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People find it difficult to leave behind one of the few things they're relatively ok at.

Hurray for you, Layabout. Don't tell her your online nick is Layabout. Break the chef's legs.

I can't talk to you.

I disagree. I think you're throwing up a block here to stop yourself from the possibility that you might get hurt. I say this because you don't know if it will or will never be. Hell, it might turn out to be something great if only you DID invest emotional energy into it. No one knows. You might as well take a chance.

If things fall apart before they even start because people are shielding themselves from being hurt to a degree, then the timing wasn't right. Timing is important too. You can't just sidestep people's lives because I LOEV YOU LOL, it takes the maturity to know that even when things could work out to a good effect, sometimes you must not press the issue because of the timing. So this I LIVE MY LIFE ONE DAY AT A TIME I NEVER MISS CHANCES might be your thing, and great, but it's tyrannical to make other people live by it just because they at the moment like kissing you. Besides the obligation to yourself to be 'true' there's an obligation to the other person to treat them like another person, with different outlooks to life and desires and plans.

of all people

what are we, of all people?

I WAS BORN IN A CEMETARY, UNDER THE SIGN OF THE MOOOOON

Well let's see

A: useless Floppy Drive,
B: nonexistant
C: system HD
D: Dvd-RW
E: Dvd-R
F: Demon Tools Image DVD
G: Music HD
H: Backup HD
I: External Storage HD

Also, the parser system isn't very intuitive so if you can deal with no graphics, go with Inform 6 or 7

Eric's edit as far as comic tone goes is pretty much spot-on, all I can add is MORE SHINYNESS which is a personal thing, a lot of people don't like it. And grain.

Below is neck and face edit. Probably a bit too much, got carried away because I like playing with your art. I don't know if it's useful, if it's too much, I apologize in advance. I tried to maintain that she's not specifically attractive, and to work with the limited tones provided. The points to gather are the following:

*Another level of rendering/refining could possibly be needed. That which seperates good blocked art to finalized rendering. Go in with smaller brushes, even in photoshop like I did if you're afraid to mess up the real inks, and make those bits and finishings that make a good design into a great one.

*With tone, as with ink, don't be afraid to fade out by scribbling. This creates the illusion of intermediate shades between the tone shade and the whitespace. You don't need extra colors to do this. One could theoretically make a very volumetrically sound design using only 4 shades spanning the entire BLACK-WHITE spectrum, like a gameboy for example, if they get the hang of creative crosshatching and scribbling the intermediate shades.

*This isn't fine art. It is however, illustration work. I wouldn't put the same amount of detail as I did to the face, all over. Just where you want the eye to be drawn and for the ease of reading of expression and the like. If she were also holding a gun, I'd render the gun likewise, but not every fold of her clothing for example.

*When you have tones which represent well, don't be afraid to add another layer on multiply, pure black at about 25% opacity, block out some more shadow over large areas, and then refine with the eraser. I did this on the left side of the face to differentiate and push out those highlights I rubbed out more. This is a great way to keep the neatness of working with few shades (gameboy, as we said above) but also make your life easier with additive shading.


*grain. If you like 'dirty' effects in your work (I think pieces like this call for it) you could, when you've finalized your work, run a noise filter over it (remember to back up your clean layered art before) and experiement with the settings until you feel there's no information loss and the gritty effect helps the piece. This is uniform noise, not much.

Anatomy: neck was too long, and the head not connecting properly to it, changed lips, pulled eyes together.

Basically, anyone asking for graphics, especially 20 backgrounds or something can give up before they even post. I don't think the 'Make my graphics' approach has worked, ever... Feel free to correct me though. It's not too difficult to find someone to code parts of your game, or to do some spare music for it. But design/graphics, people should learn to depend on themselves, not because I like seeing bad-looking or bad-designed games, but because everyone around with artistic talent desires to make their own game, or are working with their friends to make their own game.

The CL, and the scripting help sections of the board are far more useful than any recruit service will ever be. Helping people fix their own stuff, not make it for them.

if I were a girl (oh, I can only dream) and you refered to making out as snogging, I'd go hang with a 60 year old drug addict instead, too.

