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Messages - Goldmund

#541
General Discussion / Re:I LOVE ERIC FEURSTEIN
Wed 12/11/2003 02:48:41
Eric is ok, but a bit too chubby for my tastes.
#542
Because he's a friggin snobbish fascist TOTALITARIAN.
#543
Rather generic story and idea, but immensely cool and smooth in graphics and technical resorts.
You're obviously a talented designer, it would be great if you didn't resign from making games.
#544
Dave. Top notch.
Another game in the glorious tradition established by Ratracer, the path I'm also trying to follow.
I especially loved the evil carousel element - it is a masterful touch, you made the player feel scared and intrigued with very subtle means.

And - heh - how far has Griff gone from his famous poseresque drives through new york looking for eyes of jade sphinx...
#545
I liked the backgrounds a lot. They provided a powerful atmosphere with simple means.

I didn't really like the plot and dialogues, which were rather stiff. Those two components left me with the impression that the creator really wanted to produce something moving and I could clearly feel this effort, whereas - to be honest - I also felt that the person who wrote the story didn't have enough life experience to touch such serious subjects. When the golden locket heart appeared I felt as if this was some kind of Harlequine turned into a game.

I am harsh, but I also believe that it's better to fall when trying to achieve heights than stand firmly on a 10cm hill.
#546
Night of the Iguana!!!!

My favourite film ever.
Maybe it's because of some personal reasons - if I believed in God, I would be a priest by now.


And I also liked Twelve Angry Men a lot.
#547
4. HOW?

In this section I'll try and finally provide a draft of the list of guidelines for giving personality to designers. Please try and give own ideas.

a) consistency
All work may be lost if you don't keep your character's personality consistent. If a person suddenly starts to swear, be sure to know WHY he/she does so. Don't make a heart-broken girl strike a wild and krazy pun just because you find it funny; of course, the girl may try to be humorous to overcome her sadness, but you have to know this and make sure players will know this as well. For example, make the pun really lame (shouldn't be hard, most puns are).

b) mystery
Sometimes, a mystery in the protagonist's past is a great incentive for players. In the opening scene of Dark Hero Demo, the protagonist stands on a roof and tears a photo of a girl without saying a word. This very powerful scene instantly makes us try and guess what is the photo's story, of course unhappy love affair instantly comes to mind, but you may also play on that and reveal it to be something else later on.
An NPC also can be mysterious - a person who shows here and there and the player knows nothing about them awakens the interest, but to make it work the designer should give info about other characters - otherwise the mysterious person would be just another lazily-designed NPC.

c) peripheral information

Characters aren't computers (well, most of them aren't) and they aren't supposed to provide information without any sign of affect. You really have to do better than "Bring me the cheese, and I will give you the key" or "I am a priest."
Try and fit into a text more than just immediate information needed to finish the game.
"Who are you?"
"My father always wanted to have a priest in the family. Keeps down the cost on marriages, you see."


d) unneccessary (???) stuff

Well, the point is that it IS neccessary to try and make characters do something MORE than is needed by the plot. If you need to interrogate a woman suspect, instead of going to her flat and talking with her sitting on a sofa, make her tend flowers in a glasshouse. The protagonist of Dark Hero didn't really and pragmatically need to walk onto the roof to tear the photo; neither the plot of Mourir En Mer needed the protagonist to be afraid of a toy horse in his loft - the horse didn't play any role in the plot nor puzzles, yet this brilliant touch added TONS of emotional impact on the player.
So, don't be overly practical with your characters' behaviour. People are crazy.

e) aesthetical preferences

Wandering around people's houses gives great opportunity to show the aesthetical likes and dislikes of the protagonist. "What is it with morons and Van Gogh's sunflowers?", says Donna. Pictures, fancy chairs, music records - these tell a lot about inhabitants and also a lot about protagonist through reaction to "look" commands.

