Messages

But shouldn't it be merged into the "Haiku" thread?

My Captain, but now we're entering very theoretical grounds. Of course, I greatly respect you approaching with suspicion things that are taken for granted, this is a noble and fruitful stance.

Let's start with this "freedom" you keep bringing up (although I was just proposing some - in my mind - beneficient borrowings from cRPG genre). Of course, it is and always will be just an illusion of "freedom of choice", limited by the things put in by the designer, or rather: freedom to use the tools provided by means of GUI, where the number of tools (GUI options) limits the said freedom.

What I'm saying is: in adventures, you give the tools but jump in all the time with "YOU CANNOT AND WILL NOT!"
In cRPGs, the player uses the tools how he/she fancies, which is not only more fair, but also demands more work from the designer (as I mentioned before, this is usually balanced with simpler graphics).

Let's say that RPGs are protestant whereas Adventures are catholic at heart: somebody pops in from time to time (not an author, and not the protagonist, some sort of a guardian spirit or a priest) and advises you how to play well (or just nothing happens, which is most often the case with AGS games).
[on a side note,  I prefer catholicism for its grandeur, bloodiness and style, but...]

Now, you might have noticed that it is the general trend in modern computer games that THE MORE IT RESEMBLES REALITY, THE BETTER. This applies to graphics, 3d sound, kazillion polygons, smoke and mist and realistic fire and what not.
Of course, nobody ever told us why a game should resemble reality. It's just something everybody takes for granted.
As for the freedom in exploration, though, and freedom to kill this good old mystic that is there to help you - I will still say that it enriches the gameplay and makes it more involving.
(by the way, "involving" is probably the reason behind this graphics' trend I described above - climbing the mountains in Gothic or wandering through one of its forests is an unforgetable experience)

Involving - because you feel the number of things that could have happened, even though you decided otherwise. Most people will spare the helpful mystic, but I just feel more interested when I know that I still can hack at him.
The second reason that "freedom" is important to a game is a marketing one - it's more likely you're going to replay the game, just to try and make things go slightly different.
But I value higher this feeling that this play isn't going to be safe, that I can screw it, ruin some NPCs "lives" if I go wrong, that this game is like a minefield of events that could have happened, even it they did not.

I rrreally like it, but I think there's something not right with the colours: with face, hair and background so bleak, the red of the kimono looks a bit out of place and stands out too much. You know I'm not trained in visual arts, this is just my impression.

Petter, what is this "Nolore"? You aren't lacking some lore by any chance?

Freedom in a game COULD be looked at as totally redundant.

Oh, I cannot agree more when it comes to the overall plot, but look how you get the same main story out of Torment no matter what's your character's alignment.

In Circuit's Edge - a really cool cyberpunk RPG - and in Neuromancer you could have installed "chips" in your character that allowed them to, for example, play music.
It was nice in CE how having different chips installed affected the main character's personality - he became paranoid, aggressive etc. according to the activated skill, a sort of a side effect.

It's very classy, but somehow I see this knight as a teenager or a midget. Too big head, probably?
Also, this gadget on his helmet looks rather uncomfortable, it's too long in my opinion.

There is one important consequence of allowing the player to choose to do any action they like with the player character - the game writer is no longer able to define the personality of the player character.

You have a very fine point, Nellie. Still, there are usually some safety measures: for example, if you decide to act like a bastard in Ultima, town guards (a very tough bunch) attack you all the time, so it's virtually impossible to finish the game. A game usually punishes you for deliberately playing against it and its story.

That's an interesting question as well: how many RPG players actually decide to play as extremely rotten bastards?

And Karimi, I absolutely cannot understand your comment about Fallout's graphics. I strongly doubt you can come up with or point at graphics better suiting it's gameplay. What more can you want?

I say, this poop is an impossible fellow.

Dude, what does your penis look like? Mine looks nothing like a thumb...

More like a pinky?
As a gentleman, I don't observe my body below waistline, thus I cannot make an actual observation.

A bit of hilarious Helloween trivia: in Poland everyone is sad on this day, thinks of his/her dead relatives and goes to the cemetery to sit by the grave, lights a candle, remembers good times and cries. Ha ha.

