could also be parts of a map (MI2).

For some plot ideas, that might be used in games, check out George Polti's classic "36 Dramatic Situations" which can be found at http://www.gamedev.net/reference/articles/article255.asp
it's written with drama and litterature in minds, but it could easily be used for interactive narratives as well. Links to a lot of other great articles at http://www.gamedev.net/reference/list.asp?categoryid=63#23
and also check out Gamasutra.com.

Also, to everyone writing stories, I'd like to recommend http://wordplayer.com/columns/welcome.html
A great site for storytellers, and probably the best screenwriting resource I've ever seen (and I've read plenty of books on the subject).

Edit: Some rather obvious additions to your list consists of character interactions. Killing someone, seducing someone, getting someone to help you etc.

DGMacphee, you're a GENIUS!!!!

Thank you so much. I hadn't even thought about the possibility of the player character relating to the love interest through an image. That's just perfect. Fits in exactly with the themes. You have no idea how much your post inspired me. It even relates to some other details I had planned (the player character telling the neighbour that she looks like a silent movie star, which she has a poster of in her apartment. That she somehow admires her from afar like the long gone stars she sees on the movie screen). I'll go home and think some more about this. I'll write something down and send it to you in a few days. I'd love to hear your ideas.

Dude, you just made my day! Thank you so much.

Edit: I just read your edit. I don't know about the nude photography thing, but I'll think about it. I'm open to all ideas. But the idea of leaving photographs struck a chord. I have a puzzle involving a photo automat, and it would be nice if it could serve a double fuction. And yes, I am familiar with Mr. Eszterhas (three-million-dollar hack!), actually I'm currently viewing some of his movies (Basic Instinct and Showgirls) for my film studies thesis on representations of bisexuality in films. So yes, I'm well aware of the risks of misusing lesbianism as a cheap effect.

DGMacphee, I agree completely with what you say. I think the element of identity and motivation is absolutely crucial. I understand what you're saying about using a symbol to represent the relationship, and I think it's a good idea, but I can't really imagine how it should be done (that stupid snowman or whatever it was in Phantasmagoria keeps popping into my mind). Could you possible give an example?

I'll give you a brief description of the events leading to the love scene in my game without too many spoilers (although I'll doubt you remember them when the game is finished, in 2010 with any luck ) If you have any idea how it could be toned down, please say.

Something bad happens to the player character, and her next door neighbour (the love interest) finds her nearly catatonic, sobbing and shivering on the floor of her apartment. She holds her close, trying to comfort her, strokes her hair, whispers comforting words to her. Depending on how involved you've gotten with her (you can talk to her, come to her party and go on a date with her at one point, but all these are optional), she may softly kiss the player character, who starts to awaken from her trance, returning the kisses. The neighbour brings her to her own apartment (the lock to the PC's apartment having been broken and the whole place being a mess). She brings her to the bedroom, helping her undress, and lies down in the bed with her, still hugging, kissing, stroking.

It's more an act of comforting, of helping to forget than it is a real sexual act. It ties in with the theme of the game about reality and illusion, this being the physical side of the self, which the main character has been escaping from into her world of old movies, always watched alone.

I agree that the scene as written could probably be shorter, and you would still get the point. And it didn't have to show nudity - I'm not sure that it will. But I wanted it to be slow and purely visual - no words (we must imagine what's being whispered) - and I wanted to show each beat, each change of emotion. I also think it's important for the to have a real bodily presence, as this is her first time of being physically intimate with the neighbour, and with anyone for quite a long time. It should be a huge contrast to her usually very intellectual and cerebral personality.

But I suppose that in the end, most people will just say: "cool, two chicks making out!"

My game IS scary (not very violent or graphic, but quite unsettling in a David Lynch sort of way), and that's why I want to use romantic scenes as a counterpoint to the horror. Also, there is little to be scared about unless you actually care about the characters. As for funny - well, I don't do funny

Wow, great to see how many people responded to this topic. Obviously I'm not the only one thinking about this.

Cerulean, I don't know what genre/mood you want for your game - but if it's even remotely serious, why don't you just have the npc show that she isn't interested? Unless you're playing off the sexual tension (Mulder/Scully style) I don't see why the player shouldn't accept this, and I'm not sure why he would even consider the possibility unless you somehow insinuate it. After all, this isn't Larry and the player character surely has more important goals than to "bag the babe"?