f) flaws

Aye, Joker was so much more interesting and fun to watch than the stupid Batman.
People are imperfect and it is so dead boring to watch an ideal Avatar do his lofty deeds.
Gabriel Knight, Larry Laffer, Manny, April Ryan... notice how all the famous protagonists had some funny quirks, weaknesses - some  had to be overcome to fulfill their quest, some were simply there to give them a more human feel.

g) aim and incentive

This is one of the iron principles of screenwriting; when we were giving our scripts to the tutors at the film school, the first question was: what the protagonist wants to achieve?
Now, I don't agree that it's neccessary in movies, but as games demand some kind of action and plot - protagonists must have an aim and some damn good reasons to pursue this aim. Must, ya hear me?
Don't expect the player to feel for the protagonist who is a plumber, enters a house, sees an unknown person lying in a pool of blood and then he sets on a quest to find a murderer!
There are lots of aims and incentives to choose from. Fame and fortune, revenge, some peace at last, need to know the truth, staying alive, getting THE boy or THE girl...

h) inner change

This is a neat device to make the player feel he/she just played through a story with some importance. Characters change throughout the course of the game. McCoy learns how to pity his prey. Gabriel Knight sees that there's more to life than chasing skirts. Manny finds the ability to love someone again.
Again, an example from film industry: it is said that there was a producer who only watched the beginning and the ending of a film to say if the product's good or not. He simply checked whether the protagonist changed him/herself.

i) contrast, surprise

There are some things that people take for granted. When they see a hell's angel they suspect that he's a manly bloke, who cherishes mainly football, farting and fornication. Surprise them! It's a great way to keep the interest in the plot. Let the hell's angel paint in secrecy. Let the good police commissioner take dope. Let the nun be a great kung-fu fighter (she studied it before joining the convent and suddenly in a dangerous situation she shows her abilities).
Just don't get TOO absurd. Remember that if the players feel there is reason behind everything you offer, then they know you treat them with respect and gave them a thought-out, polished, good, deep, interesting ADVENTURE GAME.

That's it from me. Please add your own ideas for guidelines or comment on mine! :)
#548
3. MEANS

In this section I'll take a look at the means with which the personality is manifested in games. The reason for this list is that one should remember to make characters differ in those aspects.

a) look messages and text responses
This is the way through which we get to know the protagonist.
"This is a door" will not do, unless we're playing Terminator.
"Beyond this door lies the best of worlds" whereas in truth what lies beyond the door is a dirty street of crime, or "This door reminds me of my brother - won't shut if you don't kick it" tells us much more about the protagonist. In first example we see that he/she is a bitter person, not devoid of some sort of black humour. The second one tells us that he/she has a brother, he/she is rather cruel and doesn't like the mentioned sibling - and enjoys smart-ass comments. Usually, the more multi-level information is fit into a line of text, the more interesting the line becomes. Designers should work with language because when the player reads text that has something more to it than immediate information about the state of reality - that this is a door - then his/her intelligence is at work and we give him/her a more rewarding experience.

b) dialogues
Way of speaking and treating others. This works "better" with NPCs, or: we have more control over this with NPCs, because usually the player may choose dialogue options for the protagonist, thus deciding of his/her dialogue preferences. Still, the designer has impact on the options provided for the protagonist and their language.
Slang or high-brow, swearing or not, intelligence or dumbness, political views - this all may be conveyed through dialogues, but if the language you're making your game with is not your native language, this is the hardest part to do well.
Biographical information can also be disclosed through dialogues, but we should avoid everyone telling the protagonist stories about their childhood - it's better to use elipsis, slips of tongue, allussions.
"Wow, jacuzzi!"
"Yeah, when me and my brothers wanted jacuzzi we farted in our bathtub."

works better than:
"Wow, jacuzzi!"
"We didn't have jacuzzi, because we were very poor".