I truly understand how having a team is a tremendous help when making a game (after working alone on one title for three years), but I don't really think that "let's make guilds!" should be presented as something everyone should do. It's not a thing that should be anounced on the forums as a general trend - you want to start a team/guild just do it, it's not like you need anybody's approval, n'est-ce pas?

This said, I'd love to work with some more people (especially artists, as this is the skill I'm most lacking) on future projects... as long as there's place for my nifty Terminus Games intro somewhere in the beginning...

I can't believe how bad artists you all are.
Your thumbs look like penises, all of them.
Even Eric's.

Oh I know, Erico, it's "lost in Las Vegas", but I got irritated with it because they had this idiotic idea of making the actual time count, and at a point you die just because of taking too long. The same was in Uninvited, but as this game reeked atmosphere, I liked it much more (although never could defeat zombies in the garden...)
I never played Shadowgate, though. Isn't it by Legend? I've never met this kind of inventory in a Legend game.

Eh, but everything starts with talking, you pragmatist!!1!!

As for the philosophy you described, Edmundo, some time ago I would quarrel that without this kind of control, the designer would be unable to make a good story... but, as Torment proves, it's more than possible.

Well, I chose a wrong title for this thread, it should read: what RPG features I would like to see in adventure games. I thought of changing it, and making you all dunces, but hey, let's play fair.

And, GG, I don't agree with your views on NPCs being too similar in ways of graphics. They are usually very small so we cannot see their faces anyway, and their personality reveals itself in dialogues. Notice how there's lot of diverse NPCs in Fallout or Torment: if they had to look different, this number would be most probably reduced to cut down costs on artists.

To sum up, what RPG features I would like to see in adventure games:

- The GUI controls cannot be overriden by the designer. No "I don't steal from innocents". Player wants to do it, so the main character does it. It gives a fantastic feeling of being free to experiment with the game world - like finding ways to kill Lord British in Ultima 6.

- NPCs having their agenda, like in Ultima 5. On set times of the day and night they breakfast, go to work, dine, go to a pub, sup, and go to bed.

- Dressing your main character!!! Oh I love it. And each clothing you wear somehow has an impact on the game (in traditional RPGs, it's usually combat skills).

- Shopping. It's so much fun when suddenly you get some money and go to shop to buy this beautiful Avenger machine gun.

Usually, PC RPGs had too simple plots and characters to make full use of these features. Fallout and Torment, however...

Well I think that Black Dahlia is still a gem (except for the octagonal maze) mainly due to it original setting. I dig Art Deco.

I wanted to type that I don't have any problems with carrying too much items; then I remembered how Gabriel took a looong pole from Africa to New Orleans, carrying it in his pants, and I changed my mind.

The slickest inventory, which was fun to play with, was in a c-64 adventure game Deja Vu. Each object that was a container (starting with your detective coat) had its own window. It's a pity they didn't make it important, as it had absolutely no impact on the game whether you kept your pistol in the open or in your coat.
This game rocked, anyway.

Yes, atmospheric and the music is nice. Unfortunately, I got an impression that the creator got a little bit bored with it near the end (which also comes much too soon).

Czesc Ola! 

Milo powitac kogos z Polski... bylo jeszcze 2-3 facetow w ciagu mojej kadencji, ale sie zmyli... powodzenia z gra, wyglada swietnie!

Translation:
There was an earthquake in Poland and my aunt lost 30 pounds due to severe fright.

I'm not sure how a Dungeons & Dragons-like RPG could really build to a dramatic ending, with every element of the plot being so flexible.

Aha, but this is a great question: how they manage that? Fallout, for example, made you choose sides as the story unveiled and faced you with moral dilemmas. You could even marry a girl and then sell it to slavers if you liked. You could absolutely choose to be a bad, good or indifferent guy. At the end it presented you with a slideshow showing the future outcome of your decisions in the game's world, and what happened with more important NPCs.
I need to think more how they pull off with ending being dramatic without ruining the player's illussion of free will - but rest assured that the Torment's ending beats in emotional aspect every other game I've played. I know people who have cried at that point.