Messages

Yes, indeed they could invent the explenation. I suppose that's yet another way to go abou it .

*Ginny waits for more opinions and huge posts*
GG? Barcik? (where is he anyway?) Goldmund?

Pelican: I'm female, and I too would love to go to Mittens next year, but I'm only going to be sixteen then, and will probably have other events aswell. We'll see

Sorry bout that, I had to go to sleep
It did turn out rather long though. Here it is:

Items used:
Bottled Love
A tooth
A drill
An out of date magazine
A pen
A rubber glove
A name tag
A lollipop
A rope (added)

Starts with:
(none)

<INTRO>
You and your mom enter the waiting room...
Mom: "Sit down, Curt, I'll be right there."
Mom walks to the reception desk while you sit down.
Mom: "bla bla"
Receptionist: "bla bla bla"
Mom: "bla bla... not available?"
Mom signs a form and sits down next to you.
You: "What did she say?"
Mom: "Nothing for you to worry about, my boy, let's just wait for your turn, ok?"
</INTRO>

LOCATION: WAITING ROOM

TALK TO MOM
You: "Mum?"
Mom: "Mm?"
<DIALOG>
1. I'M GOING TO SEE MY USUAL DOCTOR, RIGHT?
Mom: "No, Dr. Mayands is busy today, you're going to see Dr. Drille."
You: "What? But I don't want to go to Dr. Drille!"
Mom: "You'll see the doctor like everyone else here, there's no reason moving our appointmentÃ,  because a doctor is busy."
You: "But.."
Mom: "No buts, I don't want to hear another word about it."
(Dialog option 2 is activated)
(Dialog option 3 is activated)
(Dialog option 4 is activated)

2. WHERE IS DR. MAYANDS NOW?
You: "Why is he busy?"
Mom: "That is none of our concern."

3. CAN'T WE COME BACK ANOTHER DAY?
Mom: "No, we came today and you'll get your treatment today. It's your fault you got your teeth to this state."
You: "But I.."
Mom: "But nothing."

4. I LOVE YOU MUM!
Mom: "I love you too, Curty."
You: "Now can we go home?"
Mom: "No."

5. WELL, SEE YOU
Mom: "Where exactly do you think you're going?"
You: "Nowhere! I was just ending the conversation."
Mom: "Whatever you say dear."
</DIALOG>

LOOK AT MAGAZINE STAND
"It's full of crappy fashion magazines."

LOOK AT OUT OF DATE MAGAZINE
"It doesn't fit in with all the new fashion mags."
"It's called 'Games Globe'"

PICK UP OUT OF DATE MAGAZINE
"This one looks nice."

LOOK AT PEN
"It's a pen with a really long thin pointy edge, like a needle."

PICK UP PEN
"Oh, damn, I can't believe I didn't notice it was chained to the desk."

LOOK AT NAME TAG
"It's an empty name tag, probably for new employees."

PICK UP NAME TAG
Receptionist: "Why do you need this name tag? You're not an employee!"

LOOK AT RECEPTIONIST
"Eugh, what's that horrid pink colour she's wearing?
"Her name tag reads 'Terry Sacret'."

TALK TO TERRY SACRET
<DIALOG>
1. HI THERE
Terry: "Hi. Do you have an appointment?"
You: "I'm here to see Dr. Mayands."
Terry: "He's unavailable today, you'll have to see Dr. Drille instead."
(Dialog option 2 is activated)

2. WHY IS DR. MAYANDS UNAVAILABLE?
Terry: "He didn't give us details, he just said he had an emergency and couldn't see any patients today. Something about a sickle."

3. WHAT'S THIS DR. DRILLE LIKE?
Terry: "He keeps to himself mostly, not a very social type, but there haven't been any complaints from patients in all his years here, and that's saying a lot."

4. SO, WHAT'S IT LIKE BEING A RECEPTIONIST?
Terry: "It's alright, it can get dull sometimes, but I get to fix the computer when it gets broken, and play a few games when no-one's watching."
You: "You play computer games?"
Terry: "Oh, yeah, I love computer games!"