The first example, apart from conveying the same information as the latter, manifests the temper of the character and gives the same information in a more interesting way (here: a joke). The second one, however, also has one strength: it is very simple and may be considered more moving.
Usually, you have to remember that when you talk about something hard and painful, it's better to use simple words, as it's more powerful. "My heart is broken, my tears flow every night because my wife has departed me and left me on this plane of pain" is absolutely beaten in emotional impact by "My wife is dead."

c) physical appearance, actions
Or, the graphical representation. The basest trait, as we are talking about graphic adventures. It is simply what the character looks like and basing on that, players imagine his/her personality. A person in black leather jacket and sunglasses instantly and stereotypically gets this "tough" image (of course, we can - and should - play with these stereotypes; on that I'll write in a later section).
The actions that don't need words also fit here. A character starts to cry. Runs away. Walks funny. Drinks alcohol. All reactions without words may tell us a lot about characters, but it is also the hardest aspect for amateur designers - doing this right demands lots of good animation frames.
#549
2. WHAT?

So, what constitutes a character's personality?

a) biography
What is the background history of the character. Childhood, love affairs, jobs (or lack of them), social class, education. This information is disclosed through look messages (if the protagonist knows the person), dialogues, monologues, reading diaries, and in the case of the protagonist's biography it may be provided straightforward (introductory message, his/her thoughts).

b) behaviour (broad sense)
Way of speaking, temper. Makes characters different. May be psychologically deduced from the biography. Characters may be naive, agressive, calm, introvertic, brave, lazy - this is the meat of their personality. The temper manifests itself through dialogues (consider those "bye" messages: "Fare well!", "See you!", "Finally!") and reactions to game's events. Generally, this is the most important aspect of characters' personality, as it is immediately experienced by the player through interacting with them.
#550
This topic has been dealt with several times on the forums, but it never got the full scope it deserves. It's rather basic, but I thought it would be nice to start from simple things - who knows, maybe we'll make a Designer's Compendium thanks to those threads? Shall you  find this topic not interesting, I still have several good subjects in plans.

GIVING PERSONALITY TO CHARACTERS

1) WHY?

The first question that needs to be answered is:
Do characters need personality?
It seems rather silly, but one should be always suspicious about things taken for granted. So, do deep characters enrich our enjoyment of a game, do they make the gameplay more interesting?

protagonist
One can argue that when the protagonist is a persona too specified in his/her tastes, traits, ideas etc. it is harder for the player to identify with him/her, simply because of differences that may arise (political beliefs, sexual preferences etc). Also, when the protagonist's personality is unrevealed players are more likely to impose own ideas about his/her psyche.
Let's take it as a matter of personal preference, then. I must say that although I enjoyed Pleurghburg:Dark Ages I was absolutely indifferent to the fate of Jake McUrk (this game may be considered a negative example in this debate, it paradoxically being both the well-deserved classic of amateur adventure games and a game with extremely bland protagonist at the same time). Whether it was caused by the fact that no signs of his personality were provided, or I simply failed to impose any imagined ones on the character, may be disputed.
I'm far from saying that a protagonist with no personality ruins a game. Dreamweb was a great experience and at the same time gave us a character with no personality at all - its atmosphere was enough. Mourir En Mer, on the other hand, with its introduction of a unique (handicapped) protagonist instanly caught my attention from the first room right to the (very moving) ending, all this thanks to the protagonist's personal history and dreams.
All in all, whether protagonists need personality seems to be a matter of preference. Personally, I think that even a game with simplistic plot is much better when the protagonist is an interesting person.

