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Of course it's all opinion, OS Squinky, but would you say the opinion that a game that tries to mislead about it's qualities (fake choices, fake open-endedness) is a game that stands to be criticized? That's what I'm saying.

If this discussion deteriorates to - as it was threatened -  "that's my opinion, that's your opinion, let's agree to disagree" whereas I don't mind, it'll be a bit of a shame. Nobody is authority on what good game design is, but most people can discuss this and agree on several threads without the knee-jerk 'omg opinion!' thing having to come to play.

About people not knowing any better. A lot of people have only played console games, and those sure are based on different game design philosophy (or philosophies) than the personal computer counterparts, therefore it's safe to say that someone who has grown up on Dragon Quest/Final Fantasy series and has never played Ultima games or Magic Candle games or roguelikes is not making a very educated point when he's saying 'these are the best stories in games, ever!' Sure, it's his opinion, but it's an uninformed opinion, and I think this uninformed state encourages the market to remain mediocre.

One, you half-jokingly suggest I am emotionless when it comes to games. I am not and I don't think there's any point to defend such a thing in detail. It's just rude of you to suggest this, as if there can be no other reasons I am not enjoying fake choices in games.

Two, you interpret my position to mean that I enjoy the result of a game and not the process of it. The whole point in that sense, was that when a game makes promises about what it offers, like oh, say, branching path gameplay (do you want to help me? YES/NO <- suggests there's different paths, the extent of which can be scrutinized and discussed later, from Blade Runner multipath to FoA 3 paths to whatever. There's something the to discuss, not just a FAKE CHOICE) I will appreciate it on how much it delivers on what it boasts, not what thinly-veiled illusions are presented. This is not an extreme position. If the game says '50 hours of completely linear gameplay, where choices are fake and all the key elements are cliche'ed to death' then YES, if you say what I just described is a 'genre', then if I bought that and complained, you'd be right in saying that a non-fan should not criticize. But as I said, I like rpgs, and deny that horrid thing I described are it. I've been roleplaying probably before you had your first copy of windows and I do appreciate the genre for what it can offer. It's not that I am not a fan of the whole genre, it's that I have opinions as to what is a good example of it. So check your angle of 'lol if you don't like rpgs, why talk about them?'

Yes, in the end as long as people buy final fantasy games, more will come out. I am commenting on how sad the situation is that people ARE buying these games and think them good and do not know any better.

It's fine game design.

No, no it's not. Not in anyone's book if they're sane.

The problem is that you're not receptive to it, you're not the sort of person these games are designed for.

I agree I'm not cut out for jrpgs, I was when I was 12 and didn't know better/had enough time for them and an overactive imagination. I'm honest enough to admit these games, as many hours as they took from me in my youth, are NOT good games. It's one thing to add to the games yourself because you're young and bored, or teenaged and lonely, and another thing to proclaim the games good because you did this. A game of connect 4 with a friend can become the most epic battle if you two are bored enough and feel like blowing it up.

Your whore/temptress analogy is flawed because in your example it's not that you were teased and eventually you got what you were to get, it's that you were teased and eventually got fuck all. When women do this to me I punch them in the face.

If you choose the former, the story continues on as normal and Katt goes on to try and convince Tiger she isn't in love with him on her own. If you choose to fight him, you er, fight him. Now, there's NO way to beat him. It's not written into the script, he has unlimited HP. But I tried SO GOD-DAMNED HARD to kick that son of a bitch' ass. I would reload my game every time I died, go off and level, have another go at it... "Maybe he has like, 99,999 HP or something" I would tell myself. In the end, I would concede defeat and the story would continue on the same path.

Now, I could say that it was cruel of the programmers to put that little path in, especially with the added frustration of an unbeatable fight. You could say that there was no point, and technically, there wasn't. Katt didn't warm up to you anymore because of your efforts to win her heart.

Sure, this is exactly a great example of awful game design.