I don't understand what she's doing in that old man's house. I guess you don't either. I don't see a big problem having yet occured but it's too early to tell. A good sign when things might go well is when people try to make time out of their schedules and obligations to see each other. A lot. This sounds stupid, but it's a vital thing that a lot of people miss: if it's a new almost-relationship, and you're not in each other's faces constantly, this usually will mean either that one of the two isn't too hot about the whole thing, or that one of the two has reservations that reside on other stuff that you're not allowed to touch upon unless asked to. You see a wonderful girl and she seems to like you and you'd like to have a chance with her, please remember to keep a cool head because things can go from fine to DROWNING in seconds when things are just starting up. Don't invest too much on this level.

Don't 'talk about your situation' either. It's a dumb thing to do when all you've done is kissed a bit. Make your desire plain to her, simply and politely, if you haven't yet, but that's it. Don't demand things, don't put pressure on her. And break the chef's legs.

An enduring favourite is Gateway II. Well, Gateway is good as well, but II has a special charm for me. If you haven't played, please do.

Yes, aware.

use sun tan lotion (rather than e.g. "apply sun tan lotion to me")

whereas I agree with leaving use in there for that for example, and generally not carpet-blocking 'use' for an IF engine, I can think of a lot of obfuscated uses for sun tan lotion in an adventure game, so that goes for something as far as 'obvious' uses goes. Obvious in real life sure, but adventure games are not real life. The game design has to gentle suggest the themes of the game and the appropriate commands to be used. In real life I don't 'examine bed' either, nor do I go 'north' but it's an IF convention for a reason.  It encourages and reenforces some things (inventive and specific usages of things) and it discourages some others (pointless-clickery-type USE MY MOM ON DOOR LOL). Exceptions exist where an application of something can IFingly be covered by the generic USE, but exceptions don't make a strong case.

whereas I use with using use in there for that for example, and generally not carpet-using 'use' for an IF engine, I can use of a lot of obfuscated uses for sun tan lotion in an adventure game, so that uses for something as far as 'obvious' uses goes. Obvious in real life sure, but adventure games are not real life. The game design has to gentle use the themes of the game and the appropriate commands to be used. In real life I don't 'use bed' either, nor do I use 'north' but it's an IF convention for a reason.  It uses and uses some things (inventive and specific usages of things) and it uses some others (pointless-clickery-type USE MY MOM ON DOOR LOL). Exceptions use where an application of something can IFingly be use by the generic USE, but exceptions don't use a strong case. YUS.

I hope for an Australian victory over Japan tomorrow so I can beat the missus by proxy.

If you were a real man you'd go at it directly.

I didn't say they're not funny. I said I didn't enjoy them as games.

Thanks for taking the time to listen.

no prob, I'm sure you'd listen to my stuff too if I posted them.

Uh.. who?

Forget it, you don't want to listen to Whitehouse, seriously. It was just in the way of saying there's a lot of treble and not much else in your mix, and distorted vocals.

About NIN: I've listened to a lot of music in many genres, and yes, I think your music sounds remarkably like an immitation of them. I can't even believe that you haven't listened to NIN religiously. But I mean like, having a copy of Fragile over your bed and stuff. It's just a very recognisable way of playing this pop electronic music and it sounds very similar, just amateur.

Really? They are? I couldn't tell. But then Trent Reznor has a thing called a producer who tells him this stuff.

As you say below, no. If you can't tell your vocals are out of tune, do ear training. A lot of it. They are. If you can't tell yourself, you cannot trust yourself to tell if two intervals at the same time sound like a major or a minor coupling, and this is BAD. You will no be able to write anything but single-part melodies unless your ears can tell what intervals are playing together at one time. I'm not saying perfect pitch, just being able to spot if they're at least on the tempered scale (ON the piano keys, not BETWEEN them)

Well then you'd find ME unconvincing!