NPCs
NPCs in an adventure game absolutely need personality. This kind of games is story-driven and there is no story without characters. Simplistic NPCs make plot simplistic.
It seems that it is easier for designers to make NPCs interesting persons than to do the same with the protagonist. For example, the (mad?) inventor in P:DA was a much more interesting person than the protagonist - he had a passion, lived in recluse etc.
I feel that the reason for this is that a) it is HARDER to weave a story around a person who has very specified personality (same in films: all those sidekick characters - Notting Hill being the first example that comes to my mind - are much more interesting than the protagonist); b) when writing a story, people tend to make protagonist similar to them - and as they know themselves very well, they also know that no person is THIS and not THAT, that inside we aren't a TYPE at all; thus, no strong (ie: a bit simplified) personality is given to protagonists.
#551
AGS Games in Production / Re:Shadowplay
Mon 01/09/2003 17:34:51
 :o
the screens look terrific, GG!  l love the style of drawing on the dialog one! (although Donna has the same haircut...hmmm...)

I'm really, really waiting for this game! I'm sure it will be great, what with the real research... damn!
#552
General Discussion / Re:Hello again AGS !
Mon 01/09/2003 17:20:19
#553
Ha! La Lore finally! I've seen your photos, as Nacho couldn't contain himself and simply HAD to boast with you. :D
Welcome to the forums, I hope we meet one day on Irc and have some opportunity to talk dirty chat about spanish history!!
#554
GarageGothic: Thanks, I'm sure I'll think of something.

As for prescriptive vs descriptive it's rather a matter of singular posts, because a discussion's subject can be always treated in both ways.
For example:

Subject: Minority Characters in AG

-descriptive answer:
Generally I find minority characters in AGs not very interesting. They're shallow and stereotypical (think Phantasmagoria2!) But it may be due to the society's line of thought, which usually takes for granted that gay men.... (and here 200 words more; I'm guilty of this approach)

-prescriptive:
One should avoid stereotypical portrayals of homosexual people in games, in order to enrich the general message. Don't make your gay wear flowery shirts and walk funny! I think it would be best if his sexual preference is revealed as a "surprise" for the player. How to do it? Here is how:...

The descriptive approach is great for scholars etc., but I think that as designers we could get more advantage from the second one.
#555
Adventure Related Talk & Chat / Re:TUTOR ME!
Tue 26/08/2003 14:24:12
Make a tutorial, Evil. I like to look at tracing, it reminds me of french comics and the style isn't widely used in games (apart from Uncertainty Machine).
#556
As much as instant deaths may be irritating, sometimes trying to avoid them is just stupid.
Longest Journey is a good example: there were two dangerous situations, one is when April is in the house of the Witch and the second one is when she's being chased by a scary mutant who does NOTHING when he catches her.
I mean, you could easily go and make you a ham sandwich and then call your mother during those scenes, they were so unbeliveably harmless.
I guess they tried to raise the atmosphere by music and scary noises, but still...
#557
This is a side-comment of sorts: we're having a great discussion and all, but maybe we can make the next GTD more prescriptive? I asked for this before and here I am, writing 10-pages long abstract articles about the way people perceive reality :D
#558
QuoteI think the main character could do something like walk into an instant death and then realise he/she was dreaming about it happening, and thus it serves as a warning not to do it.

This is the way they made it in Tex Murphy:Overseer, i.e. at the point of death we see Tex telling the story to his lady, and then she goes like: "Oh no! You're lying!", and he is like "Haha, bimbo, sure thing, if I did that dumb thing I wouldn't be here with you!" and here we go again.
Which didn't really help with the general suckiness of the game.

I think that the problem behind your idea, DGM, is that it's kind of unrewarding to the designer - especially, an amateur designer. If I create something, I want it to be seen - and not evaded easily by not falling down that silly cliff.
And what would you do if the player failed to solve the second, harder puzzle after failing the first, easy one? Would you present him/her with a third one, hardest of all, or would the player be just stuck? If so, what's the difference?
#559
The dialog was indeed highly amusing, but it lacked references to Illuminati.
Also, I have Cakewalk and may help you in this testing times. Send me the wrk by email (blazed@o2.pl)
#560
Wouldn't it be nice if from time to time we got mad again and tried to make this UberGame? Something like seasonal rabies.
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