I didn't say all rpgs are this or that. I said some japanese are such. I have an extensive rpg background, some of my favourite gaming experiences were with rpgs and computer rpgs such as Ultima Underworld, A.D.O.M and Magic Candle. I've played a lot of computer games, and sadly, a lot of japanese rpgs because either I didn't know any better at the time than to waste gaming hours level grinding for some bullshit game, or because they simply were pretty enough to warrant the grind.

Terranigma, for all it's charms (gameplay and graphics, mostly) didn't have what I would call a charismatic main character. The issue is with the overused child chosen one cliche. It's been done so much, if someone's going to do it, they better give it a different spin. Now, I didn't finish Terranigma (gave up when animals started talking) but I didn't see much variation of the same cliche themes as far as I got. But it's also been a while.

'making your own story' is a copout, in a story-driven medium, in my opinion. If you did that, awesome for you, you had the mindset for it, but most of these games didn't give me much incentive to fill in the blanks because they're so formulaic. I *did* fill in the blanks when I played say, Dreamweb because it's so idiosyncratic, you can't help but think about Ryan's life and whatnot. Just reading the manual blows your mind, really. The game opens with a goregeous overhead screen of you in your sleeping girlfriend's room, a fan above you spinning, so serene and beautiful, an oasis from the otherwise ugly game setting. You have to wonder, what happened last night, was it a good night, did she sleep well? Should I disturb her? Should I quietly leave?

I've never had that with 'LOL YOU'RE THE CHOSEN ONE, HERE IS AN ENCHANTED SWORD' japanese rpgs. They're just stale storylines, with little new or exciting about them, and it seems they don't mind being that at all. Fantasy Quest 32 is like 31 or 30 before it, just with new graphics, interchangable characters and let's say, a new battle system. Fans seem content with this, publishers seem content with not taking any chances. What you get? Empty games.

You say FF 4 has an 'operatic' plot, I say you haven't seen opera (for good or worse). You say Breath of Fire II had an impressive storyline (I've finished BoF and BoF II) and I say it's the absolute in cliche overwritten colossal storyline. I know, tastes... but still, we should be able to recognize good stories in games when we see them, and not settle for mediocrity just because of nostalgia or because that's all we've played.

Time does not exist.

It's not about repetition being bad. It's repetition of what, that's the issue. Metal Gear games are essentially the same thing, honed better each time. But boy, characterization? Spades. I severily dislike Snake for being for going '...huh?' all the time and generally being boneheaded, but they pull it off: I dislike him as a CHARACTER, not for lacking character. He's like a big baby that only knows how to kill, and we've seen him grow from game to game, enriching to his utilitarian understanding of ethics slowly with absolutes he picks up just to keep sane as he starts to realize what the patriots are and what they're doing... generally, a job very well done on that end.

japanese-styled rpgs usually have the ultimate in stiff storylines. There's actually no choices of importance to be made in most of them, no way to define your character besides choosing to wield that sword or this sword. You go there, then there, this triggers that, a million random encounters on the way. On-rails gameplay of the worst kind. They're basically dumb lineart adventure games with fights.

I remember this very lucidly, I was playing one of these retarded rpgs and at some point the game tells me 'do you want to help him?' and I was confronted with a YES/NO option. I chose no. The game then tells me 'oh come on, why wouldn't you want to help?' and gives me the original 'choice' again.

your distinction is one between role-playing and personal projection.

Early sierra games were essentially personal projection because a very generic background was given, larry wants to have sex, roger is a space janitor, graham needs to walk around in fantasyland and get killed by sliding rocks or gnomes like an idiot and so on. The characters never spoke out loud. The genesis of adventure games is after all, paper and pencil rpgs.

Lucasarts did the opposite approach, with defined characters, not avatars.

A detailed character can still make a person connect with them, in fact this is most usually the case, if the writing is good and you can empathize with what's going on. Just like with a good book or movie, the threads that are essentially the same in all men are the ones that make us feel this connection.