5. CAN I HAVE YOUR PEN?
Terry: "It's attached to the desk, you can't just take it. It's meant for people to sign forms with."

6. WHAT ABOUT THE NAME TAG?
Terry: "What about it?"
You: "Can I have it?"
Terry: "You're only ten, and you don't work here, so I don't see why you'd need a name tag."

7. NICE TALKING TO YOU
Terry: "Same here."
</DIALOG>

GIVE OUT OF DATE MAGAZINE TO TERRY
You: "Here, maybe you'd like to read this?"
Terry: "What's this? Wow! Fate of Atlantis review! *grabs the mag and reads enthusiastically*"
You: "..."
You: "Your welcome."

STEAL PEN
"It's chained to the desk. Does noone trust people anymore?"

STEAL NAME TAG
"Yay, a blank name tag!"

WALK TO CORRIDOR TO DOCTOR'S OFFICES

LOCATION: CORRIDOR

LOOK AT TRASHCAN
"It's empty and clean."

LOOK AT DOOR TO DR. DRILLE'S OFFICE
"The sign says 'Dr. Deadley Drille'. Just his name should be a good reason to fire him!"

LOOK AT DOOR TO DR. MAYANDS OFFICE
"It says 'Dr. Safin Mayands'."

ENTER DR. DRILLE'S OFFICE
Dr. Drille: "Hey! I'm busy in here, stay out!"

WAIT FOR DR. DRILLE TO COME OUT OF HIS OFFICE AND WALK AWAY (he leaves and returns every 10 seconds or so)

ENTER DR. DRILLE'S OFFICE

LOCATION: DR. DRILLE'S OFFICE

LOOK AT DEADLY INSTRUMENTS(tm)
"Yikes! I better find a way to avoid this appointment, or I'm done for!"

LOOK AT SICKLE
"That's not part of the standart dentist equipment.."

PICK UP SICKLE
"No thank you."

LOOK AT DRILL
"Not the drill... *backs away*"

PICK UP DRILL
"This better not get set off in my pockets."

LOOK AT RUBBER GLOVE
"A rubber du.. err glove!"

PICK UP RUBBER GLOVE

LOOK AT BASKET OF TOYS
(Random message each time)
"This truck has razor-sharp blades for wheels!"
"A wind-up doll with sharp nails and teeth.."
"Eep! It's one of those trick chocolate bars, only I bet this one slices your tongue off when you try to eat the bar. Even I wouldn't play a trick like that on someone!"

PICK UP/USE BASKET OF TOYS
"No way! I'm not putting my hand in a basket of deadly toys, I'm not stupid!"
"Some of these things would make the world's greatest pranks though."

LOOK AT LOLLIPOP
"This looks rather harmless."

PICK UP LOLLIPOP
"Can't pass out on a good sweet!"

LOOK AT JAR OF TEETH
"Eww.. He's got a collection of teeth covered in blood.."

PICK UP JAR OF TEETH
"No, Yuck."

EXIT TO CORRIDOR

WALK TO WAITING ROOM

LOCATION: WAITING ROOM

USE DRILL ON PEN
"And the chain breaks free!"
*looks at Terry the receptionist*
"Wow, she didn't even notice. She must really love games."

WALK TO CORRIDOR

ENTER DR. MAYANDS' OFFICE

LOCATION: DR. MAYANDS' OFFICE

LOOK AT TOYS
"Good old Dr. Mayands has lots of toys!"

LOOK AT DRUG CABINET
"It's got all sorts of drugs and medicine in it. Like my hypochondriac uncle Carl."

OPEN DRUG CABINET
"It's locked."

LOOK AT BOTTLED LOVE
"Odd.."

USE PEN WITH LOCK
"My, isn't this a good lockpick."

OPEN DRUG CABINET
PICK UP BOTTLED LOVE
"Bottled Love, yuck."