Too many movies throw in a romance just to satisfy a certain segment of the audience - the worst example that comes to mind being From Hell - and I think it's pretty terrible that we assume that anything romantic or sexual will happen just because you put a male and a female character in the same movie. In other words - If it's not necessary for the story or the characters, keep romance out of it.

I haven't played much hentai (it seems to me that you just click through the options until you hit the right one - and when you do, something entirely different happens than what you anticipated) but I assume that most of the games are "quests" for some girl that ends when you finally get her? Am I right? Anyway, as an additional question for my first post: Do you think that the player character and the npc should only get together at the end of the game, or could this happen in the middle of the game (and I don't mean Larry-style: "sleep with her, then on to the next conquest")? How do you imagine that their relationship as a couple (as opposed to just dating) could be told in a game? And how could it be used in telling the story?

Also, how do you feel about sex scenes in games? There haven't been too many within mainstream gaming (had there been a single one in LucasArts' games?) and often they have been rather embarassing. Either trying too hard to be naughty (Larry) or ridiculously chaste (Codename: Iceman come to mind). Some of the FMV games came pretty close - GK2 had at least the prelude to an erotic scene, and the Phantasmagoria games both contained pretty explicit sexual sequences.
I thought Phantasmagoria 2 was based too much on sex - even though it was part of the plot - it just seemed like a bad exploitation movie. But the sex-turned-into-rape scene in Phantasmagoria 1 on the other hand was in my opinion very effective in a dramatic sense - it was the first time you really understood how Don's personality had changed. And it was handled in a pretty mature way, unlike the cheap S&M in P2.

One of the reasons I'm asking, is that the main character in my game is a lesbian, and her love interest is a woman (maybe we could start another topic on gay characters in games ). At one point in the game, there is a chance of them getting intimate, and I would like to show at least a bit more than just a kiss, but in a tasteful manner. I'd hate it, if people thought that I chose a lesbian character, just to be able to show two women in bed. But on the other hand, I don't want it too seem like I WON'T allow them to be physically intimate, just because they're gay. I don't even want the scene to seem erotic to the player - there are too many psychological levels in how they end up together for it to be titillating, but I suppose that some people might not be able to see beyond the nudity. Should I remove this scene entirely from the game?

Any thoughts or advice would be greatly appreciated

cpage, I really like your girlfriend's drawing. I think that style would fit really well - only with some muted colors added. Stylized but not caricatured - and thin, as you said Scumbuddy

jannar85: the coloring is REALLY simple, although it took a while. I just use the polygonal lasso in PhotShop to select the surfaces, and then filled them with gradients (sometimes between very similar colors, but still gradients to add a softer, organic feel). The pencil sketch was the top layer with, I believe, the "darken" setting. It all depends on that layer really. Without it, the background looks almost like a first person shooter scene with the textures missing - just flat polygonal-like surfaces. You couldn't really use this coloring technique without some sort of outline, either black or pencil. The final touch was to play around with the saturation to mute the colors (going for a monochromish film-noir feel, but didn't want pure black and white) and the curves to sharpen the contrast.

Maybe this has been discussed before in the forums, but I thought it was an interesting topic. For a long time, I've been thinking about how to implement a romance between the player character and an NPC in the game that I'm writing.

I've replayed some old games, and so far I haven't found a succesful example of it being done. There seems to be a number of approaches, most of them pretty stereotypical:

1) Player character in a relationship when game starts. Phantasmagoria 1 and 2 did that. Police Quest 2 and 3, and I suppose, a couple of the Larry games. Rise of the Dragon did it pretty well, as far as I recall. Often the love interest is used as a plot device (Damsel in Distress - if there is a girlfriend, she's bound to be kidnapped at some point) or just as a means of establishing the more emotional side of the toughguy detective. Steve Dorian in Dagger of Amon Ra, probably the most ridiculous love interest in any game (and not just because he's a guy), has a damsel in distress role as well - the trouble being that you hardly even know him and don't really care if he should step on a poisoned nail without his boot on .