Chrono Trigger and Final Fantasy VII didn't have characters, or stories for that matter. The most basic and overused cliches, in a row, 350 times in the duration of the game. It amazes me how low the standard must have become if people say FF VII is the best story-driven game they've played, or they connect with the hollow puppet that is Cloud.

biothlebop: I liked your first entry very much when I first saw it because I had doubts anyone would do anything interesting with the page, originally. It was nice how this started out with a daring entry. The last panel made me laugh out loud too.

Haddas: This was one of the literal uses of the knife setup, where a twist in attempted at the end, and for what it is, it works pretty well. You did better later on.

voh: the "<3" panel put me off, and the O RLY thing also, I don't mind the nonsensical approach generally but those things kinda ruined this one for me.

eric: besides stealing gore's opening lines, I enjoyed your comic. I think you're the only one besides voh to have the roach talk?

gore: I laugh every time I see the +10 XP!! panel. This is easily one of my favourites. Great use of the expression. Somehow seeing the woman say 'noobs' amuses me a lot.

Unilin: this is probably the best 'straight' setup of the lot, better written than Esseb's cult entry, and uses the last three panel twist the best. Easily in my top three, and besides it and Pete's below the probable winners if we were still doing the winning thing.

Farlander: this is I guess some inside joke referring to you staying at Grunds? As such, I can't really comment.

Pete: this is one of the best, the panel centered on her butt accompanied by 'ASS!' 'BUT!' is brilliant, and the dialogue is very natural generally. The woman is a bitch in this which is very fitting to my original idea about the whole situation, and the end setup where he proves he can kill by killing a little bug is excellent. Probably the best entry in my opinion, and I'm really jealous I didn't think of this to put it in the paper.

Grund: it's pretty clear you changed the approach midway, but I like how you're the first ot capitalize on the -unintentionally freudian, on my part- placement of the knife in the first of the last three panels.

Becky: pawsies! This comic irritates me because she basically blames him for everything and I want to punch her. I understand the guy's frustration on the end, but it kinda falls apart when you think he gave her a knife with which she would kill herself. She's obviously not the suicidal type. Bitch.

Fuzz: this was so 'obvious' that at first I didn't get it. The writing's great, great pace too, I just had a little 'huh, what? so he bought the knife to kill the roach? um' thing going on, probably my own problem. One of the better entries.

Corey:

Zooty: this was quite witty. Some of the text strains to go with the pictures which I guess was the whole challenge of the compo. The running joke is good, but the end is uneventful, not capitalizing on the kill-roach scenario.

Chrille: another great entry. The whole 'too slow' thing was great, the most limp attempt at assassination ever put to comics. The usage of the roach death was great too.

Ishmael: a competent usage of the end twist, the writing suffers a bit, overall pretty good. 'what kind of wildreness is out there' doesn't work at all, though.

Esseb: one of the best of this compo. The writing's pretty sparse, but it's ok. The twist is handled beautifully, him killing the bug both out of frustration and in the whole reincarnation theme. Beautiful, and another I wish I could go back in time and steal. boy, wouldn't you look stupid posting my own entry then, huh!

biothlebop again: This was weaker than the other one, good writing, though. Absurdity is good.

Visti: the end punchline is too much text I think... some of the writing could be refined a lot, as could the pacing.

Tuomas: this was actually pretty competent aside from the problem of the overexposition in the last three panels. We can figure this stuff out on our own without them being outlined to us, that's the fun with comics.

SSH: friendship bracelet

SpacePirateCaine: one of my favourite entries too. You make cycling sound like such an omnious, cutthroat affair. I find the setup both absurd and believable at the same time, which is an awesome thing to pull off. Great writing, the twist at the end hangs, but this is almost good enough for me to not care.

progz: as I don't get the quote at all, your entry doesn't do anything for me. I don't see the point of using a whole comic to make a pop culture reference.

chicky: this was fun. Besides the annoying font, the writing is ellyptical enough to suggest realistic speech which was good. The end alteration is both horrifying and hilarious. great. This marks the point where everybody starts to experiment with the format more than just the text (besides Las' entry which was very hardcore for reasons discussed further below).