EXIT TO CORRIDOR

LOCATION: CORRIDOR

LOOK AT DOOR TO SUPPLY CLOSET
"The sign says 'Supply closet', but there's a barely visible remainder of the words: 'M. Calavera'."

ENTER SUPPLY CLOSET
Man: *opens door*
Man: "Hey, this is a staff only area. You can't come in."
Man: *closes door*

TALT TO/ENTER SUPPLY CLOSET
<DIALOG>
Guard: *opens door*
1. HEY, CAN I COME IN?
Guard: "No. This is a staff only area, and you're not staff."
(Dialog options 2-4 are activated)

2. I'M FROM CLEANING. DON'T YOU WANT YOUR SUPPLIES NICE AND CLEAN?
Guard: "There is no need for cleaning."

3. HOW ABOUT A BRIBE?
Guard: "No way, I'm an honest worker!"
You: "I'll give you a million dollars!"
Guard: "Like you have that amount of money, kid."
You: "I will someday."
Guard: "Whatever. I don't take bribes."

4. I'LL SHOOT YOU WITH THIS GUN!
Guard: "Ha! Stop fooling around kid."

5. BYE
Guard: *closes door*
</DIALOG>

USE PEN ON NAME TAG
"I'll just write something unspecific on this, like 'Management'."

USE NAME TAG
"Yay, now I have a name tag."

ENTER SUPPLY CLOSET
Guard: "I thought I told you to stay out."
You: "I'm from the management, let me through."
Guard: "You look a bit young for management.."
You: "If you make another remark about my height, I'll fire you so fast you won't have time to say 'midget'!"
Guard: "*worried* Oh I'm so sorry sir, please come in, I'll let you examine the supplies yourself, shall I? *runs off*"

LOCATION: SUPPLY CLOSET

LOOK AT ROPE
"It's a rather long piece of rope."

PICK UP ROPE

EXIT TO CORRIDOR

ENTER DR. DRILLE'S OFFICE

LOCATION: DR. DRILLE'S OFFICE
*You suddenly hear sounds of footsteps and Dr. Drille's voice muttering*

HIDE IN LAB-COAT CLOSET
*You almost scream when you see a very authentic-looking human skeleton hanging next to you in the closet, but restrain yourself*

*Dr. Drille's enters, muttering*
Dr. Drille: "Damn idiot doctors, don't know how to handle kids. Morons."
*Dr. Drille's is about to open the closet and hang his coat in it*

JUMP OUT OF CLOSET and SMASH BOTTLED LOVE ON DR. DRILLE'S HEAD
"Whew. That was close."

DRAG DR. DRILLE TO SUPPLY CLOSET
"Gah, he's heavy. Lay off on the cheeseburgers, will you?"

LOCATION: SUPPLY CLOSET

TIE DR. DRILLE UP WITH ROPE

PUNCH DR. DRILLE IN THE TEETH
"Ha, take that!"
"Ooh, I think I knocked out one of his teeth."

PICK UP TOOTH
"I'm not touching it with my bare hands.."

USE RUBBER GLOVE
"I feel like... like I could... take on the world!!"
"Or at least keep my hands clean when I perform surgery."

PICK UP TOOTH
"This tooth shall be a souvenir from today's feats!"

TAKE OFF RUBBER GLOVE
"I better throw this away, it's covered in blood."

EXIT TO CORRIDOR

WALK TO WAITING ROOM

LOCATION: WAITING ROOM

TALK TO MOM
You: "I have a feeling Dr. Drille's going to be unavailable as well."
Mom: "Nonsense. Maybe he's just delayed."

<OUTRO>
*You wait a while, and then you see Terry the secretary make some phone calls.*
*She approaches you*
Terry: "We're very sorry you had to wait Mrs. Elevenson, but it seems Dr. Drille is unreachable, we can't find him anywhere. Please reschedule with Dr. Mayands as usual."
You: "Yay!"
</OUTRO>

<IF You eat the lollipop at any point in the game>
*You suddenly start twitching, and fall to the floor, dead.* Whoops. I guess that lollipop wasn't so harmless after all. Oh well, at least you won't have any more dental treatments.
</IF>

THE END

:o
There. Now, more entries people!

