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I'm also more interested in what you say and not 'first game to have sex in it' but I think we've compiled a quite large list of games of that type too, yes?

I was with a girlfriend walking along the beach at night a long time ago, and this dude was smoking with his friends farther out and walked up to us to I guess, try to pick us up. He was all 'heeeeeey...' and then I turned and faced him and then he was 'oh, um.'


'do you have a light?' with a lit cigarette in his hand.

That was the last time someone mistook me for a girl as far as I know.

Erenan: funny strip.

Andail: how about we tell the story when we lost our virginities to each other in mittens 2003? It was cold in the cabin...

I think that's just the same artist and it's his style, BB.

Gobliins wasn't innovative for having multiple characters on screen, it was innovative because a large section of the puzlles were timed, you did this with one goblin while you did that with the other goblin.

Conquest of Camelot is based on realistic locations and time-period, but is invented faux-history in the subject at hand. Arthur going to conquer the heathens and find the holy grail? But perhaps I'm wrong.

LSL7 I believ was also the first adventure game where the narrator was joking and ripping on the player character.

I think sierra games started doing that from the first space quest or something. A lot was 'oh poor roger' but I think earlier games made the player-playing-adventure-game breakage quite sooner than LSL7.

Apologies, I haven't. Perhaps others will have not too.

YOU DIE OF SHAME in Police Quest if you go out in a towel, from the showers. THAT'S what I call police work simulation. Of course I agree PQ is more a 'think like a cop' than a 'be a gameplayer' all the way through, just had to say this.

http://home.comcast.net/~ervind/digstuff/digbm1.html

Image size warning for dial-up users.

The Dig has been remarkably different once, though the core design seems to have remained the same. Another character died and resurrected and all that? Strange.

Full of spoilers, so probably more for people who have played and finished The Dig.

Tex Murphy games: in-game discussions where you could dead-end if you didn't treat your responses well enough. A wonderful break from the 'take the dialogue tree from the top' common.

Deja Vu: open-endedness, BREAK EVERY WINDOW, LEAVE EVERY FAUCET RUNNING, PICK UP EVERYTHING, BECOME A HUMAN, LIVE FOREVER. Um.

Azrael's Tear : first 3d adventure game I played where the 3d extremely enhanced the mood.

Bad Mojo: Along with Gobliiins games, mostly situational, physical puzzles, no 'verb list' to talk of. You're a cockroach.

Lure of the Temptress: Roaming NPCs, giving orders 'go there, talk to this man'. Underimplemented and not really fun to play but still, innovative.

Bioforge : Bionic arm pointer, heh! Seriously, underrated clone of...

Alone in the Dark: Beginning of survival horror. Vector main characters on bitmap backounds, the begigging of 'cinematic' camera placement, for good or worse.

Blade Runner: extreme open-endedness.

Neuromancer: 'net hacking in adventure games. Furthured by Bloodnet and Hell.

Dark Seed: 'shadow' world.

Nice thread! I'll contribute when I remember stuff.

KGB for real-time spy-thriller hijinx (could have been done before but hey)

Captain Blood for Alien Space Language

Dreamweb for picking-up-everything. You have to think what will come useful and what not, not just click everywhere.

The desert island sim has been done, to a point, with the Stranded Kids series, from Konami (on the Gameboy Color), the last of which was the excellent Lost in Blue on the Nintendo DS.

The player washes up on a beach and has 90 days in which to survive until rescue arrives. This involves gathering fuel, food, a nice cave, building weapons to hunt, traps, and furniture.

It plays out more or less in semi-realtime, as the players physical, mental, and hunger deteriorates based on how much you try to squeeze into a day. It's linear only in so much as parts of the island only become accessable as you learn new abilities.Other than that it's totally open ended.

Scotch was playing this and he told me it could be a lot better. Haven't tried it myself, but I can surely imagine a good design being marred by various Japanisms in gameplay.