Ivy: this was a contender to win as well, great writing, good and original usage of the dude's small speech bubbles, the twist is good, I really like this on the whole. Subtle but funny, nothing dramatic, a lot of stuff implied and left to the reader's imagination.

Haddas again: I loved this. Experiemental silent film style, nothing happens! This is great because when you have so little to go on, small things like the girl closing her eyes find new and 'heavy' significance. I was expecting someone to do a silent comic, but this was worked enough to not be just that. Great.

CJ: I find it awesome you did one of those. But I also realize why you never made an adventure game using AGS now!

biothlebop once more: I laughed at the gimmick when I first saw it. So I guess this entry did it's job.

Tiki: the facial hair was funny, not much else going on.

Limping: if this was one of the first entries it would rate better in my head than it does on page 3. It's a pretty straightforward setup, the twist in the end kinda works. Too understated for it's own good, probably. But then, who am I to talk? my punchline was "ok"...

biothlebop returns: This is brilliant. If only the helmet matched the art style more, this would easily be my favourite of the art-manipulation versions. Still, the last panel makes me laugh every time.

rharpe: oh oh I get it. debug! Only one question remains!

oranges: this is great for three reasons. First it's written very well, second, it's HOTT. Third, because it's page 3 and almost nobody is doing non-art-manipulation entries, most think the jokes have been made. This was smart and funny, works every angle the comic has going for it, and is original without changing the art. Easily one of my late favourites.

Skurwy: the thing I like the most about your entry is the font and text placement

nihilyst: I found this good overall, kinda strained to make the setup work. Somehow everybody that made the girl philosophise kinda lose me because I find the woman in the comic very annoying and quite unlike the person to have deep insightful things to say. Pete and oranges captured her best in that sense. Unilin gets away with the drama queen I'm going to kill myself thing exactly because she's still annoying about it and we can't sympathize.

Abisso: I don't have much to say. This one was pretty far-fetched for a straight scenario. The nice thing is that the end twist is ignored, and a new one is introduced basically at the panel where he hands him the knife back.

Pablo: oh you made the roach talk too! I saw this one coming, but still I found it funny, and generally well-written. Nice.

Helm: there's such a thing as doing too little in a comic, helm. Don't hide behind the claims of understatement. The characterization works, but the whole premise is kinda marred by just being too... little of anything, I guess. Your entry matches the expressions and the art generally the best, however. I wonder why.

iamus: some of your text is obscured by the head of the dude on one panel, is this intentional? I don't know if the text there changes the comic much significantly. I found the writing a bit tiresome on this one, and besides her being clearly insane I don't see what else your entry is supposed to be doing.

biothlebop and robin: my spoon is too big

gore unlimited: this was excellent again. One of the more inventive art-manip entries, still depends on good writing. I liked this a lot. If you're gonna force someone to read downwards though, mark the connectors better than you did.

steve: double whammy! For a straight-text entry, this is suprizingly good this late in the compo. I liked this a lot.

biothlebop begins: this was probably my least favourite of yours. The end gag is ok, but it isn't foreshadowed in any way. Absurd shifts are cool, but I'm sure you could have done more with this.

biothlebop and the masters of the universe: wonderfully metacontextual. The beginning of the end for this compo. I adore how he just steps up and leaves. This couldn't win on it's own, but if say, the entries were collected and published in a fanzine or something, this entry would be the cherry on top, really. We took it a bit further on the end, but it ends here, really.

SmootH: I am not one of the 3-4 people.

Grape: this is a variation of a lot of themes in this compo, as such, it would only rise above if it was written very well. It's not, but it's not bad. You suffer from telling too much with the 'the hitman!' thing at the end too. It's not needed, we can infer as much on our own.

biothlebop: this surprised me for how well it worked and how subtle the art manip was. If only the eye panel matched the art style of the rest of this. Funny and smartass-y, very good.

If you listen to Staind and Live, I doubt Meshuggah will be of much interest to you.