Okay, it's ready, just gonna type it here. I accidentally posted before i finished writing

What do you mean by framing? Do you mean to redirect to www.agsforums.com from www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk?
Of course, it's not really a problem to just use agsforums.com, for me.

Yes, those are good examples of history teasing the player but never revealing more. What I wonder is wether the developers themselves know why Guybrush hates porcelaine or what incident occured upstairs with Sam and Max. It is quite likely they don't know, and just used that as some funny dialog, but it gives us players the illusion that it's real.

Yes! And there should be a cutscene of a pack of space-zombies exiting a room with 667 over the door
This thread has so many great ideas!

Not bad in my opinion. The combination of realistic (photo?) treeleaves and the rest being drawn is rather distracting, and the whole image could do with some more shading and depth, but a very good start

Btw, a tip: don't save art in .jpg. It can usually screw up your image with artifacts. Sometimes it doesn't, but it's best to use gif or png for forum use, and pcx, bmp or png for the game itself.

Good luck on your game and welcome to the forums!

Lol.
Mephi: I was gonna enter anyway
Eggie: There is still time A few days left. Now that I finished my theory post, I have more time for this .

Ok, I finally wrote out the post to discuss these thoughts:
http://www.agsforums.com/yabb/index.php?topic=16171

You are welcome to discuss if you have anything to add to what you said here. Thanks for sharing your "method"

[What is history?]

Ok, this started out as a little idea that was resparked by playing Apprentice 2, and I'm posting it here to get opinions and discuss!

What I'd like to discuss is the importance and role of history and/or backstory in a character and in the dialog involving that character, aswell as in a game world. I'll write this out similarly to a GTD, though this subject is pretty tied into the GTD about character personality.

What is history?
Perhaps I should explain what I refer to as history. I am talking about two kinds of history, one that has happened before the game starts (in the writer's imagination) and one that happens during the game.
A history for a character could include his family tree, his childhood, his highschool years, his jobs, etc. depending on his age of course. This would most likely be part of the pre-game history, while any adventures he has during the game are in-game history. Both kinds of history would include people/other beings he meets, places he visits and investigates, even items he collects, to some extent, if they are of a higher importance than to solve a single problem. Artifacts and ancient books would be an example of this.

Who or What needs history?
First of all, we need to ask ourselves if we need history for anything at all. Obviously I think we do, otehrwise I wouldn't have started this discussion, but if anyone disagrees, please state so, and explain why.

Now, supposing we need it, what should history be applied to?

I'd say history is very important for develping interesting and 3-dimensional character personalities, as was mentioned in the character personality GTD. History gives them a motive and reason for their behaviour, and makes them seem much more real to the player. Character's backstory may also cause players to sympathise with the characters more.
I also believe that as long as the game isn't meant to be a joke or a mostly humourous game, if it's set in a world other than our own, it needs history, and sometimes even if it's set in our own world. A history for a fantasy world of demons and fairies would enhance it's believabillity, perhaps even making the player doubt their own reality. Games that take place in a different time usually rely on history to explain the current advances in technology, current culture, etc. This could be taken from real sources (for a game set in the past) or made up (usually for a game set in the future).

Now I come to actual meat of this discussion, which is more methodic:

How?

First of all, should history be written down at all, or should it be made up while writing the dialogs that express it? As I said here, I've pondered a few ways of incorporating history into games. Where should history be used in the game? dialog references? in-game reading material? diaries, monologues, books, introductions, newspapers/news, character behaviour (as Goldmund said then), other characters reflecting on one character (such as family members), visual means and sounds, etc.