Helm: Yeah, FoA's approach also meant replayability! I've never played quest for glory... is it too late? Will my "modern" mind find it ancient in gameplay? (and does it have C64 graphics or early Amiga graphics or what?)

Sorry, man. Quest for Glory 1 and 2 are in EGA, therefore your eyes will probably explode. I think the games look great, but if you have no tolerance for oldschool, probably not for you. Just play them a bit for game development discussion purposes perhaps.

Quest for Glory, or a Fate of Atlantis, but that's been done already.

Aspects of it have been done, others not enough, others not at all. It's like saying HL2 was just a rehash of HL1, yes it was, but it was done better and more. I think we need more hybrid adventure games with physics, action, rpg elements and challenge. Can never have too many good games. But it's been too few, really!

Helm awoke my interest in philosophy, and I have changed to a more analog person
because of that (thank you).

Oh, cool. If I was a bit of a catalyst for something nice for you, that's great.

years from now? i'm older than you.  i've probably played adventure games before you. not nice assuming why i play adventure games.

Dunno how old you are. I'm 22 and I've played all the well-known graphical adventure games there are, most of the obscure ones, generally besides say, Radiant or a few other people here I don't know anyone else that has suffered through the genre as much as I have.

I played them all early, I learned english with them and for them, they're a big part of my aesthetic and psychological development from a child to young adult. And I remember a time where I was just floored if an adventure game looked good and had nice characters. This doesn't happen anymore.

oh, and i've read everything you posted about game theory. you've never been vaque in pointing out flaws, only when it comes to how to improve them. without the game turning into an island simulation, or rpg, etc. you seem to be heading to mixing of genre's.

Yes. I am no purist. I think storydriven plot and characterization has migrated to other genres, it's only fair for adventure games to take the good bits from other gameplay systems. Challenge in a game, reward for getting better. This is not vague, this is very simple. If you want, don't call this an adventure game. I call it the type of adventure game I'm predominantly interested in.

I have actually played gladiator quest (i don't consider this an adventure game), snail quest 1-3 and crown of gold.  sol still illudes me.  i just don't have a clear picture in my mind what you think a good adventure would be like, and i've read everything you said on the subject.

What can I say man, read again. Don't push your confusion as my flaw. If some people understand me and build on what I've said and there's meaningful dialogue occuring, then I'm probably not being very vague, am I?

almost everytime a game is mentioned in the forums you just state it's bad. again, making me wonder why think you like adventure games. "crytical" is putting it mildly. you don't like clones? but then you say you are looking forward to certain clone ags games. and your excuse? "they do it right"? you attack games like apprentice? which really does it more right than any other "clones".

Since I've been around for a few years more than you on the AGS scene: There was a time when things around here were so bad that even a functional AGS game was cause for celebration. Then after that things got better. Then there was a time when a game that even mildly looked like a LEC game came out, that was a cause of celebration. Then things started to get better... HOPEFULLY in my opinion, then there will be a time when a game comes out that innovates on the genre, it will be celebrated. Apprentice and any other game like that played an important part, there's lots of people that like them, but they are stepping stones in my opinion. After nostalgia, after emulation, there should come challenging innovation. Dislike this mode of thinking?

"love what adventure games show promise  that they could eventually be", again, sounding like you don't really like adventure games, only once they become something else.

Bingo.

as for "character assassination", treat people with respect, and you will be treated with respect. 

Have I ever not treated you with respect, Mordalles? For me to even address a person there must be at least a modicum of respect for them, otherwise I ignore them.

Let's say I didn't treat you respect somewhere down the line, though I don't remember when, I don't remember exactly ever adressing you to be frank, what you say seems to suggest that since I did that, now it's open season for you to be an asshole to me. Is that how your ethics work?

For future reference, if my request carries any weight with you, if you're unable to adress me with respect, I'd rather you didn't adress me at all. You can ignore my request, and that will lead to you talking to thin air, as I will not reply to you.