Well, that's a relief. The practice of using words to teach someone that words are useless does make me suspicious, after all.

as suspicious as socrates saying 'all I know is that I know nothing'.

all the people who have major regrets about their lives want the rewind time power.

No more entries will be accepted.

Fuzz, just looking? Wouldn't you like to visit?

My understanding of the history is that because manga was all black-and-white, inking hair became a real pain.  Everyone has black hair, making a lot of black ink.  For simplicity, artists began leaving that area blank.

No, sorry. This is incorrect. Invest some time in studying what rasterized comic tone is and how the almost industrialized application of such in japanese comics makes the situation you describe an improbability. The quantity of ink isn't an issue really, because japanese comics are 20% ink, 80% comic tone. If someone inks the outline of the hair and doesn't feel like filling it in, they can (and did) use comic-tone in about 10 seconds and move on.

If there is truth to the western-influenced colour of hair, it should be discussed in a different context than the technical.

Tezuka clearly stated that the big eyes he helped make famous in the medium were directly influenced by Disney, for example. Maybe a similar situation occured with hair?

I was semi-joking about her lying. I'm sure she believes her words to be valid as much as anyone else... All this is dependent on linguistic mechanisms that are very inexact and subjective, really. In the end I'm not telling you anything, nor do I think existentialism can be aritculated convincingly. This is an outlet for my own mental masturbation, you see, and I do not really seek to direct you in your life.

The only safe assumption I am willing to make and I make constantly, is that which invalidates language and these sets of tools we use so wrongly: what is the nature of knowledge? What is belief and what is 'truth'? Epistemologically challenging the foundations of communication is my only valid point. I am basically saying "you think you know, but you don't. I don't. We discuss because it's fun, not because it leads to truth. Experience cannot be articulated, it is personal and the only vital thing."

But you see, people only tell you to live in the moment when good things happen to you. What if you're at a point in your life where you're lonely and heartbroken? Should you live in the moment then? Huh? HUH?

Well, I suppose you can, but then all you'll do is write angsty poetry all day... which is fun for awhile, but gets old quickly.

Yes. Live everything. The good and the bad. Emotional pain is only useful as something that has ended, I know. But this is a matter of fortitude, eventually. If you're scared to live the moment because the moment might turn ugly, then you shouldn't live at all.

I've come to realize opinions, words, the illusion of progress means very little. There's LIVING, and there's downtime (I am currently experiencing emotional downtime myself). We are animals that grow easily bored, so we make of the downtime the best we can, but the set of skills you develop during downtime (mental masturbation like rationalization, abstract connection of disparate event for fun, solving causal chain problems and the like) shouldn't impair you in enjoying a beautiful night spent with someone you care for, a nice movie, watching dusk break, playing with a cat, taking a deep breath of nothing and realizing that this is pretty awesome in the end.

If you let your personal perception of reality manifest intrusively all the time, it will inhibit your ability to be challenged by what really is there, you'll be trapped in your own little solipsistic world where you'll keep repeating the same damn words and rationalizations to yourself until you believe them fully, all the while foolishly construing a growing COMPLEX as 'personal growth' and progress. Be brave and realize you know nothing. Be brave and fall headfirst into the unfathomable vortex of existence!

There's something really awesome about realising you've become a better person through experience ^_^

Do not believe her lies. You do not become better through experience. You just go through your path until you die. Do what you have time to do. There's the end death, and there's just entropic slowing down until you do nothing and just rationalize your situation ad nausaum. Do you have to go through two types of death?

Then you will suffer for nothing. You will go directly from the 'wow, I am in a relationship!' to the pain and sadness of when the relationship collpases without having really experienced much fully.

The less you do it, the less it feels natural to do it. When you find yourself rationalizing when you should be living, stop. The control tool is words. Do not voice your rationalizations as often as you do. In lack of blabbering, you'll find more interesting things to do.

This doesn't mean that when there's problems they shouldn't be discussed. It means we shouldn't invent problems where there's none.