A few examples (both existing and made up):

"That sign looks just like a hat my great-uncle Jerald used to wear for parties."
I made this up as a simple example realted to family history and/or a family tree. This basically tells up the main character has an uncle named Jerald who sometimes wears a hat of a certain shape (probably a strange one, if it resembles the sign). This also uses visual means to describe the uncle, as the sign isn't actually described in the comment, but the players can see it on screen.

"It's the commemorative poster from the annual Willowbean soup contest."
"Master won the blue ribbon with his cucumber-oregano-chese recipe." (Apprentice 2)
Of course, I have to mention Apprentice, as this post started partially because of noticing these things in the game. I didn't want to bring a very long example, and I think this one demonstrates it quite well. It tells us that Willowbean has an annual soup contest, revealing some local history, that the master won it that year, and also references the player's experiences in the first game, where he

Spoiler

made that soup .

[close]

... "Mean to animals?"
"Oh no, I love animals! Once, when I was volunteering in an animal shelter..." ... (Grim Fandango)
A game theory discussion thraed by me would be incomplete without at least one mention of Grim Fandango, preferrably more . I am going to fully admit my bias towards this game. But I also believe that even someone objective will agree that this dialog tells us a lot about Meche's life, something which is unique in itself since she is a skeleton in the 8th underworld. We find out that she was a good person, who volunteered for many things, has probably never done anything wrong, and in this particular snippet, we learn of her love to animals.
I'll take this chance to mention that good, expressive voice acting can show a character's personality aswell, though it probably doesn't have much to do with history. However in this dialog, the strength of the voice acting enhances the meaning of the written text by far.

The Library in The Longest Journey contained many books and many things to research that tell us about Arcadia, Stark, and everything in between. I found them a very interesting read, and they made the whole fantasy world appear much more believable.

Here are a few theories I had as to ways character and world history is implemented in dialogs:

One theory I have is that developers add it on the fly, making a note of the idea possibly, for future use, but in truth just inventint that great-uncle Jerald while writing the conversation. This can be tricky cause it's a bit random, and you may never get the idea of adding that in. This is a quick way to give characters some depth though, in my opinion. For example, that off-the-top-of-my-head comment (a response to looking at a sign) could be very good at convincing the player that the main character has always had that great-uncle, and makes it seem like the character has a history. This way works better for humourous games than it does for serious ones, though it can probably be adapted to a serious game aswell.

The other theory I had for doing this was actually writing out a (relatively) complete history for (almost) every character, in this case with a family tree full of all sorts of quirky characters, and try to reference them in the game. Of course, I doubt you would think of a great-uncle who wears hats the shape of french fries or something absurd like that, so fitting it to your needs can be done. In more serious games however, having a solid history to shape personality and comments etc might be a good idea. Plus it must be fun, and probably encouraging, to have a document/biography of a character to read, or even to add with the game as an extra (only if there won't be sequels though, cause that could slightly ruin some of the tension or surprise). This goes more for history related to the game world than characters, since this may be more interesting to write and to read. Some people didn't like reading lots of documents and books and the diary in The Longest Journey, but I found it highly enjoyable, and would love to have the option to read a long imaginary history book about an adventure game world. It can be so much better than real history
I think Dave Gilbert said that he was spending more time fleshing out characters's family history in his game (Bestowers of Eternity?).

So, to the point, this thread is here to make you TALK! Share your opinons, ideas, theories and thoughts. I haven't been able to give as many examples as I wanted to, so please give any examples you think are relevant to the topic. Thanks for reading all that

Sub-Topic:
A rose by any other name...
...would smell as sweet, according to Shakespeare, but I think names in adventure games have more importance than they seem. This isn't entirely related to history, but it's something I've wanted to discuss, and doesn't really warrant a seperate thread. Names are supposedly given to characters by their parents, so in more serious games, but humorous games aswell, we may want to consider what kind of name the parents would give their child, and that has a lot to do with his family history. In truth though, it's the developer who names the character, and sometimes the name is just meant to be catchy, interesting, unusual (Guybrush anyone?), or may have come from the paint program the artist used if desperate (again, Guy(.)brush). The name Manny Calavera says something about the culture the game is based on, aswell as having a meaning (a calavera is a papier-mache skull used on the Day of Dead in mexican culture, if I recall correctly).