I am not vague, I've posted lots and lots of times what exactly I find wrong with most puzzling in adventure games, I've agreed with many things other people have said on the subject, so on. Seriously, read 3-4 threads on Game theory and Puzzle discussion on this forum. There's lots that I find right in adventure games too. So on.

I posted right there about games I feel do things right more than wrong in the genre.

I am not strongly offended by what you said before, I dismissed it because it didn't warrant a reply. If you want a discussion, participate with rebuttals and arguments, not character assassination.

I'll let you know this: I've made ags games you've probably never played back in the day, when I was 15-17 years old and I didn't know exactly what I was doing, which suffered by the things I am critizising here TO THE MAX. Derivative, bad-puzzle gameplay, 'what am I doing?' motivation, click-everywhere inane pixelhunts, make-it-up-as-you-go-along storylines, padding filler puzzles,  you name it. I am not just shooting the shit idly here. I am condemning my own old stuff as much as anything else. I am not 16 anymore, time is limited, I've looked at adventure games with a critical eye and I am constantly in discussion with like-minded and/or open-minded people about them. You'll realize what I'm talking about probably years from now when the novelty of 'it's graphical! and it's an adventure!' wears off for you too. This doesn't mean I hate adventure games and I'm waiting for you to hate them too so we can join in awesome misery loves company condemnation of all that we used to enjoy as kids. This means I love what adventure games show promise that they could eventually be.

sociopath?! I have a cat!

You clearly have an idea of how an adventure game SHOULD be, so why not make it yourself? This is the place to do it. CJ even provides the tool for free! You couldn't ask for a better setup.

Because a) I can't code the type of stuff I think makes for good adventure games and therefore depend on other people to help me when I try to do something of the type, like at OROW time b) even then, making a good game -as I see it- is difficult business, and I don't have the time to devote to that, others do but I've chosen to be something else in my life than adventure game designer, and I've went ahead and did it (comics) and still I make games from time to time and c) because even in the lack of action, discussion is very useful because it might make people who do have the time and resources to put into making a game think it over. Do they really want to make another adventure game clone? This is why this forum is good see? We discuss game theory. Not every person who partakes in a discussion about game theory has to go out and make games for other people to take them seriously.

That for the OMG MAKE IT BETTER YOURSELF (tm) argument.


I strongly echo Ghormak's 'getting better at a game' sentiment. You don't get awesome at adventure games. When you finish the story book you don't win it. You just close it and get on with your business. I think adventure games would stand to gain a lot from gameplay devices where you can win, lose, and various shades in between. Not just game-stuckage when you can't solve a puzzle. In an rpg you might have to kill 100 orcs to get to some place, and it might be a daunting task, but hey you killed the first. You're on your way. In adventure games, there's no feedback most of the time. The game doesn't tell you if you're getting closer, if you're sort of making it, if you're on the right track. How often do you go back to an older npc conversation and replay it just so you're sure you understood the hint right and therefore know what  you're doing? Seriously, modern adventure games are broken all kinds of ways and you're telling me discussion over these issues leads to nothing?

not really. i'd rather hear the do it yourself argument than listening to one guy's constant whining about how bad every game is i've ever heard of. either move on to something else, or do something about it.  Grin  Wink

Whatever, Mordalles.


Manicmatt: KGB is full of faults, but it doesn't suffer from 'adventure-game-stupid' at least. FoA for me was the most successful application of the 'oldschool' model, and not to a small part because of the globetrotting atmosphere and the three paths to suit different needs. FT was a better movie than a game, but good movie it was. I find little to no faults in Quest for Glory 1 and 2 for they do these things I say above right: they have skill-based stuff to do, you can become better, the words 'I rocked quest for glory 1' actually mean something (a character that has perfect stats, all items, did all quests right (YES, you can do quests in suboptimal ways!) and gave flowers to the centaur girl) there's optional parts, all that stuff.

you should take advice off of the internet

Genesis are hit and miss, and excretable in my opinion after Gabriel left.

It's not like we do it to annoy you. There's a reason it's a recurring subject.