I'm sorry to say, but if the lyrics express your sentiments, I'd probably do. THIS DOESN'T MEAN YOU ARE A FAKE. It just means you haven't yet achieved the ability to convey what you feel emotionally to ME and only ME. Other people might find it wonderful.

yes it is. And has spoiled what was a good day. But I wouldn't want you bullshitting me anyway.

I'm sorry. I didn't mean to. I think you'd benefit from what I really think rather than my silence, or lies. I agree hearing harsh critique about stuff you love doing is really a blow. But what can I do?

Nah I own Pitchshifter's "infotainment?" album, I know what industrial is.

well.. pitchshifter are not industrial.

Strange that two cartoonist, no less, think so logically and common to dismiss a puzzle based on it's randomness.

I can't speak for eric, but I never enojyed 'random funny' adventure games like Monkey Island or Day of the Tentacle, be me a cartoonist or not. I'm sure they have their place and a lot of people continuously say how Monkey Island 2 for example is their favourite game, but I do not see their appeal, and I am not interested in playing them any more. Games that are funny that also have great gameplay is something I haven't witnessed a lot of times in my life, and they were certainly not adventure games. Especially games that break the fourth wall and go 'lol I am an adventure game' just make me gringe. Calahan's Crosstime Saloon is a good example of an amazingly funny piece of entertainment that simply... should have been either a book or a movie. The interaction within it doesn't add to it at all, in my opinion.

Does that make sense, or is it all tosh?

Yes, yes you are. And thank you for your post, and I echo eric's final position. This thread has been helpful.

Hello ManicMatt, I listed to your music. It's not my type of thing so maybe my point of view isn't very useful to you. This reminds me of NIN, only more amateurly done, and I don't really like NIN to begin with so again, maybe my opinion on this one is worthless.

Manipulator suffers from disjointed shifts, a wondering melody that doesn't arrive at some sort of point, and in my opinion, bad lyrics. The vocal attempt is overdone and not rhythmically sound, and that drove me to almost give up, but I endured.

And yes, Same Skin is better, as far as rhythm and drive goes, the lyrics again, I find derivative and badly written. Lots of distortion on an empty production job just makes me think of a less ear-shattering Whitehouse without any of the class, and Whitehouse aren't all about class, so you know...

There is always Hope, well I guess you really really like NIN, don't you? But you see, whereas I don't mind an artist bearing superficial similarities with another (as you do), when there's nothing more to it than this similarity it gets kind of awkward. Chorus annoys, and not in the 'GOD THIS IS SO INTENS' type of good annoy, but in the 'these vocals are overmixed and out of tune' way. Especially by the second time the chorus comes in am really contemplating stopping listening. But I endure.

Warmth: You need to learn to use small reverbs to make sterile pad washes feel more natural. Extremely out of tune singing and annoying OONTZ OONTZ kick drum. For the life of me I can't figure out how this could be convinicing! I guess if it was very professionably done it would be aurally tolerable, but still awful in WHAT IT SAYS. It would say exactly what NIN say, and I personally find their lyrics unconvincing on all levels too. Some extra vocals are overmixed again.

You've mimicked the stylistics of other more successful arists here, and the mimicking isn't something to write home about, in my opinion. When -and I'm sure this will happen if you continue making music- your mimicking of the stylistics is stronger, then you should discover the difference between stylistics and aesthetics. Your music right now is coherent only in that it is consistently bad, whereas you should strive to instill within it the honesty that real people have, no manufactured so called 'industrial' superstars, and a clarity of vision that comes from THE RISK, the desire to communicate this honesty. Right now it sounds like - because for all I know these lyrics are amazingly real to you, how knows?- like formulaic aping of a bad formula to begin with.

Sorry if this is harsh. And sorry if I don't have much good to say about the music to counteract the bad, but I cannot find the good, in this case, besides base 'it's good that you're making something of your time' bullshit that would only insult your intelligence. In fact, I think you should, if you desire to make a professional effort of this, either reconsider the foundations of your approach, or give up altogether.

I suggest you listen to Einsturzende Neubauten and Coil and NON and Throbbing Gristle before you so happily call what you've made any sort of 'industrial' music. If you can't be bothered to find any choice tracks, I'll be happy to upload for you.