So, consider this, if you will, a sub-topic to the whole history issue.
Sorry for possibe overuse of the word 'history'.

I'm entering, don't worry . Just need a bit of time. Should be ready by tommorow, or the next day.

Yep, I agree, more serious games n serious topics is good. Make sure it doesn't turn into a joke due to unneccessary jokes and gags. A bit of appropriate/dark humor can still work well imo. The idea also sound very interesting. Maybe I'm just a sucker for time-travel ideas. Who is sent back in time though, the father or the son?

Hmm. Interesting. With medium security/cookie settings, but using the www.agsforums.com link, I was able to use the form. What i did before was click on the banner, which takes me to www.adventuregamestudio.com, where it doesn't work. Could this have something to do with it? Not being the same site, in a way?

Zootyfruit: Ideas of this sort, though not as complex as having NPCs make their own games, have passed through my mind, in all kinds of forms, but obviously they may be hard to realise. I hope to do soemthing like this one day.

bspeers, that sounds totally fucking awesome! I can't get over how awesome that is. It's so awesome, we need to invent a new word to describe it's awesomisity. It even drives a better car/aircraft/hovercraft than the Awesommobile!

Seriosuly, you, or someone else has got to make it!
I can see it now, the state of the art animations and cutscenes, the catchy music, the RatingMeter(tm) counting the Duck's rating, etc etc..

Ok, enough over-enthusiasm!
Btw blake, haven't seen you here in a while, where've you been? Or have I just been missing your posts?

Edit: I see no reason why this idea would suit RTS more than adventure. Adventures can have those kind of features and arcade sequences. That's what I call originality!

hehe

What I really meant, redruM, was that if people browse the games looking for a good medium length game for example, the ones that have been selected as Pick of the Month (and thus must be good games ) should have something written on them that brings that to player's attention.

Edit: Slightly off-topic, I just had a look at the website's games page, and tried clicking the add a game link, just to see the form as I've never seen it before (never added a game to the list I should really). That resulted in a message saying I need to be logged into the forums. I followed the link to the forums from the site instead of going right here like I usually do and logged in again, but returning to the 'add a game' page had the same result. Could it be that the website doesn't recognise me being logged in, or is it a cookie thing on my PC?
Edit2: I tried changing my settings to allow all cookies, and only that lowest security setting allowed me to get to the add a game form. Would there be a way for this part of the site to check forum login-ness?

That's assuming you go to the Pick of the month section to see them. I, for one, like browsing all the game lists alphabetically (btw, is there an option to view all games alphabetically or by release date without the sorting into small/medium/full/demo/etc categories?). On the other hand I also tend to download anything just to try it out, if I've decided to browse for games, so in my case it doesn't matter much.

CJ's way sounds good to me

I agree with most of what's been said here, this forum definetly needs new rules, to make it more appealing for everyone. MAGS games should be allowed to be posted in my opinion, but personally i wouldn't post them since they'd be so near completion they'll just be posted in the Completed forum soon after.
One thing I don't like is the idea or deleting threads, especcially those of completed games. Both the developers and the players may be interested in reading a GiP thread for a completed game much later on. Locking them 1 week or so after the game has been finished is a better idea in my opinion. As for cancelled games, if they were cancelled by the developer but the thread was legitimate and followed the rules, I think locking is enough, while if the thread didn't follow rules it should be locked and deleted after warning.

Just my 7 cents.

I had pretty much the same idea as to the obstacle. Good entry, Mephistophilis! Funny how combining the severed hand with the glove seems so natural

Good point. But since using: -'Bye mom.', exit clinique- for a puzzle isn't interesting, we'll have to think up obstacles for the kid .

In less obvious cases the problem should be clearer, though.

P.s. I'm taking a leaf out of Eggie's book and working on a complete game playthrough for this .