2) The player character, for some weird reason (Love at first sight, destiny, magic) falls in love with some complete stranger, and pursues them either to the end of the game, or at least for a while. Sometimes the object of affection is the goal of the game (KQ2 and KQ6 come to mind), or a means of getting the player character further involved in the plot (Gabriel Knight). Monkey Island did this too with Elaine, but at least they tried to make her likeable.

3) Player character and love interest work together throughout the game, and - of course - have a love/hate relationship. Think Cybil Shepard and Bruce Willis in Moonlighting. Gk2 and 3 had plenty of sexual tension between Grace and Gabriel as did the Broken Sword series with George and Nico. Oh yeah, not to forget Indy 4 with Sophia.

As far as I know, very little has been written on the role of character interaction in graphic adventures as opposed to in IF (where dialog alternatives are much less obvious than in point and click. But I suppose it's related to different views on the player character: Is the character an avatar, a tool for the player to interact with the game world, or is he a role that the player is trying to act out, a character with a preset personality and emotions beyond the player's control.

Should any romance be written as a potential rather than a fact? Should the player be able to choose whether or not they would like to pursue the relationship? How much interactivity is needed for the relationship to seem plausible? I hated the way GK1 just assumed that I would understand Gabe's attraction to Malia. But I see how it would be extremely difficult to tell the story if the romance was optional.
Also, I would like to hear your thoughts on how romance and courtship should be "played out". Most games seem to deal with it as a simplified seduction, usually consisting of giving the right item to your object of affection - love as market economics. I don't even want to mention the Larry series, but even a lot of more serious games let you buy flowers or jewelry to convice the person of your feelings. Quest for Glory 5 was really bad in this respect.
But in what other ways could you imagine romance told through player interactions?

I think the most interesting romance in any game I've played was between Gabriel and von Glower in GK2, because it was an attraction between equals. And the NPC wasn't passive, quite the opposite, he was the one seducing Gabe. The only trouble was that this part of the story was only told in cutscenes. The player never had a choice. And I think that made it less powerful - because the theme of the game was very much one of choice, of following or repressing your animal nature.

The approach that I've currently chosen (but the game is still only in the design phase, so it could easily change, should anyone come up with something better), is - as in GK2 - for the NPC to be interested in the PC from their first meeting. This won't be a seduction subplot. The interaction will consist in the PC choosing, or not choosing, to open up to and let themselves get involved with the non player character. The player will have multiple choices - dialog options, actions (such as choosing to go or not to go to the NPCs party). But none of the available options will be out of character. The romance isn't part of the major plot, so it won't cause trouble with branching plot lines. It's used to reflect the state of mind and the growth - or lack of evolution -  of the player character.

I'd love to hear your thoughts on this.

Thanks for all the suggestions. I'm not familiar with the cartoons you mention, but I'll check out MTV and Cartoon Network and see if they are still running.

I agree that the look would need to be dirty, probably even with visible pencil lines. Has anyone experimented with rendering characters in Poser, printing them out, tracing them roughly onto another paper and scanning them back into the computer and coloring them? It sounds like a lot of trouble, but maybe it could work. I'm a bit hesitant though, because I have 20+ characters in my game. And a lot, probably most of them will need walking and other animation frames.

That's why I thought about using the sketch renderer in Poser. But my problem is that it can't do solid blocks of color, only colored squiggles. I'd prefer a style where the blacks were loosely sketched lines and the other colors were solids (maybe gradients as in the background, but still solid blocks of color).

Also, I don't want it to look too cartoony. The characters will be stylized, but not as much as some of the Full Throttle ones - nor the latter-day Sierra games. I was thinking about Gabriel Knight 1, only in a higher resolution, which DOES make it a whole lot more difficult. Maybe I'm not making much sense, but to me there is very much a difference between GK1 and the brightly colored cartoony drawings of Broken Sword 2 - I really love style of the former while I for some reason dislike the latter.

If anyone has read the Sandman comics, especially the Kindly Ones album and the Death comic The Time of Your Life, you should have some idea of what I mean by "stylized but not cartoony".

I'll see if I can work out something to post this week, and you can tell me what you think. Maybe I'll also be able to post another background which is less Tim Burton'esque.